Redevelopment Closer Than Ever?

[GrangeParkCobbler]

Despite various protestations it appears that there are no plans to redevelop the ground and despite a large windfall of unbudgeted revenue circa 700k none of it was invested in permanent signings to help with a promotion push.

I can't believe that nobody has really made a big thing about this......or do they really all believe that we'll go on a spending spree with the cash in the summer? I don't remember one news article from the Club saying about the £250000 for being the League 2 team who made it furthest. Are they hoping it gets "forgotten"

Not surprised though....when your balance sheet is showing a negative £5.5m, every little helps. That seems to be a stance that most Cobblers fans are happy with. I mean, what are Swindon like? Fancy paying out cash to buy the player who had almost single-handedly got you to the top of the league with 20+ goals whilst on loan? Anyone would think they wanted to go up! 

[guest49]

I always find it strange when fans get excited about the windfalls from a cup run with a club like ours. I was beginning to think some were on 10%.
It goes towards 'running costs' and 'undisclosed', although we haven't seen our friend 'undisclosed' for a while.

All they (Cardoza, the council, Thomas) had to do was build a stand. Some had the money, others said they would but then under promised and delivered just that.
It'll all end in tears with the current lot, so we've just got to hope our next caretakers are in it for the love of the club.

[super-si]

There is very little value in the East Stand skeleton steel structure as it stands. In reality, the current owners have spent money on the football club but have not lost any money in that useless structure. I don’t see that it can be used to create anything that will give any return on the investment required to complete it as a building! The stand was compromised to get as much housing as possible behind it. Take down the steelwork and get what you can for it as scrap!

An hotel at the back of the East Stand will give structure that can be incorporated to create a decent stadium canopy. This will give you more seating and hospitality in association with the hotel.

The hotel, industrial and retail developments would be under the lease owned by a company (CDNL) that the football club has a 75% shareholding in. That will give a source of revenue into the future.

The Council may be reluctant to see the stand completed until such time as more substantive progress has been made in court to retrieve the money or see the guilty parties brought to book. There are plenty of people in the borough and surrounding area who would criticise if the football club ended up with the intended use before The Council had recouped some money or justice.

I think it is going to take a bit longer to get a four sided stadium.

[guest3264]

The part I now struggle with, since CDNL was "moved" to the football club, is that it now looks like the Football Club wants to build a hotel, and the football club wants to build some logistics units.

I doubt "The Football Club" wants to do either of these things.

It does show though, not that we didn't already know it, is that any redevelopment of the ground, or any other progress off the pitch connected to the football club is dependant on something happening with the land.  However, how much of any of the benefit financially sees its way to the football club is anyone's guess.

Even if the land is sold off, even if a hotel is put there, or units are put there, there is no guarantee of anything happening to the stand. I guess this is where the 50/50 Club/Council benefit comes in. Land sold for £10m, council gets £5m, Football Club gets £5m and pays down the debts attached to NT Ventures and BD-J leaving just enough left to fix the hand dryer in the gents toilet.  

If I am reading the Council comments correct, is their stance the East Stand must be completed BEFORE any land development?....NOT as you commented.

[GrangeParkCobbler]

I always find it strange when fans get excited about the windfalls from a cup run with a club like ours. I was beginning to think some were on 10%.
It goes towards 'running costs' and 'undisclosed', although we haven't seen our friend 'undisclosed' for a while.

All they (Cardoza, the council, Thomas) had to do was build a stand. Some had the money, others said they would but then under promised and delivered just that.
It'll all end in tears with the current lot, so we've just got to hope our next caretakers are in it for the love of the club.

To put it into perspective though....when a business with a £4m turnover gets a further £700k on top unbudgeted that is a fair chunk. Its a 17.5% boost. For clubs like ours that's a huge boost! Why shouldn't we get excited?

Yes I agree though, it will go towards running costs.....but doesn't that show how badly things are being run?  I believe Kelvin himself said in one of his latest interviews that the money would go someway to reducing the losses we faced this season. Perhaps we should be run in a way where we aren't incurring those types of losses in the first place then.

[Terryfenwickatemyhamster]

The Trust state:

"The only proposal brought forward during the last 18 months, in relation to the land surrounding Sixfields stadium, was in July to September last year and that was an outline proposal for a 120-room hotel with conference facilities, which was to be built on the old athletics track behind the east stand".

What was this one then?

"In late October, and unconnected with the hotel proposal, NTFC made a proposition to NBC concerning the development land".

[BackOfTheNet]

The Trust state:

"The only proposal brought forward during the last 18 months, in relation to the land surrounding Sixfields stadium, was in July to September last year and that was an outline proposal for a 120-room hotel with conference facilities, which was to be built on the old athletics track behind the east stand".

What was this one then?

"In late October, and unconnected with the hotel proposal, NTFC made a proposition to NBC concerning the development land".

I'd assumed it would be the one KT mentioned about a 50/50 profit share on any enabling development, but I could be wrong.

[Deepcut Cobbler]

I'd assumed it would be the one KT mentioned about a 50/50 profit share on any enabling development, but I could be wrong.

I think that Terry was highlighting the contradiction in the two statements?

[guest49]

To put it into perspective though....when a business with a £4m turnover gets a further £700k on top unbudgeted that is a fair chunk. Its a 17.5% boost. For clubs like ours that's a huge boost! Why shouldn't we get excited?

Yes I agree though, it will go towards running costs.....but doesn't that show how badly things are being run?  I believe Kelvin himself said in one of his latest interviews that the money would go someway to reducing the losses we faced this season. Perhaps we should be run in a way where we aren't incurring those types of losses in the first place then.

Grange, I think you've highlighted the reasons why we could get excited but shouldn't get excited. 

[guest3338]

The Council may be reluctant to see the stand completed until such time as more substantive progress has been made in court to retrieve the money or see the guilty parties brought to book. There are plenty of people in the borough and surrounding area who would criticise if the football club ended up with the intended use before The Council had recouped some money or justice.

I think it is going to take a bit longer to get a four sided stadium.

An interesting angle that I've not seen raised on these pages before.

[Manwork04]

The Trust state:

"The only proposal brought forward during the last 18 months, in relation to the land surrounding Sixfields stadium, was in July to September last year and that was an outline proposal for a 120-room hotel with conference facilities, which was to be built on the old athletics track behind the east stand".

What was this one then?

"In late October, and unconnected with the hotel proposal, NTFC made a proposition to NBC concerning the development land".

This was the 50/50 split of the land deal.

[Gomez]

How long until the next KT statement?... We're making good progress/we've had very positive discussions with the Council/yada yada yada

[GrangeParkCobbler]

Grange, I think you've highlighted the reasons why we could get excited but shouldn't get excited. 

Agreed! 

[GrangeParkCobbler]

If I am reading the Council comments correct, is there stance the East Stand must be completed BEFORE any land development?....NOT as you commented.

That's what the Council have stated all along, however I wonder with the fact that the leases are now in effect controlled by the club, whether the carrot is being dangled enough to get them to change that stance in the belief that the "Club" will benefit from the sale as soon as the land is sold rather than a standalone dormant development company. When both are owned by the same people it hardly makes a difference in my eyes.

Of course the issue then is that if the Council allow the land to be sold off, and the proceeds split on a 50/50 basis, where is the guarantee that the stand will be finished? That money could go to pay off the debts, the Chairman could give it to the manager to have a massive spurge in the next transfer window.

The Council should hold out until the stand is finished.....after all, they own the ground, they own that stand, and believe it or not, its their asset that I guess they would like to see improved. I doubt very much whether they care if there's a hotel, warehouse or musical merry go round on the land next door.......they want to see the stand done, they want some of their lost money back, and anything else would be a bonus.

[guest3264]

That's what the Council have stated all along, however I wonder with the fact that the leases are now in effect controlled by the club, whether the carrot is being dangled enough to get them to change that stance in the belief that the "Club" will benefit from the sale as soon as the land is sold rather than a standalone dormant development company. When both are owned by the same people it hardly makes a difference in my eyes.

Of course the issue then is that if the Council allow the land to be sold off, and the proceeds split on a 50/50 basis, where is the guarantee that the stand will be finished? That money could go to pay off the debts, the Chairman could give it to the manager to have a massive spurge in the next transfer window.

The Council should hold out until the stand is finished.....after all, they own the ground, they own that stand, and believe it or not, its their asset that I guess they would like to see improved. I doubt very much whether they care if there's a hotel, warehouse or musical merry go round on the land next door.......they want to see the stand done, they want some of their lost money back, and anything else would be a bonus.

Like you it is my hope that NBC stand firm, for once, so we can have the East Stand completed with Executive Boxes and Conference facilities.

Only then should the land deal be allowed to progress so the local electorate have some of the outstanding money repaid,  the club's debts are reduced, KT makes some profit and even some cash is invested in the team!

Now the stupid wish........ALL the aspects agreed and started by the end of the year! (Ok I'll go for a rest!).

[guest3338]

That's what the Council have stated all along, however I wonder with the fact that the leases are now in effect controlled by the club, whether the carrot is being dangled enough to get them to change that stance in the belief that the "Club" will benefit from the sale as soon as the land is sold rather than a standalone dormant development company. When both are owned by the same people it hardly makes a difference in my eyes.

Of course the issue then is that if the Council allow the land to be sold off, and the proceeds split on a 50/50 basis, where is the guarantee that the stand will be finished? That money could go to pay off the debts, the Chairman could give it to the manager to have a massive spurge in the next transfer window.

The Council should hold out until the stand is finished.....after all, they own the ground, they own that stand, and believe it or not, its their asset that I guess they would like to see improved. I doubt very much whether they care if there's a hotel, warehouse or musical merry go round on the land next door.......they want to see the stand done, they want some of their lost money back, and anything else would be a bonus.

Where has this 50/50 split on profits with the council come from GPC? I don't recall it being there in the process until quite recently?

[GrangeParkCobbler]

Where has this 50/50 split on profits with the council come from GPC? I don't recall it being there in the process until quite recently?

Yes, it was recently that I heard about it via a message from someone, also KT alluded to a proposal made to the Council (or rather two proposals, one of which was rejected and the other still under consideration) in his last update.

From the update following the Supporters Advisory Panel last month.... "The current situation is that the club have made a couple of proposals to the council that allow the East Stand to be finished and for the Council to recover some money by sharing enabling development proceeds from the land. "

I believe he went into greater deal in one of the youtube videos.


Of course though, that's changed from the Q & A Update in October last year where KT said
"However, now as time has moved on and we are legally able to do this, we have completed the paperwork so CDNL is owned by the Football Club and there can be no misunderstanding that any proceeds from any land around the ground would only be used to benefit the Football Club."

So we've gone from proceeds from the land only benefiting the football club, to proceeds from the land benefiting the Football Club and the Council.

[super-si]

According to Companies House, NTFC has a 75% share...

[singcobb]

If I am reading the Council comments correct, is their stance the East Stand must be completed BEFORE any land development?....NOT as you commented.

The problem with this is that it is not a valid reason for denying planning permission and it would be easily overturned on appeal.

[guest3338]

According to Companies House, NTFC has a 75% share...

According to Companies House, NTFC has a 75% share...

According to Companies House, NTFC has a 75% share...

Of CDNL? So who holds the remaining 25%