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Redevelopment Closer Than Ever?

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Author Topic: Redevelopment Closer Than Ever?  (Read 1062462 times)
woody84
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« Reply #27060 on: July 29, 2020, 14:36:46 pm »

As a matter of interest I listened to KT’s response to Gareth’s question. Fairly obvious that the chairman disagrees with some of the recent Trust statement. It’s not very reassuring that the word ‘disingenuous’ is mentioned. Also the highly anticipated 31st July Date appears to be a wet blanket when a date in Sept/Oct is now mentioned!
Very interesting interview, not just what he said but the tone in which he said it. First time I've seen him show that level.

He raised an interesting question, and one I thought as well when reading the statement, which is Why isnt the deal in the interest of the club?
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Melbourne Cobbler
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« Reply #27061 on: July 29, 2020, 14:51:38 pm »

As we seem to be progressing to the sharp end of proceedings many have probably been giving some thought to how this has played out, especially in light of recent developments and the recent statement from KT?

Despite the comments of councillor Hadland, it is fairly clear that there probably was no real commitment to finish the east stand despite the use of the word? What probably happened was that when the offer was made for the club, the council requested an assurance that the East Stand would be finished? At that point I think any reasonable person would have had to have stated that this would be conditional on the performance of the club post purchase? I think what probably was in the thoughts of the owners was that they were buying a club that was about to be promoted, under the guidance of a manager they knew and had confidence in? If the club continued to progress in division 1 under Chris Wilder and the gates continued to swell, demand for tickets would eventually regularly outstrip supply and development of the stand would become almost a necessity in terms of the growth of the club? That was probably what was anticipated or at the very least hoped for by the owners, subject of course to the unpredictability of football? It is my belief that was almost certainly the position of the owners at that time, who reasonably believed that if events did indeed unfold as anticipated they had every intention of developing the stand? However, there was absolutely no way that either they or any other reasonably minded investor would have legally committed themselves to that, as it was conditional on circumstance and frankly rightly so? As I said previously a legally binding unconditional commitment to finish the stand would have slapped a valuation of millions onto the club at that time and comes at what I believe was an unacceptable and ridiculous risk? Councillor Hadlands statement that there was a commitment and even KT’s admission on this is frankly nonsense, because it begs the question why it wasn’t drafted into a legally binding document? It wasn’t because it was probably a statement of intent, subject to conditional circumstances being fulfilled? The council probably accepted this as their options were limited and then as we all know events unfolded rather differently to those that were anticipated by everyone, including the owners? They have subsequently spent millions trying to get a performance out of the club on the pitch and we arrive at the present day? So, the question is what is the way forward? The stand needs to be finished but nothing will be achieved if the owners are given an ultimatum of ‘finish the stand and then there will be progress on the land deal”. When placed in that position there is absolutely no way that any reasonably minded business person is going to adhere to that, I wouldn’t and they won’t. Frankly why should they, this belief that they were asked to finish the stand and they gave an unconditional commitment to do so didn’t happen, I promise you. Think about it, to reiterate NTFC would have been valued at millions as a result, and the council’s legal representatives would have had that commitment drafted into a contract for consideration within about half an hour and there was no such contract was there? In any event how could anyone reasonably establish what the cost was to complete the stand and to what extent? Is the suggestion that all that expenditure was ascertained in the days before the club went under and was pulled back from the brink?  Is the assumption the current owners committed to spending an indeterminate number of millions to complete the stand as a condition of buying the club irrespective of what subsequently happened post purchase, all on a second division club hours from going t1ts up? Anyone who thinks that is a reasonable assessment of what transpired has to be on class A drugs? Logic and a dispassionate evaluation of events tells you what almost certainly happened and I’d bet my house that my version isn’t too far off the truth?

As unpalatable as some may find it, the way forward simply has to be to draw a line under what happened previously and progress matters from here with a clean slate otherwise the stand will almost certainly never get finished, and the state of limbo will continue indefinitely? Or is it the hope that we kick the current owners out and a white knight with cash on the hip will come galloping in to save the day, give me an effing break? Make a deal on the land that is mutually acceptable and beneficial to all parties and forget this childish mantra of ‘but you promised” because it almost certainly never happened? Although the owners may have expressed every intention of doing so if circumstances allowed and meant it, they would have been out of their minds to unconditionally commit to it? If I’m wrong perhaps it’s about time the council released the evidence to support this claim of a commitment, even if it’s not in a legally binding document? An email, a letter, a text anything, but I don’t think they have a shred of proof that there was an unconditional commitment, and a conditional commitment is not a commitment at all is it? However, whilst a line should be drawn as the trust have said one of the conditions has to be that the deal is open to public scrutiny? Uncomfortable and unusual maybe, but there is absolutely nothing to fear if any deal really is mutually acceptable? Also, the deal and project should be evaluated, audited and monitored by suitably qualified individuals and/or organisations who can subsequently be held accountable to ensure the people of Northampton’s interests are being fully represented and protected. They are owed that at the very least. It is no secret on here that I have been a supporter of the current owners and wholeheartedly believe that they have done all that could be reasonably expected of them in their position, if not more? I think they are decent and genuine people who would like their legacy to be one that shows they always acted in the best interests of the club, and despite the critics on here I will always be grateful to them, as will the majority of others despite what some would have you believe? Where I would disagree with Mr Thomas though is in regards to his comment that any deal has nothing to do with what went on previously, I think this is somewhat naive? With respect the supporters of the club and the people of Northampton generally are the pulse and life blood of the club, and they have rather obviously been severely burned by the activities of the owners of the club in the past? Therefore, I believe that any deal has everything to do with what occurred previously and the people of the town have every right to demand transparency and ultimately confidence regarding any deals involving the football club given what has transpired in the past? Whilst this has nothing to do with Kelvin Thomas, it has everything to do with the football club, its supporters and the people of Northampton and I think Mr Thomas would be best placed to perhaps give consideration to this suggestion moving forward, and I feel it would be disingenuous to do otherwise to use the current popular term?
« Last Edit: July 29, 2020, 14:54:11 pm by Melbourne Cobbler » Report Spam   Logged

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« Reply #27062 on: July 29, 2020, 15:39:33 pm »

I agree with pretty much all of that Melbourne.
I dont think (or at least hope) KT is naive or foolish enough not to understand that there will be a lot more focus on any deal, whether it be based on fact or emotion. My take on that was a frustration that some of the challenge has been on him personally and that he is being judged based on a previous owner in that anything short of full transparency must mean he's being underhand or trying to line his own pockets and not in the interest of the club.

But as above the July date is out, and the next date is the September cabinet meeting. The saga continues
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GrangeParkCobbler
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« Reply #27063 on: July 29, 2020, 16:26:58 pm »

There was no legal commitment to finish the stand but we did make a commitment to finish the stand.......ok, that makes sense!

The "deal" does not see us paying out for the building of the stand and then getting that money back off the council....... in that case why did the Council put a £3m maximum on the building of the stand? They (the Council) have basically said the Club can't build a super stand costing £10m for example? Why is this? Because its been interpreted (rightly or wrongly) that the Council will ultimately pay for that....it is their asset thats being improved after all.

We've got the funds to do the stand......if so why hasn't it been done for 5 years?

If the Council own the land and CDNL (NTFC) lease the land, why the need for NTFC to purchase the land from the Council in the first place? Why don't the Council employ developers and get their cut that way, and then improve their asset themselves?

If there is no condition that the stand is completed before the land can be developed, then CDNL/NTFC could sell the land, use £6/7m to pay themselves back, and then sell the club debt free....but still completed stand free!

Can't help thinking that was 23 minutes of waffle from KT with no new news whatsoever.

As for the Club/Trust spat.....some of what he says is probably true (fan ownership for example) but to suggest that they have interpreted a FOI request wrongly and put out a statement which suits their agenda is a bit worrying.
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Wanderingteyn
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« Reply #27064 on: July 29, 2020, 16:48:48 pm »

Maybe the clubs owners could share a photo proving the funds are in place?

PHOTOSHOPPED I hear some corners shout.
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« Reply #27065 on: July 29, 2020, 17:06:24 pm »

That is a well balanced post Melbourne. The previous attempt to develope the ground was allegedly subject to criminal manouevres. Everyone has to be very careful to ensure that as and when the East Stand is completed, both the club and the council must be seen to be beyond reproach - both for the supporters and the citizens of Northampton. Investment in completion of the stand can only happen when it is financially viable for the club to do so and when the economic conditions are right. I think it is right that was expected to be the case post 15/16 promotion - but the wheels started falling off the wagon - Wilder left, the football struggled and 5USport fell by the wayside, before relegation back to L2.
The current East Stand skeleton is a poor starting point for redevelopment. I have faith in KT that he does have the best interests of the club in mind - he and DB have invested in this club to get where we are today. Building projects are complex and you have to have all your ducks lined up before you start - especially if history dictates that everyone is looking over your shoulder. Whatever results from that pigs ear ain't going to win any prizes.
This is a lower league footbal club - not a casino to **** in! If this work had been started whilst we were in L2 last season, we would probably be in the poop now.
The Supporters Trust should be acting as a critical friend, but I'm not sure it is coming across that way!
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« Reply #27066 on: July 29, 2020, 18:07:00 pm »

8 years this thread has been going, only a couple of months until the issue is sorted... right?
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CJ
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« Reply #27067 on: July 29, 2020, 18:13:36 pm »

There was no legal commitment to finish the stand but we did make a commitment to finish the stand.......ok, that makes sense!

The "deal" does not see us paying out for the building of the stand and then getting that money back off the council....... in that case why did the Council put a £3m maximum on the building of the stand? They (the Council) have basically said the Club can't build a super stand costing £10m for example? Why is this? Because its been interpreted (rightly or wrongly) that the Council will ultimately pay for that....it is their asset thats being improved after all.

We've got the funds to do the stand......if so why hasn't it been done for 5 years?

If the Council own the land and CDNL (NTFC) lease the land, why the need for NTFC to purchase the land from the Council in the first place? Why don't the Council employ developers and get their cut that way, and then improve their asset themselves?

If there is no condition that the stand is completed before the land can be developed, then CDNL/NTFC could sell the land, use £6/7m to pay themselves back, and then sell the club debt free....but still completed stand free!

Can't help thinking that was 23 minutes of waffle from KT with no new news whatsoever.

As for the Club/Trust spat.....some of what he says is probably true (fan ownership for example) but to suggest that they have interpreted a FOI request wrongly and put out a statement which suits their agenda is a bit worrying.
Agreed. It was indeed 23 minutes of waffle from KT which could meaningfully have been said in 60 seconds. What I find most bizarre is not his dissatisfaction with the Trust but the levels that ther recent release seems to have irked him. He who protests most?
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« Reply #27068 on: July 29, 2020, 18:25:19 pm »

KT with NBC can complete a deal which gets the East Stand built.

The Trust (which I am a life member) can give an opinion BUT do nothing tangible for the redevelopment of the ground!



Over to NBC and KT (for 9th September Cabinet meeting).
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Wanderingteyn
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« Reply #27069 on: July 29, 2020, 18:40:48 pm »

Agreed. It was indeed 23 minutes of waffle from KT which could meaningfully have been said in 60 seconds. What I find most bizarre is not his dissatisfaction with the Trust but the levels that ther recent release seems to have irked him. He who protests most?


Someone keeps poking you, you're gonna poke back at some point.

The Trust barely even speak for themselves?

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« Reply #27070 on: July 29, 2020, 19:53:54 pm »

Just listened to the KT tirade re the East Stand. There really is a lot of hot air and it ain't coming from a dyson. He seems rattled. I cannot see this ending well.
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« Reply #27071 on: July 29, 2020, 20:19:24 pm »

I've always liked KT and I can't wait for everything to come out in open regarding deals, as he says he not gonna make everything open to public neither will council ,wouldn't be good for business would it,but agree with previous post he seems a bit pissed off
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« Reply #27072 on: July 29, 2020, 22:08:32 pm »

Toe curling BS from yours truly, up there with Prince Andrew.
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« Reply #27073 on: July 30, 2020, 07:50:05 am »

I've always liked KT and I can't wait for everything to come out in open regarding deals, as he says he not gonna make everything open to public neither will council ,wouldn't be good for business would it,




I'd rather they did make everything open to the public after last time.
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« Reply #27074 on: July 30, 2020, 09:21:57 am »

The trust were on the board during the Cardoza c0ck up wernt they?

Y would anyone trust them.







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« Reply #27075 on: July 30, 2020, 15:36:25 pm »

The trust were on the board during the Cardoza c0ck up wernt they?

Y would anyone trust them.









Bit like saying that the last Northampton Town chairman didn't deal with the redev well, why should we believe that this one will?

Different times, different people.
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« Reply #27076 on: July 30, 2020, 15:52:31 pm »

Bit like saying that the last Northampton Town chairman didn't deal with the redev well, why should we believe that this one will?

Different times, different people.

Exactly.

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« Reply #27077 on: July 30, 2020, 22:21:41 pm »

Just listened to the KT tirade re the East Stand. There really is a lot of hot air and it ain't coming from a dyson. He seems rattled. I cannot see this ending well.

He came over reasonably well - you need to loosen up on KT a bit. He and KC appeared to have managed the Club quite well the last few months.
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« Reply #27078 on: July 31, 2020, 10:28:07 am »

The trust were on the board during the Cardoza c0ck up wernt they?

Y would anyone trust them.


I’m inclined to agree
When the time came for a whistleblower to lift the lid on what was happening last time it was left to someone not on the board to do the deed....

What exactly were the trust doing??
It was their job to inform the members and fans and they chose not too instead leaving it to someone else.

They were not fit for purpose then and I’d imagine it’s the same people who failed the fanbase then that are still in charge and making a racket now....

Apologise for the way you let the fanbase down last time before you go on your next crusade...

As far as I know there was never an apology from the board for their part in things and they’d have had my respect if they’d stood up and admitted mistakes were made on their watch.

(Amended to correct the quote in/out box... Wink   )
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« Reply #27079 on: July 31, 2020, 11:38:51 am »

I’m inclined to agree
When the time came for a whistleblower to lift the lid on what was happening last time it was left to someone not on the board to do the deed....

What exactly were the trust doing??
It was their job to inform the members and fans and they chose not too instead leaving it to someone else.

They were not fit for purpose then and I’d imagine it’s the same people who failed the fanbase then that are still in charge and making a racket now....

Apologise for the way you let the fanbase down last time before you go on your next crusade...

As far as I know there was never an apology from the board for their part in things and they’d have had my respect if they’d stood up and admitted mistakes were made on their watch.

(Amended to correct the quote in/out box... Wink   )

Fully agree with this
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