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Redevelopment Closer Than Ever?

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Manwork04
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« Reply #29360 on: October 05, 2021, 16:47:20 pm »

Here we go again, the Trust represents the fans in the Councils view, that’s all that matters.
I fully support the Trust in their holding the owners feet to the fire in this particular matter.
The chances of KT and the Trust having a working relationship are over, his ego has been dented and there’s no coming back from that.
We are in a bit of a no win situation because we either get a very expensive “white elephant “ of a stand and a lot of industrial units or DB pulls the plug.
Just for the record I think a fan owned club would be as an absolute last resort.
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Rule Britannia
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« Reply #29361 on: October 05, 2021, 16:50:18 pm »

For the Trust to represent them (BOTN, Hammy etc etc) then the Trust would have to be happy and support

1. The owners selling the club for £6.68m to suspicious Chinese 'investors'
As I said earlier that is their right

2. The owners piling £7m debt with no increase in assets
So during this period where the debt has been incurred what would the all saving Trust done to keep the club afloat, pay wages, pay for manager changes, pay for new players etc?

3. The owners allowing Sixfields to rot around our ears
Yes Sixfields is a shíthole was before they came, again how would the turst have financed revitalising the stadium?

4. The owners not to invest in decent players
True, they invested in lower league players because that's where we play.

5. The owners not to have any medium or long term plans for NTFC
Why should they, the trust and people like you have made it clear they are not wanted.

6. The owners trying to move part of the ACV land into other holdings to build warehouses on
That is their perogative.

7. The owners whose main focus is on making money by selling assets of the club / people of Northampton  AKA Asset stripping
They are selling something they own, the club does not belong to the people of Northampton(they wouldn't want it).

This makes uncomfortable reading which I hope most genuine Northampton Town supporters agree is NOT the fault of myself or the Trust, but that of our owners, Mr Kelvin Thomas, Chairman and 5% owner (actually I believe the Trust is a bigger shareholder) and Mr & MRS David Bower -
Again, how the hell would the trust have done better and financed their tenure in control?

For those of you who don't know, Mr Bower is a friend of KT, a retired Oxford solicitor and property developer, now living in Dubai and has attended around 5 Cobblers games in 6 years.
What a shock. He is not a fan, he never will be a fan as long as he has a hole in his árse, he is the owner.



You really do talk some shít sometimes.
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« Reply #29362 on: October 05, 2021, 17:22:41 pm »

Here we go again, the Trust represents the fans in the Councils view, that’s all that matters.

Genuine question. How do you know that for sure?
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« Reply #29363 on: October 05, 2021, 19:36:46 pm »

For the Trust to represent them (BOTN, Hammy etc etc) then the Trust would have to be happy and support

1. The owners selling the club for £6.68m to suspicious Chinese 'investors'

2. The owners piling £7m debt with no increase in assets

3. The owners allowing Sixfields to rot around our ears

4. The owners not to invest in decent players

5. The owners not to have any medium or long term plans for NTFC

6. The owners trying to move part of the ACV land into other holdings to build warehouses on

7. The owners whose main focus is on making money by selling assets of the club / people of Northampton  AKA Asset stripping

This makes uncomfortable reading which I hope most genuine Northampton Town supporters agree is NOT the fault of myself or the Trust, but that of our owners, Mr Kelvin Thomas, Chairman and 5% owner (actually I believe the Trust is a bigger shareholder) and Mr & MRS David Bower -

For those of you who don't know, Mr Bower is a friend of KT, a retired Oxford solicitor and property developer, now living in Dubai and has attended around 5 Cobblers games in 6 years.



I have called you out as a liar on numerous occasions. You created a totally fictitious meeting between my father and David Cardoza. Stating that I was pi$$ed off about the result of the meeting. Incredible, considering I haven’t even met my father. Now you produce a list, with not a single shred of evidence that I agree with any of it.

I’m waiting to see what your fixation with me pops up with next 😀😀😀
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« Reply #29364 on: October 05, 2021, 19:46:59 pm »

You really do talk some shít sometimes.
I've read your answers in red Sing and the funny thing is, you and Random do not disagree about anything arising from his nine points.
You accept every single one.
Your assertion that the Trust couldn't do any better is irrelevant.
The question is, could and should the clubs owners be doing so if they have the best interests of the club at heart?
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« Reply #29365 on: October 05, 2021, 21:09:41 pm »

I've read your answers in red Sing and the funny thing is, you and Random do not disagree about anything arising from his nine points.
You accept every single one.
Your assertion that the Trust couldn't do any better is irrelevant.
The question is, could and should the clubs owners be doing so if they have the best interests of the club at heart?


We all agree they should be doing better, to varying degrees. Hence the reason it makes Randoms points actually POINTLESS. It’s the fact that we disagree on the path to achieving those things.

The owners certainly do have long term plans for the club. They’re just a total contrast to what was originally said, and not in line with some peoples thoughts. They see a sustainable model through enabling development. At the moment, regardless of countless attempts happy some to highlight their concerns on this, it appears to have fallen on deaf ears.
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Manwork04
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« Reply #29366 on: October 05, 2021, 22:05:55 pm »

Genuine question. How do you know that for sure?
Because two of them sit on the Trust board.
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Rule Britannia
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« Reply #29367 on: October 06, 2021, 02:07:05 am »

I was tempted to start a separate thread for this post titled Trust vrs Thomas & Bower but I won’t. Having spoken personally at length to individual members of the board of the Trust and been involved in countless discussions on here I will try to give some closure to this debate as briefly as possible. As laughable as it seems there has to be an attempt at resolution on all sides otherwise there will be stalemate indefinitely. I promise you this will be the best you will get, so please read with an open mind.

So who is correct, are the owners allowing the club to languish and not really progress to any acceptable level? Alternatively are they doing an acceptable and decent job? The answer surprise surprise is both. An analogy you could use is that in actual fact we are trying to compare Joe Root and Harry Kane in terms of sporting ability.

The owners are investors. That means they are ultimately looking to spend as little as possible and make as much profit as possible at the back end. In an ideal world a club needs an ownership model that is not interested in profit and wants all revenue ploughed back into the club. The issue is not Kelvin Thomas and David Bower, it is the rules that allow investor owners in the first place.

The real problem is this. If you were able to force them out you may well end up in a situation where the new owners or position of the club is far worse. If you do nothing then they may sell to owners who are far worse anyway. Should the Trust step in with an ownership model, at this point in time my best guess is the risks of the club failing will be high. So in summary if the owners stay then the inevitable is maybe prolonged, or maybe not if they find a more rapacious buyer. If their hand is forced and they leave then the inevitable may come sooner, either way the chances of it coming are very real.

My conclusion is that as a business the club cannot operate to its current levels without additional financial assistance and support. It is unlikely that a new stand will resolve the revenue issue and there is no real alternative vehicle to ensure that there is enough self sustainable revenue is available to the club at this time. The answer is for the rules to be changed to restrict the activities, powers and options for investors in football generally moving forward. Additionally clubs have to find a way to generate additional revenue beyond gate receipts or drastically reduce operating costs, it’s A or B, there is no C.

If we as supporters allow the investor model such as the current one to continue unchecked we are playing Russian roulette with the club. It is only a matter of time before there is a bullet in the chamber. If any group manages to force the owners out without having a viable, workable plan, revenue stream and/or access to finance, they are also playing Russian roulette with the club, and there may be a bullet in the chamber. Either way we are likely as not ending up with a serious head trauma.

The only way this will be settled is for all parties to draw a line in the sand and work together with a very clear plan and set of objectives to secure the future of Northampton Town football club. That should include a strategy for the club and football generally to protect itself from unscrupulous owners. There also has to be a plan that generates income and reduces operating costs for clubs to be self sustainable. The current impasse and on going disputes merely increase the chances of the demise of the club. Northampton Town Football Club and the rest of the EFL needs restructuring from an operational and financial perspective, otherwise the end is coming and it’s only a matter of time. Do we intend to fiddle whilst Rome burns or do we want to be proactive in protecting the club?

Those who support owners such as the current ones are like it or not ultimately endorsing a model that puts the future of the club in real jeopardy at some point, either by the activities of the current owners or those of future incumbents. Forcing them out without having supporting pillars of financial solvency and viable operational planning equally puts the club in real jeopardy. Therefore pointing the finger at each other is pointless as generally speaking we are all right…..or wrong, whichever you prefer. Those are the real facts in all this.

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« Reply #29368 on: October 06, 2021, 08:32:07 am »

I was tempted to start a separate thread for this post titled Trust vrs Thomas & Bower but I won’t. Having spoken personally at length to individual members of the board of the Trust and been involved in countless discussions on here I will try to give some closure to this debate as briefly as possible. As laughable as it seems there has to be an attempt at resolution on all sides otherwise there will be stalemate indefinitely. I promise you this will be the best you will get, so please read with an open mind.

So who is correct, are the owners allowing the club to languish and not really progress to any acceptable level? Alternatively are they doing an acceptable and decent job? The answer surprise surprise is both. An analogy you could use is that in actual fact we are trying to compare Joe Root and Harry Kane in terms of sporting ability.

The owners are investors. That means they are ultimately looking to spend as little as possible and make as much profit as possible at the back end. In an ideal world a club needs an ownership model that is not interested in profit and wants all revenue ploughed back into the club. The issue is not Kelvin Thomas and David Bower, it is the rules that allow investor owners in the first place.

The real problem is this. If you were able to force them out you may well end up in a situation where the new owners or position of the club is far worse. If you do nothing then they may sell to owners who are far worse anyway. Should the Trust step in with an ownership model, at this point in time my best guess is the risks of the club failing will be high. So in summary if the owners stay then the inevitable is maybe prolonged, or maybe not if they find a more rapacious buyer. If their hand is forced and they leave then the inevitable may come sooner, either way the chances of it coming are very real.

My conclusion is that as a business the club cannot operate to its current levels without additional financial assistance and support. It is unlikely that a new stand will resolve the revenue issue and there is no real alternative vehicle to ensure that there is enough self sustainable revenue is available to the club at this time. The answer is for the rules to be changed to restrict the activities, powers and options for investors in football generally moving forward. Additionally clubs have to find a way to generate additional revenue beyond gate receipts or drastically reduce operating costs, it’s A or B, there is no C.

If we as supporters allow the investor model such as the current one to continue unchecked we are playing Russian roulette with the club. It is only a matter of time before there is a bullet in the chamber. If any group manages to force the owners out without having a viable, workable plan, revenue stream and/or access to finance, they are also playing Russian roulette with the club, and there may be a bullet in the chamber. Either way we are likely as not ending up with a serious head trauma.

The only way this will be settled is for all parties to draw a line in the sand and work together with a very clear plan and set of objectives to secure the future of Northampton Town football club. That should include a strategy for the club and football generally to protect itself from unscrupulous owners. There also has to be a plan that generates income and reduces operating costs for clubs to be self sustainable. The current impasse and on going disputes merely increase the chances of the demise of the club. Northampton Town Football Club and the rest of the EFL needs restructuring from an operational and financial perspective, otherwise the end is coming and it’s only a matter of time. Do we intend to fiddle whilst Rome burns or do we want to be proactive in protecting the club?

Those who support owners such as the current ones are like it or not ultimately endorsing a model that puts the future of the club in real jeopardy at some point, either by the activities of the current owners or those of future incumbents. Forcing them out without having supporting pillars of financial solvency and viable operational planning equally puts the club in real jeopardy. Therefore pointing the finger at each other is pointless as generally speaking we are all right…..or wrong, whichever you prefer. Those are the real facts in all this.





In all fairness Melly, that says a lot with actually saying nothing at all. In some respects, it is merely an exercise in stating the obvious. As I have said for some time. There should not be a perception that there are actual sides here. This theory has only been cemented by those who support the Trust. who have stated that there is no real alternative to a 51% or a fan owned model. If you disagree with this, you are automatically perceived as anti Trust or pro KT. The truth lies well in between both extremes, and alienating those that want to explore alternatives, doesn't look good.

I'm a supporter of NTFC. I don't agree with the idea that the land should be handed over without significant caveats. However, I am adamant that it should go to the club for the benefit of the club. Those that don't agree with that, will have to sit by and watch it handed over to a faceless conglomerate and any potential revenue streams will dry up and probably end up off shore anyway.

I can only repeat what I have said right from the start. The club, like it or not, does not see the Trust as representative of the support. That more than likely has nothing to do with whether or not it is. It is mostly due to the fact that the Trust hasn't had any significant part in the fans thoughts for many years now. Like it or not, it is seen as an irrelevance. This in turn allows KT to exploit that void and fill it with promises and notions that the club is not dead in the water, but is in fact a dynamic, forward thinking club, that is currently having its ambitions and aspirations curtailed by those pesky kids at the Trust. There whole situation, as you say Melly, has led to an impasse.

So, something has to give. Firstly the Trust has to start doing something more than hiding behind meeting room doors. It has to start aligning itself with the fanbase. It has to have less of a think tank appearance, and more of a soft side that the support can relate to. Our supporters are not interested in politics. They are interested in what's on offer. You can have the best intentions in the world, but these amount to nothing if you cannot get people to join you in change. I can assure you, just a few hundred well led supporters, would change things.

As for KT and DB. Something will give here soon. There is no doubt that they come into this with one, maybe two eyes on the development potential. However, the patience is definitely wearing thin. I'm the first to admit these days, that we need to see something happen that doesn't rely on building something external to the ground. Sixfields does look tired and dirty. In fact there is a malaise around the place. It just feels static and apathetic.

In summary. The Trust needs to get back in touch with the support. Yes you're clever. Yes you care. But this is not getting across to the support. Your failure to galvanise the support behind your ideas, has left you looking like just another interested party in the stadium, enabling land, and club. You need the support. You ARE a supporters Trust. As for the club. If KT and DB do not start to show significant change at NTFC, they will topple. I just feel that we are on the cusp of a tide of resentment. A few more bad results, and a plummet in league position will bring with it consequences. We are undoubtedly at a cross roads. The coming months will test the intentions and resolve of all involved.





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« Reply #29369 on: October 06, 2021, 08:37:48 am »

I don't disagree with any of that, Melly. The thing is, to enact most of it would require a fundamental change in the structure of the game from top to bottom. I'm not saying that won't happen some day, but realistically that change isn't going to be driven by the supporters of humble little Northampton Town.

I said this to someone yesterday, we have to deal in the here and now. Where we are is that we are run by investors, not fans. They've nonetheless invested well in our playing staff in the past, but that seems to have dried up. Whether that is because of covid related cloth cutting or that they've decided enough is enough is anyone's guess.

If we want new owners who are more ambitious for the club and are willing to spend accordingly
then the easiest way to expedite the current owners' exit is to all pull in the same direction to get them what they want.

That's my issue with the Trust over all this. They don't like KT or DB and want them out, but equally aren't willing to compromise to achieve this (on anything, even a bloody Zoom call for Christ's sake!). To this end they keep throwing obstacles in the path and while none of them are full on roadblocks, they are enough to slow the journey.

In my mind, the best (and more importantly realistic) outcome is:
- the surrounding redevelopment is completed.
- the resulting profit shared between the club and the council, thereby buying back some goodwill in the wider community after the loan scandal.
- part of the club's share is used to fund a modest completion of the East Stand (and possibly to pay off the directors loans)
- some cash going into the club coffers to put us on an even keel
- a nice, fat profit for the owners.

At this point, as they are investors not supporters, the club becomes a millstone around the owners' necks and they are likely to sell, but they will be selling a club with marginally better facilities and a decent balancesheet, which would be an attractive proposition for any potential buyers, who will hopefully be more interested in the football side of things (or could be far worse than we currently have, but that's a risk you will always take!!)

Everyone wins though; the fans get a finished ground and a more stable football club, the owners walk away with a profit, the Trust get shot of the current owners, the council get some cash back and the people of the town get some of their lost taxes back, plus some additional jobs from the surrounding developments.

We (the fans, the club, the council, the Trust) all need to be pulling in the right direction for that to happen though. As long as we're all pulling in different directions, nothing will move anywhere.
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« Reply #29370 on: October 06, 2021, 08:58:30 am »

Very good post BackOfTheNet.

You're bound to get a warm fuzzy feeling from the council, if you sell it to them that you are of the people, by the people, for the people. I don't think it will take long for the council to catch on that is not the case at the moment.

The money from any enabling development, and future revenue, can so easily be controlled. The focus should be on how that is sorted, rather than the two main parties doing such a fantastic job at polarising the support.
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« Reply #29371 on: October 06, 2021, 09:15:52 am »

So we are doomed unless KT and DB stay, guess what Melly they will go at some time, DB is in his late seventies  and I hope he has many years left but you never know.
To say that there are no equitable investors out there is nonsense, I agree that the fit and proper rules are a joke, a bit like the governing bodies of our game.
How they can let clubs go to the wall (Bury) is beyond me, the chairman and board of directors should be held more accountable, maybe that way we would see all football clubs managed a little more prudently.
The deal is going to be done between the council and the owners, the Trust is a third wheel and will play no part contractually, all they are doing is trying to see the best deal for the club in the long term.
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« Reply #29372 on: October 06, 2021, 09:33:41 am »

So we are doomed unless KT and DB stay, guess what Melly they will go at some time, DB is in his late seventies  and I hope he has many years left but you never know.
To say that there are no equitable investors out there is nonsense, I agree that the fit and proper rules are a joke, a bit like the governing bodies of our game.
How they can let clubs go to the wall (Bury) is beyond me, the chairman and board of directors should be held more accountable, maybe that way we would see all football clubs managed a little more prudently.
The deal is going to be done between the council and the owners, the Trust is a third wheel and will play no part contractually, all they are doing is trying to see the best deal for the club in the long term.

I think I implied that didn’t I? I happen to believe we’re probably doomed either way without radical change from top to bottom. That’s my best take on it anyway.
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« Reply #29373 on: October 06, 2021, 10:49:04 am »

. This theory has only been cemented by those who support the Trust. who have stated that there is no real alternative to a 51% or a fan owned model. If you disagree with this, you are automatically perceived as anti Trust or pro KT.

I can only repeat what I have said right from the start. The club, like it or not, does not see the Trust as representative of the support. 
.
In summary. The Trust needs to get back in touch with the support. Yes you're clever. Yes you care. But this is not getting across to the support. Your failure to galvanise the support behind your ideas, has left you looking like just another interested party in the stadium, enabling land, and club. You need the support. You ARE a supporters Trust. As for the club. If KT and DB do not start to show significant change at NTFC, they will topple. I just feel that we are on the cusp of a tide of resentment. A few more bad results, and a plummet in league position will bring with it consequences. We are undoubtedly at a cross roads. The coming months will test the intentions and resolve of all involved.


I would really like to see some evidence to support your first statement, I know you will struggle to provide i,t because the statement is untrue, Please show me where it has been said  "that there is no real alternative to a 51% or a fan owned model"  I was on the Trust board for over 10 years and that was never stated. We could have had a fan owned club in 2015 but the Trust/Local Consortium stood aside for KT/DB , because that was thought to be better for NTFC.
    I agree 100% that the fans need to get together but you really don't help by posting things, attributed to the Trust, that are incorrect. The Trust are the only organisation that the fans at NTFC have and, as posted by a couple of people on here, if you are a member and are not happy with how it's run, let them know, don't just post negative stuff here. Nigel, you say the Trust needs to galvanise the fans, that is 100% true, but most of your posts seemed to be aimed at splitting the support, which has the opposite  effect, so why do you do that ?
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« Reply #29374 on: October 06, 2021, 11:44:32 am »



In all fairness Melly, that says a lot with actually saying nothing at all. In some respects, it is merely an exercise in stating the obvious. As I have said for some time. There should not be a perception that there are actual sides here. This theory has only been cemented by those who support the Trust. who have stated that there is no real alternative to a 51% or a fan owned model. If you disagree with this, you are automatically perceived as anti Trust or pro KT. The truth lies well in between both extremes, and alienating those that want to explore alternatives, doesn't look good.

I'm a supporter of NTFC. I don't agree with the idea that the land should be handed over without significant caveats. However, I am adamant that it should go to the club for the benefit of the club. Those that don't agree with that, will have to sit by and watch it handed over to a faceless conglomerate and any potential revenue streams will dry up and probably end up off shore anyway.

I can only repeat what I have said right from the start. The club, like it or not, does not see the Trust as representative of the support. That more than likely has nothing to do with whether or not it is. It is mostly due to the fact that the Trust hasn't had any significant part in the fans thoughts for many years now. Like it or not, it is seen as an irrelevance. This in turn allows KT to exploit that void and fill it with promises and notions that the club is not dead in the water, but is in fact a dynamic, forward thinking club, that is currently having its ambitions and aspirations curtailed by those pesky kids at the Trust. There whole situation, as you say Melly, has led to an impasse.

So, something has to give. Firstly the Trust has to start doing something more than hiding behind meeting room doors. It has to start aligning itself with the fanbase. It has to have less of a think tank appearance, and more of a soft side that the support can relate to. Our supporters are not interested in politics. They are interested in what's on offer. You can have the best intentions in the world, but these amount to nothing if you cannot get people to join you in change. I can assure you, just a few hundred well led supporters, would change things.

As for KT and DB. Something will give here soon. There is no doubt that they come into this with one, maybe two eyes on the development potential. However, the patience is definitely wearing thin. I'm the first to admit these days, that we need to see something happen that doesn't rely on building something external to the ground. Sixfields does look tired and dirty. In fact there is a malaise around the place. It just feels static and apathetic.

In summary. The Trust needs to get back in touch with the support. Yes you're clever. Yes you care. But this is not getting across to the support. Your failure to galvanise the support behind your ideas, has left you looking like just another interested party in the stadium, enabling land, and club. You need the support. You ARE a supporters Trust. As for the club. If KT and DB do not start to show significant change at NTFC, they will topple. I just feel that we are on the cusp of a tide of resentment. A few more bad results, and a plummet in league position will bring with it consequences. We are undoubtedly at a cross roads. The coming months will test the intentions and resolve of all involved.


Great post Hammy, I totally agree that the Trust need to start raising their profile of what they want and getting more support (and understanding)

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« Reply #29375 on: October 06, 2021, 12:04:43 pm »

I don't disagree with any of that, Melly. The thing is, to enact most of it would require a fundamental change in the structure of the game from top to bottom. I'm not saying that won't happen some day, but realistically that change isn't going to be driven by the supporters of humble little Northampton Town.

I said this to someone yesterday, we have to deal in the here and now. Where we are is that we are run by investors, not fans. They've nonetheless invested well in our playing staff in the past, but that seems to have dried up. Whether that is because of covid related cloth cutting or that they've decided enough is enough is anyone's guess.

If we want new owners who are more ambitious for the club and are willing to spend accordingly
then the easiest way to expedite the current owners' exit is to all pull in the same direction to get them what they want.

That's my issue with the Trust over all this. They don't like KT or DB and want them out, but equally aren't willing to compromise to achieve this (on anything, even a bloody Zoom call for Christ's sake!). To this end they keep throwing obstacles in the path and while none of them are full on roadblocks, they are enough to slow the journey.

In my mind, the best (and more importantly realistic) outcome is:
- the surrounding redevelopment is completed.
- the resulting profit shared between the club and the council, thereby buying back some goodwill in the wider community after the loan scandal.
- part of the club's share is used to fund a modest completion of the East Stand (and possibly to pay off the directors loans)
- some cash going into the club coffers to put us on an even keel
- a nice, fat profit for the owners.

At this point, as they are investors not supporters, the club becomes a millstone around the owners' necks and they are likely to sell, but they will be selling a club with marginally better facilities and a decent balancesheet, which would be an attractive proposition for any potential buyers, who will hopefully be more interested in the football side of things (or could be far worse than we currently have, but that's a risk you will always take!!)

Everyone wins though; the fans get a finished ground and a more stable football club, the owners walk away with a profit, the Trust get shot of the current owners, the council get some cash back and the people of the town get some of their lost taxes back, plus some additional jobs from the surrounding developments.

We (the fans, the club, the council, the Trust) all need to be pulling in the right direction for that to happen though. As long as we're all pulling in different directions, nothing will move anywhere.

The Trust have compromised for 6 years, they stood aside to allow Kt to take over and have been treated with destain every since.

The Trust have had a number of zoom calls with KT / DB over the years.

On the vitally important East stand land deal that KT has sat on for 6 years, a zoom call just would not cut it (again after quite a few zoom call where nothing ever moved forward)

KT only involved the Trust again when it became clear that the council valued the Trust's input and approval (of sorts)

Genuine Question BOTN - Why would you want a modest completion of the East stand?
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Terryfenwickatemyhamster
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« Reply #29376 on: October 06, 2021, 13:02:01 pm »

. This theory has only been cemented by those who support the Trust. who have stated that there is no real alternative to a 51% or a fan owned model. If you disagree with this, you are automatically perceived as anti Trust or pro KT.

I can only repeat what I have said right from the start. The club, like it or not, does not see the Trust as representative of the support. 
.
In summary. The Trust needs to get back in touch with the support. Yes you're clever. Yes you care. But this is not getting across to the support. Your failure to galvanise the support behind your ideas, has left you looking like just another interested party in the stadium, enabling land, and club. You need the support. You ARE a supporters Trust. As for the club. If KT and DB do not start to show significant change at NTFC, they will topple. I just feel that we are on the cusp of a tide of resentment. A few more bad results, and a plummet in league position will bring with it consequences. We are undoubtedly at a cross roads. The coming months will test the intentions and resolve of all involved.
/quote]
I would really like to see some evidence to support your first statement, I know you will struggle to provide i,t because the statement is untrue, Please show me where it has been said  "that there is no real alternative to a 51% or a fan owned model"  I was on the Trust board for over 10 years and that was never stated. We could have had a fan owned club in 2015 but the Trust/Local Consortium stood aside for KT/DB , because that was thought to be better for NTFC.
    I agree 100% that the fans need to get together but you really don't help by posting things, attributed to the Trust, that are incorrect. The Trust are the only organisation that the fans at NTFC have and, as posted by a couple of people on here, if you are a member and are not happy with how it's run, let them know, don't just post negative stuff here. Nigel, you say the Trust needs to galvanise the fans, that is 100% true, but most of your posts seemed to be aimed at splitting the support, which has the opposite  effect, so why do you do that ?

You seem to permanently concentrate on singular aspects of what I write, rather than making any attempt to understand the point I'm making. I can evidence  that it is a model that the Trust agree with, because you held a publicly attended meeting to push it. My experience is drawn from that and some of those who attended that meeting, plus other things said to me at Trust meetings subsequent to that. I specifically said those that "support the Trust", I did not mention the board members. A Trust board member also inferred that a certain local millionaire might be interested in buying the club, as part of a fan/investor model. The same person was referred to at the public meeting by a Trust board member, when addressing the concerns of a club employee.

I have repeatedly agreed with a number of things that the Trust have done, and continue to do so. I have praised them for what they have done on every level except one. Namely fan ownership, or a fan run club. I don't like it as an idea. That clearly appeals to your sensitivities. So what do you do, you read through all the stuff I say about the club, that is in disagreement with their stance, and you ignore it. Yet I disagree with one aspect of the Trust, and you latch onto it and label me as anti Trust.

I genuinely believe if you put your prejudices about me aside, you would see that I am frustrated, like most, with both sides. I believe that both are ignoring the support. My argument goes no further than the Trust are not getting the support on side. I'm happy to listen to any rational argument that you have, that shows an increase in membership, engagement, in fact anything that you can present that endorses your opinion that the current policies are supported. Show me it, that's the best way to prove your point. If you can, I will accept that I am being unfair in what I say and apologise. If you can't, then perhaps you owe me an apology.
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singcobb
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« Reply #29377 on: October 06, 2021, 14:02:31 pm »

I've read your answers in red Sing and the funny thing is, you and Random do not disagree about anything arising from his nine points.
You accept every single one.
Your assertion that the Trust couldn't do any better is irrelevant.
The question is, could and should the clubs owners be doing so if they have the best interests of the club at heart?



You have completelymissed the point. My opinion that the trust could not run the club, could not have financed the club through covid times and financed changing managers and getting in players is the crux of my repsonse. As far as I am concerned the trust even though they want some of the same things I do should never be let anywhere near the ownership of the club. For me it is like green political parties, great ideas not a fúcking clue on how to manage them fiscally.
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Carton Lid
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« Reply #29378 on: October 06, 2021, 14:12:33 pm »


You have completelymissed the point. My opinion that the trust could not run the club, could not have financed the club through covid times and financed changing managers and getting in players is the crux of my repsonse. As far as I am concerned the trust even though they want some of the same things I do should never be let anywhere near the ownership of the club. For me it is like green political parties, great ideas not a fúcking clue on how to manage them fiscally.
THEY WOULD EMPLOY PEOPLE, EXACTLY THE SAME AS KT DOES
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guest3359
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« Reply #29379 on: October 06, 2021, 14:28:44 pm »

THEY WOULD EMPLOY PEOPLE, EXACTLY THE SAME AS KT DOES
WHO
I have askes several times. If you want this scheme to be backed then we need to know who and what their credentials are and how they are better than what we have now.
Also doesnt answer the finance points
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