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Redevelopment Closer Than Ever?

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Manwork04
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« Reply #29360 on: October 07, 2021, 15:52:37 pm »

Yeah and your money has been so well used by the owners - NOT. Remind me of our league and financial position when they took over.

Achieve a lot in 6 years and £30m haven't they

Perhaps more importantly, what would the next 6 years look like under KT?  Trips to Braintree looks far more likely than Sunderland, Oxford, MK, Luton, Wycombe or s***boro

But that is totally your choice and I am not saying you don't contribute, it just I and hopefully many others want to see some improvements. If that's to be done separately then so be it.

I think an Infrastructure Foundation is the way to start the ball rolling (towards the net I hope  Smiley).

Manwork, Singcobb, Hammy, Deepcut, Carton, Whitedogdo, Everbrite, Teachers pet, Coolcat, Steve Massey and all you others, in principle, would you contribute a small monthly amount to go towards an infrastructure project?
Yes.
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« Reply #29361 on: October 07, 2021, 15:55:32 pm »

Yes, but I have to agree with Woody, it would have to be for a tangible project with a set cost and sensible business case. That wouldn't mean the East as that has some "ringpieced" money for it already and has a dubious business case.

Thanks Singcobb that's good to know.

I totally agree re: the East stand although the only thing I would say was if it was towards something special inside, like a supporters bar or similar.

I would prefer that the East stand was funded by the land deal and other grants / partners, depending of course on what the fans wanted, re more seats, more facilities etc.

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« Reply #29362 on: October 07, 2021, 15:57:18 pm »

Yes, but I have to agree with Woody, it would have to be for a tangible project with a set cost and sensible business case. That wouldn't mean the East as that has some "ringpieced" money for it already and has a dubious business case.
Grin Is ringpieced money still legal tender?
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« Reply #29363 on: October 07, 2021, 15:59:06 pm »

So what? They were his shares to do with what he wanted as is the money, absolutely nothing to do with club income or accounts.

No sure you can say it is nothing to do with income and we were also talking about what KT takes out of the club

Those shares he sold were for the club that he brought for £1 and the Trust partly negotiated that deal, especially in wiping £10m NBC loan out.

So I think it is fair to mention it. Ultimately it is money that has gone out of the football club.
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« Reply #29364 on: October 07, 2021, 15:59:57 pm »

Grin Is ringpieced money still legal tender?

Plenty of ring pieces around these parts.  Grin
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« Reply #29365 on: October 07, 2021, 16:00:32 pm »

Grin Is ringpieced money still legal tender?

Well they have made a total arse of it and the council so yes  Grin Grin
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« Reply #29366 on: October 07, 2021, 16:15:39 pm »

Thanks Deepcut for the reminder, I have been travelling a lot recently.

The Trust communications are on their website and official social media accounts

Anything else is posted as personal views and not necessary that of the Trust and or its board.

Therefore my posts are mine. And I am far more impatient, frustrated and aggressive regarding the situation hence the tone of my posts. The Trust board as a whole, for various reasons, are running out of patience with KT but there are different voices and opinions.

The refusal of KT to answer the 25 questions (he requested) and offering another public control zoom call was not appropriate in the circumstances. The Trust got a lot of flack and made out to be the ones who were being stubborn and uncooperative. Remember KT is the master of spin, has a team of PR and media people, plus 'controls' on the local media. The Trust board are 9-11 people, all who have days jobs, volunteering, so I believe are due some slack. It really annoys me that some on here, hold the Trust up to the highest levels of scrutiny and expectations but never to the owners, who are ultimately responsible for the mess we are in.

Please consider that perhaps the Trust or it's supporters needed to be more vocal and aggressive to get noticed, to show that all is not well and to put pressure on KT to do more.

You could say it has had some effect, since the presentation, how many times had the club put our PR re being local, community, local fee, the appointment of Kingsthorpe associate Director, the supporters rep etc. Now they may be window dressing and many will see through them as cynical but perhaps KT is listening, although they are all free. I would be more impressed if they fixed the windows and improved the catering or opened a tin of paint.

The TRust need to show supporters they care, they are human, they want to help, and they are prepared to listen and learn. (BECAUSE THEY DO) They want ideas, volunteers, help etc etc. I want to see far better, regular, modern communication such as podcasts, video interviews, zoom meetings and even question time style events etc. This is being discussed now, again anyone interested please let me know, we really want and need more help.

I understand people have different views and they are all valid but ultimately is about those who lead and who wants to follow.

You set-up / run this forum, which is great (most of the time), and I thank you for all your time and effort. You do what you think is best for the majority, but you can't please everyone, all of the time. It will be the same for the Trust and the new supporters rep. You have to take a view you are doing it for the right reasons. It is impossible to represent the exact feelings of every single supporter on every subject.

Football is changing, supporters are becoming more and more involved, football is not like any other business, it is / should be a community asset.

I hope that at least answers some of your concerns  Smiley

I acknowledge that you intend to post your own views, however your tone and persistence of stance do not give me the impression that you would not proffer those same views at meetings as a Trust Board member.

I've already said my piece on here about the'25 questions'.

By all means be more vocal and aggressive to get noticed, but can you switch your target to those who it would impress and/or affect i.e. KT and DB?  On here it's a wasted effort. The members on this board are not your target.

"The Trust need to show supporters they care, they are human, they want to help, and they are prepared to listen and learn." Show that you care, are a human, that you want to help and are prepared to listen by listening to our concerns and difficulties with some of the Trust Boards 'emissions', not continually and aggressively putting down and/or shouting over them stating that 'you lot are wrong!' or words of similar effect.  There are enough of us asking those similar questions and with similar concerns/comments that there must be a problem with the original communications, don't you realise that? Or is the problem deeper than even I believe it is, with The Trust Board?

We have a saying: "His men will follow him anywhere, even if it is just out of idle curiosity".  You cannot demand to be a leader, you cannot demand that someone follows you, you have to encourage them, to come along with you, take them with you, not be miles out in front wanting everyone else to catch up.  The Trust Board hasn't taken many (if any) with them, they have forged on in front, marching to their own agenda, us stragglers have been left behind.  You are out on your own, without the majority behind you to support you in the final push or when it gets difficult.

I didn't set up, nor do I run this forum.  Many years ago I was asked to assist, to 'Moderate' it in accordance with the guidance at the bottom of the page, which I do, in accordance with that guidance.  I do not go beyond that guidance.  I don't pretend to represent anyone especially 'the majority', I just enforce the guidance to enable the majority to enjoy their own opportunity to 'chat' about their football in an acceptable environment.  Some posters, disrupt that environment either by their illegal actions or by their annoying repetition or keyboard aggressiveness towards other posters. 
We do regularly receive complaints and/or comments, we listen, discuss between 'the management' and decide on a course of action to either remain as we are or change, reporting back to the originator with our decision either personally or publicly. 
I do however have my own views, that are not associated with this board and there is a clear delineation between the two because they are completely different roles.

You don't appear to have that delineation?

Some would argue that The Trust Board follows their own guidance (The Trust Charter), I would argue that they exceed that guidance in some things that they do, especially regarding the consultation process with the members that they are charged with representing.
Yes, they should attempt to represent the majority. At the moment, as far as I can see, they only represent the majority of The Trust Board.

Yes, I agree that football is changing, that supporters are becoming more involved, but there are ways of bringing the majority of us along with the fan organisations that are attempting to be involved.
Unfortunately, on this board, you are presenting yourself as the loudest representative of The Trust Board and, in my opinion, you are not doing a good job for The Trust Board, with the way that you are presenting yourself.  You are not encouraging anyone to either join, re-join or get more involved with anything that is associated with you.

Your response has answered a few concerns, but it has also confirmed a larger number that I wasn't entirely sure of, because I was previously giving you the benefit of the doubt. Wink
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« Reply #29367 on: October 07, 2021, 16:30:50 pm »


So I think it is fair to mention it. Ultimately it is money that has gone out of the football club.

So if I have shares in Tesco and decide to sell them, would you say I've taken that money out of Tesco?
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« Reply #29368 on: October 07, 2021, 16:41:28 pm »

I think it's time to ask if Trust board members should be allowed their own posts on here, because it seem that a lot of people struggle to see the difference between the official view and an individuals view. The Trust has around 12 board members so everything they put out is agreed by the majority, but not always everyone.
    To me, if something is put out on the Trust webpage, then that is officially coming from the Trust. Any board member who posts on here is posting their own views not the Trust's view, unless stated otherwise,  after all we live in a free country and they are entitled to their own views.
    Unless they have recently changed, the Trust stated a while back that they were not interested in a fan owned club unless there was no other option, and even then they would prefer to work with other interested parties.
    But every so often one or two of the stirrers on here bring up "The Trust want to take over the club but have no money" despite them saying no such thing.
       Believe it or not, there are some people on here who only post to get a reaction and what's even more astounding is that these people are NOT teenagers, they are middle aged men who haven't yet grown up, sad isn't it ?

  
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« Reply #29369 on: October 07, 2021, 16:56:59 pm »

Grin Is ringpieced money still legal tender?

I thought you'd like that one.

There's loads that headlessly run around that they disappear up their own.
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« Reply #29370 on: October 07, 2021, 17:55:10 pm »

Yeah and your money has been so well used by the owners - NOT. Remind me of our league and financial position when they took over.

Achieve a lot in 6 years and £30m haven't they

Perhaps more importantly, what would the next 6 years look like under KT?  Trips to Braintree looks far more likely than Sunderland, Oxford, MK, Luton, Wycombe or s***boro

But that is totally your choice and I am not saying you don't contribute, it just I and hopefully many others want to see some improvements. If that's to be done separately then so be it.

I think an Infrastructure Foundation is the way to start the ball rolling (towards the net I hope  Smiley).

Manwork, Singcobb, Hammy, Deepcut, Carton, Whitedogdo, Everbrite, Teachers pet, Coolcat, Steve Massey and all you others, in principle, would you contribute a small monthly amount to go towards an infrastructure project?

I'm definately in, providing of course there are enough like minded people prepared in, principle, to help out the club they support.
20 of us contributing £20 per month would be pretty pointless. We need a high percentage of our fan base on board and unfortunately, if some of the comments on here are anything to go by,  it seems, at the moment, unlikely.
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« Reply #29371 on: October 07, 2021, 18:11:43 pm »

I think it's time to ask if Trust board members should be allowed their own posts on here, because it seem that a lot of people struggle to see the difference between the official view and an individuals view. The Trust has around 12 board members so everything they put out is agreed by the majority, but not always everyone.
    To me, if something is put out on the Trust webpage, then that is officially coming from the Trust. Any board member who posts on here is posting their own views not the Trust's view, unless stated otherwise,  after all we live in a free country and they are entitled to their own views.
    Unless they have recently changed, the Trust stated a while back that they were not interested in a fan owned club unless there was no other option, and even then they would prefer to work with other interested parties.
    But every so often one or two of the stirrers on here bring up "The Trust want to take over the club but have no money" despite them saying no such thing.
       Believe it or not, there are some people on here who only post to get a reaction and what's even more astounding is that these people are NOT teenagers, they are middle aged men who haven't yet grown up, sad isn't it ?

  

The thing to do is to disband the trust because as I’ve put forward it is no longer fit for purpose.
Any members of course should be free to post on here but the trust is obsolete.
A football club trust that no longer wish to have board representation…..
A new way forward is needed.
Anyone who thinks the trust is still fit for purpose given the face that it no longer wishes to have board representation, which is the whole point of its foundation is welcome to debate(or push water uphill) as much as they wish.
Who actually cares what they THINK
The fact is they are about to be superseded by someone who will actually KNOW.

How hard is that to understand.
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« Reply #29372 on: October 07, 2021, 18:22:58 pm »

The thing to do is to disband the trust because as I’ve put forward it is no longer fit for purpose.
Any members of course should be free to post on here but the trust is obsolete.
A football club trust that no longer wish to have board representation…..
A new way forward is needed.
Anyone who thinks the trust is still fit for purpose given the face that it no longer wishes to have board representation, which is the whole point of its foundation is welcome to debate(or push water uphill) as much as they wish.
Who actually cares what they THINK
The fact is they are about to be superseded by someone who will actually KNOW.

How hard is that to understand.

Anyone wish to agree or disagree with this stance? Just so I can see what the "majority" think.......(the majority of posters on here that is!)
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« Reply #29373 on: October 07, 2021, 18:26:45 pm »

I'm definately in, providing of course there are enough like minded people prepared in, principle, to help out the club they support.
20 of us contributing £20 per month would be pretty pointless. We need a high percentage of our fan base on board and unfortunately, if some of the comments on here are anything to go by,  it seems, at the moment, unlikely.

Yes if you got 10000 others to commit to a three year standing order too.
That should just about cover some of the outgoings we'd need.
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« Reply #29374 on: October 07, 2021, 18:32:43 pm »

Anyone wish to agree or disagree with this stance? Just so I can see what the "majority" think.......(the majority of posters on here that is!)
That’s fair enough

You’ll never convince me that a trust that was set up as the first to gain a place on a football club board was right to give up its hard earned place and then given the chance to regain it , decided to decline.

Is that not a fair statement.

Imo a new supporters board is needed who won’t capitulate
WILL have board representation and WiLL be open and transparent.

It’s not asking the earth is it???
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« Reply #29375 on: October 07, 2021, 18:39:18 pm »

Anyone wish to agree or disagree with this stance? Just so I can see what the "majority" think.......(the majority of posters on here that is!)

I agree, sort of. I used the very phrase "not fit for purpose" in relation to the Trust only 3 days ago when talking to Random.

That said, I kind of understand why they didn't put anyone forward for the fans role on the board. Having said that, given the field, if there had been an "official" Trust candidate they would almost certainly have won!

I'm not in favour of disbanding the Trust though. I think they still have a role to play, they just have a very long way to go to make themselves relevant again because, as Deepcut so eloquently put it earlier, they seem to have wandered off on their own without bothering to see if anyone was following them.
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« Reply #29376 on: October 07, 2021, 18:42:54 pm »

I agree, sort of. I used the very phrase "not fit for purpose" in relation to the Trust only 3 days ago when talking to Random.

That said, I kind of understand why they didn't put anyone forward for the fans role on the board. Having said that, given the field, if there had been an "official" Trust candidate they would almost certainly have won!

I'm not in favour of disbanding the Trust though. I think they still have a role to play, they just have a very long way to go to make themselves relevant again because, as Deepcut so eloquently put it earlier, they seem to have wandered off on their own without bothering to see if anyone was following them.
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« Reply #29377 on: October 07, 2021, 18:50:00 pm »

That’s fair enough

You’ll never convince me that a trust that was set up as the first to gain a place on a football club board was right to give up its hard earned place and then given the chance to regain it , decided to decline.

Is that not a fair statement.

Imo a new supporters board is needed who won’t capitulate
WILL have board representation and WiLL be open and transparent.

It’s not asking the earth is it???

For me....no, its not a fair statement!! As previously posted the fact is that the new owners, led by KT did not want supporter representation on the Board, it was a deal breaker. Are you seriously suggesting that the Trust should and possibly could have forced the club under by sticking to a point of principle?

Andy Clarke was the last holder of the position of Director as part of the old setup under Cardoza, but he resigned around two months before the takeover was completed due to his part in the signing of certain drawdown documents between the Council and the then owners. An interim Director was identified but I don't believe was ever appointed as by that time the crisis had erupted and takeover talks were in progress.
Kelvin Thomas made it a condition of the takeover partly based on the fact that the Trust director had done what he had done so was wary of the Trust's role in the club pre-takeover.

The Trust Board at the time did not want to give up that place but based upon the deal that was on the table, the "promises" that were being made by the incoming owners they did what they believed was in the best interests of the club at the time and stepped aside (with another Trust brokered rescue deal also on the table) in favour of the deal presented by KT.

Now, fast forward six years and a hastily rushed through scheme to bring in a "fans director" was announced. The Trust were not explicitly given the chance to regain a place as the place that was on offer was for an "independent individual", so that chance was as open to the Trust as it was to any member of Joe Public. If a Trust Director had decided to stand and apply for said position there is no doubt at all that they would have had to resign from the Trust board, therefore the position on the Clubs Board was NEVER going to be filled by "The Trust"

Now, if KT had come along to the Trust and offered that place back in its original guise and the Trust had declined you could rightfully claim what you are claiming, but that isn't and wasn't the case.

Is that difficult to understand??
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« Reply #29378 on: October 07, 2021, 18:53:08 pm »

Yes if you got 10000 others to commit to a three year standing order too.
That should just about cover some of the outgoings we'd need.

you do know that 10,000 x £20 = £200,000 per month £2.4m per year £7.2m over 3 years?

Or was it a typo and you meant 1000 ?  Cos given the right circumstances that is more than achievable

Also this is for infrastructure / project improvements not paying our star strikers wages  Smiley Smiley



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« Reply #29379 on: October 07, 2021, 18:58:22 pm »

I agree, sort of. I used the very phrase "not fit for purpose" in relation to the Trust only 3 days ago when talking to Random.

That said, I kind of understand why they didn't put anyone forward for the fans role on the board. Having said that, given the field, if there had been an "official" Trust candidate they would almost certainly have won!

I'm not in favour of disbanding the Trust though. I think they still have a role to play, they just have a very long way to go to make themselves relevant again because, as Deepcut so eloquently put it earlier, they seem to have wandered off on their own without bothering to see if anyone was following them.
Can anyone come on here and explain how they are fit for purpose??
There whole being was having a seat on the board.
They’ve given one up.
They’ve declined the offer to stand to regain a place on the board.

How can they still be relevant given THEIR choices.

I’ve met many board members and they are decent people , they really are, but the club needs much better representation and a new trust that can work with the club, have board representation and report to fans rather than make ‘executive’ decisions

The trust imo is currently just a clique of rebel rousers who have an aim of fan ownership with no blueprint(even random admits they haven’t canvassed opinion) in how to achieve it.

Fans are actually paying for this level of incompetence.

Things need to move on if there is to be a group of fans who will hold the club to account.
The current trust have proved not once but twice
that they have failed the fan base but somehow think they have the right to represent fans views  Tongue

Imo a new supporters group is needed that can report to the fans, have democratically elected members who will hold the club to account, will have ONE travel club and have the backing of the majority of fans.
We will soon have a new fans rep on the board and imo he needs to address this rather than go backwards to a trust that has become increasingly distant from the club and the fans who pay money for it to represent.

Can anyone argue against this??
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