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Redevelopment Closer Than Ever?

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Author Topic: Redevelopment Closer Than Ever?  (Read 1321635 times)
Manwork04
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« Reply #29380 on: October 06, 2021, 14:53:45 pm »

WHO
I have askes several times. If you want this scheme to be backed then we need to know who and what their credentials are and how they are better than what we have now.
Also doesnt answer the finance points
The staff would all be TUPE.
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Rule Britannia
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« Reply #29381 on: October 06, 2021, 15:03:48 pm »

Who would be on the board?
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« Reply #29382 on: October 06, 2021, 15:27:05 pm »

Singcobb, just to clarify, you do know that the club has an income of approx £6m per year from sources outside of the owners?

RE Covid, its a bit of a secret but most small clubs were fine, they used furlough and they were issued money from the FA and Football league, etc. No club has even gone close to going under since Covid (ok Derby but that's a different issue)

Woody, what are the credentials of KT and DB?  If you want to talk staff, well as Carton said, you employee people

The board would consist of a mix of people who were very experienced in a variety of ways, all having NTFC's best interests at heart, not their own.   That is an improvement to what we have now for a start
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« Reply #29383 on: October 06, 2021, 15:42:45 pm »

Singcobb, just to clarify, you do know that the club has an income of approx £6m per year from sources outside of the owners?

RE Covid, its a bit of a secret but most small clubs were fine, they used furlough and they were issued money from the FA and Football league, etc. No club has even gone close to going under since Covid (ok Derby but that's a different issue)

Woody, what are the credentials of KT and DB?  If you want to talk staff, well as Carton said, you employee people

The board would consist of a mix of people who were very experienced in a variety of ways, all having NTFC's best interests at heart, not their own.   That is an improvement to what we have now for a start
Its is a great improvement and what I would imagine every fans wants, so... who are they?
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« Reply #29384 on: October 06, 2021, 15:50:11 pm »

Think you will find it is KT who has bolted the door not the Trust. It started a long long time ago. If I list everything again you moan I am just repeating myself

I am defending myself and the Trust as it doesn't matter what they do it is wrong in your eyes

You can say that you don't blah blah blah

Why not implore our owners to do more, they currently are in control and have most of the power

Again its not mine or the Trust's fault that we are underachieving so badly and KT has delivered zero value as a Chairman.

Sorry I'm not fluffy, I don't say things I don't mean or I know are incorrect, just to appease you or the owners

Sorry i struggle to find much that the club does as positive, that has been done for the medium term, has been planned and well thought out or certainly better or different that what the vast majority of other clubs do.

Again you are shooting the messenger.

Why not try and win me over then, again tell me 3 reasons why I should support KT as our own and Chairman


I assume that you have read my original post properly by now?
Any chance of an appropriate response, instead of your knee jerk reaction to what you thought that I had written?
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« Reply #29385 on: October 06, 2021, 15:53:43 pm »

Its is a great improvement and what I would imagine every fans wants, so... who are they?

At this stage, I just don't know. Hopefully if there is a clear pathway then people will put their names (and money) forward wanting to get involved.

As I said, a combination of money, knowledge and dedication.  

KT put forward no plan (well ok he did £4m) and did not ask or seek permission to take over the football club. He was hardly a roaring success at Oxford and has not demonstrate any lasting success here, so the bar is not exactly high.





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« Reply #29386 on: October 06, 2021, 16:03:29 pm »

Il throw my twopenneth in.
Why are people having a spat on here?
We are on the verge of having an elected fans rep on the board of the club and it is THEY who will prove to be important towards the future of the club and they who will be able to brief fans and keep everyone updated in real time.
The trust may want many things but will not matter one jot as they will be superseded by the elected fan representative ,to a position historically held by a trust board member.
That ship has sailed now.
The trust who historically did have a seat on the board wonít have.
The new incumbent will be impartial and reading up on both candidates they both look good to me.
Whoever wins will have the board seat thatís been vacated by the trust.
I find it interesting that no one from the trust stood and as far as I know didnít bother telling their members that they would effectively be giving up their historic position on the board.
Given this situation itís probably for the best that no one from the trust applied.

Hopefully the new board member will embrace the fan base in a way the trust never did towards the end of its tenure.
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« Reply #29387 on: October 06, 2021, 16:18:28 pm »

I must take issue with you random over your statement that you say nothing that is incorrect.
You say KT has bought zero value to the club.
This is plain wrong.
He delivered the much heralded fans village by sticking the fans under the back of the north stand, putting a very expensive (imo) hamburger stall there and surrounding it with a few barriers that were left over from the stalled redevelopment.
The value of that to the match day experience was immeasurable although one could argue that Tony ansells boiled burgers thirty odd years ago would have seen revenues sky rocket adding yet more value.

Please get your facts right before saying our owners have bought zero value to the club.
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« Reply #29388 on: October 06, 2021, 16:22:20 pm »

I assume that you have read my original post properly by now?
Any chance of an appropriate response, instead of your knee jerk reaction to what you thought that I had written?

Thanks Deepcut for the reminder, I have been travelling a lot recently.

The Trust communications are on their website and official social media accounts

Anything else is posted as personal views and not necessary that of the Trust and or its board.

Therefore my posts are mine. And I am far more impatient, frustrated and aggressive regarding the situation hence the tone of my posts. The Trust board as a whole, for various reasons, are running out of patience with KT but there are different voices and opinions.

The refusal of KT to answer the 25 questions (he requested) and offering another public control zoom call was not appropriate in the circumstances. The Trust got a lot of flack and made out to be the ones who were being stubborn and uncooperative. Remember KT is the master of spin, has a team of PR and media people, plus 'controls' on the local media. The Trust board are 9-11 people, all who have days jobs, volunteering, so I believe are due some slack. It really annoys me that some on here, hold the Trust up to the highest levels of scrutiny and expectations but never to the owners, who are ultimately responsible for the mess we are in.

Please consider that perhaps the Trust or it's supporters needed to be more vocal and aggressive to get noticed, to show that all is not well and to put pressure on KT to do more.

You could say it has had some effect, since the presentation, how many times had the club put our PR re being local, community, local fee, the appointment of Kingsthorpe associate Director, the supporters rep etc. Now they may be window dressing and many will see through them as cynical but perhaps KT is listening, although they are all free. I would be more impressed if they fixed the windows and improved the catering or opened a tin of paint.

The TRust need to show supporters they care, they are human, they want to help, and they are prepared to listen and learn. (BECAUSE THEY DO) They want ideas, volunteers, help etc etc. I want to see far better, regular, modern communication such as podcasts, video interviews, zoom meetings and even question time style events etc. This is being discussed now, again anyone interested please let me know, we really want and need more help.

I understand people have different views and they are all valid but ultimately is about those who lead and who wants to follow.

You set-up / run this forum, which is great (most of the time), and I thank you for all your time and effort. You do what you think is best for the majority, but you can't please everyone, all of the time. It will be the same for the Trust and the new supporters rep. You have to take a view you are doing it for the right reasons. It is impossible to represent the exact feelings of every single supporter on every subject.

Football is changing, supporters are becoming more and more involved, football is not like any other business, it is / should be a community asset.

I hope that at least answers some of your concerns  Smiley
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« Reply #29389 on: October 06, 2021, 16:24:55 pm »

I must take issue with you random over your statement that you say nothing that is incorrect.
You say KT has bought zero value to the club.
This is plain wrong.
He delivered the much heralded fans village by sticking the fans under the back of the north stand, putting a very expensive (imo) hamburger stall there and surrounding it with a few barriers that were left over from the stalled redevelopment.
The value of that to the match day experience was immeasurable although one could argue that Tony ansells boiled burgers thirty odd years ago would have seen revenues sky rocket adding yet more value.

Please get your facts right before saying our owners have bought zero value to the club.

You nearly had me there  Grin

Yeah funny how the burgers are the most expensive yet the barriers the cheapest you can find
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« Reply #29390 on: October 06, 2021, 16:27:14 pm »

THEY WOULD EMPLOY PEOPLE, EXACTLY THE SAME AS KT DOES

AND WHERE DOES THE MONEY COME FROM? YES THE CLUB HAS INCOME, BUT THAT OBVIOUSLY HASN'T BEEN ENOUGH SO WHERE WOULD THE TRUST GET SEVEN MILLION FROM? OH I FORGOT THE LONG QUEUE OF LOCAL BUSINESS MEN WHO ARE WILLING TO SPUNK AWAY A SHÕTLOAD OF MONEY.
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« Reply #29391 on: October 06, 2021, 16:29:11 pm »

Singcobb, just to clarify, you do know that the club has an income of approx £6m per year from sources outside of the owners?

RE Covid, its a bit of a secret but most small clubs were fine, they used furlough and they were issued money from the FA and Football league, etc. No club has even gone close to going under since Covid (ok Derby but that's a different issue)

Woody, what are the credentials of KT and DB?  If you want to talk staff, well as Carton said, you employee people

The board would consist of a mix of people who were very experienced in a variety of ways, all having NTFC's best interests at heart, not their own.   That is an improvement to what we have now for a start

And it is obviously not enough otherwise we wouldn't be in debt to DB would we?
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« Reply #29392 on: October 06, 2021, 16:35:29 pm »

And it is obviously not enough otherwise we wouldn't be in debt to DB would we?

Or has it been enough and it is just the direction the club has taken that has resulted in the debt? Is the payroll too big? Are we employing too many staff? Have the marketing department being pulling their weight?
There are a lot of variables......

To simply say that "it hasn't been enough" seemingly totally misses the point!
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« Reply #29393 on: October 06, 2021, 16:39:15 pm »

Or has it been enough and it is just the direction the club has taken that has resulted in the debt? Is the payroll too big? Are we employing too many staff? Have the marketing department being pulling their weight?
There are a lot of variables......

To simply say that "it hasn't been enough" seemingly totally misses the point!

We don't look like a club living beyond our means..
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« Reply #29394 on: October 06, 2021, 16:44:08 pm »

Il throw my twopenneth in.
Why are people having a spat on here?
We are on the verge of having an elected fans rep on the board of the club and it is THEY who will prove to be important towards the future of the club and they who will be able to brief fans and keep everyone updated in real time.
The trust may want many things but will not matter one jot as they will be superseded by the elected fan representative ,to a position historically held by a trust board member.
That ship has sailed now.
The trust who historically did have a seat on the board wonít have.
The new incumbent will be impartial and reading up on both candidates they both look good to me.
Whoever wins will have the board seat thatís been vacated by the trust.
I find it interesting that no one from the trust stood and as far as I know didnít bother telling their members that they would effectively be giving up their historic position on the board.
Given this situation itís probably for the best that no one from the trust applied.

Hopefully the new board member will embrace the fan base in a way the trust never did towards the end of its tenure.

Hi Shoemaker,

The Trust didn't vacate a board seat, it was part of the new owners' stipulations that supporters should not be involved.  They were prepared to walk away from the takeover if the council insisted on fan representation.  There is no "historic position" to "give up" - it was removed by DB and KT during takeover negotiations.

Now from that anti-supporter position (you perhaps don't like research, but I suggest you look into their relationship with Oxford supporters when they owned that club) we have seen an extremely sudden and massive turnaround.  The initiative happened very suddenly, was very vaguely described on the Cobblers Show and in the in-house video put out by the club, and KT couldn't provide any detail about what the role might encompass.  For someone who said they'd been thinking about it for a while, there weren't many thoughts!

What do you think has led to this simply indescribable reversal in attitude from the owners?  It couldn't possibly have been the Trust, could it?

The Trust made it clear very early on through a statement that whilst it considered this a welcome move it would not put forward an official candidate for the role because Kelvin Thomas had said the fan representative should be independent.  Andy and Derek from the board were on the Cobblers Show last week explaining this too.  So yes, the Trust has communicated this - several times - to everyone, not just members.

Regardless of my cynicism, I do think this is potentially a step in the right direction.  KT has previously stated that board meetings don't happen at the Cobblers because everything is done over the phone.  With JW and a fan rep there they will presumably have to hold meetings, which may well be a good thing.  So perhaps something right will happen even though in my opinion it has been done for the wrong reasons.

The supporter rep will have a tough job.  The trust has over 700 members, a website, a dedicated email address, 12+ dedicated volunteers who all know a lot of other supporters, go to pretty much every match, sit in the stands and talk to people, a constitution, a clear mission, a 30 year history which involves being the first of its kind and close involvement in saving NTFC - twice!  And it still attracts a load of criticism from people saying it's not representative etc.  It may be a lonely job at times if the supporter rep expresses any kind of opinion, ever!

There is and always will be a really important place for the Trust, regardless of people who choose to forget (or perhaps never to know) their history - and that place is not in this role on the NTFC board at this time.

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« Reply #29395 on: October 06, 2021, 16:44:49 pm »

We don't look like a club living beyond our means..

Too true!!
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« Reply #29396 on: October 06, 2021, 16:50:54 pm »

Hi Shoemaker,

The Trust didn't vacate a board seat, it was part of the new owners' stipulations that supporters should not be involved.  They were prepared to walk away from the takeover if the council insisted on fan representation.  There is no "historic position" to "give up" - it was removed by DB and KT during takeover negotiations.

Now from that anti-supporter position (you perhaps don't like research, but I suggest you look into their relationship with Oxford supporters when they owned that club) we have seen an extremely sudden and massive turnaround.  The initiative happened very suddenly, was very vaguely described on the Cobblers Show and in the in-house video put out by the club, and KT couldn't provide any detail about what the role might encompass.  For someone who said they'd been thinking about it for a while, there weren't many thoughts!

What do you think has led to this simply indescribable reversal in attitude from the owners?  It couldn't possibly have been the Trust, could it?

The Trust made it clear very early on through a statement that whilst it considered this a welcome move it would not put forward an official candidate for the role because Kelvin Thomas had said the fan representative should be independent.  Andy and Derek from the board were on the Cobblers Show last week explaining this too.  So yes, the Trust has communicated this - several times - to everyone, not just members.

Regardless of my cynicism, I do think this is potentially a step in the right direction.  KT has previously stated that board meetings don't happen at the Cobblers because everything is done over the phone.  With JW and a fan rep there they will presumably have to hold meetings, which may well be a good thing.  So perhaps something right will happen even though in my opinion it has been done for the wrong reasons.

The supporter rep will have a tough job.  The trust has over 700 members, a website, a dedicated email address, 12+ dedicated volunteers who all know a lot of other supporters, go to pretty much every match, sit in the stands and talk to people, a constitution, a clear mission, a 30 year history which involves being the first of its kind and close involvement in saving NTFC - twice!  And it still attracts a load of criticism from people saying it's not representative etc.  It may be a lonely job at times if the supporter rep expresses any kind of opinion, ever!

There is and always will be a really important place for the Trust, regardless of people who choose to forget (or perhaps never to know) their history - and that place is not in this role on the NTFC board at this time.


Iím sorry I only bothered reading the first couple of lines and that was enough.
The trust did give up their seat on the board
They decided to give it up when KT asked them too and have regretted it ever since

You canít rewrite history.
They had a seat on the board under David Cardozo and KT made it part of his takeover that the trust were excluded from the board.
They had a choice
They could have said we do not agree to that request or yes we agree to that request.
They chose the latter option.
They DID relinquish their seat on the board.

Now deny that
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« Reply #29397 on: October 06, 2021, 16:53:10 pm »

That should have read Cardoza
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« Reply #29398 on: October 06, 2021, 16:59:00 pm »

GPC You forgot to mention the 5 (FIVE) managers that have been sacked and paid off, never mind the merry-go-round of their players and support staff they all want and need.

Compare that to say Plymouth 2 and Accrington 1. and many many other clubs who have far less than 5.

The other thing we have no idea on is, are there any management / consultancy fees from Florida, Dubai or Off-shore?  We have no idea but as Hammy says, we don't look like we are over spending does it.

There are clubs that make a profit in the lower leagues or losses are small.  

If we had 2000 fans contributing an extra £20 per month = £40k per month = £480k per year, that is a fair amount to more than cover general running losses. That is without factoring in business donations and sponsorship etc



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« Reply #29399 on: October 06, 2021, 17:03:37 pm »

Iím sorry I only bothered reading the first couple of lines and that was enough.
The trust did give up their seat on the board
They decided to give it up when KT asked them too and have regretted it ever since

You canít rewrite history.
They had a seat on the board under David Cardozo and KT made it part of his takeover that the trust were excluded from the board.
They had a choice
They could have said we do not agree to that request or yes we agree to that request.
They chose the latter option.
They DID relinquish their seat on the board.



Well with the benefit of hindsight, all the board wish they had stood their ground and KT/DB did not take over.
However KT came in making a big play that they had £4m ringfenced to invest in club

How would that have played out if the Trust said, no we scuppered the deal cos they wouldn't let us in the boardroom?

Come on Shoey, stop take the mick, you are confusing people
Now deny that
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