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Redevelopment Closer Than Ever?

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Author Topic: Redevelopment Closer Than Ever?  (Read 1287028 times)
Carton Lid
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« Reply #29400 on: October 06, 2021, 17:18:07 pm »

AND WHERE DOES THE MONEY COME FROM? YES THE CLUB HAS INCOME, BUT THAT OBVIOUSLY HASN'T BEEN ENOUGH SO WHERE WOULD THE TRUST GET SEVEN MILLION FROM? OH I FORGOT THE LONG QUEUE OF LOCAL BUSINESS MEN WHO ARE WILLING TO SPUNK AWAY A SHTLOAD OF MONEY.
Because a business loses 1M per year doesn't mean it always has to lose 1M per year. Just a thought, would the owners try to run a "tighter ship" if they didn't have the back up of the land value ? There seems to be no consequence to losing money if know you will get it back from the land deal.
          NTFC can be run on a break even, it did under DC a couple of times, and we had players on more money than they are on now. We get much better gates than over half the other League 2 clubs but they survive on much less income than us, so what's wrong with NTFC ?
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« Reply #29401 on: October 06, 2021, 17:22:49 pm »

GPC You forgot to mention the 5 (FIVE) managers that have been sacked and paid off, never mind the merry-go-round of their players and support staff they all want and need.

There's an element of luck in appointing managers and KT & DB have undoubtedly been unlucky. All I'll say is I was pleased with 4 of the appointments at the time they were made, the exception being Curle who is the orly one to get us promoted! I also agreed with all the sackings when they were made. Didn't you?

Compare that to say Plymouth 2 and Accrington 1. and many many other clubs who have far less than 5.

The other thing we have no idea on is, are there any management / consultancy fees from Florida, Dubai or Off-shore?  We have no idea but as Hammy says, we don't look like we are over spending does it.
Now you are just making stuff up that we might be able to get cross about. This sort of thing does you no favours in winning people over.

There are clubs that make a profit in the lower leagues or losses are small.  

If we had 2000 fans contributing an extra 20 per month = 40k per month = 480k per year, that is a fair amount to more than cover general running losses. That is without factoring in business donations and sponsorship etc

I for one wouldn't do this. I don't think many others would either.



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« Reply #29402 on: October 06, 2021, 17:29:44 pm »

Im sorry I only bothered reading the first couple of lines and that was enough.
The trust did give up their seat on the board
They decided to give it up when KT asked them too and have regretted it ever since

You cant rewrite history.
They had a seat on the board under David Cardozo and KT made it part of his takeover that the trust were excluded from the board.
They had a choice
They could have said we do not agree to that request or yes we agree to that request.
They chose the latter option.
They DID relinquish their seat on the board.

Now deny that

Not being bothered to read more than a couple of lines explains all of the errors in the post I replied to.

Yes, you are technically correct.  Happy now?

I had assumed you were interested in the health of the football club, not point scoring over a situation in which the club may have ceased to exist.  A situation which was in part facilitated by people making excuses a terrible chairman and rubbishing the Trust and others who were raising concerns. 

I'll stop now, it's probably past your attention span already.
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« Reply #29403 on: October 06, 2021, 17:59:16 pm »



Think about this for a minute or two please.

4 managers that you wanted as manager ALL failed and you wanted them sacked. What does that tell you?  Is it them that failed or something wrong at NTFC?

So called decent appointments on paper, all fail here, quote quickly to such an extend that you want them gone, no time, no medium term plan.

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« Reply #29404 on: October 06, 2021, 18:03:25 pm »

Re: Fees from overseas

No I am not making it up, I would expect to see something, don't tell me the owners / KT are not taking money out on a regular basis.

I know KT received over 1m for his sale of shares to the Chinese but who is paying his flights etc

KT says he doesn't take a salary but there are many ways to skin a cat

Do you know how much the Cardozas charged 1st Land for consultant / finder fees on the East stand development? 


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« Reply #29405 on: October 06, 2021, 18:07:41 pm »

So BOTN, you would not pay a little extra to support your football club?

How about buying more merchandise or more drink, food etc at the ground?

20 per month? really? How about 10 then?

What is I said that money went directly to training facilities or a massive modern supporters lounge or safe standing or increased capacity for the away to generate more money for the club?

Would you think about it then?
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« Reply #29406 on: October 06, 2021, 18:25:11 pm »

So BOTN, you would not pay a little extra to support your football club?

How about buying more merchandise or more drink, food etc at the ground?

20 per month? really? How about 10 then?

What is I said that money went directly to training facilities or a massive modern supporters lounge or safe standing or increased capacity for the away to generate more money for the club?

Would you think about it then?

No. I wouldn't. The club aren't a charity and shouldn't be treated as such. Propping them up does no favours and they need to be able to stand on their own two feet.

Leaner, meaner, more efficient - yes
Propped up or bailed out - no
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« Reply #29407 on: October 06, 2021, 19:05:57 pm »


You have completelymissed the point. My opinion that the trust could not run the club, could not have financed the club through covid times and financed changing managers and getting in players is the crux of my repsonse. As far as I am concerned the trust even though they want some of the same things I do should never be let anywhere near the ownership of the club. For me it is like green political parties, great ideas not a fcking clue on how to manage them fiscally.

This is complete nonsense. Bowers doesn't run the club and I am sure he would agree he knows nothing about football. He has staff that do that just as other owners would have. As for the second part about the Greens, there are green political parties in government around Europe and in the UK the whole point of the civil service is to run the country, political 'owners' come and go.
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« Reply #29408 on: October 06, 2021, 20:03:49 pm »

Re: Fees from overseas

No I am not making it up, I would expect to see something, don't tell me the owners / KT are not taking money out on a regular basis.

I know KT received over 1m for his sale of shares to the Chinese but who is paying his flights etc

KT says he doesn't take a salary but there are many ways to skin a cat

Do you know how much the Cardozas charged 1st Land for consultant / finder fees on the East stand development? 





I can't remember the exact breakdown, but I am sure Grossman's personal expenses accounted for more than 300,000. Mind you, I think the Jewish Burial company scappered with close to a quarter million: I still can't see how they explained that one away. Roll Eyes
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« Reply #29409 on: October 06, 2021, 20:31:37 pm »

I can't remember the exact breakdown, but I am sure Grossman's personal expenses accounted for more than 300,000. Mind you, I think the Jewish Burial company scappered with close to a quarter million: I still can't see how they explained that one away. Roll Eyes


The fee paid to DC & his father was paid to them after the first payment from NBC. Therefore it was already agreed and i expect before DC realised how they had been played

2m
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« Reply #29410 on: October 06, 2021, 21:55:00 pm »

In the latest accounts filed the club recorded a loss of 570,370 compared to the previous year of 1,677,262. Charlie Goode was sold for circa 1 million during that period if I am not mistaken. From where Im sitting to make the business viable on that basis you need to to either shave 1.6 million per year to break even, address any short fall in player sales, increase gate receipts or a combination of all 3. That would be a considerable challenge. Especially since a number of the support base consider the current spending to be inadequate, arguably massively so.
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« Reply #29411 on: October 06, 2021, 22:17:48 pm »

Singcobb, just to clarify, you do know that the club has an income of approx 6m per year from sources outside of the owners?


How are we getting (and spending more than) 6m per year?
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All he had to do was build a stand.
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« Reply #29412 on: October 06, 2021, 22:38:54 pm »

In the latest accounts filed the club recorded a loss of 570,370 compared to the previous year of 1,677,262. Charlie Goode was sold for circa 1 million during that period if I am not mistaken. From where Im sitting to make the business viable on that basis you need to to either shave 1.6 million per year to break even, address any short fall in player sales, increase gate receipts or a combination of all 3. That would be a considerable challenge. Especially since a number of the support base consider the current spending to be inadequate, arguably massively so.

The Charlie Goode sale was not included in that year...... Accounts to year end 30th June 2020....Goode was sold on 19th August 2020. That money will appear in the 2021 accounts. Also set to appear in the 2021 accounts will be the PL grant to EFL clubs (375k minimum plus lost gate revenue share)

What did appear in those accounts for 2020 though was the money (gate and prize and TV revenue) banked from the FA Cup run, which I assume is the sum shown as "other operating income" on page 9, the sum of 483,845 which reduced the operating loss from just under 1.1m to the 570k figure you have already mentioned.

Also shown on page 13 are the player registration costs and income, which I take to be purchases of 114k (the Goode PURCHASE) and sales of 105k (Pierre and Morais), those being the undisclosed transfer dealings in that accounting period.
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« Reply #29413 on: October 06, 2021, 23:13:45 pm »

The bollox meter is on full tilt tonight. All these people that can read Wow. Yet not a solution in sight. I wish I was that clever..
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« Reply #29414 on: October 06, 2021, 23:32:06 pm »

The bollox meter is on full tilt tonight. All these people that can read Wow. Yet not a solution in sight. I wish I was that clever..
I think the bollox meter is broken, this thread is going round and round and round..it bit like ..
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« Reply #29415 on: October 06, 2021, 23:49:35 pm »

Not being bothered to read more than a couple of lines explains all of the errors in the post I replied to.

Yes, you are technically correct.  Happy now?

I had assumed you were interested in the health of the football club, not point scoring over a situation in which the club may have ceased to exist.  A situation which was in part facilitated by people making excuses a terrible chairman and rubbishing the Trust and others who were raising concerns. 

I'll stop now, it's probably past your attention span already.
Thanks for correcting your error Keith
I am happy now.
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« Reply #29416 on: October 07, 2021, 00:17:44 am »

The Charlie Goode sale was not included in that year...... Accounts to year end 30th June 2020....Goode was sold on 19th August 2020. That money will appear in the 2021 accounts. Also set to appear in the 2021 accounts will be the PL grant to EFL clubs (375k minimum plus lost gate revenue share)

What did appear in those accounts for 2020 though was the money (gate and prize and TV revenue) banked from the FA Cup run, which I assume is the sum shown as "other operating income" on page 9, the sum of 483,845 which reduced the operating loss from just under 1.1m to the 570k figure you have already mentioned.

Also shown on page 13 are the player registration costs and income, which I take to be purchases of 114k (the Goode PURCHASE) and sales of 105k (Pierre and Morais), those being the undisclosed transfer dealings in that accounting period.
So I was mistaken. Anyway, it looks like the average is around a million give or take. It doesn't really matter if we are talking about half a million i can't really see a viable way of reducing that whilst appeasing people to address the shortcomings highlighted on here. Having had countless conversations and read we know how many posts on here, no one has come up with anything realistic other than a handout from yet an other investor. It remains a significant challenge to be consistently self sustainable and I honestly can't see how anyone will manage it.
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« Reply #29417 on: October 07, 2021, 00:24:08 am »

Well with the benefit of hindsight, all the board wish they had stood their ground and KT/DB did not take over.
However KT came in making a big play that they had 4m ringfenced to invest in club

How would that have played out if the Trust said, no we scuppered the deal cos they wouldn't let us in the boardroom?

Come on Shoey, stop take the mick, you are confusing people
Now deny that
In fairness random you can look back at the time and youll see that even as the deal was going through I had serious misgivings about the trust giving up a place on the board.
As far as I remember the trust made an executive decision to relinquish their seat without consulting members and the rest is history..
Now Im sure trust members can say that if they hadnt agreed then the club would have folded.
Id have stood firm even if that played out as to give up board representation went against everything the trust stood for.
Id have rather had a Phoenix club to support that still had the original ideology of what the trust was set up for than see the trust board give up their seat.
From that moment on the trust meant nothing to me.
Ever since the trust gave up their seat they have done nothing but moan about the way the club has been run.
Its actually totally irrelevant whether I share those opinions or not.
My opinion is the trust made their decision and have never wanted to own that decision.
Week in/week out they have moaned about this and that but chose to relinquish a place on the current set up.
Now the club have made a decision to allow a trust member to stand for the position they relinquished they have decided not to !!!
Does this mean as fans we can now look forward to yet more years of moaning about the club whilst in a weaker position than ever.
If that makes the trust just as relevant today as when Brian lomax formed it then Im sorry but I fail to believe it for the reasons Ive stated.
The trust want to appear relevant whilst not wanting a place on the board!!
A classic case of wanting your cake and eating it.
Brian Lomax created the first football trust that got fan representation at board level, the trust were the envy of the football world and the blueprint for other clubs the world over to follow.
The later incarnation relinquished that seat and then when given the chance to regain it decided not to.
That is what they will be remembered for whether they like it or not.
The facts are there and they are undeniable.
Why would anyone want to be a member of a football trust who have actually done the opposite of what they were formed for by deciding not to want a place on the board of the club??
They were formed in order to get a place on the board.

When you consider things its actually mind blowing !!!

Are people honestly being asked to pay to join an organisation that do not want a place on the board but still want to claim they represent fans whilst moaning about this and that from the outside looking in??

That must be another first for a football trust.
Heaven only knows what the founder would make of it.
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« Reply #29418 on: October 07, 2021, 00:58:30 am »

GPC You forgot to mention the 5 (FIVE) managers that have been sacked and paid off, never mind the merry-go-round of their players and support staff they all want and need.

Compare that to say Plymouth 2 and Accrington 1. and many many other clubs who have far less than 5.

The other thing we have no idea on is, are there any management / consultancy fees from Florida, Dubai or Off-shore?  We have no idea but as Hammy says, we don't look like we are over spending does it.

There are clubs that make a profit in the lower leagues or losses are small.  

If we had 2000 fans contributing an extra 20 per month = 40k per month = 480k per year, that is a fair amount to more than cover general running losses. That is without factoring in business donations and sponsorship etc




What canvassing and research have you done to establish the appetite and likelihood of success regarding that proposal.
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« Reply #29419 on: October 07, 2021, 01:52:19 am »

Just a quid per column inch from you lot and we could've built the East stand ourselves.

If only "The Trust" (whoever they are or whatever it is) had raised the money for a tangible project such as this, instead of stroking their beards.
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