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Redevelopment Closer Than Ever?

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Author Topic: Redevelopment Closer Than Ever?  (Read 1287018 times)
Shoemaker
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« Reply #29480 on: October 07, 2021, 20:42:58 pm »

I can  Grin

The Trust is as new as you want it to be, why not join? or 'come' to a zoom board meeting?

Fans are not really paying for anything, have you see the joining fee?

We are starting to hold the club to account, did you read the presentation, ?

The Trust have democratically elected members, we are valued by some and some very important people at that.

No Trust board can work with the club at the moment, sorry but as soon as anyone upsets KT thats the end. He is fine when you are not pushing him or holding him to account.

Whose going to start this new supporter group? YOU, Hammy, Evers?Huh? The 2 who put themselves up to be Directors?  

Don't throw the baby out with the bath water

Tell me / the Trust EXACTLY what you want us to do. If it's work with the club, then fine, contact KT / GW / JW and see what response you get.

Agree have one travel club, I totally agree but again, YOU get the 3 parties together and see what happens.

Very easy to sit on here and type you should do this, you should do that, but again with a few active board members, trying to do everything on the cheap, against KT with £6m annually, PR & media staff plus local media if aint easy.

I / We get knocked for too little action, too much, being too aggressive, to being too laid back, for not having plans, for not having support, etc etc.

We don't represent the fans - well sorry but WTF does that actually mean?  

What do the fans actually want that in the short term that the Trust can change or have any say in?  And even then who do we listen to?  You, Hammy, Manwork, Who? someone pro club ? someone anti-club?  you tell me who and how?  

Everyone has different feelings and opinions on every subject.

Some of us are trying to make improvements for YOUR football club. Do you want to keep playing Sutton, Crawley, Stevenage and the like, because I know I don't.

The poll recently on here i posted showed almost no-one wanted League 2 football. We all wanted L1 as a minimum.

Its time for not only the Trust to change (which it is doing but again thats wrong cos some of us are too active)  but all of us fans too, time again to start taking actions, time to thinking bigger thoughts and all working towards making NTFC the club we want.

Trouble is it take effort and upsetting the apple cart a bit - which again some don't like (and some do)


A lot of words there but again not one denial of any of the points I made.
Can you just own the fact that the trust gave up board representation and declined to attempt to regain a place on the board???
If you can’t begin to accept/own that then you will struggle to accept that the trust has now been marginalised.
As regards the fact that the trust doesn’t represent paying members….
Decisions are made by a trust board without consulting the membership…
Can you deny that???
What sort of business that has a paying membership does that??
Your local working men’s club is run better than ntfc trust imo
Maybe ask someone who knows how to put things to the vote as regards membership.

These are all basic principals of asking people to pay membership fees….
If a working men’s club wants to open for longer hours than normal it informs the membership and gives paying members the chance to vote before taking the results to a council meeting.

Ntfc trust give up board representation without informing paying members and then have a fortnight to ask paid up members whether or not one of their board members should consider standing in an attempt to regain a place on the clubs board(the very essence of the trust being formed)

How can they think this is acceptable.
Even more so IF they (and again the royal they)think it is acceptable why have they not resigned en masse as a board??

It is a clique in every sense imo and now anyone who challenges that perception with FACTS is not even given the courtesy of an admission (although in fairness Keith,who may or may not be on the board did admit that the trust gave up board representation)
Do I think less of him??

No I think more of him because he is willing to own the perceived error rather than ignore the issue
Is it any wonder that I see the trust as defunct??

The more trust members post on here without owning previous errors(il help you again just as I did six years ago….failing to attempt to regain a place on the clubs board while purporting to represent the fan base will come back to haunt the trust)
The more the flat denial goes on the more it shows a group of friends attempting to wield power over a fan base whilst neglecting to ask their opinion of a paid membership  at every twist and turn.

The trust are clinging on by their fingernails and anyone who sees this as other than a forfeit of power is frankly misguided.
If they must continue as an entity they imo should still hold car boot sales whilst allowing the fan rep to get on with his job
Representing the fans.
The job the trust was originally set up for….

They could also ask the rep for clarification about the 10k they lent/gave the board that they themselves have failed to address over the last six years.

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« Reply #29481 on: October 07, 2021, 20:49:55 pm »

A lot of words there but again not one denial of any of the points I made.
Can you just own the fact that the trust gave up board representation and declined to attempt to regain a place on the board???
If you can’t begin to accept/own that then you will struggle to accept that the trust has now been marginalised.
As regards the fact that the trust doesn’t represent paying members….
Decisions are made by a trust board without consulting the membership…
Can you deny that???
What sort of business that has a paying membership does that??
Your local working men’s club is run better than ntfc trust imo
Maybe ask someone who knows how to put things to the vote as regards membership.

These are all basic principals of asking people to pay membership fees….
If a working men’s club wants to open for longer hours than normal it informs the membership and gives paying members the chance to vote before taking the results to a council meeting.

Ntfc trust give up board representation without informing paying members and then have a fortnight to ask paid up members whether or not one of their board members should consider standing in an attempt to regain a place on the clubs board(the very essence of the trust being formed)

How can they think this is acceptable.
Even more so IF they (and again the royal they)think it is acceptable why have they not resigned en masse as a board??

It is a clique in every sense imo and now anyone who challenges that perception with FACTS is not even given the courtesy of an admission (although in fairness Keith,who may or may not be on the board did admit that the trust gave up board representation)
Do I think less of him??

No I think more of him because he is willing to own the perceived error rather than ignore the issue
Is it any wonder that I see the trust as defunct??

The more trust members post on here without owning previous errors(il help you again just as I did six years ago….failing to attempt to regain a place on the clubs board while purporting to represent the fan base will come back to haunt the trust)
The more the flat denial goes on the more it shows a group of friends attempting to wield power over a fan base whilst neglecting to ask their opinion of a paid membership  at every twist and turn.

The trust are clinging on by their fingernails and anyone who sees this as other than a forfeit of power is frankly misguided.
If they must continue as an entity they imo should still hold car boot sales whilst allowing the fan rep to get on with his job
Representing the fans.
The job the trust was originally set up for….

They could also ask the rep for clarification about the 10k they lent/gave the board that they themselves have failed to address over the last six years.


I now suggest you are on one big wind up......how about looking at the posts I have made in direct response to yours??
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« Reply #29482 on: October 07, 2021, 21:01:03 pm »

Sorry, ive been off site for a while, any idea when there's any building progress?
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« Reply #29483 on: October 07, 2021, 21:17:43 pm »

Sorry, ive been off site for a while, any idea when there's any building progress?

It’s very hard to say.

Random is in the process of setting up a whip around..

Bagsy the whip….



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« Reply #29484 on: October 07, 2021, 21:19:22 pm »

Trust hat on now......

An article from back in the archives..... points of interest......

Timeline of when Cardoza was in an exclusivity agreement with Kelvin Thomas, mention of other interested parties that Cardoza was also in contact with at the time (KT's was not the only deal on the table, but perhaps the only deal that was on the table that was able to be completed before the court date), the notice that there was a fallback position brokered by the Trust and other local parties/businessmen which was shared with the Council should the takeover not go ahead, and also reference to the £10k hardship fund, and the explicit line that "We should stress that the fund will be repayable to the Trust if and when a takeover is complete, but for now the immediate priority is to support the staff in this desperate situation."

https://www.ntfctrust.co.uk/news/article/10000-set-aside-for-hardship-fund-for-ntfc-staff
Can you explain if the above is true how the trust have failed to
recoup their 10k raised by their members.
This has actually gone on longer than KTs proposed east stand redevelopment.

What efforts have the trust made to recoup this money?
Asked nicely Shocked Huh?

Are the trust actually capable of achieving anything other than division amongst fans and friction with the clubs board??

The fans rep can’t be appointed quickly enough imo and I pray to god he isn’t enticed into joining the trust board (the one which wouldn’t put up a candidate of their own, despite constantly undermining the club and putting up half baked fan ownership opinions without fully consulting the fan base as to how they hoped to achieve this….as of earlier on today a trust member admitted he’d have no idea of the selling price Grin)

Again anyone wish to dispute this (think hard given a trust board member has admitted not canvassing opinion and not having any idea of the selling price)

This trust fan ownership line has been spun on here for months and as of today the trust hasn’t even asked the selling price  Shocked Grin Grin

Again

What are people actually paying trust membership fees for??
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« Reply #29485 on: October 07, 2021, 21:34:50 pm »

Just a quick bit of advise for the trust board…

I’m no sage and really not in a position to offer advice as I readily admit that there are many other forum users on here with far better business acumen than I

But ( and I think even with my limited grasp of  business  acumen I make a valid point here )

When trying to purchase an item , whether it be a Mars bar or a football club , if there is no price tag visible it is always prudent to ask the owner (be it shop keeper or football club owner ) what the price is in order for the transaction to proceed.

Has anyone from the trust thought to ask the club owners what they would need to receive in order to sell the club…

It’s been a few months since the trust first announced their intention to look into fan ownership..

Can they put a timescale upon when they may ask this seemingly innocuous question  Grin Grin Grin

My sincere apologies if they have already advised the fans of the selling price and I readily admit (and for the trusts sake) hope that I have missed this trivial point in the thousands of pages in this thread.

To save me years of my life looking back at the thousands of pages would it be possible for one of the trust board to make the selling price available to the fan base and state when this price was advised

Ta
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« Reply #29486 on: October 07, 2021, 21:42:13 pm »

Anyone wish to agree or disagree with this stance? Just so I can see what the "majority" think.......(the majority of posters on here that is!)
Disagree. IMO it needs a few tweaks in how it interacts with its membership and how it makes decisions, nothing more. The entire membership should be given the opportunity to vote for board members and stand in opposition. If people don’t respond or stand then they can hardly complain can they. Any major decision should be endorsed by the membership. Who decides what is major, the membership. They will tell you, put what is on the agenda out there and set a response parameter that instigates a vote. If no one or insufficient people respond then again people can hardly complain. Do that then 2 things happen, firstly your democratic process is significantly enhanced and secondly all of this goes away, all of it. You may have to relinquish a little power and control over your decision making process, but which do you prefer? It’s either something along those lines or remain vulnerable to continued attack. I believe it’s also quite difficult to come up with a convincing reason why you wouldn’t embrace a process along those lines and then claim to be completely open and democratic.
« Last Edit: October 07, 2021, 21:57:19 pm by Melbourne Cobbler » Report Spam   Logged

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« Reply #29487 on: October 07, 2021, 21:42:27 pm »

I’m sorry to keep posting but as an aside Newcastle Utd have been purchased for 300 million pounds today
Given they have a fantastic 50,000 + stadium that they own and a playing staff worth millions with the added attraction of premiership football , am I mad in thinking that it sounds a good deal given that if the current board wouldn’t write off the debt they have accrued during their tenure then £7million plus seems a lot for a club that doesn’t own its own ground, rents training facilities and has sold off part of its away car park.
The bright point being we have a squad worth £743.27 (although this doesn’t include the monies we can recoup from our fabulous attacking options ) Grin Grin Grin

Maybe Mike Ashley can buy us. Shocked
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« Reply #29488 on: October 07, 2021, 21:43:07 pm »

Your last two posts puzzle me.....the Trust do not want to buy the club so why would they be asking for a price?
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« Reply #29489 on: October 07, 2021, 21:47:18 pm »

The thing to do is to disband the trust because as I’ve put forward it is no longer fit for purpose.
Any members of course should be free to post on here but the trust is obsolete.
A football club trust that no longer wish to have board representation…..
A new way forward is needed.
Anyone who thinks the trust is still fit for purpose given the face that it no longer wishes to have board representation, which is the whole point of its foundation is welcome to debate(or push water uphill) as much as they wish.
Who actually cares what they THINK
The fact is they are about to be superseded by someone who will actually KNOW.

How hard is that to understand.


There is no point having representation on a board which doesn't have meetings and which refuses to share any plans beyond very old pictures of a project they've had six years to complete and not touched.

I sincerely hope the fan rep does KNOW, but we'll see.  

A Trust board member would not be independent.  It would not be appropriate for one of us to stand, but the Trust will of course try to work with whoever wins the election.  We have a website, 12 volunteers, an email address, regular meetings and many ways to feed back and help them with what could be a very lonely job - depending how much they challenge the board, of course.

Unlike a lot of people on here and elsewhere, the Trust doesn't just make things up - David Bower is a lawyer and nothing the Trust has said has been challenged legally.  It is just twisted by the club, often with help from a few of the same people, and/or completely avoided.

The Trust has tried very hard to work with the current board but needs something to work towards, not vague words which some fans seem to lap up despite nothing having happened for a long time.

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« Reply #29490 on: October 07, 2021, 21:50:59 pm »


With regards to the seat on the board, with hindsight at the time if the Board had have stated “we unfortunately have to reluctantly relinquish our seat on the board to save the club” I think they would be well and truly in the clear. Either way to be fair if it really was a deal breaker then I don’t think anyone can reasonably have a problem with it.
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« Reply #29491 on: October 07, 2021, 21:52:15 pm »

Your last two posts puzzle me.....the Trust do not want to buy the club so why would they be asking for a price?
Apologies I’m off to bed and have been eating cheese.

I dreamt that the trust had been looking into fan ownership (this would need fans)
I also dreamt they held an open meeting where flyers were given out that other posters on here had described at the time were amateurish and embarrassing.

If that didn’t happen I apologise profusely

If I’m right then it’s not a stretch to implement my above posts in order to find out a selling price.

Can anyone else remember this turn of events?
Did it actually occur?
Have I eaten to much cheese?
Am I in a alternate universe?

Am I valiant Thor?

TIA
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« Reply #29492 on: October 07, 2021, 22:28:46 pm »

Apologies I’m off to bed and have been eating cheese.

I dreamt that the trust had been looking into fan ownership (this would need fans)
I also dreamt they held an open meeting where flyers were given out that other posters on here had described at the time were amateurish and embarrassing.

If that didn’t happen I apologise profusely

If I’m right then it’s not a stretch to implement my above posts in order to find out a selling price.

Can anyone else remember this turn of events?
Did it actually occur?
Have I eaten to much cheese?
Am I in a alternate universe?

Am I valiant Thor?

TIA


The Trust were looking at potential fan ownership models, be that 100% or 50+1. The Trust have held meetings with various other cubs (Blackpool, Exeter, Swindon, Accrington spring to mind immediately) to discuss fan ownership schemes or at least fan involvement in the running of said clubs and to gain information from those clubs as to what works, what doesn't work and to learn from their experiences.

As for the open meeting.....I think that cheese is a bit mouldy now. There is fresher cheese about, the sort that has said time and time again that THE TRUST HAVE NO AMBITION TO PURCHASE/TAKEOVER/RUN THE FOOTBALL CLUB OUTRIGHT however they still looked into that type of model as a short term contingency should any disaster befall our club again.
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« Reply #29493 on: October 07, 2021, 22:29:51 pm »

Disagree. IMO it needs a few tweaks in how it interacts with its membership and how it makes decisions, nothing more. The entire membership should be given the opportunity to vote for board members and stand in opposition. If people don’t respond or stand then they can hardly complain can they. Any major decision should be endorsed by the membership. Who decides what is major, the membership. They will tell you, put what is on the agenda out there and set a response parameter that instigates a vote. If no one or insufficient people respond then again people can hardly complain. Do that then 2 things happen, firstly your democratic process is significantly enhanced and secondly all of this goes away, all of it. You may have to relinquish a little power and control over your decision making process, but which do you prefer? It’s either something along those lines or remain vulnerable to continued attack. I believe it’s also quite difficult to come up with a convincing reason why you wouldn’t embrace a process along those lines and then claim to be completely open and democratic.

Excellent post and duly noted and agreed with...thanks Melly.
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« Reply #29494 on: October 07, 2021, 22:39:35 pm »

Excellent post and duly noted and agreed with...thanks Melly.
Trust or personal hat on?
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« Reply #29495 on: October 07, 2021, 22:50:47 pm »

With regards to the seat on the board, with hindsight at the time if the Board had have stated “we unfortunately have to reluctantly relinquish our seat on the board to save the club” I think they would be well and truly in the clear. Either way to be fair if it really was a deal breaker then I don’t think anyone can reasonably have a problem with it.
Things were changing on a hourly basis when the takeover happened, The main concern for the Trust and NBC was to keep the Cobblers alive, so we had little time to put out many statements . The piece about it being a deal breaker is 100% true, KT was initially walking away when he thought he would be left with the debt to NBC, as would any potential buyer. The Trust then brokered a deal with NBC involving NBC getting land for the debt and a day or so later NBC asked if the Trust would be OK with the deal being used with another purchaser. The Trust and NBC were looking for whatever was the best deal for NTFC and that turned out to be the deal we brokered being used by KT & DB as they had proved to NBC that they had the cash to finish the East stand. We had a meeting with KT and that is when he told us the the seat on the board would be a deal breaker but added "With David in Dubai and me in the USA we don't have board meetings as such, we have the occasional 3 way phone call"
     We could have stood our ground, there were other interested buyers, but time was of the essence, with the Court appearance coming up in days and NBC wanted to go with KT & DB, so we did what we thought was best for NTFC.
     Sorry if that wasn't good enough for some people, but I can sleep soundly knowing I actually did something to help save my club, actions always speak louder than words.
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« Reply #29496 on: October 07, 2021, 22:57:44 pm »

The Trust were absolutely right to give up their seat on the board given the circumstances at the time. Could you imagine the fallout if they'd refused and the rescue deal had fallen through?
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« Reply #29497 on: October 07, 2021, 23:10:04 pm »

Trust or personal hat on?

Two hats on at the same time!  Grin
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« Reply #29498 on: October 07, 2021, 23:33:54 pm »

Two hats on at the same time!  Grin
Brilliant, great news. If you need some input or suggestions I am happy to get involved. With my member hat on obviously.
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« Reply #29499 on: October 08, 2021, 00:14:46 am »

Anyone wish to agree or disagree with this stance? Just so I can see what the "majority" think.......(the majority of posters on here that is!)

I have to admit I found the fact that the trust did not put forward a candidate for the election thingy a tad disconcerting and it does make me wonder about their claim to represent the supporters.
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