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Redevelopment Closer Than Ever?

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Author Topic: Redevelopment Closer Than Ever?  (Read 1453041 times)
guest168
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« Reply #29540 on: October 12, 2021, 21:09:05 pm »

They might be your voice Manwork, but the Trust are certainly not my voice.

Is anyone your voice Tcobb or are you just irrelevant?
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GrangeParkCobbler
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« Reply #29541 on: October 12, 2021, 21:13:00 pm »

Genuine question here folks.....merging two recent themes into one question.....

If the Trust gave the money (and potentially a larger share of the money) to the new HE project and it was resurrected, and then it formed part of a possible infrastructure foundation going forward..... how many on here stand by their claims that they would not give a penny to anything that was Trust led/backed?

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« Reply #29542 on: October 12, 2021, 21:19:36 pm »

There you go Random, with idiotic people like you on the Trust board you sum up why people dont want the Trust as their voice.

Grange Park, see above as to why any Trust back project would not get a penny from me.
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« Reply #29543 on: October 12, 2021, 21:23:59 pm »

I on the other hand would only donate if the Trust were behind any such foundation.
Individual personalities don't overly interest me.
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« Reply #29544 on: October 12, 2021, 21:32:07 pm »

Genuine question here folks.....merging two recent themes into one question.....

If the Trust gave the money (and potentially a larger share of the money) to the new HE project and it was resurrected, and then it formed part of a possible infrastructure foundation going forward..... how many on here stand by their claims that they would not give a penny to anything that was Trust led/backed?



My views on this have nothing to do with the Trust.  It doesn't matter to me if a fundraising scheme was run by the Trust, the club or a third party, unless it was to save the club in the event of a financial disaster then I wouldn't contribute to it.

In my view they are a business and need to stand on their own two feet.
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« Reply #29545 on: October 12, 2021, 21:49:36 pm »

They might be your voice Manwork, but the Trust are certainly not my voice.
And thatís entirely your choice mate, but I would say we donít have any other recognised fan organisation.
I donít agree with everything they do either but on the terrible land deal the owners are trying to get the council to go for Iím right behind them.
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« Reply #29546 on: October 12, 2021, 21:57:46 pm »

Yes, but are you blaming them or simply explaining why the HE initiative hasn't progressed?BOTH
Do you think the Trust board deliberately withdrew their backing of the east stand so that the new HE north stand couldn't go ahead.NO
I don't think you are but its coming across like that, you see.YOU ARE RIGHT I'M NOT SAYING THAT

Answers in red above.

As for your following post who are these other alternative supporters groups, plural, that are dependent on the Trust?  I don't think the New Hotel End Project were.  As Keith clarified earlier they sought the Trusts backing/support which was absoloutely the right thing to do but other than a financial contribution they had no other input at that stage.  Maybe dependence was the wrong word to use?  Partnership/support?

As for praise I saw plenty of people including myself praise the Trust for backing this project.  As I said at the time it, I was pleased they backed it and it was exactly the type of project they should be getting fully behind.  See Drillings post earlier today as he put it brilliantly regarding answering a lot of questions and demonstrating an ability to create, manage, fund and deliver a fan led project.
« Last Edit: October 12, 2021, 22:06:27 pm by MCHammer » Report Spam   Logged
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« Reply #29547 on: October 12, 2021, 21:59:39 pm »

The owners ended the relationship by refusing to answer questions THEY asked for and the led a shameless campaign to undermine the one true voice of Northampton fans THE TRUST.
Like most things our owners do itís turning out to be another spectacular disaster for them.

Did you cut and paste that from the latest Trust latest press release.   Grin Grin

You need to be careful.  Keep talking like that and before you know it you'll be on a Zoom call and co-opted on to the board.
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« Reply #29548 on: October 12, 2021, 22:28:03 pm »

Did you cut and paste that from the latest Trust latest press release.   Grin Grin

You need to be careful.  Keep talking like that and before you know it you'll be on a Zoom call and co-opted on to the board.
I wondered what that penny was doing in the bottom of my pint?
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« Reply #29549 on: October 12, 2021, 22:31:14 pm »

Genuine question here folks.....merging two recent themes into one question.....

If the Trust gave the money (and potentially a larger share of the money) to the new HE project and it was resurrected, and then it formed part of a possible infrastructure foundation going forward..... how many on here stand by their claims that they would not give a penny to anything that was Trust led/backed?

Sadly isn't it a bit of a pointless question as the situation since the project got shelved hasn't exactly improved.  After all isn't the whole idea of an Infrastructure Foundation kind of reliant on a decent relationship existing between all parties?

This is what I couldn't really get my head around when I read the Trust presentation to the Council.  It spent page upon page saying how badly the club is run, how shady our owners are, how poor the deal was and that they can't be trusted.  It then went on to suggest that despite all that we all work together as a TEAM (Together, Everyone, Achieves, More).  That the council should give these shady, untrustworthy owners a deal.  Part of which would form an Infrastructure Foundation which had no detail and I assume requires either the support of the current owners or brand new owners as you will be working on infrastructure they own/own the leashehold to.
« Last Edit: October 13, 2021, 00:04:21 am by MCHammer » Report Spam   Logged
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« Reply #29550 on: October 12, 2021, 23:23:34 pm »

Sadly isn't it a bit of a pointless question as the situation since the project got shelved hasn't exactly improved.  After all isn't the whole idea of an Infrastructure Foundation kind of reliant on a decent relationship existing between all parties?

This is what I couldn't really get my head around when I read the Trust presentation to the Council.  It spent page upon page saying how badly the club is run, how shady our owners are, how poor the deal was and that they can't be trusted.  It then went on to suggest that despite all that we all work together as a TEAM (Together, We, Achieve, More).  That the council should give these shady, untrustworthy owners a deal.  Part of which would form an Infrastructure Foundation which had no detail and I assume requires either the support of the current owners or brand new owners as you will be working on infrastructure they own/own the leashehold to.
WTF do you want them to tell the council? The time for pleasantries was over, our owners are fully on the exit ramp and couldnít give a damn about the football club.
They want to take as much money out as possible, the gloves are off.
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« Reply #29551 on: October 13, 2021, 08:11:45 am »

Genuine question here folks.....merging two recent themes into one question.....

If the Trust gave the money (and potentially a larger share of the money) to the new HE project and it was resurrected, and then it formed part of a possible infrastructure foundation going forward..... how many on here stand by their claims that they would not give a penny to anything that was Trust led/backed?


I wouldnít because the trust have proved before that they arenít very good at deciding whether they have given or loaned people money.
After six years the trust are still claiming they are owed £10,000 by the owners but havenít mentioned why after  six years they have been unable to recoup it for their members.

That level of incompetence would count me out of being involved with anything the trust did that involved them handling large amounts of money.

Explain to your members what actually happened with the £10,000 lent/given to the club.

1) there should have been something in writing regards the transaction and if so there would be no issue whatsoever in claiming it back.
2) after six years of not claiming it back the inference (rightly or wrongly) is that this wasnít the case which would show a great level of incompetence on the trusts part.

I think itís a bit of a cheek for the trust to want to get into another financial situation without first explaining to their membership what has happened regards their missing £10,000 from trust funds that they repeatedly mention.

Anyone from the trust like to explain the process of the club gaining £10,000 from trust funds and what measures/safeguards were in place for its return??
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« Reply #29552 on: October 13, 2021, 08:46:55 am »

I wouldnít because the trust have proved before that they arenít very good at deciding whether they have given or loaned people money.
After six years the trust are still claiming they are owed £10,000 by the owners but havenít mentioned why after  six years they have been unable to recoup it for their members.

That level of incompetence would count me out of being involved with anything the trust did that involved them handling large amounts of money.

Explain to your members what actually happened with the £10,000 lent/given to the club.

1) there should have been something in writing regards the transaction and if so there would be no issue whatsoever in claiming it back.
2) after six years of not claiming it back the inference (rightly or wrongly) is that this wasnít the case which would show a great level of incompetence on the trusts part.

I think itís a bit of a cheek for the trust to want to get into another financial situation without first explaining to their membership what has happened regards their missing £10,000 from trust funds that they repeatedly mention.

Anyone from the trust like to explain the process of the club gaining £10,000 from trust funds and what measures/safeguards were in place for its return??

I remember going to the Coventry game thinking it could be the last ever as the club was on the brink. There was interest but although the players were being paid by their union, the staff were not and the staff were not exactly well paid. Now I am not sure exactly how it was arranged but the Trust paid the staff out of the 10k to keep them going and at the time I believe the favourites to purchase the club agreed to pay it back if they were successful. This was reported in the press. There certainly wouldn't have been time to draw up a legal document to guarantee in law but who cares? The staff were paid, that is the important thing. The money was never repaid and I imagine the Trust would not have wanted to sue a brand new owner at that time and in any case it would have cost a fair bundle knowing the legal profession.
If you are going to forever resent that organisation for not getting the money back in the circumstances in which it was paid then you need to look in the mirror, have a word with yourself and then sit down, take a deep breath and troll the internet for a new place to live where noone else does.
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« Reply #29553 on: October 13, 2021, 08:58:39 am »

Answers in red above.

As for your following post who are these other alternative supporters groups, plural, that are dependent on the Trust?  I don't think the New Hotel End Project were.  As Keith clarified earlier they sought the Trusts backing/support which was absoloutely the right thing to do but other than a financial contribution they had no other input at that stage.  Maybe dependence was the wrong word to use?  Partnership/support?
You used the phrase 'main supporters group' when describing the Trust yesterday in your post @18.56 and now you're asking me what the other groups are? I don't know McH, besides the HE I believe there's a supporters page on Facebook so there's two for starters. What about the travel groups that don't align themselves to the Trust, do they count as independent supporters groups?
'They (HE) sought the club's backing/support'. Yet you don't believe that action constitutes any form of dependency and you'd rather relationship described as supportive or a partnership.
OK, I'll rephrase my post.
It makes you realise how much these other groups seek to rely on the support of the Trust, (in going cap in hand to them), and how much criticism the Trust still receive from some inspite of responding positively to a request like that.
Thanks for your answers in red.
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« Reply #29554 on: October 13, 2021, 09:18:41 am »

They want to take as much money out as possible, the gloves are off.

Hi Manny. I've kept myself out of this one for a while but this is a point I always feel compelled to challenge...

I won't go over the numbers again - we've done that to death - but I think most on here broadly accept that in a best-case scenario (from their point of view) our current owners are somewhere near break-even on their investment in NTFC to date. In the worst-case (in my view, more plausible) scenario, they are in a £6-7m hole. After the next set of accounts are published I'd expect both scenarios to look c.£1m worse. Either way, any money they 'take out' will be off the back of a substantial further investment in the ground that they will need fund themselves.

This is not me supporting the owners or bashing the Trust. I just think we ought to keep things factual, especially if your aim is to take people with you.
« Last Edit: October 13, 2021, 09:20:22 am by claretparrot » Report Spam   Logged
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« Reply #29555 on: October 13, 2021, 09:28:36 am »

I remember going to the Coventry game thinking it could be the last ever as the club was on the brink. There was interest but although the players were being paid by their union, the staff were not and the staff were not exactly well paid. Now I am not sure exactly how it was arranged but the Trust paid the staff out of the 10k to keep them going and at the time I believe the favourites to purchase the club agreed to pay it back if they were successful. This was reported in the press. There certainly wouldn't have been time to draw up a legal document to guarantee in law but who cares? The staff were paid, that is the important thing. The money was never repaid and I imagine the Trust would not have wanted to sue a brand new owner at that time and in any case it would have cost a fair bundle knowing the legal profession.
If you are going to forever resent that organisation for not getting the money back in the circumstances in which it was paid then you need to look in the mirror, have a word with yourself and then sit down, take a deep breath and troll the internet for a new place to live where noone else does.
Wind your neck in.

Itís the trust who keep bringing up the £10,000 fiasco
Iím just responding to the fact that the trust keep mentioning it.
You can go back through threads to confirm that the trust keep bringing the situation up if you wish.

Weíre you on the trust board at the time?
If not how would you have any idea of timescales??

As for not having time to do thingsÖ
This is a usual response from the trust at every twist and turn.

It would take five minutes flat to draw up a legal document stating whether money is gifted or lent.
That isnít legal eagle stuff!!
Was no one on the board at the time intelligent enough to realise that this clarity was needed??
They should have been given what the club had just been through.

In the same way the trust point out that the club havenít delivered on their £4m redevelopment promise (was that ever in writing?) and constantly bring up the perceived failings of the clubs owners and keep banging on about unanswered questions , all I am doing is highlighting that the trust are acting in the same way.
Six years on no one has explained what actually went on with the 10k and what protocols were followed.

The trust seem very good at scrutinising others but are unable to answer extremely simple questions when faced with them themselves.

Are you suggesting from a position from within the trust that the 10k was given to the club on no more than a verbal agreement as that is what you seem to be insinuating with your pushed for time theory.

If not and you were not on the trust board at the time and therefore wouldnít actually know any more than other posters would someone from the trust please step up and answer the question once and for all (preferably someone who was making the decisions at the time however uncomfortable that may be).

Once that has been put to bed the trust will be in a better position to scrutinise the redevelopment or the Chinese investment or fan ownership or whatever scheme they think of next.

Tidy up your own desk and explain what actually occurred regards the 10k , who were the trust board members who decided to pass the money on and what protocols were in place.



Thankyou.
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« Reply #29556 on: October 13, 2021, 09:37:26 am »

Genuine question here folks.....merging two recent themes into one question.....

If the Trust gave the money (and potentially a larger share of the money) to the new HE project and it was resurrected, and then it formed part of a possible infrastructure foundation going forward..... how many on here stand by their claims that they would not give a penny to anything that was Trust led/backed?

As i've said before I would donate to anything tangible that will improve the club / fan experience. I dont care if its led by the club, the Trust, the NHE or anyone else.
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« Reply #29557 on: October 13, 2021, 10:42:47 am »

Hi Manny. I've kept myself out of this one for a while but this is a point I always feel compelled to challenge...

I won't go over the numbers again - we've done that to death - but I think most on here broadly accept that in a best-case scenario (from their point of view) our current owners are somewhere near break-even on their investment in NTFC to date. In the worst-case (in my view, more plausible) scenario, they are in a £6-7m hole. After the next set of accounts are published I'd expect both scenarios to look c.£1m worse. Either way, any money they 'take out' will be off the back of a substantial further investment in the ground that they will need fund themselves.

This is not me supporting the owners or bashing the Trust. I just think we ought to keep things factual, especially if your aim is to take people with you.
Hi CP, thanks for your response, I take on board what you have said mate, but wasnít it KT and DB who said they had the money to finish the east stand, £4m ring fenced?
There is no way DB would be still involved if he was £7m down, I think the truth is something in the middle.
What I do know is that time is moving on and DB is not a young man, he will want a return very soon and KT is definitely not the right man to broker this deal, heís rubbed too many decision makers up the wrong way.
If I was DB Iíd bring in an independent company to broker a deal and take the emotions out of it.
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« Reply #29558 on: October 13, 2021, 11:01:42 am »

There you go Random, with idiotic people like you on the Trust board you sum up why people dont want the Trust as their voice.

Grange Park, see above as to why any Trust back project would not get a penny from me.

Always abuse - I asked you a simple question who does represent you after you stated it was not the Trust, thats all
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« Reply #29559 on: October 13, 2021, 11:18:06 am »

Hi Manny. I've kept myself out of this one for a while but this is a point I always feel compelled to challenge...

I won't go over the numbers again - we've done that to death - but I think most on here broadly accept that in a best-case scenario (from their point of view) our current owners are somewhere near break-even on their investment in NTFC to date. In the worst-case (in my view, more plausible) scenario, they are in a £6-7m hole. After the next set of accounts are published I'd expect both scenarios to look c.£1m worse. Either way, any money they 'take out' will be off the back of a substantial further investment in the ground that they will need fund themselves.

This is not me supporting the owners or bashing the Trust. I just think we ought to keep things factual, especially if your aim is to take people with you.

Hi Parrot, may I ask nicely why you say about keeping things factual but have said, I assume, that you don't believe the Chinese money happened.

Trouble is that as unbelievable as it is, it did happen.

The Chinese money and deal did go ahead, payments were made and received. Yes to me it doesn't make sense and I assume (as you say it's not plausible that it did) neither do you, which draws a conclusion of some sort of dodgy deal.

Having said that, deals that don't make sense to happen every day.

Why would someone, with no business history, suddenly pay £6.68m for a business that the owners had paid £1 and £166k debt for 2 years earlier. Yes there was some other investment but only £1m or so. On top of that, part of the deal is you agree to put in further funds. This bit didn't happen, so they agree a £1m loan to the business with the sellers.

This questionable very term loan was to be paid back in a few weeks otherwise you default and lose all your shares in that business. (as it was put up as security)

Totally agree with you that it's more plausible that it didn't happen. BUT IT DID !!!
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