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Redevelopment Closer Than Ever?

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Author Topic: Redevelopment Closer Than Ever?  (Read 1319789 times)
MCHammer
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« Reply #29620 on: October 12, 2021, 18:54:50 pm »

So McH, if you aren't in any way blaming the Trust, why did you mention them in the first place?

I am blaming the Supporters Trust Board.  Go back and read my original post.

As I made clear the Supporters Trust Board (note the distinction here between board and membership) withdrew support for the East Stand Development deal.  This was done two days before the club were due to present plans at their open day. 

Meanwhile you have supporter led New Hotel End Project (backed by the Trust NOTE THERE'S A CLEAR DIFFERENCE BETWEEN BACKED AND LED OR INITIATED FOR THE HARD OF READING) had been gaining some publicity and traction and was even positively mentioned by the club in the info released on it's open day.  Both the club and the project leaders had publicly said there had been positive discussions and would work together to ensure both projects could compliment each other.

The Trust Board withdrawal of their backing inevitably signalled the end of the relationship between Club and Trust.  Some back and forth with open letters from staff and Trust and hey presto relationship not only dead but well and truly buried.

New Hotel End Project announce in that environment and with the relationship between Trust and Club as it is they were shelving plans.

You'd have to ask them why the didn't just press on regardless but think about this logically.  The main partners in this project would have been the supporters and the club.  How can that project progress in an enviromment where the main supporters representative group, who as I mentioned are backing this project verbally and financially, and the club don't even have a relationship.

A final point and here's what I find most interesting with what has happened with this discussion and maybe why people need to address their own critical thinking about what they get told (Woody and Deepcut excluded).  I make a post blaming the Trust based on a factual sequence of events that actually occurred and get misquoted, misrepresented, called a liar, trust hater etc.  Where were all these questions when a RUMOUR is posted and starts to be presented as fact essentially saying KT killed the project when he wouldn't stump up £900?
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« Reply #29621 on: October 12, 2021, 19:46:33 pm »

I am blaming the Supporters Trust Board.  Go back and read my original post.

As I made clear the Supporters Trust Board (note the distinction here between board and membership) withdrew support for the East Stand Development deal.  This was done two days before the club were due to present plans at their open day. 

Meanwhile you have supporter led New Hotel End Project (backed by the Trust NOTE THERE'S A CLEAR DIFFERENCE BETWEEN BACKED AND LED OR INITIATED FOR THE HARD OF READING) had been gaining some publicity and traction and was even positively mentioned by the club in the info released on it's open day.  Both the club and the project leaders had publicly said there had been positive discussions and would work together to ensure both projects could compliment each other.

The Trust Board withdrawal of their backing inevitably signalled the end of the relationship between Club and Trust.  Some back and forth with open letters from staff and Trust and hey presto relationship not only dead but well and truly buried.

New Hotel End Project announce in that environment and with the relationship between Trust and Club as it is they were shelving plans.

You'd have to ask them why the didn't just press on regardless but think about this logically.  The main partners in this project would have been the supporters and the club.  How can that project progress in an enviromment where the main supporters representative group, who as I mentioned are backing this project verbally and financially, and the club don't even have a relationship.

A final point and here's what I find most interesting with what has happened with this discussion and maybe why people need to address their own critical thinking about what they get told (Woody and Deepcut excluded).  I make a post blaming the Trust based on a factual sequence of events that actually occurred and get misquoted, misrepresented, called a liar, trust hater etc.  Where were all these questions when a RUMOUR is posted and starts to be presented as fact essentially saying KT killed the project when he wouldn't stump up £900?
Yes, but are you blaming them or simply explaining why the HE initiative hasn't progressed?
Do you think the Trust board deliberately withdrew their backing of the east stand so that the new HE north stand couldn't go ahead.
I don't think you are but its coming across like that, you see.
 
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« Reply #29622 on: October 12, 2021, 19:49:51 pm »

Also makes you realise how dependant these alternative supporters groups are on the Trust and how little thanks they get for their support.
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Manwork04
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« Reply #29623 on: October 12, 2021, 20:03:06 pm »

I am blaming the Supporters Trust Board.  Go back and read my original post.

As I made clear the Supporters Trust Board (note the distinction here between board and membership) withdrew support for the East Stand Development deal.  This was done two days before the club were due to present plans at their open day. 

Meanwhile you have supporter led New Hotel End Project (backed by the Trust NOTE THERE'S A CLEAR DIFFERENCE BETWEEN BACKED AND LED OR INITIATED FOR THE HARD OF READING) had been gaining some publicity and traction and was even positively mentioned by the club in the info released on it's open day.  Both the club and the project leaders had publicly said there had been positive discussions and would work together to ensure both projects could compliment each other.

The Trust Board withdrawal of their backing inevitably signalled the end of the relationship between Club and Trust.  Some back and forth with open letters from staff and Trust and hey presto relationship not only dead but well and truly buried.

New Hotel End Project announce in that environment and with the relationship between Trust and Club as it is they were shelving plans.

You'd have to ask them why the didn't just press on regardless but think about this logically.  The main partners in this project would have been the supporters and the club.  How can that project progress in an enviromment where the main supporters representative group, who as I mentioned are backing this project verbally and financially, and the club don't even have a relationship.

A final point and here's what I find most interesting with what has happened with this discussion and maybe why people need to address their own critical thinking about what they get told (Woody and Deepcut excluded).  I make a post blaming the Trust based on a factual sequence of events that actually occurred and get misquoted, misrepresented, called a liar, trust hater etc.  Where were all these questions when a RUMOUR is posted and starts to be presented as fact essentially saying KT killed the project when he wouldn't stump up £900?
The owners ended the relationship by refusing to answer questions THEY asked for and the led a shameless campaign to undermine the one true voice of Northampton fans THE TRUST.
Like most things our owners do itís turning out to be another spectacular disaster for them.
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« Reply #29624 on: October 12, 2021, 20:48:22 pm »

They might be your voice Manwork, but the Trust are certainly not my voice.
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« Reply #29625 on: October 12, 2021, 20:57:48 pm »

The owners ended the relationship by refusing to answer questions THEY asked for and the led a shameless campaign to undermine the one true voice of Northampton fans THE TRUST.
Like most things our owners do itís turning out to be another spectacular disaster for them.
The owners ended the relationship the day they took over, the trust were aware and obliged.

That much IS fact and has been acknowledged by both parties.
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« Reply #29626 on: October 12, 2021, 21:09:05 pm »

They might be your voice Manwork, but the Trust are certainly not my voice.

Is anyone your voice Tcobb or are you just irrelevant?
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« Reply #29627 on: October 12, 2021, 21:13:00 pm »

Genuine question here folks.....merging two recent themes into one question.....

If the Trust gave the money (and potentially a larger share of the money) to the new HE project and it was resurrected, and then it formed part of a possible infrastructure foundation going forward..... how many on here stand by their claims that they would not give a penny to anything that was Trust led/backed?

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tcobb
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« Reply #29628 on: October 12, 2021, 21:19:36 pm »

There you go Random, with idiotic people like you on the Trust board you sum up why people dont want the Trust as their voice.

Grange Park, see above as to why any Trust back project would not get a penny from me.
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« Reply #29629 on: October 12, 2021, 21:23:59 pm »

I on the other hand would only donate if the Trust were behind any such foundation.
Individual personalities don't overly interest me.
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« Reply #29630 on: October 12, 2021, 21:32:07 pm »

Genuine question here folks.....merging two recent themes into one question.....

If the Trust gave the money (and potentially a larger share of the money) to the new HE project and it was resurrected, and then it formed part of a possible infrastructure foundation going forward..... how many on here stand by their claims that they would not give a penny to anything that was Trust led/backed?



My views on this have nothing to do with the Trust.  It doesn't matter to me if a fundraising scheme was run by the Trust, the club or a third party, unless it was to save the club in the event of a financial disaster then I wouldn't contribute to it.

In my view they are a business and need to stand on their own two feet.
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« Reply #29631 on: October 12, 2021, 21:49:36 pm »

They might be your voice Manwork, but the Trust are certainly not my voice.
And thatís entirely your choice mate, but I would say we donít have any other recognised fan organisation.
I donít agree with everything they do either but on the terrible land deal the owners are trying to get the council to go for Iím right behind them.
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« Reply #29632 on: October 12, 2021, 21:57:46 pm »

Yes, but are you blaming them or simply explaining why the HE initiative hasn't progressed?BOTH
Do you think the Trust board deliberately withdrew their backing of the east stand so that the new HE north stand couldn't go ahead.NO
I don't think you are but its coming across like that, you see.YOU ARE RIGHT I'M NOT SAYING THAT

Answers in red above.

As for your following post who are these other alternative supporters groups, plural, that are dependent on the Trust?  I don't think the New Hotel End Project were.  As Keith clarified earlier they sought the Trusts backing/support which was absoloutely the right thing to do but other than a financial contribution they had no other input at that stage.  Maybe dependence was the wrong word to use?  Partnership/support?

As for praise I saw plenty of people including myself praise the Trust for backing this project.  As I said at the time it, I was pleased they backed it and it was exactly the type of project they should be getting fully behind.  See Drillings post earlier today as he put it brilliantly regarding answering a lot of questions and demonstrating an ability to create, manage, fund and deliver a fan led project.
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MCHammer
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« Reply #29633 on: October 12, 2021, 21:59:39 pm »

The owners ended the relationship by refusing to answer questions THEY asked for and the led a shameless campaign to undermine the one true voice of Northampton fans THE TRUST.
Like most things our owners do itís turning out to be another spectacular disaster for them.

Did you cut and paste that from the latest Trust latest press release.   Grin Grin

You need to be careful.  Keep talking like that and before you know it you'll be on a Zoom call and co-opted on to the board.
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Manwork04
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« Reply #29634 on: October 12, 2021, 22:28:03 pm »

Did you cut and paste that from the latest Trust latest press release.   Grin Grin

You need to be careful.  Keep talking like that and before you know it you'll be on a Zoom call and co-opted on to the board.
I wondered what that penny was doing in the bottom of my pint?
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MCHammer
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« Reply #29635 on: October 12, 2021, 22:31:14 pm »

Genuine question here folks.....merging two recent themes into one question.....

If the Trust gave the money (and potentially a larger share of the money) to the new HE project and it was resurrected, and then it formed part of a possible infrastructure foundation going forward..... how many on here stand by their claims that they would not give a penny to anything that was Trust led/backed?

Sadly isn't it a bit of a pointless question as the situation since the project got shelved hasn't exactly improved.  After all isn't the whole idea of an Infrastructure Foundation kind of reliant on a decent relationship existing between all parties?

This is what I couldn't really get my head around when I read the Trust presentation to the Council.  It spent page upon page saying how badly the club is run, how shady our owners are, how poor the deal was and that they can't be trusted.  It then went on to suggest that despite all that we all work together as a TEAM (Together, Everyone, Achieves, More).  That the council should give these shady, untrustworthy owners a deal.  Part of which would form an Infrastructure Foundation which had no detail and I assume requires either the support of the current owners or brand new owners as you will be working on infrastructure they own/own the leashehold to.
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Manwork04
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« Reply #29636 on: October 12, 2021, 23:23:34 pm »

Sadly isn't it a bit of a pointless question as the situation since the project got shelved hasn't exactly improved.  After all isn't the whole idea of an Infrastructure Foundation kind of reliant on a decent relationship existing between all parties?

This is what I couldn't really get my head around when I read the Trust presentation to the Council.  It spent page upon page saying how badly the club is run, how shady our owners are, how poor the deal was and that they can't be trusted.  It then went on to suggest that despite all that we all work together as a TEAM (Together, We, Achieve, More).  That the council should give these shady, untrustworthy owners a deal.  Part of which would form an Infrastructure Foundation which had no detail and I assume requires either the support of the current owners or brand new owners as you will be working on infrastructure they own/own the leashehold to.
WTF do you want them to tell the council? The time for pleasantries was over, our owners are fully on the exit ramp and couldnít give a damn about the football club.
They want to take as much money out as possible, the gloves are off.
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« Reply #29637 on: October 13, 2021, 08:11:45 am »

Genuine question here folks.....merging two recent themes into one question.....

If the Trust gave the money (and potentially a larger share of the money) to the new HE project and it was resurrected, and then it formed part of a possible infrastructure foundation going forward..... how many on here stand by their claims that they would not give a penny to anything that was Trust led/backed?


I wouldnít because the trust have proved before that they arenít very good at deciding whether they have given or loaned people money.
After six years the trust are still claiming they are owed £10,000 by the owners but havenít mentioned why after  six years they have been unable to recoup it for their members.

That level of incompetence would count me out of being involved with anything the trust did that involved them handling large amounts of money.

Explain to your members what actually happened with the £10,000 lent/given to the club.

1) there should have been something in writing regards the transaction and if so there would be no issue whatsoever in claiming it back.
2) after six years of not claiming it back the inference (rightly or wrongly) is that this wasnít the case which would show a great level of incompetence on the trusts part.

I think itís a bit of a cheek for the trust to want to get into another financial situation without first explaining to their membership what has happened regards their missing £10,000 from trust funds that they repeatedly mention.

Anyone from the trust like to explain the process of the club gaining £10,000 from trust funds and what measures/safeguards were in place for its return??
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« Reply #29638 on: October 13, 2021, 08:46:55 am »

I wouldnít because the trust have proved before that they arenít very good at deciding whether they have given or loaned people money.
After six years the trust are still claiming they are owed £10,000 by the owners but havenít mentioned why after  six years they have been unable to recoup it for their members.

That level of incompetence would count me out of being involved with anything the trust did that involved them handling large amounts of money.

Explain to your members what actually happened with the £10,000 lent/given to the club.

1) there should have been something in writing regards the transaction and if so there would be no issue whatsoever in claiming it back.
2) after six years of not claiming it back the inference (rightly or wrongly) is that this wasnít the case which would show a great level of incompetence on the trusts part.

I think itís a bit of a cheek for the trust to want to get into another financial situation without first explaining to their membership what has happened regards their missing £10,000 from trust funds that they repeatedly mention.

Anyone from the trust like to explain the process of the club gaining £10,000 from trust funds and what measures/safeguards were in place for its return??

I remember going to the Coventry game thinking it could be the last ever as the club was on the brink. There was interest but although the players were being paid by their union, the staff were not and the staff were not exactly well paid. Now I am not sure exactly how it was arranged but the Trust paid the staff out of the 10k to keep them going and at the time I believe the favourites to purchase the club agreed to pay it back if they were successful. This was reported in the press. There certainly wouldn't have been time to draw up a legal document to guarantee in law but who cares? The staff were paid, that is the important thing. The money was never repaid and I imagine the Trust would not have wanted to sue a brand new owner at that time and in any case it would have cost a fair bundle knowing the legal profession.
If you are going to forever resent that organisation for not getting the money back in the circumstances in which it was paid then you need to look in the mirror, have a word with yourself and then sit down, take a deep breath and troll the internet for a new place to live where noone else does.
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« Reply #29639 on: October 13, 2021, 08:58:39 am »

Answers in red above.

As for your following post who are these other alternative supporters groups, plural, that are dependent on the Trust?  I don't think the New Hotel End Project were.  As Keith clarified earlier they sought the Trusts backing/support which was absoloutely the right thing to do but other than a financial contribution they had no other input at that stage.  Maybe dependence was the wrong word to use?  Partnership/support?
You used the phrase 'main supporters group' when describing the Trust yesterday in your post @18.56 and now you're asking me what the other groups are? I don't know McH, besides the HE I believe there's a supporters page on Facebook so there's two for starters. What about the travel groups that don't align themselves to the Trust, do they count as independent supporters groups?
'They (HE) sought the club's backing/support'. Yet you don't believe that action constitutes any form of dependency and you'd rather relationship described as supportive or a partnership.
OK, I'll rephrase my post.
It makes you realise how much these other groups seek to rely on the support of the Trust, (in going cap in hand to them), and how much criticism the Trust still receive from some inspite of responding positively to a request like that.
Thanks for your answers in red.
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