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Redevelopment Closer Than Ever?

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Author Topic: Redevelopment Closer Than Ever?  (Read 1451081 times)
KeithB
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« Reply #29660 on: October 14, 2021, 21:43:59 pm »

With respect Keith are you saying every individual supporter needs to contact KT when the Trust, the supporters representative body acting on our behalf, already has quite some time ago but won't tell us what was said?

KT hasn't said anything in any discussion I've been involved with that wasn't shared by the Trust.  I don't know who has told you that but it's not correct as far as I know. 

But people have plenty of time to ask me on here and not enough to drop the owners a quick email asking what the plan is?
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« Reply #29661 on: October 14, 2021, 22:11:43 pm »

KT hasn't said anything in any discussion I've been involved with that wasn't shared by the Trust.  I don't know who has told you that but it's not correct as far as I know. 

But people have plenty of time to ask me on here and not enough to drop the owners a quick email asking what the plan is?

I think you are confused.  You replied to Woody who was questioning the detail surrounding the sale to the Chinese.  You suggested he contact KT.  A supporter did just that a couple of months ago and was given a copy of a letter KT had sent to the Trust giving his version.  So I was pointing out that the Trust already did confront KT regarding the Chinese deal last summer 2020.  What we don't know is what those full conversations were and whether it satisfied the Trust.  In fact we only know this discussion took place because KT told us not the Trust.
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« Reply #29662 on: October 15, 2021, 00:41:24 am »

For what itís worth can I just say that personally I am impressed with the way Keith conducts himself on here. People may not always be happy with the answers, but I donít think anyone can complain with the tone and manner regarding how they are communicated. Somehow I feel if we could all keep to that standard we might get somewhere. Just saying.
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« Reply #29663 on: October 15, 2021, 01:21:16 am »

Got that, but an individual on here keeps stating/indicating that DB/KT pocketed the £6m, you state that you know/confirm that the sale was made and I believe that that was widely reported?

Were the funds actually transferred or was the subsequent 'spending' done on the back of a promise?
Do you know what went on afterwards when it didn't go further?

How much of the £6m was returned/refunded (if at all) when the deal/takeover didn't come to the expected full fruition?
The lack of currently available evidence to say that it was or wasn't, isn't necessarily evidence that any of it wasn't.

Keith,
I asked this at 1640hrs yesterday, in amongst the others, it appears that you missed responding?
Thanks...
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« Reply #29664 on: October 15, 2021, 07:15:12 am »

Keith,
I asked this at 1640hrs yesterday, in amongst the others, it appears that you missed responding?
Thanks...

In fairness DC I think Keth answered more or less the same question when I asked it.

So, if I'm reading this correctly, essentially you've seen evidence of the initial sale, but not of any subsequent transactions that may or may not have followed in the fallout from the breakdown of the deal?

Correct.  It's unknown to all but those involved. 

So neither the Trust nor anyone else outside KT, DB, 5USports and any intermediaries have any evidence of what happened subsequent to the original transaction. This makes certain accusations made by some people little more than insinuation and supposition with no evidence to back it up.

Maybe the owners did trouser a few million, maybe the payment itself never materialised in full, maybe they gave it back... I've no more of a clue than anyone else but I certainly don't see it as a valid stick to beat them with.

The usual response to this is "KT could clear all this up if he wanted to" but something clearly went badly wrong in the transaction meaning some sort of agreement must have been made at some point to draw the whole mess to a close, and I'd be amazed if that didn't come with a mutual NDA attached.
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« Reply #29665 on: October 15, 2021, 08:08:14 am »

Everything we know is fact is stated as fact.  Everything which is not factual is also made clear.

There is another party involved in this to a much greater degree than the Trust which could provide you with 100% of the information if it wished to.  You may well also be asking them, but that wouldn't be via THE I guess, so I can't tell.
Appreciate the replies, and as others have said you deserve credit for the way you have interacted with people such as myself. Its refreshing to be able to get straight forward replies, even though I might not agree with what you say.
I don't have any further questions but in light of what you have said, I disagree that 'Everything which is not factual is also made clear'. Personally I think it was written in a way to make it sound like fact.
I've said before but I hope and encourage the Trust board, and yourself in particular, to review the list of questions, review the statements and the presentation and really ask if they were portrayed in the right way. I appreciate you are all volunteers, all passionate and all have the interests of the club at heart but the tone of the above for me is always going to provoke a negative reply. I'm not saying that you need to cosy up and be submissive but there is a balance to be struck. This is something I hope the councilors can help with.
Now, on to the weekend!
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« Reply #29666 on: October 15, 2021, 08:42:14 am »


I don't have any further questions


Keith, you may leave the (East) stand.
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Terryfenwickatemyhamster
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« Reply #29667 on: October 15, 2021, 09:03:42 am »

At the moment, I canít really get in any further debate about this subject. However, one thing I will say, is to repeat what I said quite a few years ago now.

Everyone thinks they are right. Everyone probably wants whatís best for the club. But one thing is for sure. As much as football is important to us all. Had some people invested the time and effort they put into arguing on here, into something really worthy of their attention, Iím sure they would feel better about themselves today. And might have made a real difference in this world.

Remember this. If one brutal dictatorship, with an heinous human rights record of r@pe, mutilation, murder, corruption and torture turned up offering us premiership football, none of our words would matter. Football, and football supporters would be outside the club, sitting on their fellow supporters shoulders, cheering on the new regime and every word on this thread would count for nought.

So drop any romantic notion that football gives a flying fcuk about anything, or that anyone will stop its charge towards oblivion. And never make the mistake of taking yourself serious on here 😀😀
« Last Edit: October 15, 2021, 09:19:24 am by Terryfenwickatemyhamster » Report Spam   Logged
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« Reply #29668 on: October 15, 2021, 09:22:41 am »

At the moment, I canít really get in any further debate about this subject. However, one thing I will say, is to repeat what I said quite a few years ago now.

Everyone thinks they are right. Everyone probably wants whatís best for the club. But one thing is for sure. As much as football is important to us all. Had some people invested the time and effort they put into arguing on here, into something really worthy of their attention, Iím sure they would feel better about themselves today. And might have made a real difference in this world.

Remember this. If one brutal dictatorship, with an heinous human rights record of r@pe, mutilation, murder, corruption and torture turned up offering us premiership football, none of our words would matter. Football, and football supporters would be outside the club, sitting on their fellow supporters shoulders, cheering on the new regime and every word on this thread would count for nought.

So drop any romantic notion that football gives a flying fcuk about anything, or that anyone will stop its charge towards oblivion. And never make the mistake of taking yourself serious on here 😀😀
One things for sure Tel they would pass the ďFit and Proper TestĒ .
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Rule Britannia
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« Reply #29669 on: October 15, 2021, 09:34:17 am »

One things for sure Tel they would pass the ďFit and Proper TestĒ .

Absolutely mate..
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« Reply #29670 on: October 15, 2021, 09:36:26 am »

Keith,
I asked this at 1640hrs yesterday, in amongst the others, it appears that you missed responding?
Thanks...

Sorry.  

We know they received the money.  We don't know if they had to pay anything to get the shares back.  The word "reacquire" used by KT is an interesting one.  Why would you not say that you had to buy them back if you had to buy them back?

You're correct that we don't know the rest.

My view of the owners is that if they're going to keep saying they are transparent and have the best interests of the club at heart, why won't they just give some details to prove that and we can all work together towards a brighter future for NTFC.  They have all of this information.  Why not kill the debate stone dead by sharing it?

The view of some seem to be that if we can't 100% prove the owners are not transparent and don't have the best interests of the club at heart then we will assume that a West Ham supporting journeyman chairman based in Florida and a lawyer from Oxford, turned developer, who lives in Dubai, care deeply about our club and will do the right thing by it and should be left without question to do exactly whatever it is they will end up doing.  

I find that a risky strategy.
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« Reply #29671 on: October 15, 2021, 10:18:37 am »

Sorry.  

We know they received the money.  We don't know if they had to pay anything to get the shares back.  The word "reacquire" used by KT is an interesting one.  Why would you not say that you had to buy them back if you had to buy them back?

You're correct that we don't know the rest.

My view of the owners is that if they're going to keep saying they are transparent and have the best interests of the club at heart, why won't they just give some details to prove that and we can all work together towards a brighter future for NTFC.  They have all of this information.  Why not kill the debate stone dead by sharing it?

The view of some seem to be that if we can't 100% prove the owners are not transparent and don't have the best interests of the club at heart then we will assume that a West Ham supporting journeyman chairman based in Florida and a lawyer from Oxford, turned developer, who lives in Dubai, care deeply about our club and will do the right thing by it and should be left without question to do exactly whatever it is they will end up doing.  

I find that a risky strategy.


Thank you.
Regarding the distance, both in terms of miles and affiliation, it is not unique to us.  That could be applied to many, if not the majority, of PL/EFL clubs?
Unfortunately, it is the way of the football world now. 
We just hope that 'our version' leave us in a better position than when they arrived (on and off the pitch), more importantly and at the very least, with a club that we can continue to support.

Yes, there is an argument that we aren't progressing at any pace (if at all) and that standing still is going backwards.
But to be honest, coming away from our understandably parochial view, looking at some of the other clubs and the way they bounce between varying degrees of crises that, aside from the East Stand and current land issue/disagreement, I would argue that we are relatively fortunate?
The grass isn't always greener...

I echo previous comments, that your decision to represent The Trust Board on this forum and having/joined up civilised conversation (for and against) has changed the atmosphere on this thread beyond recognition.
You never know, it maybe the catalyst for more of the support once again to fall in behind The Trust (Board), to march in a position of supporter strength that we once had?
« Last Edit: October 15, 2021, 10:49:14 am by Deepcut Cobbler » Report Spam   Logged

ďThey shall grow not old as we that are left grow old:
Age shall not weary them, nor the years condemn.
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« Reply #29672 on: October 15, 2021, 12:28:18 pm »

Thank you.
Regarding the distance, both in terms of miles and affiliation, it is not unique to us.  That could be applied to many, if not the majority, of PL/EFL clubs?
Unfortunately, it is the way of the football world now. 
We just hope that 'our version' leave us in a better position than when they arrived (on and off the pitch), more importantly and at the very least, with a club that we can continue to support.

Yes, there is an argument that we aren't progressing at any pace (if at all) and that standing still is going backwards.
But to be honest, coming away from our understandably parochial view, looking at some of the other clubs and the way they bounce between varying degrees of crises that, aside from the East Stand and current land issue/disagreement, I would argue that we are relatively fortunate?
The grass isn't always greener...

I echo previous comments, that your decision to represent The Trust Board on this forum and having/joined up civilised conversation (for and against) has changed the atmosphere on this thread beyond recognition.
You never know, it maybe the catalyst for more of the support once again to fall in behind The Trust (Board), to march in a position of supporter strength that we once had?
Letís hope so Deepcut, because hoping for the best isnít a strategy that I would ever want to use.
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« Reply #29673 on: October 15, 2021, 13:42:13 pm »

At the moment, I canít really get in any further debate about this subject. However, one thing I will say, is to repeat what I said quite a few years ago now.

Everyone thinks they are right. Everyone probably wants whatís best for the club. But one thing is for sure. As much as football is important to us all. Had some people invested the time and effort they put into arguing on here, into something really worthy of their attention, Iím sure they would feel better about themselves today. And might have made a real difference in this world.

Remember this. If one brutal dictatorship, with an heinous human rights record of r@pe, mutilation, murder, corruption and torture turned up offering us premiership football, none of our words would matter. Football, and football supporters would be outside the club, sitting on their fellow supporters shoulders, cheering on the new regime and every word on this thread would count for nought.

So drop any romantic notion that football gives a flying fcuk about anything, or that anyone will stop its charge towards oblivion. And never make the mistake of taking yourself serious on here 😀😀


For goodness sake, don't mention Newcastle United. Phew, I think you got away with it.
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« Reply #29674 on: October 15, 2021, 13:51:23 pm »


For goodness sake, don't mention Newcastle United. Phew, I think you got away with it.

It would apply to any club. Look how many of our fans lept on the Di Stefano/Fashanu group.. Premier league and league clubs supporters donít cheer on their club anymore. They cheer on their chosen businessÖ
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« Reply #29675 on: October 15, 2021, 14:59:22 pm »

Keith, you may leave the (East) stand.

 Grin This made me chuckle
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« Reply #29676 on: October 15, 2021, 21:49:10 pm »

Regarding the 5U Sport share deal I canít comment on this particular case obviously. However any deal I have any experience of on a personal or professional level to purchase any entity has required legal representation. But leaving that aside for a minute, once money has been paid and received by the vendor, the entity becomes the legal property of the purchaser. I canít think of a contractual or legal mechanism to reverse this or a allow the vendor any element of control once the payment has been received. Iím no legal expert so that doesnít mean it doesnít exist, but it does leave me with a sense of incredulity. The scenario is that someone has agreed to buy a shareholding for millions from a vendor by paying the agreed price into the vendors offshore bank account. Somehow the vendors have managed to keep the money and the ultimately the ownership and by definition control of the shares overcoming one of the significant principles of the point of ownership under contract law. This probably applies under the jurisdiction of UK law due to this being where the asset is situated. All requiring a spectacular failure on the part of the purchasers legal representation to protect their client or even more unlikely the case that they didnít engage legal representation at all. As I said I am no legal expert but if someone can come up with a plausible explanation for all this I would be grateful because itís a complete mystery to me.
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« Reply #29677 on: October 15, 2021, 22:36:04 pm »

Regarding the 5U Sport share deal I canít comment on this particular case obviously. However any deal I have any experience of on a personal or professional level to purchase any entity has required legal representation. But leaving that aside for a minute, once money has been paid and received by the vendor, the entity becomes the legal property of the purchaser. I canít think of a contractual or legal mechanism to reverse this or a allow the vendor any element of control once the payment has been received. Iím no legal expert so that doesnít mean it doesnít exist, but it does leave me with a sense of incredulity. The scenario is that someone has agreed to buy a shareholding for millions from a vendor by paying the agreed price into the vendors offshore bank account. Somehow the vendors have managed to keep the money and the ultimately the ownership and by definition control of the shares overcoming one of the significant principles of the point of ownership under contract law. This probably applies under the jurisdiction of UK law due to this being where the asset is situated. All requiring a spectacular failure on the part of the purchasers legal representation to protect their client or even more unlikely the case that they didnít engage legal representation at all. As I said I am no legal expert but if someone can come up with a plausible explanation for all this I would be grateful because itís a complete mystery to me.
Iím led to believe they defaulted on the final payment, after the Chinese stopped foreign investment in sport, therefore breaking the contract.
Iím serious when I say why donít you contact KT and ask him?
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« Reply #29678 on: October 15, 2021, 23:11:48 pm »

Iím led to believe they defaulted on the final payment, after the Chinese stopped foreign investment in sport, therefore breaking the contract.
Iím serious when I say why donít you contact KT and ask him?
Itís more a question around legal mechanisms and failures generally. I am mystified, I have just spent the best part of 3 months umpiring a contractual tennis match between lawyers and following the pedantic nature of that experience I genuinely cant envisage this happening. I say umpiring, I was more a confused onlooker really. The force majeure clauses covering legislation were bog standard though. Basically any unforeseen changes to legislation affecting either parties ability to fulfill their contractual obligations allowed either side to revert to their original position. This has come into particular focus due to the impacts of Covid, but it is fairly routine apparently. As I said having been subjected to this nonsense on a fairly regular basis it genuinely doesnít make any sense to me. That being said the lawyers all did very nicely out of it, so allís well that ends well. I should also add the amounts in question weíre a fraction of those in the deal the club were involved in.
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« Reply #29679 on: October 16, 2021, 09:12:47 am »

I would also find it odd that the shares and controlling interest were transferred prior to completion of the deal.
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I think someone should just take this city of Peterborough and just... just flush it down the f***in' toilet

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