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Redevelopment Closer Than Ever?

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Author Topic: Redevelopment Closer Than Ever?  (Read 1344279 times)
guest3359
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« Reply #29680 on: October 14, 2021, 10:22:48 am »

https://www.newhotelend.com/what-next

Very disappointed by this. Maybe my thoughts on what a fan led initiative is are different to other peoples.
Essentially all that has happened is they have made up some drawings, made up some scenarios and said over to you NTFC / Trust.
What happened to the further investigations that were mentioned? It didnt say anything about asking the club to run with it or even the Trust.
I appreciate its peoples times etc but to blame the club and the Trust for it being shelved isn't fair on either. If they had completed all the investigations and passed on something more than a back of an envelope concept then maybe.

This came with a very professional feel, a lot of fan fare with articles in the Chron and also from the club I think but essentially was no substance and not even slightly fan led.
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guest3359
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« Reply #29681 on: October 14, 2021, 10:32:10 am »

THE TRUST HAVE THE PROOF.
WHY DONT YOU ASK THEM.
DONE
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Deepcut Cobbler
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« Reply #29682 on: October 14, 2021, 10:40:37 am »

THE TRUST HAVE THE PROOF.
WHY DONT YOU ASK THEM.

Why should the ordinary members have to request in order to 'pull' the information into the public domain, shouldn't The Trust be 'pushing' the information?
Or is it on a 'need to know/limited distribution', therefore the ordinary members shouldn't be provided with the information, even if it's individually requested?
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« Reply #29683 on: October 14, 2021, 10:56:45 am »

Why should the ordinary members have to request in order to 'pull' the information into the public domain, shouldn't The Trust be 'pushing' the information?
Or is it on a 'need to know/limited distribution', therefore the ordinary members shouldn't be provided with the information, even if it's individually requested?
I would have thought information like that isn’t for the public domain, not to mention most aren’t interested.
The trust have evidenced it so there you go, the smoking gun.
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Rule Britannia
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« Reply #29684 on: October 14, 2021, 10:57:23 am »

DONE
WELL DONE WOODY, WHY ARE WE SHOUTING?
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« Reply #29685 on: October 14, 2021, 11:07:27 am »

In any case, you miss the point. Maybe the majority on here aren't excited enough to actively seek out the proof themselves, and the only way to get people on board is to proactively show them something that makes them sit up and listen.
That’s because I’m a bit thick 😉 I think at this point in time further trying to alienate the current owners from the fan base is counterproductive, we need a solution to this impasse unfortunately one side wants to eat all the cake so it needs arbitration.
Taking the arrogant egotistical personalities out of this would be a major step forwards to a conclusion.
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guest49
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« Reply #29686 on: October 14, 2021, 11:10:02 am »

I'm not sure what 'proof' the Trust are holding but it clearly isn't anything illegal...unless of course they are instructing a legal entity to take action, hence why they won't share it.
If it's nothing illegal then it means very little, as apart from a photo in the tunnel the Chinese had little to do with NTFC.
If someone managed to bag £6m for effectively nothing I'd respect them a bit more, rather than resent them.
I totally understand where some are going with this and that any money should be offset against the debts. If only life (and business) was so easy!
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« Reply #29687 on: October 14, 2021, 11:45:53 am »

I'm not sure what 'proof' the Trust are holding but it clearly isn't anything illegal...unless of course they are instructing a legal entity to take action, hence why they won't share it.
If it's nothing illegal then it means very little, as apart from a photo in the tunnel the Chinese had little to do with NTFC.
If someone managed to bag £6m for effectively nothing I'd respect them a bit more, rather than resent them.
I totally understand where some are going with this and that any money should be offset against the debts. If only life (and business) was so easy!
Emmmm I’m not so sure I would respect someone more for that action, how would you feel if it was your £6m?

What’s a bit rich is then claiming you’ve pumped £xm + into an organisation when in real terms you have had income from a defaulted transaction.
Is that someone you would want to do business with?
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Rule Britannia
guest3359
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« Reply #29688 on: October 14, 2021, 11:51:57 am »

ref new hotel end...
Quote
WHAT ARE THE NEXT STEPS?
1. Initial funding roadmapping with Dave Boyle of the Community Shares Company

2. Pre-Feasability and Feasability Studies with Mott Macdonald.

3. Capital raise (Tifosy/Community Shares Company) or alternative funding options.

No mention of asking the club for money. Surely step 3 is when we would have been asked to contribute (although would have to support 1 and 2)

Quote
WHAT DO YOU MEAN BY FAN-LED?
While Northampton Town FC have given their blessing to the early exploration of the project they have asserted their belief that the New Hotel End project be driven by supporters.

The only funding so far has been from Northampton Town Supporters’ Trust and we thank them for their valued support in exploring a project which has the potential to benefit the club and supporters alike.
So the clubs position was known from the outset, and the same from the Trust.
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guest49
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« Reply #29689 on: October 14, 2021, 11:54:34 am »

Emmmm I’m not so sure I would respect someone more for that action, how would you feel if it was your £6m?

What’s a bit rich is then claiming you’ve pumped £xm + into an organisation when in real terms you have had income from a defaulted transaction.
Is that someone you would want to do business with?

Not saying I'd want to do business with them but I don't have much empathy with a Chinese company I know nothing about, if they were silly enough to part with it.
If it's true then it's an absolute masterstroke and I'll perhaps use them if I wanted to make some easy cash. Not sure I'd consult with them on how to run a success football club though. They all have their strengths. Wasn't Dozey into cemeteries? These wheeler dealer types always have an angle for their next buck.
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guest49
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« Reply #29690 on: October 14, 2021, 12:05:15 pm »

https://www.newhotelend.com/what-next

Very disappointed by this. Maybe my thoughts on what a fan led initiative is are different to other peoples.
Essentially all that has happened is they have made up some drawings, made up some scenarios and said over to you NTFC / Trust.
What happened to the further investigations that were mentioned? It didnt say anything about asking the club to run with it or even the Trust.
I appreciate its peoples times etc but to blame the club and the Trust for it being shelved isn't fair on either. If they had completed all the investigations and passed on something more than a back of an envelope concept then maybe.

This came with a very professional feel, a lot of fan fare with articles in the Chron and also from the club I think but essentially was no substance and not even slightly fan led.

Yeah, that's how I read it. Sounds like a couple of individuals with a vision but not the time, resources, inclination and probably knowledge required to really push it on and make something happen.
They make fair points though that without the Club and/or Trust (especially the Club) sponsoring and getting behind any type of ground development, any fan led scheme would be difficult to really get behind.
I'm sure if the right facility was built and marketed, promoted and run effectively it would soon pay for itself. We've seen events at the Saints and County Ground (I'm surprised there hasn't been more) that seem to be well attended. We even had Simple Minds play at Delapre Abbey. It would also bring that safe standing which I'm sure would be popular and improve the atmosphere.
It'd be great to see some decent acts in town, as opposed to driving to London and Birmingham all the time.
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« Reply #29691 on: October 14, 2021, 12:06:51 pm »

Not saying I'd want to do business with them but I don't have much empathy with a Chinese company I know nothing about, if they were silly enough to part with it.
If it's true then it's an absolute masterstroke and I'll perhaps use them if I wanted to make some easy cash. Not sure I'd consult with them on how to run a success football club though. They all have their strengths. Wasn't Dozey into cemeteries? These wheeler dealer types always have an angle for their next buck.
Very true mate, always treading a fine line between what legal and what’s not.
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« Reply #29692 on: October 14, 2021, 12:26:29 pm »

ref new hotel end...
No mention of asking the club for money. Surely step 3 is when we would have been asked to contribute (although would have to support 1 and 2)
So the clubs position was known from the outset, and the same from the Trust.

"The club’s insistence that this was a 100% fan-led scheme with little initial organisational and no funding support from NTFC relied solely on our will and that has been diminished to an extent,"

The Club were asked if they were willing to contribute the same amount that the Trust were....
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« Reply #29693 on: October 14, 2021, 12:46:35 pm »

THE TRUST HAVE THE PROOF.
WHY DONT YOU ASK THEM.

I did ask them.  Many times.  The most recent being yesterday!  Do you know what they said?  You should do because I posted it on here several months ago.  "The Trust Board is satisfied that the evidence of the payments in the amounts stated is accurate."  That's it.  Is that a good enough answer?

And you think the club are bad at answering questions.

Here's some facts for you.  The Trust Board, again note the distinction between board and membership, were in possession of this information last summer 2020.  It wasn't only shared with the membership/wider fanbase this summer 2021 and when I say shared I mean we were told about it not shown any actual evidence.  Is that ok, comfortable with that?  If it's so damning why wait nearly a year and even then they only told you about it because people had become aware of it's existence.

As the Trust have stated DB hasn't sued them despite having a string of law firms so they should be perfectly comfortable with producing all the evidence and explaining how/where they got it from.

Apparently in summer 2020 they were so concerned about the information they wrote to KT to challenge him about it.  Discussions took place via letter and meetings where it was discussed.  Do you know what was said?  Nope neither do I or anyone else other than the Trust Board and the club.  WE ONLY know this conversation even happened because KT released a copy of the letter he wrote to the Trust Board in response to their concerns.   Again you comfortable with that?  Open, honest, transparent?

Coincidently that summer 2020 someone was hawking the evidence around local and national press.

You might ask if this evidence is so damning it should be shared with the relevant authorities be that Police, HMRC, Companies House, the football league and I'm sure there are potentially others.  Did this happen?  The trust wouldn't answer and said "The Trust is regulated by the Financial Conduct Authority and complies with its reporting obligations."  So is that a yes/no/maybe?  If it was reported to anyone what was the outcome?

So going back to when they challenged KT in the late summer of 2020.  The Trust have made their position clear.  They have grave concerns regarding the chinese deal and the financial transactions that took place.  They rightly have concerns that the club was sold without anyone telling them.  Basically they don't trust the owners as far as they could throw them.  So what did they do next?  Tell it's membership, provide evidence of the wrong doings.....nope get this and this is simply bizarre and frankly unbelievable.  Just weeks later...  

THEY PUBLICLY RELEASED A JOINT STATEMENT WITH THE OWNERS AND BACKED THE EAST STAND DEVELOPMENT DEAL!!!!

You couldn't make this up.

And that's not even mentioning that this is the EXACT SAME DEAL/PLANS that are on the table TODAY!

And you wonder why I have questions?

Everyone happy with all that?  Is that what you expect from your representatives?  If it is well you are in luck because that's what you have.

And I'm the bad guy for challenging this and asking for much better from them.  As Deepcut said is it really expected that ordinary supporters should have to "pull" this information out of the Trust?

Finally to head of the usual supsects that are about to ignore everything I have written and say "Are happy that the club act this way or why don't you challenge the club".  No I'm not happy and I have challenged the club.  But think about how flawed that kind of thinking is.  You are essentially saying everything I have said above is ok because that's what the owners are like.
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« Reply #29694 on: October 14, 2021, 12:53:12 pm »

I would have thought information like that isn’t for the public domain, not to mention most aren’t interested.
The trust have evidenced it so there you go, the smoking gun.

If it's not for the public domain, then it's a waste of time an ordinary member asking for it?
How do you know that 'most aren't interested'?  I haven't asked for it, but if it was made available, I'd have a look to see if I could decipher it in order to make my own judgement.
So, the 'evidence' that The Trust Board is using, in an attempt to persuade us, isn't available for perusal or public consumption?

What happened to the £6m 'Chinese Money' that allegedly disappeared from the records?
Was it a legal or non-legal activity? If non-legal, is it being pursued by anyone?

Answers that include the terms (or similar to) "we believe/we assume/in our opinion/we know/from our limited knowledge/they haven't challenged us" etc... are not the answers that I am looking for.
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Age shall not weary them, nor the years condemn.
At the going down of the sun and in the morning
We will remember them.” Laurence Binyon

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MCHammer
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« Reply #29695 on: October 14, 2021, 12:55:50 pm »

https://www.newhotelend.com/what-next

Very disappointed by this. Maybe my thoughts on what a fan led initiative is are different to other peoples.
Essentially all that has happened is they have made up some drawings, made up some scenarios and said over to you NTFC / Trust.
What happened to the further investigations that were mentioned? It didnt say anything about asking the club to run with it or even the Trust.
I appreciate its peoples times etc but to blame the club and the Trust for it being shelved isn't fair on either. If they had completed all the investigations and passed on something more than a back of an envelope concept then maybe.

This came with a very professional feel, a lot of fan fare with articles in the Chron and also from the club I think but essentially was no substance and not even slightly fan led.

Thanks for that.  Looks like some people owe me an apology.

"The New Hotel End was partly an attempt to build bridges between the club and the trust with a project with clear benefits that everyone could get behind.

Unfortunately the relationship between the club and the trust prevented this at the time of shelving."
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« Reply #29696 on: October 14, 2021, 13:13:59 pm »

"The club’s insistence that this was a 100% fan-led scheme with little initial organisational and no funding support from NTFC relied solely on our will and that has been diminished to an extent,"

The Club were asked if they were willing to contribute the same amount that the Trust were....
I am aware. I also have no issues with the Club's position as this was supposed to be fan led. I also expected that it would be 100% crowd funded so therefore the Trust agreeing to contribute half is a massive plus from the Trust so they deserve recognition for that.
But not only did the NHE team want the club to fund it, they also expected the club to project manage it. So essentially the only thing that was fan led was the creation of the drawings and making a website. Nothing of any real substance.
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« Reply #29697 on: October 14, 2021, 13:45:30 pm »

"The club’s insistence that this was a 100% fan-led scheme with little initial organisational and no funding support from NTFC relied solely on our will and that has been diminished to an extent,"

The Club were asked if they were willing to contribute the same amount that the Trust were....

Are you serious?  You read that statement and that's your takeaway from it.

As Woody so eloquently put it a "fan led" project essentialy expected the club to pay for it all, deliver and manage it!  They even say the Trust should have taken it on as well!  Was this how the project was sold to the Trust when they were approached to back it?  Perhaps Keith can answer?

Absolutely the Trust deserves some credit for it's willingness to financially back it.  If I was the Supporters Trust I'd be counting my lucky stars I hadn't written the £900 cheque, which for an organisation that turnovers roughly £10k a year, is a significant sum.

P.S. why cut the quote off at the comma and not reference the whole sentence as it reads quite differently with the rest added?
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guest168
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« Reply #29698 on: October 14, 2021, 13:50:01 pm »

I am aware. I also have no issues with the Club's position as this was supposed to be fan led. I also expected that it would be 100% crowd funded so therefore the Trust agreeing to contribute half is a massive plus from the Trust so they deserve recognition for that.
But not only did the NHE team want the club to fund it, they also expected the club to project manage it. So essentially the only thing that was fan led was the creation of the drawings and making a website. Nothing of any real substance.

so are you guys totally happen and content that after 6 years of nothing, a fan puts forward an idea to provide better facilities, the club no not interested but if you want to do everything go ahead, basically not one piece of support for the venture from the club and owners

AND YOU ARE ALL FINE WITH THAT?

Please remind me of one club led initiative please

It is telling that all the anti-fan, anti Trust posters are all suddenly posting.

BTW:  You can't take any of the link seriously as it was only a statement and showed no evidence or proof. I must see it in writing, or a video or at least audio recording as you can't prove that the Trust were prepared to get involved and the club not. Where is the evidence?
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« Reply #29699 on: October 14, 2021, 13:52:04 pm »

Are you serious?  You read that statement and that's your takeaway from it.

As Woody so eloquently put it a "fan led" project essentialy expected the club to pay for it all, deliver and manage it!  They even say the Trust should have taken it on as well!  Was this how the project was sold to the Trust when they were approached to back it?  Perhaps Keith can answer?

Absolutely the Trust deserves some credit for it's willingness to financially back it.  If I was the Supporters Trust I'd be counting my lucky stars I hadn't written the £900 cheque, which for an organisation that turnovers roughly £10k a year, is a significant sum.

P.S. why cut the quote off at the comma and not reference the whole sentence as it reads quite differently with the rest added?

Just ignore it Hammer, it's just a statement, no actual evidence provided.
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