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Redevelopment Closer Than Ever?

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BedsCobb
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« Reply #29720 on: October 25, 2021, 17:58:49 pm »

Very good suggestions by both Massey and Manwork, but where I'd change things is instead of fitting seats, how about an extra 12 rows of standing terracing up behind the left in situe seating in both north and south stands?
This would make Sixfields the most atmospheric ground in the EFL, encouraging fans who enjoy standing at football.
I've always noticed how we take far more away support when standing in a terrace behind a goal than when seated.
Cost wise terracing with a roof would be cheaper than doubled stepped seating structure also allowing more to attend, obviously in a safe well stewarded environment.
Costs would be half those vast debts we keep building up seeking land deals,
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« Reply #29721 on: October 25, 2021, 18:00:57 pm »

Has the redevelopment started yet??
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Peter Frost
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« Reply #29722 on: October 25, 2021, 19:13:04 pm »


Funding? “Sell” the 2000 seats for £1500 each, frankly that's bugger all and I would wager there are enough of us fans scattered around the globe who would love to “buy a seat” to build a new stand. Only 1999 to go as I’m in!

They will tell me it’s not possible, but they've never tried.


The suggestion or similar bond approach is definitely the way to go - the trust have to step up and try to coordinate and capture these ideas and energy - of course there are many practical issues to overcome but this concept could just work.
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Melbourne Cobbler
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« Reply #29723 on: October 25, 2021, 19:39:09 pm »

If it’s a professionally evaluated proposal then I’m in.
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Let me make one thing absolutely clear, the Trust “advisor” is not god. Are you going to tell him or shall I?
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« Reply #29724 on: October 25, 2021, 20:12:34 pm »

Very good suggestions by both Massey and Manwork, but where I'd change things is instead of fitting seats, how about an extra 12 rows of standing terracing up behind the left in situe seating in both north and south stands?
This would make Sixfields the most atmospheric ground in the EFL, encouraging fans who enjoy standing at football.
I've always noticed how we take far more away support when standing in a terrace behind a goal than when seated.
Cost wise terracing with a roof would be cheaper than doubled stepped seating structure also allowing more to attend, obviously in a safe well stewarded environment.
Costs would be half those vast debts we keep building up seeking land deals,

I agree with a standing bit, but seriously, the most atmospheric ground in the EFL?
😆
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« Reply #29725 on: October 26, 2021, 03:09:13 am »

It’s not the time for separate ideas, the lads from the NHE need to work with the Trust we all need to join forces together for such a project. This plan is actually for a large licenced venue with a stand attached, not the other way around.

I’m absolutely serious about this but it would be a shame if I must return 6000 odd miles to push it. I can’t get back to the UK until next year but there’s no reason we couldn’t have a new community venue north stand in place and open for the 24/25 season.

Beds, I understand your desire for standing but the idea of rail standing on the upper tier will frighten the council and others. With this plan the lower tier will not have access to the upper tier they are separate entities, integrating the top tier with the concourse area for larger private events, non-football related only those who buy an upper ticket will have access. The existing lower tier would not be affected by this development and remain open throughout for the club to use as normal.

Once the exciting and captivating plans are complete (a smaller less attractive and less beneficial development will just not gain enough support) we need a prospectus for investors, a media campaign, launch and PR. When the ideas of this “Fans” stand gather media/social media attention it will fly. The Guardian are already poised to continue their story of Sixfields.

To be part of Cobblers history the first option is to “buy a seat” for £1500 (paid in 3 x £500 installments at set stages over 12 month period if preferred) You can buy as many seats as you wish for your family and everyone who buys a seat will have their name engraved in a plaque which will be part of the entrance façade. Other long term and sponsorship investor packages will be available.

This new north stand is in no way connected to the east stand development, an entirely separate fans, trust and public funded community project.

Key factors. No planning will be refused, the club and council cannot veto a development at a community venue supported and financed by the public.

All net revenue gained by this development after costs, wages etc will be used directly for club matters, to sponsor another Kion Etete or even purchase players. No monies will go directly to the club owners other than match day seat ticket revenue.  All bar, restaurant, brewery sales, corporate sales and other revenue to be retained by venue management.

There is no other iconic entertainment venue in the area capable of staging large indoor events, the venue (during no football) will still have a licensed capacity of 2000 with the concourse and bar area offering a range of seating, standing and outside areas during normal use, it would be capable of hosting bands, seminars, meetings, plays, weddings a whole multitude of events. Sound or noise pollution not being an issue as with certain town centre venues, parking and access are also excellent, local residents not affected.

The venue would be open as any other licenced premises in the town and run as any broad based community pub an attractive place to visit with the eye catching brewery to one corner providing specialist premium products and full all day call order menu. A Derngate, Roadmender, King Billy, APH all rolled into one. The only difference would be climb the steps inside the venue and you would walk out onto the upper tier of the stand and glimpse the superb green grass below. (Attract new support?)

The design is a large welcoming versatile community space open every day, 365 days a year other than the obvious match day restrictions when it would open the doors to public again one hour after final whistle. 

A full venue management team in place, bar staff, kitchen staff, cleaners, just as I employed when running a licenced premises myself.

We’ve seen locals save pubs, post offices you name it well I do believe there are 2000 or more locals and not so local supporters who would want to place their name to this proud and permanent new venue and stand.

I may need some help however so if anyone at The Trust or anyone on here has relevant experience, do you want to make it happen this time?
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« Reply #29726 on: October 26, 2021, 07:11:42 am »

https://www.ballast-nedam.com/what-we-do/projects/2020/johan-cruijff-arena
Looks like Ballast Nedam are build stadiums again.
I bet they still have the expansion plans for the north stand.
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Rule Britannia
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« Reply #29727 on: October 26, 2021, 07:23:20 am »

https://www.ballast-nedam.com/what-we-do/projects/2020/johan-cruijff-arena
Looks like Ballast Nedam are build stadiums again.
I bet they still have the expansion plans for the north stand.

Cheers mate. There's one image they have on this site that comes a tiny bit close!

I have discussed this idea with a few football watching hoteliers and bar owners here, some have run huge venues in London. Using that huge concourse space 365 days a year we can all see the potential of a venue this size but usable and as cosy as any pub when in normal day usage.

Think of a super Wetherspoons with 2000 odd seats on the roof!
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Shoemaker
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« Reply #29728 on: October 26, 2021, 07:41:53 am »

It’s not the time for separate ideas, the lads from the NHE need to work with the Trust we all need to join forces together for such a project. This plan is actually for a large licenced venue with a stand attached, not the other way around.

I’m absolutely serious about this but it would be a shame if I must return 6000 odd miles to push it. I can’t get back to the UK until next year but there’s no reason we couldn’t have a new community venue north stand in place and open for the 24/25 season.

Beds, I understand your desire for standing but the idea of rail standing on the upper tier will frighten the council and others. With this plan the lower tier will not have access to the upper tier they are separate entities, integrating the top tier with the concourse area for larger private events, non-football related only those who buy an upper ticket will have access. The existing lower tier would not be affected by this development and remain open throughout for the club to use as normal.

Once the exciting and captivating plans are complete (a smaller less attractive and less beneficial development will just not gain enough support) we need a prospectus for investors, a media campaign, launch and PR. When the ideas of this “Fans” stand gather media/social media attention it will fly. The Guardian are already poised to continue their story of Sixfields.

To be part of Cobblers history the first option is to “buy a seat” for £1500 (paid in 3 x £500 installments at set stages over 12 month period if preferred) You can buy as many seats as you wish for your family and everyone who buys a seat will have their name engraved in a plaque which will be part of the entrance façade. Other long term and sponsorship investor packages will be available.

This new north stand is in no way connected to the east stand development, an entirely separate fans, trust and public funded community project.

Key factors. No planning will be refused, the club and council cannot veto a development at a community venue supported and financed by the public.

All net revenue gained by this development after costs, wages etc will be used directly for club matters, to sponsor another Kion Etete or even purchase players. No monies will go directly to the club owners other than match day seat ticket revenue.  All bar, restaurant, brewery sales, corporate sales and other revenue to be retained by venue management.

There is no other iconic entertainment venue in the area capable of staging large indoor events, the venue (during no football) will still have a licensed capacity of 2000 with the concourse and bar area offering a range of seating, standing and outside areas during normal use, it would be capable of hosting bands, seminars, meetings, plays, weddings a whole multitude of events. Sound or noise pollution not being an issue as with certain town centre venues, parking and access are also excellent, local residents not affected.

The venue would be open as any other licenced premises in the town and run as any broad based community pub an attractive place to visit with the eye catching brewery to one corner providing specialist premium products and full all day call order menu. A Derngate, Roadmender, King Billy, APH all rolled into one. The only difference would be climb the steps inside the venue and you would walk out onto the upper tier of the stand and glimpse the superb green grass below. (Attract new support?)

The design is a large welcoming versatile community space open every day, 365 days a year other than the obvious match day restrictions when it would open the doors to public again one hour after final whistle. 

A full venue management team in place, bar staff, kitchen staff, cleaners, just as I employed when running a licenced premises myself.

We’ve seen locals save pubs, post offices you name it well I do believe there are 2000 or more locals and not so local supporters who would want to place their name to this proud and permanent new venue and stand.

I may need some help however so if anyone at The Trust or anyone on here has relevant experience, do you want to make it happen this time?

Couldn’t the club or new owners do this??
Why should supporters pay if they don’t own the club?

It’s like owning a pub on lease , spending money of your own doing it up and then it all reverts to the owners when the lease is up.

Spending money on something you don’t actually own is never sensible in my experience.

A nice idea but I’m out.
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Shoemender
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« Reply #29729 on: October 26, 2021, 07:57:16 am »

It’s not the time for separate ideas, the lads from the NHE need to work with the Trust we all need to join forces together for such a project. This plan is actually for a large licenced venue with a stand attached, not the other way around.

I’m absolutely serious about this but it would be a shame if I must return 6000 odd miles to push it. I can’t get back to the UK until next year but there’s no reason we couldn’t have a new community venue north stand in place and open for the 24/25 season.

Beds, I understand your desire for standing but the idea of rail standing on the upper tier will frighten the council and others. With this plan the lower tier will not have access to the upper tier they are separate entities, integrating the top tier with the concourse area for larger private events, non-football related only those who buy an upper ticket will have access. The existing lower tier would not be affected by this development and remain open throughout for the club to use as normal.

Once the exciting and captivating plans are complete (a smaller less attractive and less beneficial development will just not gain enough support) we need a prospectus for investors, a media campaign, launch and PR. When the ideas of this “Fans” stand gather media/social media attention it will fly. The Guardian are already poised to continue their story of Sixfields.

To be part of Cobblers history the first option is to “buy a seat” for £1500 (paid in 3 x £500 installments at set stages over 12 month period if preferred) You can buy as many seats as you wish for your family and everyone who buys a seat will have their name engraved in a plaque which will be part of the entrance façade. Other long term and sponsorship investor packages will be available.

This new north stand is in no way connected to the east stand development, an entirely separate fans, trust and public funded community project.

Key factors. No planning will be refused, the club and council cannot veto a development at a community venue supported and financed by the public.

All net revenue gained by this development after costs, wages etc will be used directly for club matters, to sponsor another Kion Etete or even purchase players. No monies will go directly to the club owners other than match day seat ticket revenue.  All bar, restaurant, brewery sales, corporate sales and other revenue to be retained by venue management.

There is no other iconic entertainment venue in the area capable of staging large indoor events, the venue (during no football) will still have a licensed capacity of 2000 with the concourse and bar area offering a range of seating, standing and outside areas during normal use, it would be capable of hosting bands, seminars, meetings, plays, weddings a whole multitude of events. Sound or noise pollution not being an issue as with certain town centre venues, parking and access are also excellent, local residents not affected.

The venue would be open as any other licenced premises in the town and run as any broad based community pub an attractive place to visit with the eye catching brewery to one corner providing specialist premium products and full all day call order menu. A Derngate, Roadmender, King Billy, APH all rolled into one. The only difference would be climb the steps inside the venue and you would walk out onto the upper tier of the stand and glimpse the superb green grass below. (Attract new support?)

The design is a large welcoming versatile community space open every day, 365 days a year other than the obvious match day restrictions when it would open the doors to public again one hour after final whistle. 

A full venue management team in place, bar staff, kitchen staff, cleaners, just as I employed when running a licenced premises myself.

We’ve seen locals save pubs, post offices you name it well I do believe there are 2000 or more locals and not so local supporters who would want to place their name to this proud and permanent new venue and stand.

I may need some help however so if anyone at The Trust or anyone on here has relevant experience, do you want to make it happen this time?


Top post Steve and certainly a plan I would support and be happy to donate to via the seat purchase idea.
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« Reply #29730 on: October 26, 2021, 08:20:03 am »

For those 2000 plus who subscribe to "buy a seat" they also receive a lifetime membership entitling them to 15% discount on all products and services from the bar, restaurant, brewery products, event or corporate bookings. (Excluding ticket price this is direct from the club)

Become a regular patron of the venue and you will receive your money back.

There will be 7800 other seats available for those who don't wish to be part of an historic fan driven development.
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« Reply #29731 on: October 26, 2021, 08:30:27 am »

Couldn’t the club or new owners do this??
Why should supporters pay if they don’t own the club?

It’s like owning a pub on lease , spending money of your own doing it up and then it all reverts to the owners when the lease is up.

Spending money on something you don’t actually own is never sensible in my experience.

A nice idea but I’m out.


I cant speak for the owners, maybe they don't want a permanent business in Northampton? They have enough on their plates, I only want to ensure the best for NTFC and put into the pot. I'm not too sure KT will mind us putting more money in his pocket though.

Sometimes you cannot own a prime position only utilise it for maximum potential, its not uncommon practice. Many large pubs, restaurants and coffee shops only lease the premises. Lease issues would be easily clarified and all parties will benefit.

If you wanted a coffee shop would you lease a suitable space opposite a busy railway station or buy one in the middle of nowhere?

This could put an extra £500.000 plus into the playing budget every year, so everyone benefits.

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« Reply #29732 on: October 26, 2021, 10:59:28 am »

Couldn’t the club or new owners do this??
Why should supporters pay if they don’t own the club?

It’s like owning a pub on lease , spending money of your own doing it up and then it all reverts to the owners when the lease is up.

Spending money on something you don’t actually own is never sensible in my experience.

A nice idea but I’m out.


I understand why you say that but I, (and hopefully more and more fans) feel that it is time for us (the fans) to have a bigger say in our football club.

Sixfields has basically stayed the same in 25 years despite the two recent owners saying redevelopment must happen. (we all know why they say that  Grin)

The council have a massive part to play, look around the country and almost every football club development involves their local council to some degree, some to the tune of tens of millions.

Our situation is that our owners want to sell the 22 acres of council land behind the East stand to create funds to complete a "basic" East stand.

So out of a deal worth approx £20m, NTFC benefit is that the East stand is completed by Buckingham (questions will be asked about that deal and why would Buckingham get involved with NTFC again ?) worth a max of £3m.

We are scheduled to even lose half of the running track, putting warehouses up to the boundary to potentially tower over and hem in the East stand.

It is the council that create that value, yes KT/DB have put into the books of NTFC, but as they own the football club, at the moment to me, there is no difference.

KT has not produced any plans or given myself or others, any confidence with his past actions, that any extra funds would benefit us exponentially.



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« Reply #29733 on: October 26, 2021, 11:53:24 am »

However,

It is an opportunity to kick start a real change for Sixfields, otherwise this final ? opportunity will be lost.

Should we be demanding a clearer and more imaginative vision for NTFC?

If "Sixfields" was to share in the land deal the opportunities become more exciting and potential to deliver a brighter future for NTFC, as those posts above are advocating.

Lets look at some numbers (only educated guesses at this stage  Grin)

The land deal creates £20m

After fees and costs of say 10% = £20m - £2m = £18m

£18m split 3 ways = £6m. 

KT / DB still gets a healthy profit on the land deal of £6m (from Northampton owned council land) and doesn't have to find £3m first to complete the East stand.

The Council get £6m and kudos of helping secure the future of Sixfields (especially as Freeholders)

Sixfields get a starting fund of £6m to develop as the fans want. 

Further investment from fans and business could easily boost that number by £4m or more with grants, bonds, investment etc.

Suddenly we have a £10m infrastructure pot to create a Sixfields to be proud of and capable of supporting our goal of an established L1 club.

Think in L2 are there any decent grounds? I can't think of any, some biggish ones but they are tired. L1 has a mixture, it's not coincidence that higher up the leagues you go the better the infrastructure.

It must be a priority for us fans. We have to tell the council we want more.

This is not an anti KT post, we have an opportunity, it can't be ignored, come on KT, look at the potential we have, do you want to be part of our future, why not create something really exciting here? 



 

 
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« Reply #29734 on: October 26, 2021, 13:02:19 pm »

I'm personally torn on this. As I have said before I would back something tangible for the fans, such as a fan park... really like the idea of a micro brewery. Could either be fully independent or join forces with Phipps or Frog Island etc. But I am also on the side that the owners should pay to improve the infrastructure with regards to stands, seats etc. On the whole though I would support what has been mentioned above given the right due diligence etc.
I think for anything like this to stand any chance though all 3 parties need to work together as Random mentioned and as per the recent Trust Statement after the council reps meeting.
But as the owners have clearly laid out their plans, I think any due diligence would need to be done by the fans led by the Trust or groups such as the NHE and then presented to the club to get them to change their plans, or at least add to them. If we rely on or expect the owners to get anything up and running then we will still be where we are now.
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« Reply #29735 on: October 26, 2021, 13:20:06 pm »

For those 2000 plus who subscribe to "buy a seat" they also receive a lifetime membership entitling them to 15% discount on all products and services from the bar, restaurant, brewery products, event or corporate bookings. (Excluding ticket price this is direct from the club)

Become a regular patron of the venue and you will receive your money back.

There will be 7800 other seats available for those who don't wish to be part of an historic fan driven development.
I’m sorry but this is wishful thinking.
The land that the structure would stand on would belong to the club owner not the fans.

The idea is commendable but unworkable.
Owners with ambition and foresight would probably consider this a wise move but asking fans to do it when the owners don’t seem keen is not the way to go imo.

You never know what’s round the corner in football
Fans could chip in their money , new owners could come in , the club could be badly run and then liquidated.
You’d get £0 of the money back that you invested and the area could be bulldozed for housing.

If this idea is to get off the ground it would need owners who believe in it.
Have you asked David bower what he thinks of it?

He may be able to tell you if it’s a good idea or not.

If a new owner came in he would be within his rights not to honour any previous arrangements (for example KT wanting the trust rep off of the board)
Thus there is no way an offer of a percentage discount for life would be legally applicable.
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« Reply #29736 on: October 26, 2021, 14:09:31 pm »

I’m sorry but this is wishful thinking.
The land that the structure would stand on would belong to the club owner not the fans.

The idea is commendable but unworkable.
Owners with ambition and foresight would probably consider this a wise move but asking fans to do it when the owners don’t seem keen is not the way to go imo.

You never know what’s round the corner in football
Fans could chip in their money , new owners could come in , the club could be badly run and then liquidated.
You’d get £0 of the money back that you invested and the area could be bulldozed for housing.

If this idea is to get off the ground it would need owners who believe in it.
Have you asked David bower what he thinks of it?

He may be able to tell you if it’s a good idea or not.

If a new owner came in he would be within his rights not to honour any previous arrangements (for example KT wanting the trust rep off of the board)
Thus there is no way an offer of a percentage discount for life would be legally applicable.

It should be owner led and fan supported perhaps but not sure KT would agree.

KT wants the Trust to back his proposals for a land deal but we need more from our 'once in generation opportunity'  of Council owned land.
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« Reply #29737 on: October 26, 2021, 14:52:15 pm »

I agree

I’m reading a lot of words but has anybody approached the club regards this?
It’s unfair to knock them until they offer an opinion.

If nobody is going to ask David bower what he thinks then we should just shelve the idea.
Without David’s wholehearted backing it is a non runner.
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« Reply #29738 on: October 26, 2021, 14:56:16 pm »

Actually couldn’t those raising the idea get in touch with the new fans rep Tom to raise the subject at the next board meeting and report back to the forum.

Surely this is just what the fans rep is for….
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« Reply #29739 on: October 26, 2021, 15:03:40 pm »

Actually couldn’t those raising the idea get in touch with the new fans rep Tom to raise the subject at the next board meeting and report back to the forum.

Surely this is just what the fans rep is for….
The New Hotel End Did....
Quote
Cobblers chief executive James Whiting said: "Kelvin (Thomas) and I had a good meeting with Tom on Zoom and he talked us through the concept which, of course, conceptually looks very interesting.
“We did stress this has to be a fan-led initiative as we do not know the national or even local music scene and wouldn’t have the skill set or knowledge base to know if a music venue like this was even viable.
“Tom explained the Trust was providing funding for the project so we expect they have already done some research if they have committed funds and we agreed with Tom that we would be interested in further discussion as they develop the viability and the costings further.
“We discussed, if the viability looks good and they are successful on the financing raise, then probably the best approach would be like the GT’s at Plymouth Argyle where the supporters group lease or rent the space to run the facility.
“Kelvin has also since spoken to the chairman at Plymouth to find out more how that operates, and we expect a follow up call or Zoom with Tom and the group as they develop more details on the project.”

The bit I have highlighted is key to me and what I said above, we / The Trust / The NHE / Whoever it is, need to demonstrate the benefit with actual case studies, costings, P&L, letters of intent, etc before the owners will entertain anything.  We've seen they have to see profit before doing anything with the disagreement over what is developed first, the land or the stand. This is what I thought the NHE were doing since their grand unveiling. I dont think it will take much for them or anyone else to pick it back up, use crowdfunding to pay for the business case before going back to the club. Bit like Dragons den.
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