Redevelopment Closer Than Ever?

[guest3494]

As TFAMH referenced above, part 3 of the Trust's model rules are interesting.
 
That states:
 
3. COMMUNITY BENEFIT PURPOSE
The Society’s purpose is to be the vehicle through which a healthy, balanced and constructive relationship between the Club and its supporters and the communities it serves is encouraged and developed. The business of the Society is to be conducted for the benefit of the community served by the Club and not for the profit of its members.
 
One would have to argue that the Trust is failing in its Community Benefit Purpose.
 
It comes across as a militant organisation, one that lacks leadership, discipline and is detached from the views of the majority of supporters.
 
Every barometer that you wish to take suggests the Trust don't have the support, backing or even a relationship with the vast majority of support and anyone who questions anything the Trust does is met with aggression or accusation, leading to the already huge disconnect between the Trust and the fanbase growing even wider.
 
The Trust flip flops. One day the problem is the club are not spending enough money. Our budget is not big enough. The next day the debt is too big. What do we have to show for the debt? Well, guess what, running an EFL club costs money. Just about every club loses money. Sure, some clubs have good years and through cup runs or player sales they make a profit but most run at considerable losses. What do we have to show for our money? A club in the EFL, a community club that helps people, a womens and girls team to be proud of, a better academy. Do I want more, of course I do? Do I want the club to risk everything by spending more money, raising funds through a bond (increasing the club's debt and that has to be repaid by the way, it is not free money) no I don't. Maybe I am not ambitious enough but to take this step by step, bit by bit, the next step is to complete the East Stand and reduce the debt while not putting the club at risk. That's good enough for me on the next part of our journey and the sensible way to go about things in my opinion.
 
The Trust is not learning. It is repeating the same mistakes, time and time again. Even this week we have seen a Trust board member on Twitter call a Councillor 'bent', something the Trust's legal adviser retweeted. How on earth do the Trust think they can have a relationship with the Council around the ACV Land with such social media posts? Words have consequences.
 
To get anywhere with the ACV bid, not only do you have to have raised the money you need by the end of August, you need to have some sort of relationship with the seller (West Northants Council) and the long term leaseholder (the club). For anyone in any doubt, there is no chance of either organisation getting on board with the Trust due to the tone and content of Trust statements and social media posts by board members. It will not happen. If you were the club or the Council, would you partner with these guys?
 
The old argument about 'I was posting in my own name and not on behalf of the Trust' is nonsense. Whether you like it or not, your words and messages are taken as representative of the Trust and they have consequences. When you take on a position you have responsibilities, again, whether you like it or not. You cannot switch it off and on.
 
Then we have other Trust board members on here and on social media going back aggressively at supporters who dare to question things. Where is the discipline, the tact, the diplomacy that a fan group needs to unite the support?
 
Surely, surely, someone somewhere has to just stop and when the Trust's own travel club splits off because it is embarrassed to be associated with the Trust someone somewhere must have to think, maybe, just maybe, we have got this wrong. Maybe we have misjudged things. Maybe we have misread the mood of the fans. Maybe we need to build bridges. Or maybe not, maybe we just carry on with our mix of aggression and confrontation, after all it has worked so well up to now…..
 
The Trust cannot hold the club to account anymore because the club have cut them off. To hold anyone to account you need to make judgement calls and have a balance of supporting when you can and questioning when you need to. The Trust have just attacked, attacked and attacked and now they are cut off and seen as a group of ridicule by many of my fellow supporters.
 
This brings us back to the point at the start, how does any of this fit with the Community Benefit Purpose which is part of the Trust's Governance Rules.
 
It doesn't. The Trust has become an aggressive, militant organisation that the fanbase is embarrassed to be associated with. That's the truth and no amount of 'what about KT or I've been a fan for 50 years so I know best' will change that. Action is the only thing that will change that, action with tact, maturity and diplomacy.
 
Cue attacks now from the vocal Trust board members but as a Cobblers fan and Trust member for many years, that's how I see it.
 
The Trust has failed. That is a shame, the club needs a healthy Trust but this Trust is not fit for purpose. It is an aggressive group that drives a wedge between them and every group or organisation they should be building bridges with and now those bridges have been burnt beyond repair.
 

Well said.
Well said indeed....
As for the bit about retweets from a legal advisor.... Well well well.
One rule for us and.....

[guest3481]

sorry but that is simply not true Tcobb

Can I politely ask, has Tom Cliffe made one single change or improvement for the fans benefit since becoming a Director. Again with respect I am talking about actions not words. I have heard quite a few times now that they didn't agree with what was said but he "took it on board"

The Trust had a booth outside the West stand for quite a few seasons.

Sorry if you didn't see it or you got missed in a crowd of 4000. Again easy to blame someone else. In todays world, social media is engaging with fans. I have asked you and many others, many many times for your ideas, thoughts and feedback but nothing. PM me and I will give you my phone number, I would be very happy to have a chat, meet up, whatever. That goes for everyone on here.

https://www.ntfc.co.uk/news/2021/december/getting_together/

[guest3494]

That’s your opinion, not all fans share such a myopic view, the Trust isn’t perfect I agree but they have the best interests of the club at heart.
Just out of interest what have you done to proactively help the club?

Is RChurch Bob Church.... Current and long standing director?
Possibly not but if it is, he's done his bit I'd suggest....

[Manwork04]

Is RChurch Bob Church.... Current and long standing director?
Possibly not but if it is, he's done his bit I'd suggest....

😂 he could be Farther Christmas…..hence why I asked.

[guest168]

Been at the County Ground tonight for another showcase of top T20 cricket and the transformation of it since the Cobblers left is immense really with some great hospitality facilities too. It's a a fine County cricket ground. In that time Sixfields has sadly declined. There's less money in cricket so how have they managed it?

I was there too Wadey. I totally agree

The cricket club have done an amazing job both on and off the field.

It is run by local people who are professionally and passionate about their sport and the community they serve.

They have managed it by focussing on developing the club in an ongoing manner with medium and long term objectives

OH and they don't pay silly footballers wages and don't have any other land to distract them from their goals

[guest3481]

Is RChurch Bob Church.... Current and long standing director?
Possibly not but if it is, he's done his bit I'd suggest....

Erm... didn't that Bob Church die a couple of years ago. Apologies if not Bob

[guest168]

I for one value the updates from random and the efforts the trust are going to to get a better deal for the club (whatever those plans are, I await with hope and an open mind).  Honestly, it beggars belief the amount of criticism on here for the trust.  Equally it beggars belief the number of people that are blindly lapping up all the BS quoted by KT for YEARS with no end results.  Just delay, delay, delay, BS fake news "the fans and the club have never been closer", "the trust are delaying us completing the east stand" yada yada.  Wake up and smell the coffee and see what's going on here people.  The Trust have the best interests at heart here, can you really say the same about KT/DB?

Thank you Gomez, it is appreciated.

My posts are many for the silent ones on here, so glad you posted your support.

Your last sentence is it all in a nutshell.

[guest168]

https://www.ntfc.co.uk/news/2021/december/getting_together/

Good stuff obviously and pretty sure the community team do this on a daily basis.

[guest3481]

Good stuff obviously and pretty sure the community team do this on a daily basis.

Hahah 

[guest168]

https://www.northamptonchron.co.uk/news/politics/council-sale-of-sixfields-land-to-northampton-town-football-club-wrong-for-a-number-of-reasons-say-rival-bidders-3726907

It becomes even more complicated..

LOL the quality of the Chronic is shocking.

Yesterday they use an image of the land with the wrong land split on them, the CDNL bid is for land all the way up to the running track now. Obviously this was changed last minute through the back door so not a surprise they got it wrong.

Today: They talk about Cilldara upset about land value of the ACV land / running track. Cilldara £3m bid does not include the 3.61 acres of ACV land

[Battery Man]

LOL the quality of the Chronic is shocking.

Yesterday they use an image of the land with the wrong land split on them, the CDNL bid is for land all the way up to the running track now. Obviously this was changed last minute through the back door so not a surprise they got it wrong.

Today: They talk about Cilldara upset about land value of the ACV land / running track. Cilldara £3m bid does not include the 3.61 acres of ACV land

Random, didn't the clubs bid have a future % for the council, did Cilldara's. I am not 100% on that but I am sure I read it somewhere

[guest3481]

LOL the quality of the Chronic is shocking.

Yesterday they use an image of the land with the wrong land split on them, the CDNL bid is for land all the way up to the running track now. Obviously this was changed last minute through the back door so not a surprise they got it wrong.

Today: They talk about Cilldara upset about land value of the ACV land / running track. Cilldara £3m bid does not include the 3.61 acres of ACV land

Generally dont disagree with the opening line but you missed this bit from the article "Cilldara did not bid for the running track land but it is believed they will argue that the council did not get best value for its council tax payers."

[Grove]

Best post on this thread by miles.

Agreed

[FezNTFC]

Fez, that's an old argument that doesn't hold water.  It's time for the Trust to put their head above the parapet and engage with the supporters.
Like him or not, but Tom Cliffe puts himself out there and engages with the supporters,  I had a conversation with him at Orient away, he approached me and started asking questions, we didn't agree on everything discussed,  and he took on board my concerns. In 30 years of the Trust never once has anybody from the Trust approached me at a game and asked my opinions,  years ago I suggested that the Trust engage with the supporters on match days, the reply I got was, "You know where we are come and talk to us"
So to keep saying join us and change it is just a cop out. Engage with the support base, attend matches, find out what the supporters want. Don't just sit there telling us it's our fault because we won't join the board.

For once I agree with you in that Tom is doing a wonderful job - he's visible, approachable and everything you want from someone who holds that role. I speak with him before every game and really enjoy our chats. It's a real shame that the owners were so resistant to that kind of position for so long, I think it would have prevented a lot of the mudslinging that we're now seeing.

But I'm sorry my argument, although old, is not an invalid one. A lot of people on here seem angry with the direction the Trust is taking, do not feel it is following its mission statement and feel they are being ignored. My question is, if you feel that way and feel like the current board aren't going to change their approach or listen to feedback, why are you all waiting for a change that you clearly don't think is going to happen and letting them crack on with it?

[Carton Lid]

 My question is, if you feel that way and feel like the current board aren't going to change their approach or listen to feedback, why are you all waiting for a change that you clearly don't think is going to happen and letting them crack on with it?

Because it's so much easier to sit behind a keyboard and call the people who got off their arses and did something, than to actually do something themselves 

[Carton Lid]

Fez, that's an old argument that doesn't hold water.  It's time for the Trust to put their head above the parapet and engage with the supporters.
Like him or not, but Tom Cliffe puts himself out there and engages with the supporters,  I had a conversation with him at Orient away, he approached me and started asking questions, we didn't agree on everything discussed,  and he took on board my concerns. In 30 years of the Trust never once has anybody from the Trust approached me at a game and asked my opinions,  

   So do you know Tom personally ? if so that's probably why he approached you for a chat. In the same context, I was regularly approached by various Trust board members, asking my opinion on various things, long before I joined the board but that was because I knew them. I very much doubt that Tom would walk up to a total stranger in the away end and ask their thoughts on how the club is run because he has enough people approach him anyway.

[BackOfTheNet]

Sorry, but I think the "if you don't like it join yourself and change it" mantra is a very lazy argument. If you disagree with what the council do (which, let's face it, is most of the time) you could run as a councillor. If you don't like how the country is run you could stand as an MP. Most people don't though because they have neither the time nor the inclination to do so. That doesn't preclude them from having the right to an opinion on the job that others are doing in those roles though. The same applies to the Trust. I fundamentally disagree with a lot of what they do, a lot of what they say and even more with the way a lot of them tend to say it.

Just because they chose to take up a position while others chose not to doesn't put them on a pedestal.

[BackOfTheNet]

For the record, I said a while back why I personally don't want to get involved, so rather than repeat myself..

A couple of weeks ago I actually contemplated trying to get involved but decided against it for two sets of reasons. The first set are personal -  I'm so busy at work at the moment I can't get everything done as it is and with elderly parents to care for and 4 kids to ferry about I barely get to spend any proper time with my wife, so throwing another commitment into the mix just won't work.

The second set are more about the realities of it...

• On your own you'd be a lone voice against seemingly united board (if the unanimous ACV vote is anything to go by). To have any hope of affecting the sea change that would be required to change the Trust's course you'd need a group of people to run for election together.
• I'm not currently a member. To get involved I'd have to join and by doing so I'd be effectively adding weight to the numbers used to justify the Trust's reach. It's a catch 22 I know, but it doesn't feel right to me.
• I don't want to sound rude here but there's no nice way to say it - I don't think I'd get on with many of the existing board because, frankly, a lot of them (and their advisors) just don't come across as very nice people.  It could be they are all lovely in real life and are just unused to dealing with others on social media, but some of them just don't come over very well (I exclude GPC and Andy Roberts from that)
• This one I really can't quantify, but from reading the minutes and the comms and the articles on the website I just don't think I'd enjoy it. It all just seems so staid, formal, boring and utterly lacking in dynamism. I'd just get frustrated by the "by the book" bureaucracy and structure. This is a view that has only been reinforced by the feedback on the podcast the other day from the guy that attended a Trust meeting.

It's a shame because I really see the value of a supporters trust, I just can't agree with the actions or the conduct of the current board. Part of me genuinely would like to get involved but the bigger part realised it just wouldn't work for me. It would just end up being bad for my health!

[super-si]

That’s your opinion, not all fans share such a myopic view, the Trust isn’t perfect I agree but they have the best interests of the club at heart.
Just out of interest what have you done to proactively help the club?

Your response makes me feel that you failed to understand the content of RChurch's post, Manwork. Myopic is a favourite word for anyone who isn't listening and always thinks they are right.

[tcobb]

Carton, No i dont know Tom personally, when he approached me for a chat it was the very first time i had met/spoke to him. I did have an ongoing problem with the Club at that time which he offered to help with, but i turned his offer of help down. I had a constructive chat that was far from "pally"
Again i state that nobody from the Trust has ever engaged myself in a conversation in 30 years, unless i approached them first.
Random and yourself are always dismissive of any suggestion that the Trust should be more proactive in connecting with the fan base, always throwing it back at people with the "if you dont like it change " attitude.
I have put ideas forward for change many times, the last ones i put forward a few years ago, i was told that the ideas would be presented to the Board and they would get back to me, still waiting for a reply four years later !!!