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Redevelopment Closer Than Ever?

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Author Topic: Redevelopment Closer Than Ever?  (Read 1368902 times)
Deepcut Cobbler
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« Reply #34560 on: July 27, 2022, 09:54:58 am »

"Each club has been given a rating out of 100, with the lowest rated teams first up."
And then the first team is Doncaster at the top with 90.26 of whatever?
Lost it's credibility immediately.
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« Reply #34561 on: July 27, 2022, 10:10:23 am »

"Each club has been given a rating out of 100, with the lowest rated teams first up."
And then the first team is Doncaster at the top with 90.26 of whatever?
Lost it's credibility immediately.

I did have a glance and 'predicted' that Barrow would be 24th. I wasn't wrong!!  Grin
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« Reply #34562 on: July 27, 2022, 10:22:19 am »

Given we're supposedly so tinpot and underdeveloped, I thought this was interesting in the Chron yesterday.

https://www.northamptonchron.co.uk/sport/football/the-league-two-teams-with-the-best-and-worst-infrastructure-and-where-mansfield-town-northampton-town-doncaster-roves-hartlepool-united-crawley-town-and-grimsby-town-rank-3781437

We're pretty much midtable in League 2.

Also, referring to the club's considerable community efforts as "token gestures" is hugely disrespectful to the large number of people who both work and voluntarily give up their time to deliver them. Maybe pick up a copy of Rodney Marshall's book "Only Connect" so you have a clue what you are talking about, Beds?
Firstly they put us in a favourable lowly 16th place, we should be bottom if all things were properly considered.

Secondly I'm not belittling the great efforts of volunteers working on community projects,  it's the fact the owners  and co use this as a shield to hide their inadequate progress in the urgent need to build up the clubs infrastructure.. Not that I'm expecting them to do it anyway  Grin


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« Reply #34563 on: July 27, 2022, 10:26:25 am »

"Each club has been given a rating out of 100, with the lowest rated teams first up."
And then the first team is Doncaster at the top with 90.26 of whatever?
Lost it's credibility immediately.

Just because the Chronic's clickbait department get hold of something and present it in a shoddy fashion doesn't diminish the value of the underlying research, which is worthy of consideration at least because it was written by a recognised academic.

A quick Google dug up this (which I admit I have only skimmed as I haven't yet had a chance to read it properly):

https://blog.betvictor.com/campaigns/most-investible-football-clubs/

This seems to encompass the part about infrastructure ratings.

On a lighter note, everyone's favourite legal advisor has peeped out from under his tin hat on Facebook to suggest I am, and I quote, "a club insider?" for thinking being 14th in this study is alright, neatly illustrating the point Peter made a short while ago!!


Edit: I've now had a proper look at this and I think it's from a while back. We score 48% here rather than 62% so either a) the methodology has changed b) the scores have been revised or c) the Chron have got it wrong, but in the data given here the score is composed of:

10% - Stadium Age - 7%
15% - Stadium Condition  - 3%
15% - Training Facilities - 8.5%
10% - Youth Facilities  - 8.5%
20% - Youth Recruitment - 10%
20% - Corporate Facilities - 11%
10% - Transport Links - 0%

Whatever has changed, this at least gives an idea of the methodology used.
« Last Edit: July 27, 2022, 11:03:58 am by BackOfTheNet » Report Spam   Logged

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« Reply #34564 on: July 27, 2022, 10:31:53 am »

I couldn’t work that table out could you?
Really didn’t make much sense without an explanation under each score.
Basically,  if you have just 6400 seats to sell for big games to an inclusive catchment of over 300,000 within 10 miles.
Have no corporate boxes.
No good sized matchday supporters bar.
Zero growth in attendances during the past 20 years.
Low involvement with local business  and sponsorships .

You will be bottom of the teams listed.
Hope that helps.
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« Reply #34565 on: July 27, 2022, 10:32:20 am »

A more professionally organised, ambitious and Northampton and county centric club, one that has vision and targets that works closely with the town it represents.
(Pease avoid pointing out the clubs token gestures in the community,  that is expected of all clubs).


See all our rivals, Posh Oxford, MK etc and those of Rotherham Doncaster Brentford Lincoln, Preston etc etc that kind of club.
(Please avoid pointing out Rushden and Darlington as an excuse for ntfc to remain giving thanks for our lowly and debt ridden position)
So in one post you criticise accumulating debt and in the next you run off a string of clubs with debt that dwarfs ours. Peterborough £14 million, at Brentford the owner is in for £100 million, MK £13 million in debt, over at Rotherham Tony Stewart is reportedly in for £50 million etc. So which is it, eye watering debt or not and if the former who exactly is putting there hand in their pocket? You must have had another bang on the head? I’m sorry but if you are going to keep coming out with these ridiculous statements you have to realise they will inevitably get shoved back up your arśe.
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« Reply #34566 on: July 27, 2022, 10:41:10 am »

So in one post you criticise accumulating debt and in the next you run off a string of clubs with debt that dwarfs ours. Peterborough £14 million, at Brentford the owner is in for £100 million, MK £13 million in debt, over at Rotherham Tony Stewart is reportedly in for £50 million etc. So which is it, eye watering debt or not and if the former who exactly is putting there hand in their pocket? You must have had another bang on the head? I’m sorry but if you are going to keep coming out with these ridiculous statements you have to realise they will inevitably get shoved back up your arśe.
For most these clubs those debts are chicken feed. Yes they show up on the accounts but they have a good income streams,  play higher up the leagues and subsequently have attracted substantial investments..
It's only when you deliberately remain a lowly league club, attracting very little investment,  suffer growth stagnation it becomes a major problem..
Growth is good, stagnation not.
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« Reply #34567 on: July 27, 2022, 11:05:55 am »

**** me, £100m debt is chickenfeed to Beds. Harry Enfield must have been right!
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« Reply #34568 on: July 27, 2022, 11:17:13 am »

I think you miss the point here - firstly anyone who blames the trust for anything outside their sphere of influence is just being stupid and looking back I really can’t see any such examples - yes there are a few one liners against the trust but again actually not that many - Nigel’s point and I share the frustration is that one can support the overall objectives of the Trust, agree with some but not all of their views and actions (surely the fundamentals of a democratic organisation?) - however if one doesn’t join the chorus of criticism directed towards the owners, one is insulted & patronised by some of the more vitriolic trust members and advisers- these same individuals consistently state there is no dialogue from KT towards the trust - but do they really think their continued action is going to improve that situation? - even the ACV will require a degree of cooperation and while the Trust continue to have some (but certainly not all) individuals who seem more concerned about being right than trying to improve relationships I continue to have concerns. What really hacks me off with these individuals whilst always willing to criticise the owners never offer a positive comment on anything the club does well off the field - and yet they somehow claim the title of being better, wiser supporters than the rest of us.
  Peter my line about Global warming ect was a joke that some posters blame the Trust for everything. Where you say  "however if one doesn’t join the chorus of criticism directed towards the owners, one is insulted & patronised by some of the more vitriolic trust members and advisers" is really, in my opinion, not true nowadays as the only Trust board member who posts on here is GPC and he is always very polite.
   You talk about dialogue with KT and co-operation, well even back in my days on the Trust ,it was made quite clear that there was very little desire to work with the Trust on very much at all. I have some great examples of this but I'm not putting them on here, otherwise I'll be accused of being anti-club, and when you've been a supporter for over 60 years is, obviously, not true.
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« Reply #34569 on: July 27, 2022, 11:21:15 am »

  Peter my line about Global warming ect was a joke that some posters blame the Trust for everything. Where you say  "however if one doesn’t join the chorus of criticism directed towards the owners, one is insulted & patronised by some of the more vitriolic trust members and advisers" is really, in my opinion, not true nowadays as the only Trust board member who posts on here is GPC and he is always very polite.
   You talk about dialogue with KT and co-operation, well even back in my days on the Trust ,it was made quite clear that there was very little desire to work with the Trust on very much at all. I have some great examples of this but I'm not putting them on here, otherwise I'll be accused of being anti-club, and when you've been a supporter for over 60 years is, obviously, not true.

In fairness Roger I think Peter was referring more to other channels than in here. The people he refers to are more active on Facebook and (I believe) Twitter.

I'm not a Twitter user myself but I certainly recognise the behaviour he mentions on Facebook.
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« Reply #34570 on: July 27, 2022, 11:39:01 am »

In fairness Roger I think Peter was referring more to other channels than in here. The people he refers to are more active on Facebook and (I believe) Twitter.

I'm not a Twitter user myself but I certainly recognise the behaviour he mentions on Facebook.

Exactly that - thanks for clarifying for me

Carlton - I apologise if you felt I was inferring you or indeed anyone on this board with my reference - definitely not the case as I've always thought you comments well thought out and respectful (as indeed are GPC's).

I fully understand the point you make about KT not wanting proper dialog with the trust - but my point being, even if he is 99.9% to blame for this situation how does the repetitive accusations and insults help in anyway to resolve this issue?

My comments are not and never have been anti trust but they are certainly not supportive of the approach and manner of some individuals who support or represent the trust - these individual can't have it both ways as if they are speaking as individual (as they often claim) and I criticise their lack of respect to other opinions it simply cannot be an anti trust comment to which they frequently accuse.

Ultimately I believe there needs to be some unity here and ego driven views that I'm 100% right and the other guy is 100% wrong will not serve the club we all want to progress well.

 
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« Reply #34571 on: July 27, 2022, 11:43:19 am »

Just because the Chronic's clickbait department get hold of something and present it in a shoddy fashion doesn't diminish the value of the underlying research, which is worthy of consideration at least because it was written by a recognised academic.


To be fair to the C&E, it is reproduced on a number of websites in exactly the same format.

Transport links: 0% ?
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« Reply #34572 on: July 27, 2022, 11:50:17 am »

To be fair to the C&E, it is reproduced on a number of websites in exactly the same format.

Transport links: 0% ?


Yeah, it's across all the Johnston Press websites, they've just tailored the opening prose to their local team.

The transport links are a simple yes or no and we get "no". Considering the proximity to the motorway and railway station I'd say that's harsh, so I'm presuming they mean do they have their own station/metro stop etc.
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« Reply #34573 on: July 27, 2022, 12:03:17 pm »

Come on now Nigel, you know dam well that there are some posters on here who blame the Trust for global warming , Brexit and the Russian invasion, so don't come up with "The only one way street here, is with the anti club brigade", you know that's b*llocks and so does everyone else, it really is a two way street and you know it.
Not have you totally missed my point. You’ve managed to do it in your now familiar rude way.

All I said was, that it is a one way street in terms of compromise. Meaning that a number of so called “anti Trust” contributors, frequently praise the Trust and certainly support their stance on the ACV. Where as there does not seem to be any acknowledgement of the vast majority of good work that goes on at the club from the contributors I pointed out.

I fail to see how that honest point, managed to get such an aggressive response from you… 
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« Reply #34574 on: July 27, 2022, 12:09:19 pm »

For most these clubs those debts are chicken feed. Yes they show up on the accounts but they have a good income streams,  play higher up the leagues and subsequently have attracted substantial investments..
It's only when you deliberately remain a lowly league club, attracting very little investment,  suffer growth stagnation it becomes a major problem..
Growth is good, stagnation not.
Truly incredible, even for you, and that’s saying something.
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« Reply #34575 on: July 27, 2022, 12:11:37 pm »

Yeah, it's across all the Johnston Press websites, they've just tailored the opening prose to their local team.

The transport links are a simple yes or no and we get "no". Considering the proximity to the motorway and railway station I'd say that's harsh, so I'm presuming they mean do they have their own station/metro stop etc.

Agree, in my opinion, our accessibility (road/rail and bus) and car parking are a lot better than the vast majority of places we visit.
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« Reply #34576 on: July 27, 2022, 12:41:55 pm »

It’s click bait rubbish - no substance and reminds me of a conversation with Liz Truss

Blimey, so your mixing with Liz Truss - well done you Travelling must have cost a bit ?
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« Reply #34577 on: July 27, 2022, 12:58:22 pm »

Just because the Chronic's clickbait department get hold of something and present it in a shoddy fashion doesn't diminish the value of the underlying research, which is worthy of consideration at least because it was written by a recognised academic.

A quick Google dug up this (which I admit I have only skimmed as I haven't yet had a chance to read it properly):

https://blog.betvictor.com/campaigns/most-investible-football-clubs/

This seems to encompass the part about infrastructure ratings.

On a lighter note, everyone's favourite legal advisor has peeped out from under his tin hat on Facebook to suggest I am, and I quote, "a club insider?" for thinking being 14th in this study is alright, neatly illustrating the point Peter made a short while ago!!


Edit: I've now had a proper look at this and I think it's from a while back. We score 48% here rather than 62% so either a) the methodology has changed b) the scores have been revised or c) the Chron have got it wrong, but in the data given here the score is composed of:

10% - Stadium Age - 7%
15% - Stadium Condition  - 3%
15% - Training Facilities - 8.5%
10% - Youth Facilities  - 8.5%
20% - Youth Recruitment - 10%
20% - Corporate Facilities - 11%
10% - Transport Links - 0%

Whatever has changed, this at least gives an idea of the methodology used.
The one criteria that stands out for me is stadium condition 3% our owners really should be ashamed, replacing broken windows and a lick of paint isn’t going to break the bank, it proves one thing though their pride and interest in our football club is about 3%.
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« Reply #34578 on: July 27, 2022, 13:57:40 pm »

Basically,  if you have just 6400 seats to sell for big games to an inclusive catchment of over 300,000 within 10 miles.
Have no corporate boxes.
No good sized matchday supporters bar.
Zero growth in attendances during the past 20 years.
Low involvement with local business  and sponsorships .

You will be bottom of the teams listed.
Hope that helps.

Wow, the analytical skills of stewed baked beans.
You literally just spew out whatever comes into your head don’t you?
As I said previously, I think you need some professional help David.
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« Reply #34579 on: July 27, 2022, 14:53:30 pm »

I need to digest this before commenting but wow just wow on so many (not good) levels

Northampton Town Supporters Trust has been forced to withdraw the development plan it was seeking to bring forward for the old athletics track land behind the East Stand at Sixfields.

The Trust's joint venture partner, Northampton-based Goodwill Solutions CIC, had devised a robust and fully-costed business plan for the 3.61 acres site (an Asset of Community Value) which would have delivered investment in the infrastructure of the football club in the short to medium term.

This plan was presented to West Northamptonshire Council's leadership team at a meeting on 27 June 2022.

But it seems that shortly after the meeting information was leaked and Goodwill came under intense pressure from several quarters to withdraw from its involvement in the plan.

Among those applying the pressure, via a telephone call to Goodwill, was Cobblers chairman Kelvin Thomas.

According to Goodwill's projections, the plan would have yielded profit for the Trust of up to £250,000 a year from a commercial Boxpark development and a lorry park, which would have flexed as a fanzone on matchdays. The plan also included car parking directly behind the East Stand of the stadium.

This development profit would have been placed by the Trust in an infrastructure fund and the money would have been ring fenced to build the club's asset base and improve facilities at the stadium, thereby enhancing the matchday experience for Cobblers fans. There has been little or no investment in the stadium since 2015 other than the installation of seats in the unfinished East Stand.

We would question why any football club chairman would go out of his way to stop supporters from embarking on a scheme that would provide his club with ongoing funds - especially when they have shown no interest in this piece of land previously, it being adjacent to the stadium and subject to a long lease.

The owners also failed to sit down with a developer looking to deliver a fan-led New Hotel End project at Sixfields.

Andy Roberts, chair of Northampton Town Supporters Trust, said: "We have always said that this land at Sixfields should be ring fenced for club and community benefit.

"We believed our partnership with Goodwill would have delivered a viable and imaginative plan for the land which ticked so many boxes for both the football club, its supporters, visiting supporters and the town of Northampton.

"But it now appears that significant pressure was placed on Goodwill to withdraw.

"The intervention from the club chairman came as no great surprise, indeed we warned Goodwill that it was likely.

"It is the latest in a series of actions by the club's owners and executive, over many years, designed to undermine and discredit the Trust.

"The intervention is even more disappointing, given that the deal the owners have on the table with the council in no way guarantees the East Stand being completed, nor does it provide for any ongoing investment benefit for our football club.

"We question, as all supporters should, as to why  there is no longer any guarantee of the stand's completion in the plan of the club owners?

"It should be the foundation stone of any deal under consideration and the fact that it isn't is entirely unacceptable.

"After all, the owners have been at the club for almost seven years. They promised to finish the stand in 2015 and were given the green light to do so three years later.

"They have done nothing and there is no certainty that anything will be done.

"The Trust will now continue to explore other options for the old athletics track land in the time available to us."

The Supporters Trust has until 3 September to make a bid to buy the land behind the East Stand - the old athletics track land, comprising 3.61 acres. There is no obligation on the freehold owners, West Northamptonshire Council, to accept the bid.

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