Redevelopment Closer Than Ever?

[Melbourne Cobbler]

I had some leek a couple of weeks ago, first time in years, quite liked the taste of the stuff!! 

In all seriousness though, and a question to you, and probably Dale in respect of his reasoned post, what do you think anyone should be doing now?

You seem to think the Council are just paying lip service to everything, and your dislike for them is quite clear. The Trust are trying to ask the questions, trying to come up with alternatives (for the ACV land), but has it now got to the stage where everyone just steps back and says "what will be will be"?
We just cross our fingers and hope that CDNL gets over the judicial review hurdle, gets the land, makes some money out of it, that money perhaps pays down the debts to the owner and chairman, the stand might or might not get built to some specification based on what they are able to do with it......between them the Council and KT seem to have almost all the bases covered.

From my perspective I pretty much said it in my original post. I think the most important thing from the Trusts perspective is to try and build a working and constructive relationship between the Board, the Council and the club. That’s probably going to mean the more moderate of those on the board take a lead moving forward.
I’m desperately not trying to be sycophantic or patronise but I would put you right at the top of that list. It might seem like crumbs, but you have to work out what’s realistically attainable from this point. I would say obtaining a level of influence post Thomas and Bower is perhaps the most important and trying to identify the kind of ownership you would like to see.
In my opinion you have a major aspect to consider, the club loses a million a year. The owners have indicated they would like to leave the club in good hands. If the owners make enough out of this deal they are going to want to off load the club as quickly as possible, because literally every additional month of ownership eats into any profit.
What are they going to do if there are no takers? At £100,000 per month, if they make enough on the land deal perhaps they might consider giving it away or take a nominal amount to the correct applicant? It might be slim, but there is a glimmer of opportunity right there and IMO it’s a far better option than the position the board are in now.
However, resurrecting those relationships is vital.

[Manwork04]

From my perspective I pretty much said it in my original post. I think the most important thing from the Trusts perspective is to try and build a working and constructive relationship between the Board, the Council and the club. That’s probably going to mean the more moderate of those on the board take a lead moving forward. I’m desperately not trying to be sycophantic or patronise but I would put you right at the top of that list. It might seem like crumbs, but you have to work out what’s realistically attainable from this point. I would say obtaining a level of influence post Thomas and Bower is perhaps the most important and trying to identify the kind of ownership you would like to see. In my opinion you have a major aspect to consider, the club loses a million a year. The owners have indicated they would like to leave the club in good hands. If the owners make enough out of this deal they are going to want to off load the club as quickly as possible, because literally every additional month of ownership eats into any profit. What are they going to do if there are no takers? At £100,000 per month, if they make enough on the land deal perhaps they might consider giving it away or take a nominal amount to the correct applicant? It might be slim, but there is a glimmer of opportunity right there and IMO it’s a far better option than the position the board are in now. However, resurrecting those relationships is vital.

We loose £1m per year, on what exactly, our turnover is circa £5.5m and our wage bill is circa £1.9m so where’s the other £4.5m going?

[Melbourne Cobbler]

We loose £1m per year, on what exactly, our turnover is circa £5.5m and our wage bill is circa £1.9m so where’s the other £4.5m going?

No idea, but the turnover is not 5.5 million. Check companies house, I know you hate cut and paste. Are you suggesting that despite every other club losing that amount on average we are bucking the trend despite the continual investment in the squad? You’re wrong, get over it. Let me ask you a question though. If it is correct and the owners stick around for another 3 years that’s another 3 million down the toilet. At this point would you be prepared to say take the land, forget the stand but give the club plus cash to the supporters and walk at the first opportunity? Absolute fantasy maybe, but alternatively take your stance, stick 2 fingers up at the owners and continue down the road to nowhere? Come on Manny, your not daft, in your opinion what’s the best outcome realistically attainable from this point?

[Terryfenwickatemyhamster]

No idea, but the turnover is not 5.5 million. Check companies house, I know you hate cut and paste. Are you suggesting that despite every other club losing that amount on average we are bucking the trend despite the continual investment in the squad? You’re wrong, get over it. Let me ask you a question though. If it is correct and the owners stick around for another 3 years that’s another 3 million down the toilet. At this point would you be prepared to say take the land, forget the stand but give the club plus cash to the supporters and walk at the first opportunity? Absolute fantasy maybe, but alternatively take your stance, stick 2 fingers up at the owners and continue down the road to nowhere? Come on Manny, your not daft, in your opinion what’s the best outcome realistically attainable from this point?

You can’t use logic to fight a group of people who have no idea how to use it themselves.

It’s like the stadium issues. You could offer them a thousand ways to approach it. But their approach and thoughts on it demonstrates the nature of these individuals. And unfortunately, “birds of a feather flock together”. If don’t join them you’re against them. That’s their level 

[Manwork04]

No idea, but the turnover is not 5.5 million. Check companies house, I know you hate cut and paste. Are you suggesting that despite every other club losing that amount on average we are bucking the trend despite the continual investment in the squad? You’re wrong, get over it. Let me ask you a question though. If it is correct and the owners stick around for another 3 years that’s another 3 million down the toilet. At this point would you be prepared to say take the land, forget the stand but give the club plus cash to the supporters and walk at the first opportunity? Absolute fantasy maybe, but alternatively take your stance, stick 2 fingers up at the owners and continue down the road to nowhere? Come on Manny, your not daft, in your opinion what’s the best outcome realistically attainable from this point?

Firstly, there is no way Bower will stick around for another 3 years, they are desperate to get this deal over the line.
The best outcome would be for the deal to go through, the club debt free and the money for finishing the stand be left in an infrastructure fund.
Then the council, fans, sport England, the lottery whoever can add to it to build a stand fit for purpose, like the one Cardoza was planning on building.
The reality will be far from that, I personally don’t see the stand getting finished.
While I’m at it the response from the council is quite frankly unbelievable, he doesn’t want personal guarantees in case they die or go bankrupt!!!

[Peter Frost]

No idea, but the turnover is not 5.5 million. Check companies house, I know you hate cut and paste. Are you suggesting that despite every other club losing that amount on average we are bucking the trend despite the continual investment in the squad? You’re wrong, get over it. Let me ask you a question though. If it is correct and the owners stick around for another 3 years that’s another 3 million down the toilet. At this point would you be prepared to say take the land, forget the stand but give the club plus cash to the supporters and walk at the first opportunity? Absolute fantasy maybe, but alternatively take your stance, stick 2 fingers up at the owners and continue down the road to nowhere? Come on Manny, your not daft, in your opinion what’s the best outcome realistically attainable from this point?

Anyone with a bit of business savvy knows you can run a company at a loss whilst salting out a certain amount of money - directors salaries etc - however if you do this consistently and for a large amount then the revenue will be all over you - frankly with a turnover of £5 million the revenue would not tolerate a £1 million loss year on year without proper legitimate returns - of course it suits an anti owner rhetoric that in addition to accruing director loans they are consistently taking money out the club - I don’t know that and nor do you but for me no longer the point as we have to look forward - let’s be honest KT/DB have held all the cards since they secured the leases and a mixture of petulance, aggression and in some cases rational informed dialogue from some quarters has divided fans and frankly caused them no real inconvenience. People now seem to be playing out a best/worse scenario when they are gone with again not actually knowing if any of these will pan out. Second in the card holding league table are the council who in some form will be there long after current owners are gone therefore whatever their faults (and I believe there are many) positive talk of improving the relationship between them and a United fan base is far more important than continuing a finger pointing exercise - but like Brexit for me, an incredible s***e decision but I lost!

[everbrite]

To be devils advocate, the huge turnout at Wembley was in the 90s. A fair proportion of those will be deceased. Last time we went to Wembley  it was 22-24k (can't remember the exact number)
I won't to the 15/16Championship parade in the Market Square, it wasn't that busy.
I have to say we are not a week supported side considering the population of Northampton.

It is noticeable that at away games this season there is a lot of new young supporters; perhaps they are the off spring of the deceased  Regarding the championship celebrations the turnout was impressive, not just the Market Square. Since 1991 the Towns population has grown since then! If we can maintain the winning streak gates will increase? Winning team and all that
Always prefer to remain optimistic 

[Carton Lid]

let’s be honest KT/DB have held all the cards since they secured the leases and a mixture of petulance, aggression and in some cases rational informed dialogue from some quarters has divided fans and frankly caused them no real inconvenience. !

If you look deeply into this you will see who has caused the divided fan base and who has the most to gain from it.

[Manwork04]

If you look deeply into this you will see who has caused the divided fan base and who has the most to gain from it.

Exactly, he’s done it before, just ask Oxford fans.

[BedsCobb]

From my perspective I pretty much said it in my original post. I think the most important thing from the Trusts perspective is to try and build a working and constructive relationship between the Board, the Council and the club. That’s probably going to mean the more moderate of those on the board take a lead moving forward.
I’m desperately not trying to be sycophantic or patronise but I would put you right at the top of that list. It might seem like crumbs, but you have to work out what’s realistically attainable from this point. I would say obtaining a level of influence post Thomas and Bower is perhaps the most important and trying to identify the kind of ownership you would like to see.
In my opinion you have a major aspect to consider, the club loses a million a year. The owners have indicated they would like to leave the club in good hands. If the owners make enough out of this deal they are going to want to off load the club as quickly as possible, because literally every additional month of ownership eats into any profit.
What are they going to do if there are no takers? At £100,000 per month, if they make enough on the land deal perhaps they might consider giving it away or take a nominal amount to the correct applicant? It might be slim, but there is a glimmer of opportunity right there and IMO it’s a far better option than the position the board are in now.
However, resurrecting those relationships is vital.

The club/cdnl continue failling to raise and collect all the available revenues at its disposal,  it doesn't lose a million a season it leaves it rotting on the vine.

It does really well in land acquiring.

[tcobb]

Out of interest Beds how much land have they acquired so far ?

[Terryfenwickatemyhamster]

If you look deeply into this you will see who has caused the divided fan base and who has the most to gain from it.

It’s been a total cakewalk for them, because of the combative approach of those that oppose their ideas. Whether you like KT or nor, he has trumped and outmanoeuvred all in front of him.

You can accuse them of dividing the support. But that is not the view of the vast majority of the fan base. Outside of those that I see on social media moaning about it, I genuinely struggle to find anyone that doesn’t like  KT & DB. Especially those who work for them..

Personally I have always found him and all of the staff at the club to be helpful, positive,  emotionally and professionally invested in the club. That has been my experience.

[Substitute]

It’s been a total cakewalk for them, because of the combative approach of those that oppose their ideas. Whether you like KT or nor, he has trumped and outmanoeuvred all in front of him.

You can accuse them of dividing the support. But that is not the view of the vast majority of the fan base. Outside of those that I see on social media moaning about it, I genuinely struggle to find anyone that doesn’t like  KT & DB. Especially those who work for them..

Personally I have always found him and all of the staff at the club to be helpful, positive,  emotionally and professionally invested in the club. That has been my experience.

My old man can't stand kelvin and he don't do social media stuff.

[Risdene]

If you look deeply into this you will see who has caused the divided fan base and who has the most to gain from it.

Totally disagree, because the fan base has not been divided by KT, the Trust has failed to unify supporters due to their actions!

[tcobb]

Don't think the divide is that great, people don't support the Trust because of their actions and behaviour,  but it doesn't mean they fully support the owners either.

[Peter Frost]

Don't think the divide is that great, people don't support the Trust because of their actions and behaviour,  but it doesn't mean they fully support the owners either.

Exactly that - and if the constant finger pointing which seems now to be more of an ego thing about being right than the actual issue, I think the divide could be significantly reduced

[Zen Master]

A lot of people just want to turn up, have a beer or 3, watch a game and see friends without all this stuff getting in the way.

[Deepcut Cobbler]

Don't think the divide is that great, people don't support the Trust because of their actions and behaviour,  but it doesn't mean they fully support the owners either.

That is the issue, if you are considered not to 'support' The Trust, it is automatically assumed (by some) that you support the Chairman.
It isn't as simple as that.

In my opinion, The Trust Board needed to promote an early 'hearts and minds' campaign in order to convince the majority of the fan base to be behind them in the pursuit of their (and our) ultimate aims.  Many of the fanbase are not frequent contributors or users of either this board, FB, Twitter or even the Internet.

Despite numerous attempts to provide genuine and sincere advice and guidance, they didn't,
Primarily because of the words and actions of a vociferous few, they are now at a stage where they look round and can count their 'support', in this particular campaign, on the fingers of only a few hands.

It's a shame because I know and speak to quite a number of supporters who agreed with their intentions (myself included).
From my perspective, the methods deployed to achieve them were at fault. They could and should have done better.

Winning the battles win the war. Unfortunately, in my opinion, no battles were won and all that The Trust achieved is to provide additional bumps in the road and white noise to delay what has already been beyond a timeline that any of us ever expected back in the days of David Cardoza, when the East Stand redevelopment was first proposed.
The current Chairman isn't blameless for the delay either, but with a properly coordinated Trust campaign, he wouldn't be in as comfortable position as he is now, sat holding all of the key cards.

Reteats to bunker with tin hat...

[BackOfTheNet]

That is the issue, if you are considered not to 'support' The Trust, it is automatically assumed (by some) that you support the Chairman.
It isn't as simple as that.

In my opinion, The Trust Board needed to promote an early 'hearts and minds' campaign in order to convince the majority of the fan base to be behind them in the pursuit of their (and our) ultimate aims.  Many of the fanbase are not frequent contributors or users of either this board, FB, Twitter or even the Internet.

Despite numerous attempts to provide genuine and sincere advice and guidance, they didn't,
Primarily because of the words and actions of a vociferous few, they are now at a stage where they look round and can count their 'support', in this particular campaign, on the fingers of only a few hands.

It's a shame because I know and speak to quite a number of supporters who agreed with their intentions (myself included).
From my perspective, the methods deployed to achieve them were at fault. They could and should have done better.

Winning the battles win the war. Unfortunately, in my opinion, no battles were won and all that The Trust achieved is to provide additional bumps in the road and white noise to delay what has already been beyond a timeline that any of us ever expected back in the days of David Cardoza, when the East Stand redevelopment was first proposed.
The current Chairman isn't blameless for the delay either, but with a properly coordinated Trust campaign, he wouldn't be in as comfortable position as he is now, sat holding all of the key cards.

Reteats to bunker with tin hat...

Edit: there were some clapping emojis here but the site doesn't seem to like them!

[Shoemender]

A lot of people just want to turn up, have a beer or 3, watch a game and see friends without all this stuff getting in the way.

A lot of people want to turn up, have a beer or 10, watch a game and see friends in a lovely stadium befitting a team that's been in the league for over 100 years, but actually has the smallest capacity of any established league team.