Redevelopment Closer Than Ever?

[everbrite]

All well established league teams??!! With probably not much more than 100 years between them. Don't know what you were on about in your last sentence.

Barrow and Southport were established league clubs for years. You make the same mistake as not defining 'established'. How on earth are you going to define Stockport, Fleetwood, Lincoln, Oxford, Wrexham, Morecombe even AFC Dons who by any argument are not strictly established. At the very least you could have defined 'established' by the number of seasons in the EFL.  Not forgetting Sc***horpe and Oldham! Or you have done is caused confusion by not defining 'established'.

[Manwork04]

This IMHO (mine not that of the Trust) is what is going to play out over the coming months

The council will refuse any and all offers from the Trust for the ACV land - even if we offer £2m for it -

KT will pay £2.05m + bonuses to the council and it's board

KT will sell the 17 acres to Buckingham Group for more warehousing

Outstanding debts to owners will be paid immediately

DB will sell the club for whatever he can get for it (perhaps even to KT and his Oxford mates)

The new owner will have a choice of finishing the east stand and keeping the 3.61 acres of running track or handing back to the Council in 5 years for £1 and not bothering with the East stand. (bear in mind it is on NTFC to finish the stand NOT CDNL)

Sorry I'm a bit thick but I don't see how this is a good deal for NTFC and it's supporters - NO stand, No Land, No assets. (and great, no debt to it's owners, just like in October 2015)

Would love to hear what other regular posters on here, think will happen.

Mate, please be careful what you say on a public forum, your leaving yourself wide open.

[Terryfenwickatemyhamster]

This IMHO (mine not that of the Trust) is what is going to play out over the coming months

The council will refuse any and all offers from the Trust for the ACV land - even if we offer £2m for it -

KT will pay £2.05m + bonuses to the council and it's board

KT will sell the 17 acres to Buckingham Group for more warehousing

Outstanding debts to owners will be paid immediately

DB will sell the club for whatever he can get for it (perhaps even to KT and his Oxford mates)

The new owner will have a choice of finishing the east stand and keeping the 3.61 acres of running track or handing back to the Council in 5 years for £1 and not bothering with the East stand. (bear in mind it is on NTFC to finish the stand NOT CDNL)

Sorry I'm a bit thick but I don't see how this is a good deal for NTFC and it's supporters - NO stand, No Land, No assets. (and great, no debt to it's owners, just like in October 2015)

Would love to hear what other regular posters on here, think will happen.

If they have any sense they will steer well clear of any specifics. Stated as facts or not..

[Shoemender]

Barrow and Southport were established league clubs for years. You make the same mistake as not defining 'established'. How on earth are you going to define Stockport, Fleetwood, Lincoln, Oxford, Wrexham, Morecombe even AFC Dons who by any argument are nor strictly established. At the very least you could have defined 'established' by the number of seasons in the EFL.  Not forgetting Sc***horpe and Oldham! Or you have done is caused confusion by not defining 'established'.

I would define an established league club as any club that has had an unbroken residency in the English football league since their  
admittance since the eighties minimum. Most of those league clubs you've mentioned apart from Fleetwood and Morecambe all have bigger capacities than us and 3 of them ain't even in the league anymore. FACT. Arguing for arguments sake.

[Shoemender]

4 of them.

[Deepcut Cobbler]

Thought that was a reasonably fair post. Can't really see the "problem".

His first post back, immediately blaming everyone else for the failure or inability of The Trust?
Putting out one line unsubstantiated accusations, claims  and comments about the running and financial aspects of the club?

Not the best way to get us and the support behind them is it?

[Shoemender]

Barrow and Southport were established league clubs for years. You make the same mistake as not defining 'established'. How on earth are you going to define Stockport, Fleetwood, Lincoln, Oxford, Wrexham, Morecombe even AFC Dons who by any argument are not strictly established. At the very least you could have defined 'established' by the number of seasons in the EFL.  Not forgetting Sc***horpe and Oldham! Or you have done is caused confusion by not defining 'established'.

Oh yeah. So we're Gateshead, Workington, Glossop North End, Darwin and several others. None of them are in the league anymore.

[random1]

Haven’t we had a fantastic start to the season? The Brady bunch are onwards and upwards at the moment. It was fantastic at Crewe, lovely weather and a last minute goal to boot. In addition to that, the open training sessions appears to be a resounding success as well. I could go on. But you and your pals couldn’t really give a shyte…

Hammy, if you want to talk about the football in general then why not start another thread, this is the redevelopment thread, so I'm talking about that.

Rather than using it to have ANOTHER at a Trust poster.

And just to bite, yes a very good start (thanks mainly to Sammy), problem is that we are still in L2 when I last looked. 

[everbrite]

I would define an established league club as any club that has had an unbroken residency in the English football league since their  
admittance since the eighties minimum. Most of those league clubs you've mentioned apart from Fleetwood and Morecambe all have bigger capacities than us and 3 of them ain't even in the league anymore. FACT. Arguing for arguments sake.

Arguing for arguments sake  - Am not sure if you know the difference between an argument (as in a pub for example) or a discussion in a debate.  All I have done is requested 'define established' - you have now done this.....at last! Will now revisit your original message and take it from there.

[everbrite]

Hammy, if you want to talk about the football in general then why not start another thread, this is the redevelopment thread, so I'm talking about that.

Rather than using it to have ANOTHER at a Trust poster.

And just to bite, yes a very good start (thanks mainly to Sammy), problem is that we are still in L2 when I last looked. 

  Can see you giving up Hamster - chin up and keep at it

[Shoemender]

His first post back, immediately blaming everyone else for the failure or inability of The Trust?
Putting out one line unsubstantiated accusations, claims  and comments about the running and financial aspects of the club?

Not the best way to get us and the support behind them is it?

No grievances with you but the majority of the post was pretty amicable and the financial aspects and running of the club are all open to interpretation and opinion. Whose to say KT/DB are above board or beneath contempt. Hopefully we'll find out eventually.

[Tabasco Kid]

Hi everyone, hope you are well, enjoying summer and the start of the new season.

I am the first to admit that the Trust should spoken more to fans on a fan to fan basis rather than statements and arguments.

The Trust board have spoken with many groups / Trusts and individuals over the recents years and a similar story is often told.

Most Trusts (as we believe we are) look closer at the medium term and the actions of owners and how they run our football clubs.

As said above most fans, are only interested in on the pitch matters, totally ignoring the fact that infrastructure and off-the-pitch affects it far more than they care to believe.

Therefore, any Trust asking questions (and not getting answers) from owners raises their level of concern, whilst coming under attack from their own fans. This has happened at many clubs.

You only have to look here under DC and the abuse those who were saying "we want answers" received

I in the past have made passionate, personal statements, I have asked for fans to explain why we are better off now than before KT arrived, rarely do I get a comment or reply.

I and the Trust have asked for help, for more to join, more to influence etc, nothing comes back except excuses of why they can't get involved, whilst sniping messages and discussions are posted about the constitution of the Trust, it board, who is co-opted etc etc

The Trust are all supporters, they want more for it's supporters, they want owners who want to be honest, with a little ambition and most of all, belief in our town and it's supporters

We don't have that with these owners, KT has stated it is not financially viable to develop the club, whilst somehow putting us in £6m in debt with no increase in assets.

This is your football club, it is about to be shafted by it's owners and even more unbelievably by it's local council - well at least its leaders, Nunn and Patel and one other at least

And all many of you can focus on is how aggressive the Trust has become. The same Trust who last time got vilified for being passive and allow DC a free pass.

Be they train drivers or estate agents, they just cant keep away. You just know that they will come crawling back. Because they have been reading this forum all along. Quite pathetic on their part.

[Melbourne Cobbler]

Fúcking here we go again. I think it’s about time people stopped criticising the Trust and call out the individuals instead. The manner in which some have conducted themselves on social media is a disgrace. The reason this is relevant is because they represent me and are my voice supposedly. Therefore if I don’t like the rhetoric, conduct or approach then I’m entitled. Much like some of the individuals I could always take their advice and attack the owners instead, but how’s that working out?
However, some seem hèll bent on suppressing opinion and slaughtering their own membership if they dare to contradict or question anything. I represent no one so I answer to no one. These individuals do. Its the same old rhetoric returning the same old results. If that’s the limit of your ability then go and do something else because your not fit to hold the position. You are achieving nothing and whilst the continual baiting may massage egos, you have not gained a single concession. Tell me I’m wrong, what has been achieved to date, what is your objective, and is continuing with the same strategy the plan? What the Board needs is a measured calm, considered, pragmatic approach. Not a never ending stubborn childish rant that involves throwing a stuffed toy at the owners. Apparently the plan now is to try and bounce the stuffed toy off Kelvins head onto Jonathan Nunns. What a load of self serving bóllocks.

[random1]

Mate, please be careful what you say on a public forum, your leaving yourself wide open.

Thanks for the advice, but questions have to be asked when our council and certain councillors have acted how they have

They say the new CDNL bid matches Cildara when it clears does not, they then ignore a higher bid of 50% increase.

They remove the no stand no land on the basis of it matching another bid, which it doesn't and then dismiss the Trust (and other fans) request of a personal guarantee - reason someone might die so it can't be "collected upon"

They then tell the Trust that they would have to pay far in excess of the land value for the ACV land as CDNL might pull out and they left with the remaining acres they can't sell - even though Cildara have offered £1m more with no ties or liability to the council

They don't want the Trust to bid for all of the land

They have changed, in partnership with KT, the deal at least 3 times (all in CDNL /KT / DB's favour) and ignored increased offers from an experienced company and also ignored the local supporter group that has twice saved the club.

The question is why?  it is totally irrational. ask yourself why, who is it that benefits from this deal

Ask yourself why are the council so desperate to sell 21 acres of land?  why were they happy to sell it at less than £1m?  there is no ongoing costs or savings to make. That land has sat as is for around 30 years, so why the rush to sell to speculators from Dubai and Florida?

Council has hundreds of millions of pounds going through it's hands, yet seem intent to offer nothing to the people of Northampton but more ffff warehouses.

[Jonesy9]

As the council have already stated, they’re well within their right to value offers beyond just the initial upfront offer. The council have said that they put extra value on the club completing the stand, as it should strengthen the town and our counties offering.

They’ve obviously put a value on that which exceeds the Cilldara bid.

[random1]

Fúcking here we go again. I think it’s about time people stopped criticising the Trust and call out the individuals instead. The manner in which some have conducted themselves on social media is a disgrace. The reason this is relevant is because they represent me and are my voice supposedly. Therefore if I don’t like the rhetoric, conduct or approach then I’m entitled. Much like some of the individuals I could always take their advice and attack the owners instead, but how’s that working out?
However, some seem hèll bent on suppressing opinion and slaughtering their own membership if they dare to contradict or question anything. I represent no one so I answer to no one. These individuals do. Its the same old rhetoric returning the same old results. If that’s the limit of your ability then go and do something else because your not fit to hold the position. You are achieving nothing and whilst the continual baiting may massage egos, you have not gained a single concession. Tell me I’m wrong, what has been achieved to date, what is your objective, and is continuing with the same strategy the plan? What the Board needs is a measured calm, considered, pragmatic approach. Not a never ending stubborn childish rant that involves throwing a stuffed toy at the owners. Apparently the plan now is to try and bounce the stuffed toy off Kelvins head onto Jonathan Nunns. What a load of self serving bóllocks.

As if the Trust have ever received any calm, considered or pragmatic approach from many on here. The last few posts sum it up

Far easier to blame me and the Trust, no matter what we say or how we say it.

It is nothing to do with egos.

No we have not achieved much with our approach I grant you, because as I said earlier most fans want to just watch the football and don't care. Those on this thread seem intent of destroying the Trust and blame it totally on myself and others.

How many meeting have you had with KT? how many times have you made suggestions to him? (if so how many of those has been taken up?)

I expect the answer to you and the others who say we should be nice is that don't you think we have tried?

We have had lots of meetings with KT, and even DB on a couple of occassions. KT is not interested in anything other than what he wants, when and how he wants it.

Speak with people who have have dealings with KT, speak with the Chinese, with the at least 4 parties who have walked away following discussions to buy the club with him,

Speak with David Jackson

Speak with Ian Atkins

Speak with those involved with the New Hotelend

Speak with Roger - Trust Chairman for many years

Speak with Cildara - when they spent months trying to buy the club

Ask me - I have had a few face to face meetings.

I desperately want this club to achieve more, I am trying to protect the club in it's long term interests.

Why don't you put your money where your mouth is and tell me how you think this will play out.

I am waiting

[random1]

His first post back, immediately blaming everyone else for the failure or inability of The Trust?
Putting out one line unsubstantiated accusations, claims  and comments about the running and financial aspects of the club?

Not the best way to get us and the support behind them is it?

so the club is not £6m (approx) in debt and we have increased our assets ? 

So come on explain it rather than just make flippant accusations, explain how we are better of than when he paid £1 for our football club, versus £6m (approx) of debt

[random1]

Why don’t the trust put that 2m offer from the land, and use it as a grounding for building the funds to offer to buy out the club.
The trust clearly believe that they know how the club should be run, and that the current owners are doing a terrible job. So surely we would benefit from all of the business experts on the board of the trust taking ownership and control over the club?

I’d say that if the trust have the level of support amongst the members that is being alluded to, surely a whip round will drum up enough cash to put a tempting offer on the table?

Well Exeter aint doing a bad job, nor Newport or Wimbledon.

It also helped Wycombe get into a far far better position

One problem, it is very very difficult to 1: get a sensible price from KT and 2: even harder to get him to stick to it -

[random1]

No grievances with you but the majority of the post was pretty amicable and the financial aspects and running of the club are all open to interpretation and opinion. Whose to say KT/DB are above board or beneath contempt. Hopefully we'll find out eventually.

Thanks Shoemender, the fact that he posted that, without referring to anything shows just what the Trust and I are up against.

It doesn't matter what we say or how we say it, certain posters will just take the smallest part and turn into a "look how nasty the trust are"

[BedsCobb]

Out of interest Beds how much land have they acquired so far ?

The full 23 acres. All the North car park, the land fill area and now wnc have virtually gifted them the entire Sixfields running track and not even forcing them to finish the stsnd!
But you know this as it was what you probably hoped would happen by backing cdnl over Ntfc supporters trust?

I really hope you or any others staunchly loyal to cdnl are not now having regrets?
It's a bit late now