Redevelopment Closer Than Ever?

[BedsCobb]

Been off for a while and we are up to £20m now are we. Give it a few more months and we'll be competing against Newcastle in the summer transfer window.

You've just reminded me of the early thomas usage of exaggeration and under playing the urgent needs of our club to blow smoke up all our ar5es.
It succeeded with many but not all.
As You've asked, my hopes are in a few months is work planned on a finished East stand and simultaneous redevelopment of the south stand extension..
Thomas can't deliver you say, no probs, just show him the door and get others in who can make the £20m worth of land benefit our club the way it should.

Our club must never be mugged off again..
If its the want of Northampton and its clubs supporters,  it happens rapidly.
Tell me Gar....Stan, what do YOU want to see happening?

[guest3571]

Did you seriously accuse me of exaggerating. Wow 

Well Tro... Beds. I would like the JD to be finalised and the initial decision ratified and the land sold to the club.

I would then like the owners to complete the due diligence on the land to finalise what is best for the development land (i.e sell it, build and sell warehouses, build and lease warehouses). Although admit I would have expected this to be completed already. That will generate an amount no where near £20m but one I do not know. I would then expect a contractor to be appointed to start on the development land and the EAST stand at the same time.

The owners will also repay themselves, fund the east stand and the rest to go into the clubs coffers. They will then either sell the club to someone who can take us forward and develop the south as you suggest or other areas to improve.
Or they can look at other areas of the club themselves and develop them withouth lease issues etc hanging over them.

I would also like to see the Trust get back to a position where they can hold the club to account in a proper way. Things sound promising in that regard.

(NTFC and/or club are not CDNL / Thomas, he hasnt done anything yet, you are a club plant, I have some sort of inappropriate relationship with Thomas, something to do with Florida or Dubai, I dont live in Tuscon so not sure what you can do there, we'll be hemmed in, the land is worth £30m i assume by now, it will only cost £200 and a packet of hobnobs not the amount people are saying) I think I have written all your possible replies so you can save time and have some lunch.

[BedsCobb]

Did you seriously accuse me of exaggerating. Wow 

Well Tro... Beds. I would like the JD to be finalised and the initial decision ratified and the land sold to the club.

I would then like the owners to complete the due diligence on the land to finalise what is best for the development land (i.e sell it, build and sell warehouses, build and lease warehouses). Although admit I would have expected this to be completed already. That will generate an amount no where near £20m but one I do not know. I would then expect a contractor to be appointed to start on the development land and the EAST stand at the same time.

The owners will also repay themselves, fund the east stand and the rest to go into the clubs coffers. They will then either sell the club to someone who can take us forward and develop the south as you suggest or other areas to improve.
Or they can look at other areas of the club themselves and develop them withouth lease issues etc hanging over them.

I would also like to see the Trust get back to a position where they can hold the club to account in a proper way. Things sound promising in that regard.

(NTFC and/or club are not CDNL / Thomas, he hasnt done anything yet, you are a club plant, I have some sort of inappropriate relationship with Thomas, something to do with Florida or Dubai, I dont live in Tuscon so not sure what you can do there, we'll be hemmed in, the land is worth £30m i assume by now, it will only cost £200 and a packet of hobnobs not the amount people are saying) I think I have written all your possible replies so you can save time and have some lunch.

Thanks for the reply, it is truly eye opening and transparent, very much as i would expect from the owners official line, containing plenty of grey areas, plenty of promises, lots of false hope, masses of wriggle room and get out clauses,  nothing at all guaranteed, everything loaded in the owners favour and nothing for the town and Football club of Northampton.
You also wish for a weakened trust by saying it should be one that holds the club to account IN A PROPER WAY..Which is CDNL speak for keeping their noses out until the already buttered up and weak council grants the windfall allowing them to trouser as much as they can get away with and get gone..
Also to stop any misunderstanding resulting in future disappointment, they wont as you say look to do any other redevelopment but will definitely sell the club once it hasnt got any future enabling land left.
And yes the only redevelopment to increase the capacity we'll see is when new owners take over from the time wasters cdnl. We just need to hope we can fight to avoid a doomsday scenario where the new owners are left with nothing to work with at a tiny hemmed in ground on the edge of a mass of warehousing..
which sadly is probably the most likely outcome with our daft weak council.

[guest3571]

I really dont know why I keep bothering.
I have no involvement with the club, the owners, sponsors, KT's dog walker etc. Just a simple punter.

I wish for a STRENGTHENED Trust, one that can actually have dialogue with the owners and get the FANS positions across. When neither party are talking to each other, and I hold both sides responsible for that, what purpose do they provide?

If the owners leave and we can find someone to do everything (ish) you talk about then great. I want the club to move forward and progress, if it isnt KT then I dont care. But the person / people you fantasise about are few and far between, I'm sure there must be some but I cant think of anyone since Jack Walker or Max Griggs, anywhere!

Edit: Out of interest I did a quick search and looks like Brentford, Brighton and Stoke are all owned by local fans and business men so happy to correct myself (may well be others but the ever reliable Wiki still had Cardozas as owners of NTFC). Although Stokes owner is a Labour party donor so he may not be welcomed by some 

[Tabasco Kid]

_Out of interest I did a quick search and looks like Brentford, Brighton and Stoke are all owned by local fans and business men so happy to correct myself (may well be others but the ever reliable Wiki still had Cardozas as owners of NTFC). Although Stokes owner is a Labour party donor so he may not be welcomed by some.

I can think of a few comrades who would welcome him. One might take a flight and a helicopter from his current holiday.

[Zen Master]

Isn’t Stoke owner the Bet 365 people that are mega rich?

[guest3571]

Isn’t Stoke owner the Bet 365 people that are mega rich?

Yes

[Terryfenwickatemyhamster]

I really dont know why I keep bothering.
I have no involvement with the club, the owners, sponsors, KT's dog walker etc. Just a simple punter.

I wish for a STRENGTHENED Trust, one that can actually have dialogue with the owners and get the FANS positions across. When neither party are talking to each other, and I hold both sides responsible for that, what purpose do they provide?

If the owners leave and we can find someone to do everything (ish) you talk about then great. I want the club to move forward and progress, if it isnt KT then I dont care. But the person / people you fantasise about are few and far between, I'm sure there must be some but I cant think of anyone since Jack Walker or Max Griggs, anywhere!

Edit: Out of interest I did a quick search and looks like Brentford, Brighton and Stoke are all owned by local fans and business men so happy to correct myself (may well be others but the ever reliable Wiki still had Cardozas as owners of NTFC). Although Stokes owner is a Labour party donor so he may not be welcomed by some 

A man after my own heart. Realising the need for constructive dialogue and a salient plan.

[BedsCobb]

I really dont know why I keep bothering.
I have no involvement with the club, the owners, sponsors, KT's dog walker etc. Just a simple punter.

I wish for a STRENGTHENED Trust, one that can actually have dialogue with the owners and get the FANS positions across. When neither party are talking to each other, and I hold both sides responsible for that, what purpose do they provide?

If the owners leave and we can find someone to do everything (ish) you talk about then great. I want the club to move forward and progress, if it isnt KT then I dont care. But the person / people you fantasise about are few and far between, I'm sure there must be some but I cant think of anyone since Jack Walker or Max Griggs, anywhere!

Edit: Out of interest I did a quick search and looks like Brentford, Brighton and Stoke are all owned by local fans and business men so happy to correct myself (may well be others but the ever reliable Wiki still had Cardozas as owners of NTFC). Although Stokes owner is a Labour party donor so he may not be welcomed by some 

I know  exactly why you bother because I've exposed the ideal outcome that cdnl are hoping for. Also by me pointing out what befalls NTFC and its future inability to grow its product and support base, further destroying our chances to ever escape division four should cdnl's current greedy tactics come to fruition.
Which strangely would in the aftermath of a CDNL/THOMAS/WNC land victory over the Cobblers would probably require us to seek vast investment in the absence of the wasted land opportunities lost to Northampton and its football club.
At no time have I asked for  sugar daddy owners as its best to build up a club gradually by involving the town and support base allowing all to feel part of  and get involved with the clubs growth..
So if we fight for NTFCs share, demand those councillors that are getting dangerously close to cdnl, re evaluate what they wrongly think NTFC need  to move it forward which is a lot more than 10 boxes in a little rusting stand from the £20m worth of land up for grabs at Sixfields, NTFC with its fair share, would have a bright future.
As for dialogue with those that for 8 years allowed our club to stagnate,  playing Down the Cobblers urgent need for infrastructure growth while  using every trick in the book using NTFC to aquire land riches for themselves  will be very hard to enter into any sort of dialogue?
I agree we need a strong trust, one that can rally the town to demand a fair share of redevelopment from the Sixfields land, one that  force the council to rethink and evaluate what it is ntfc need.
A strong trust that won't  go all knee jerk into accepting 10 poxy boxes in a tiny rusting stand but insusts on a minimum amount redevelopment that sees the capacity raised to 11000 and a finished East stand.
But what in CDNL dig in and deny the cobblers any growth from the land? Simple answer, remove the opportunity from them also in a stalemate allowing A more deserving  A. N Other the chance to build up the Cobblers fortunes.
I can see after 8 years of deliberate stagnation, cdnl are hoping for desperation taking hold allowing them to get away with giving ntfc the very minimum amount,  but as you say  with a strong trust we can desist bending over the cdnl barrel.

[Melbourne Cobbler]

I really dont know why I keep bothering.
I have no involvement with the club, the owners, sponsors, KT's dog walker etc. Just a simple punter.

I wish for a STRENGTHENED Trust, one that can actually have dialogue with the owners and get the FANS positions across. When neither party are talking to each other, and I hold both sides responsible for that, what purpose do they provide?

If the owners leave and we can find someone to do everything (ish) you talk about then great. I want the club to move forward and progress, if it isnt KT then I dont care. But the person / people you fantasise about are few and far between, I'm sure there must be some but I cant think of anyone since Jack Walker or Max Griggs, anywhere!

Edit: Out of interest I did a quick search and looks like Brentford, Brighton and Stoke are all owned by local fans and business men so happy to correct myself (may well be others but the ever reliable Wiki still had Cardozas as owners of NTFC). Although Stokes owner is a Labour party donor so he may not be welcomed by some 

Trouble is Stan it’s not like Jack Walker or Max Griggs were the answer either. You can add Dave Whelan and George Reynolds to that list, a few seasons in the sun followed by Armageddon. Bolton, Derby, Bradford, Sunderland different clubs same story. The whole system is broken and until it’s changed it’s a lottery as to whether there are any solutions that provide long term security and an opportunity for success. No one is fixing the real issues, just looking at prolonging it with more dead end proposals and exposure to risk. Well the biggest risk to the club right now is someone new walking through the door and exposing the club to unserviceable debt egged on by some of the crackpot lunatics on here and those like them. It just depends what you want, a sustainable club or a fantasy club that may implode but has indulged the dreams of those only interested in self gratification. What’s the point in treading water, well those that are drowning would probably take it all day long.

[Melbourne Cobbler]

I know  exactly why you bother because I've exposed the ideal outcome that cdnl are hoping for. Also by me pointing out what befalls NTFC and its future inability to grow its product and support base, further destroying our chances to ever escape division four should cdnl's current greedy tactics come to fruition.
Which strangely would in the aftermath of a CDNL/THOMAS/WNC land victory over the Cobblers would probably require us to seek vast investment in the absence of the wasted land opportunities lost to Northampton and its football club.
At no time have I asked for  sugar daddy owners as its best to build up a club gradually by involving the town and support base allowing all to feel part of  and get involved with the clubs growth..
So if we fight for NTFCs share, demand those councillors that are getting dangerously close to cdnl, re evaluate what they wrongly think NTFC need  to move it forward which is a lot more than 10 boxes in a little rusting stand from the £20m worth of land up for grabs at Sixfields, NTFC with its fair share, would have a bright future.
As for dialogue with those that for 8 years allowed our club to stagnate,  playing Down the Cobblers urgent need for infrastructure growth while  using every trick in the book using NTFC to aquire land riches for themselves  will be very hard to enter into any sort of dialogue?
I agree we need a strong trust, one that can rally the town to demand a fair share of redevelopment from the Sixfields land, one that  force the council to rethink and evaluate what it is ntfc need.
A strong trust that won't  go all knee jerk into accepting 10 poxy boxes in a tiny rusting stand but insusts on a minimum amount redevelopment that sees the capacity raised to 11000 and a finished East stand.
But what in CDNL dig in and deny the cobblers any growth from the land? Simple answer, remove the opportunity from them also in a stalemate allowing A more deserving  A. N Other the chance to build up the Cobblers fortunes.
I can see after 8 years of deliberate stagnation, cdnl are hoping for desperation taking hold allowing them to get away with giving ntfc the very minimum amount,  but as you say  with a strong trust we can desist bending over the cdnl barrel.

https://youtube.com/shorts/fz8rMes_CTE?feature=share the independent review of the product offering is pretty much a 5 star score. Sorry to introduce more annoying facts to get in the way of your appraisals.

[guest3571]

Beds
Genuine question, what do you think is NTFC (and I mean the club, fans, town, etc) entitlement to the development land. If possible I would like to talk in acreage as that is a know number and the value of the land varies depending on opinions. Could also suggest a % as that could apply to acreage or value. And if possible how you have arrived at that number based on the clubs history.
Much obliged.

[BedsCobb]

Beds
Genuine question, what do you think is NTFC (and I mean the club, fans, town, etc) entitlement to the development land. If possible I would like to talk in acreage as that is a know number and the value of the land varies depending on opinions. Could also suggest a % as that could apply to acreage or value. And if possible how you have arrived at that number based on the clubs history.
Much obliged.

Firstly, your last question is what I would expect from the likes of cardoza and Thomas..Basically saying, 'your Football club has always been 5hit so must remain so forever' which both you and I know is nonsense as the 2 forementioned have been instrumental in our clubs failure of the past 2 decades,  a time when football has gone through a golden period,  that has been denied ntfc by these greedy speculators.

Secondly turn the question on its head 'how many blades of grass would Thomas be entitled to if it were not for his association with our club?
Not a single one is the answer.
How much should the Football club of Northampton be due from the sale of the running track part of its own stadium and the wider surrounding land? A damned sight more than greedy cdnl are due..
All we have to do is dig in and as a town united,  collectively demanding an 11000 capacity Sixfields with a finished East stand, and guess what happens, Yes that's right, we get what we want.

I think the tide is turning in the favour of ntfc..
Our club will not be mugged off by Thomas/cdnl.

[Ragdoll Cobbler]

JR confirmed for next month. No exact date yet though...

https://twitter.com/nnjournalism/status/1630579950762721281?s=61&t=GaJSv6tUVZsnd0ZAAAeKVw

From NN Journal

New: We're hearing a High Court date been set for next month for the judicial review into how West Northants Council decided to sell some land to Nton Town Football Club. The judicial review has been taken forward by a rival developer. (Background here) https://t.co/mSYC6PEcLa

[guest3571]

Firstly, your last question is what I would expect from the likes of cardoza and Thomas..Basically saying, 'your Football club has always been 5hit so must remain so forever' which both you and I know is nonsense as the 2 forementioned have been instrumental in our clubs failure of the past 2 decades,  a time when football has gone through a golden period,  that has been denied ntfc by these greedy speculators.

Secondly turn the question on its head 'how many blades of grass would Thomas be entitled to if it were not for his association with our club?
Not a single one is the answer.
How much should the Football club of Northampton be due from the sale of the running track part of its own stadium and the wider surrounding land? A damned sight more than greedy cdnl are due..
All we have to do is dig in and as a town united,  collectively demanding an 11000 capacity Sixfields with a finished East stand, and guess what happens, Yes that's right, we get what we want.

I think the tide is turning in the favour of ntfc..
Our club will not be mugged off by Thomas/cdnl.

If it wasnt KT's association with the club in all probability he would have no 'entitlement'

Although he, or Cilldara, or anyone else could have purchased it and zero would have gone to the club.

The Trust could have purchased it at the time KT did but they didn't (appreciate they didnt have the finances).
You could have purchased it at the same time KT did and donated it all to the Trust or club when you approved of the owner.
Anyone with the finances who love the club, even a consortium of local business men who for a time looked at buying the club could have bought the land and donated it as above.
None of them did.
So you can fantasise as much as you want, but the only reason that we can even have this debate is because KT acquired the land.
Now even I appreciate this sounds like a KT love in but as far as I am aware, thems the FACTS

[Tabasco Kid]

Fashanu was very keen to get his hands on that land. So was that Giovanni dodgy lawyer bloke. And the last two chairmen. And now Cilldara are really going for it. What is it about that land, as there seems to be more than a quick buck involved.
Fracking, thats my guess, or an unlimited supply of methane from the Jimmies End detritus.

[Peter Frost]

Apparently the JR now has a date for next month - no idea how long the process takes but at least things are moving. I find it interesting CNDL have now posted such details on the warehouse plans as if the whole thing is a fait de accompli - personally and irrespective of the less than inspiring plans I'd like to see Cildara appeal to be 100% unsuccessful

[Peter Frost]

If it wasnt KT's association with the club in all probability he would have no 'entitlement'

It's a good point and one I have argued a number of times - of course one of the counters is he was only able to negotiate that entitlement by first acquiring the football club which is certainly true but goes back to who really also put in an alternative tangible bid for the club at the time?

It's often muted there were 2 or 3 other interested parties but either they didn't have the finances or stood back because of the "promise' to complete the stand - if that's true (and I remain sceptical given no names) it seems logical they neither had the finance to finish the stand or perhaps the business acumen to open up the land opportunity/entitlement.

[Terryfenwickatemyhamster]

Apparently the JR now has a date for next month - no idea how long the process takes but at least things are moving. I find it interesting CNDL have now posted such details on the warehouse plans as if the whole thing is a fait de accompli - personally and irrespective of the less than inspiring plans I'd like to see Cildara appeal to be 100% unsuccessful

I suppose it’s progress of sorts. I can't see CDNL coming out on top in this one. Leaving the Trusts preferred bidder winning the day. It’s not like we’re not used to a state of limbo.

The only card I can see the council playing regarding its choice to offer it to the club for less, is its proximity to the stadium, of which they are the landlords. Edging their bets with the promise from KT that they will complete the stand and keep the club solvent. But I doubt any of that will hold any water at a judicial review. With nothing more than an informal agreement to do so.

Let’s hope the club have a better “special advisor” than some..

[MCHammer]

It's a good point and one I have argued a number of times - of course one of the counters is he was only able to negotiate that entitlement by first acquiring the football club which is certainly true but goes back to who really also put in an alternative tangible bid for the club at the time?

This isn't really correct.  Very little if anything about owning the club gave any entitlement to the development land.  The club, owners, CDNL only have any control over the development land, including half the ACV land, because they bought CDNL out of administration by agreeing a settlement with the biggest creditor Buckinghams.  This meant they aquired the long term leasholds across the whole development land.  Anyone could have attempted to do the same.

If they had not done so the club would have no stronger position than anyone else bidding for the land.  In addition there would have been a whole load of complexity over who owns the ACV running track land due to the multiple leases that exist.  This is only not an issue currently as the club control all of the multiple leases.

Don't forget some people were critical of the owners for doing this at the time as the original plan was that CDNL would be disolved and the leases would return to the council.  The council were planning to use the land to try and recoup some of the losses they sustained from the DC loans.