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Redevelopment Closer Than Ever?

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BedsCobb
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« Reply #39240 on: June 04, 2023, 07:42:18 am »

To be fair, whilst most of us would admit that Sixfields needs an expansion7/upgrade, it is certainly not non-league.

You do those that serve the club a disservice with sweeping statements like that.
The population of Northampton is near in 250,000 and growing with tiny Sixfields inadequate able to accommodate just 6400 of them for all the bigger league one  games.
Several visiting clubs next season would easily outsell the 1200 tickets they have, thus losing even more gate and other revenues..
This on going saga  signs  to Sixfields not only being non league but also a civic disgrace, so if any of those who 'serve the club'     you fear might be done a disservice are in anyway responsible for the continuous mothballing of our club and its soon to be loss of 23 acres by their subservience, walking around with their eyes and mouths shut, pretending all good when Sixfields burns,
then it's what  they deserve.
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« Reply #39241 on: June 04, 2023, 07:56:41 am »

So, back to Brighton. 1. They have an owner worth 100s of millions - 2. He’s prepared to spend it on the club.-3. Have we someone of similar financial standing prepared to do the same.
Unless we are able to match or better all 3 of those fundamentals the comparison is completely irrelevant. When you raised it I assumed there was genuinely something I had missed and you were not as intellectually challenged as I thought. There wasn’t and you are.

If Brighton had got saddled with cdnl they'd still be at the withdean ..So any investment opportunities would've been lost to them as it has for us these past mothballed 20 years.

Also it would cost £4  million to finish the East stand and expand the south stand capacity by 3000.
So we don't need anyone with £100m just the use of 6 acres of the 23 if not to be all lost to our clubs enabling.
WNC/CDNL alliance must be stopped for our club to receive its fair share, they believe we're not worthy, we all know we are.
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« Reply #39242 on: June 04, 2023, 08:11:31 am »

Why should the JR matter?
Didn’t the owners state that they would redevelop the ground when they first took over the club?
Wasn’t that part of the deal?

I still find it odd that some on here seem to think that the redevelopment seems linked to the land acquisition.
This was never the case at the time they purchased the club so why should it be now?

I think that is the crux of the issue for many fans.
That’s the point, it wasn’t part of any deal. People assumed it was, but that was never the case. Think about it, a L2 club with a big tax bill about to go out of business, realistically what’s that worth? Stipulate you’ve got to finish the stand and you’re putting a 3 million + value on it. Additionally you’re asking any purchaser to evaluate the stand, identify the final design, cost it, and complete due diligence and a feasibility study on the project at the same time as buying the club in a matter of a couple of weeks. All for a L2 club about to go pop, people are deluding themselves. If it was part of any deal it would have been in a condition of sale contract and it wasn’t so there was no deal. It would have been impossible to unconditionally commit to that under those circumstances. People might not like it, but that’s the way it was.
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« Reply #39243 on: June 04, 2023, 08:15:13 am »

Why should the JR matter?
Didn’t the owners state that they would redevelop the ground when they first took over the club?
Wasn’t that part of the deal?

I still find it odd that some on here seem to think that the redevelopment seems linked to the land acquisition.
This was never the case at the time they purchased the club so why should it be now?

I think that is the crux of the issue for many fans.
They did indeed.
I'm also a little perplexed that an on-going operating loss of 1 million a year has long been used, on this forum at least, to defend the fact that didn't happen.
Are we expected to believe that these guys didn't have a scooby of how much the cub would cost to run before they bought it?
Not like the chairman hasn't had previous experience in running football clubs.
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« Reply #39244 on: June 04, 2023, 08:17:31 am »

If Brighton had got saddled with cdnl they'd still be at the withdean ..So any investment opportunities would've been lost to them as it has for us these past mothballed 20 years.

Also it would cost £4  million to finish the East stand and expand the south stand capacity by 3000.
So we don't need anyone with £100m just the use of 6 acres of the 23 if not to be all lost to our clubs enabling.
WNC/CDNL alliance must be stopped for our club to receive its fair share, they believe we're not worthy, we all know we are.
Still not addressing the elephant in the room though are you. No one is prepared to take this forward at this time, beyond this imaginary anonymous figure in your head.
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« Reply #39245 on: June 04, 2023, 09:10:38 am »

They did indeed.
I'm also a little perplexed that an on-going operating loss of 1 million a year has long been used, on this forum at least, to defend the fact that didn't happen.
Are we expected to believe that these guys didn't have a scooby of how much the cub would cost to run before they bought it?
Not like the chairman hasn't had previous experience in running football clubs.

They spoke about a 5 year plan. Although I don’t think anyone knows what the detailed initial business plan was when they took over beyond the owners themselves. You can guarantee that whatever it was, actual events unfolded nothing like they envisaged. I’d put good money on the reality being a long long way from the plan, so on that basis I don’t think they did have a Scooby.
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« Reply #39246 on: June 04, 2023, 09:17:30 am »

Still not addressing the elephant in the room though are you. No one is prepared to take this forward at this time, beyond this imaginary anonymous figure in your head.

Quite correct.

A. It makes no financial sense for the current owners to pump money into the stadium other than finishing the east.

B. No new owners are likely to either unless acquiring the stadium.

C. The council wont put more money into it.

D?

Choose one. The never ending story continues, similarly to this thread.

There also is an answer to your last question, not so imaginary and not connected to Beds.
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« Reply #39247 on: June 04, 2023, 09:24:55 am »

I do challenge the ROI figures some post here as they're based on selling seats for a few weekends a year, I don't know of any business plan that would stack up with that. If the seats sat on top of a successful business however things change, the seats become just window dressing.

Stop thinking of ways to pay for seats and focus on the huge amount of empty space you create below and just imagine how you could fill that week in week out. Get that right and youll find the seats on the roof come free.
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« Reply #39248 on: June 04, 2023, 09:25:02 am »

Quite correct.

A. It makes no financial sense for the current owners to pump money into the stadium other than finishing the east.

B. No new owners are likely to either unless acquiring the stadium.

C. The council wont put more money into it.

D?

Choose one. The never ending story continues, similarly to this thread.

There also is an answer to your last question, not so imaginary and not connected to Beds.
A 365 venue attached to the North maybe, with a tier over the existing stand, a micro brewery and room for live music.
Oh wait, we've been there before...
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« Reply #39249 on: June 04, 2023, 09:25:41 am »

Quite correct.

A. It makes no financial sense for the current owners to pump money into the stadium other than finishing the east.

B. No new owners are likely to either unless acquiring the stadium.

C. The council wont put more money into it.

D?

Choose one. The never ending story continues, similarly to this thread.

There also is an answer to your last question, not so imaginary and not connected to Beds.
If so happy days. People can only make a judgement on what’s known, they don’t know what they don’t know.
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« Reply #39250 on: June 04, 2023, 09:34:29 am »

They spoke about a 5 year plan. Although I don’t think anyone knows what the detailed initial business plan was when they took over beyond the owners themselves. You can guarantee that whatever it was, actual events unfolded nothing like they envisaged. I’d put good money on the reality being a long long way from the plan, so on that basis I don’t think they did have a Scooby.
I'm sure they would have spoken about a 5 year plan, probably culminating in an exit strategy.
That wasn't my point. Alongside any development strategy there is the day to day running costs. KT has been chairman of Oxford for 4 years and senior advisor to the chairman of Torquay for 3.5 years previously.
I think he will have had a very good idea of the 5 year running costs of a league two club. You could never convince me he/they didn't have a scooby about that.
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« Reply #39251 on: June 04, 2023, 09:40:55 am »

A 365 venue attached to the North maybe, with a tier over the existing stand, a micro brewery and room for live music.
Oh wait, we've been there before...

I'm delighted you remember. Yes a community centre to be more precise. Unfortunately other events surrounding the club made any further progress impossible.

It is a very long story however but very real, the business plan complete only GCI work to complete. Thanks to the delays of year caused by other  issues it could be a much better time to something positive to discuss.
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« Reply #39252 on: June 04, 2023, 09:49:26 am »

I'm sure they would have spoken about a 5 year plan, probably culminating in an exit strategy.
That wasn't my point. Alongside any development strategy there is the day to day running costs. KT has been chairman of Oxford for 4 years and senior advisor to the chairman of Torquay for 3.5 years previously.
I think he will have had a very good idea of the 5 year running costs of a league two club. You could never convince me he/they didn't have a scooby about that.
I’m sure they did. However, I think Chris Wilder leaving was a bit of a body blow. They had a long standing relationship and envisaged that partnership being in place for considerably longer than what they ended up with. It resulted in a succession of managers, paying them off and the relentless turnover of playing staff as a result. Somebody told me there was around a hundred players that went through the books whilst Andy Melville was head of recruitment. I don’t think they foresaw any of that. So whilst they obviously had a lot of experience in average costs, I think there was probably a lot of unforeseen instability that cost significant sums beyond anything they expected.
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« Reply #39253 on: June 04, 2023, 10:04:44 am »

I'm delighted you remember. Yes a community centre to be more precise. Unfortunately other events surrounding the club made any further progress impossible.

It is a very long story however but very real, the business plan complete only GCI work to complete. Thanks to the delays of year caused by other  issues it could be a much better time to something positive to discuss.
I never doubted the intention, and would have supported it, but always felt things would be put in the way to male it a reality.
Now would be a good time for anyone willing to have another try.
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« Reply #39254 on: June 04, 2023, 10:17:42 am »

If so happy days. People can only make a judgement on what’s known, they don’t know what they don’t know.

I did discuss a plan some time ago as Worthless remembers, it absolutely works and designed specifically for the community land issue. There will be gains for the council, the club owners but most importantly the local community.

Once the legal wranglings and Trust involvement began last tear it became too cloudy I could not ask the chaps to continue. The people who put this together are no longer available as they are too busy now, this was put together during lockdown but it has taken this long to extract their work and data from the plan and to make the necessary adjustments. It is now more relevant and stronger than before.

I cant put CGI work together and that is the only way to truly understand the concept but I do have an architect coming to assist, he also worked on St. Pancras so he should be able to cope! I wish I could have made it in time for the open meeting but it is not far away.

I did speak too early before and of course the worst did happen but this time as I own all the documentation but posting the business plan wont do, I need the walk through images to tell the full story.

As far as I can tell nothing has happened in a year and the opportunity remains.
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« Reply #39255 on: June 04, 2023, 10:29:03 am »

Thank you Recluse, The only way to describe it really is if Carlsberg did community centres.

Yes a Brew Pub is at the centre of it, we need money, however it delivers much more for the community especially focusing on good food and produce from the county. It is hoped to connect with schools and colleges to help train our new chefs and to create educational opportunities and of course jobs. This also links in with Jon and the team with sports diets and science also food security and so on, so very prevalent today.

Open from all day, every day serving the very best of the counties produce. Breakfast, lunch and dinner!

The main change since last year is that we think its possible to increase capacity by 2500 so an extra 500 plus also an attractive investor package hence an extra 500 seats.
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« Reply #39256 on: June 04, 2023, 10:33:24 am »

I did discuss a plan some time ago as Worthless remembers, it absolutely works and designed specifically for the community land issue. There will be gains for the council, the club owners but most importantly the local community.

Once the legal wranglings and Trust involvement began last tear it became too cloudy I could not ask the chaps to continue. The people who put this together are no longer available as they are too busy now, this was put together during lockdown but it has taken this long to extract their work and data from the plan and to make the necessary adjustments. It is now more relevant and stronger than before.

I cant put CGI work together and that is the only way to truly understand the concept but I do have an architect coming to assist, he also worked on St. Pancras so he should be able to cope! I wish I could have made it in time for the open meeting but it is not far away.

I did speak too early before and of course the worst did happen but this time as I own all the documentation but posting the business plan wont do, I need the walk through images to tell the full story.

As far as I can tell nothing has happened in a year and the opportunity remains.
Full credit to you for doing something pro-active to try and move things forward. I wondered what had happened, but am still really looking forward to seeing the proposals. I have no idea how attractive they will be at this point obviously, but have the upmost respect for anyone prepared to invest this much time and effort  into something to try and make a difference.
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« Reply #39257 on: June 04, 2023, 11:31:49 am »

Full credit to you for doing something pro-active to try and move things forward. I wondered what had happened, but am still really looking forward to seeing the proposals. I have no idea how attractive they will be at this point obviously, but have the upmost respect for anyone prepared to invest this much time and effort  into something to try and make a difference.

Indeed - I have no idea on the economics of the original idea or indeed if it were to go forward in the future but the important point, it being a positive initiative rather than just (repeatedly) stating what’s wrong with the current situation but having absolutely no deliverable concept on how to improve things.

Something that benefits the community as a whole and the football club should be embraced by the supporters (preferably with the Trust leading), the wider community, WNC and the club owners - that level of solidarity would bring in more expertise and indeed potential investors - it’s that lack of unity (where egos and having to be right guide the actions) that I’ve constantly argued against means up to now such projects never get off the ground.
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« Reply #39258 on: June 04, 2023, 11:47:03 am »

Maybe we can have a microbrewery where the club used to be if things go pear shaped and no one is prepared to pick up the tab.
Let’s not worry about the clubs future and the owners future intentions when we can discuss a real ale venture…. Roll Eyes

Maybe we should set up a real ale trust instead  Wink
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« Reply #39259 on: June 04, 2023, 21:41:14 pm »

That’s the point, it wasn’t part of any deal. People assumed it was, but that was never the case. Think about it, a L2 club with a big tax bill about to go out of business, realistically what’s that worth? Stipulate you’ve got to finish the stand and you’re putting a 3 million + value on it. Additionally you’re asking any purchaser to evaluate the stand, identify the final design, cost it, and complete due diligence and a feasibility study on the project at the same time as buying the club in a matter of a couple of weeks. All for a L2 club about to go pop, people are deluding themselves. If it was part of any deal it would have been in a condition of sale contract and it wasn’t so there was no deal. It would have been impossible to unconditionally commit to that under those circumstances. People might not like it, but that’s the way it was.
Nonsense,  the tax bill was just 125k..for a club with a £3.5m turnover..
Let's add gullible to your growing list of shortcomings.
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