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Redevelopment Closer Than Ever?

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Turf Claret
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« Reply #1160 on: April 20, 2014, 16:50:58 pm »

You are right.  There's been no new plans for the east or even confirmed details about what they are now planning in the east.....................

......................The plans for the west won't cost a lot.  So there is clealy a lot of the borrowed £12m left.  How much goes on the stands and how much goes on the hotel and conferencing facilities we will have to wait and see.  My only assumption is that the club haven't decided yet exactly what they are doing.

May I be the first to suggest then, that in the same way that most referees are informed throughout a match: "they don't know what they're ......."
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« Reply #1161 on: April 20, 2014, 16:57:49 pm »

...as with out it we can't compete out of league 2?

We can compete in  the Skrill.
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« Reply #1162 on: April 20, 2014, 17:00:16 pm »

Lee lee, they need stopping in their tracks.

They are taking the p155.

Cardoza needs to give us a 10,000 capacity as promised to the NBC and the people of Northampton.
The proposed East stand  shown in the drawings has to be built as promised.

We've waited long enough, time to deliver, or go!
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« Reply #1163 on: April 20, 2014, 17:02:53 pm »

...as with out it we can't compete out of league 2?

We can compete in  the Skrill.
If that's your wish Huh?
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« Reply #1164 on: April 20, 2014, 17:51:09 pm »

I think somewhere along the line, the whole 10k requirement for the championship has been taken as fact, when in fact it is total nonsense.  The only requirement for Championship football is that it is all seater.  The only capacity criteria for the whole of the football league is that you must have a capacity of at least 4k, with the potential to take it to 5k.  Our stadium clearly meets the criteria so why do we need a 10k stadium?  Surely at 8k with 3k empty seats and more corporate facilities is better than a 10k stadium with 5k empty seats and less corporate facilities.  IF we EVER get to the Championship it would take very little to fill in the corners and get us another couple of thousand seats.

It is so frustrating to see so many people arguing over this mystery 10k figure without knowing what they are talking about, and before anyone tries to shoot me down....

http://www.football-league.co.uk/regulations/20130704/appendix-1_2293633_2128158

Now go find something else to have a moan about...
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« Reply #1165 on: April 20, 2014, 18:17:33 pm »

I think somewhere along the line, the whole 10k requirement for the championship has been taken as fact, when in fact it is total nonsense.  The only requirement for Championship football is that it is all seater.  The only capacity criteria for the whole of the football league is that you must have a capacity of at least 4k, with the potential to take it to 5k.  Our stadium clearly meets the criteria so why do we need a 10k stadium?  Surely at 8k with 3k empty seats and more corporate facilities is better than a 10k stadium with 5k empty seats and less corporate facilities.  IF we EVER get to the Championship it would take very little to fill in the corners and get us another couple of thousand seats.

It is so frustrating to see so many people arguing over this mystery 10k figure without knowing what they are talking about, and before anyone tries to shoot me down....

http://www.football-league.co.uk/regulations/20130704/appendix-1_2293633_2128158

Now go find something else to have a moan about...
You sir have missed the point by a 100 miles,

Quick food for thought... we were given a loan and Cardoza promised to deliver a fit for purpose stadium, so even he agrees its not viable to compete and sustain any promotion campaign if we have a tiny ground that can house just 6000 local people from a population of 220,000 and allow just 1200 visiting fans to a centrally located ground, but we would be unable to capitalise on the dozens of teams who could easily request over 3,4 or 5000 tickets, so simple  mathematics show we need capacity.

You are in the minority of 2 on here or you have misunderstood the thread?
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« Reply #1166 on: April 20, 2014, 18:20:49 pm »

I think somewhere along the line, the whole 10k requirement for the championship has been taken as fact, when in fact it is total nonsense.  The only requirement for Championship football is that it is all seater.  The only capacity criteria for the whole of the football league is that you must have a capacity of at least 4k, with the potential to take it to 5k.  Our stadium clearly meets the criteria so why do we need a 10k stadium?  Surely at 8k with 3k empty seats and more corporate facilities is better than a 10k stadium with 5k empty seats and less corporate facilities.  IF we EVER get to the Championship it would take very little to fill in the corners and get us another couple of thousand seats.

It is so frustrating to see so many people arguing over this mystery 10k figure without knowing what they are talking about, and before anyone tries to shoot me down....

http://www.football-league.co.uk/regulations/20130704/appendix-1_2293633_2128158

Now go find something else to have a moan about...

Interesting page that! I noticed that it is a FL requirement to have brighter floodlights next season, in fact almost 40% brighter next season than this in League 2.....and I also notice that the minimum size of the dressing rooms has been increased from 18 square metres to 30 square metres.....funnily enough floodlights and dressing rooms are two of our trumpeted ground improvements......improvements that would have had to be made anyway!!
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« Reply #1167 on: April 20, 2014, 18:25:05 pm »

I think somewhere along the line, the whole 10k requirement for the championship has been taken as fact, when in fact it is total nonsense.  The only requirement for Championship football is that it is all seater.  The only capacity criteria for the whole of the football league is that you must have a capacity of at least 4k, with the potential to take it to 5k.  Our stadium clearly meets the criteria so why do we need a 10k stadium?  Surely at 8k with 3k empty seats and more corporate facilities is better than a 10k stadium with 5k empty seats and less corporate facilities.  IF we EVER get to the Championship it would take very little to fill in the corners and get us another couple of thousand seats.

It is so frustrating to see so many people arguing over this mystery 10k figure without knowing what they are talking about, and before anyone tries to shoot me down....

http://www.football-league.co.uk/regulations/20130704/appendix-1_2293633_2128158

Now go find something else to have a moan about...

That post is far too sensible to have any credence whatsoever on here.
Dont you realise that we need 10000 seats so we can all look at wide open spaces for the next twenty years ?
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« Reply #1168 on: April 20, 2014, 18:41:01 pm »

That post is far too sensible to have any credence whatsoever on here.
Dont you realise that we need 10000 seats so we can all look at wide open spaces for the next twenty years ?

Just to add further insight into where the £12m will be swallowed up, Premier Inn estimate that a hotel build costs on average £50k per room, so a 100 bedroom hotel would cost £5m, and the likelihood is that our hotel will be significantly bigger than that, plus PI do not build conference facilities as part of it.  A sensible guestimate would be the hotel will cost £7m-£10m but will generate the 365 day income that the redevelopment has always been about. http://www.cnplus.co.uk/home/news-analysis/premier-inns-prime-focus-for-1bn-pipeline/8655650.article#.U1QRr17fYcM

If the hotel, conference centre and improved corporate facilities are a success, these will generate the long term income to put more seats in WHEN we need them.  Do we want to be a Darlo or MK dons who rattled around in a oversized empty stadium?  This would make our current atmosphere look like the old firm derby....

I know its been a rubbish season, but getting on DC's back and questioning his business strategy (which is a perfectly good one - short term cash generation that pays for long term improvements that will eventually result is improved match day revenues and non match day revenues), his integrity, and his intentions are ridiculous.  If this was a man that was ready to walk away, he would not have paid CW's compensation when their are 100's of reasonable managers unemployed and he would not keep putting his money where his mouth is and bringing in new players to try and get us out of this.  Anyone who thinks our club is worth much more £ in the FL than the Conference is deluded, in either league it is only worth the value of its property assets and they are not linked to league position.
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« Reply #1169 on: April 20, 2014, 18:50:32 pm »

Chesterfield...12,000
Rotherham....15,000
Peterboro......20,000
Oxford...........12,000
Shrewsbury.....12,000
Watford..........25,000
Brentford........20,000
Wycombe.......10,000
Mk.................30,000
Walsall...........12,000

Cobblers.         7000

Just to add further insight into where the £12m will be swallowed up, Premier Inn estimate that a hotel build costs on average £50k per room, so a 100 bedroom hotel would cost £5m, and the likelihood is that our hotel will be significantly bigger than that, plus PI do not build conference facilities as part of it.  A sensible guestimate would be the hotel will cost £7m-£10m but will generate the 365 day income that the redevelopment has always been about. http://www.cnplus.co.uk/home/news-analysis/premier-inns-prime-focus-for-1bn-pipeline/8655650.article#.U1QRr17fYcM

If the hotel, conference centre and improved corporate facilities are a success, these will generate the long term income to put more seats in WHEN we need them.  Do we want to be a Darlo or MK dons who rattled around in a oversized empty stadium?  This would make our current atmosphere look like the old firm derby....

I know its been a rubbish season, but getting on DC's back and questioning his business strategy (which is a perfectly good one - short term cash generation that pays for long term improvements that will eventually result is improved match day revenues and non match day revenues), his integrity, and his intentions are ridiculous.  If this was a man that was ready to walk away, he would not have paid CW's compensation when their are 100's of reasonable managers unemployed and he would not keep putting his money where his mouth is and bringing in new players to try and get us out of this.  Anyone who thinks our club is worth much more £ in the FL than the Conference is deluded, in either league it is only worth the value of its property assets and they are not linked to league position.

The biggest town on the list with smallest capacity?

We wont always be saddled with non football people, so we need to have the structure in place to attract them.
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« Reply #1170 on: April 20, 2014, 19:03:17 pm »

Chesterfield...12,000
Rotherham....15,000
Peterboro......20,000
Oxford...........12,000
Shrewsbury.....12,000
Watford..........25,000
Brentford........20,000
Wycombe.......10,000
Mk.................30,000
Walsall...........12,000

Cobblers.         7000
The biggest town on the list with smallest capacity?

We wont always be saddled with non football people, so we need to have the structure in place to attract them.


Now lets put some facts to that list....



Chesterfield...12,000 ave 6,153
Rotherham....15,000 ave 8,438
Peterboro......20,000 ave 6,347
Oxford...........12,000 ave 5,964
Shrewsbury.....12,000 ave 5,579
Watford..........25,000 ave 15,518
Brentford........20,000 ave 7,549
Wycombe.......10,000 ave 3,541
Mk.................30,000 ave 8,932
Walsall...........12,000 ave 4,876

Cobblers.         7000 ave 4,298

Only some of our support would prioritise building seats that over the course of a season go unused, over building facilities that will be used by non football supporters (hotel/conference) and corporate facilities (ours currently are typically selling out even though they are of port quality).

I'm not saying we won't ever need more seats, I'm just saying we won't need them in the foreseeable future.  When demand gets even close to supply, then build the seats.  There is absolutely no benefit in spending cash on seats that will only be sat on once or twice a season.
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« Reply #1171 on: April 20, 2014, 19:20:06 pm »

Ok Sussex but what happens if when we need them the council won't give (lend) us another £10 million to build the extra seats?

Also why are you so confident that any profit from the hotel will be fed back into the club, never mind the team?

Who will own the hotel that WE have paid for?? bet you it won't be NTFC ltd

The big questions to me at the minute are about how much County Developments (Dave Cardoza, family and friends) are charging to do any work?  What conditions have the council put on the loans to DC / club?

How will the hotel / conference centre earn the club money exactly and how much?

What is happening to the other sixfields development? Are County doing all that too?

The arguments about capacity are nonsense at the minute as under DC we are only going in one direction, carries on like this and we will only need changing rooms ala the racecourse let alone 10 000 capacity.



 
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« Reply #1172 on: April 20, 2014, 19:27:32 pm »


They are taking the p155.


is that a property developer's equivalent of a p45?
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« Reply #1173 on: April 20, 2014, 19:28:38 pm »

Sussex, you need to go to business school if you think DC has good business strategy !

In 10 years we have gone from 1 million debt roughly to £8 million debt, from 17th Div 1 to rock bottom Div 2.

We have no player assets, half? the number of season ticket holders, massive reduction in quality and numbers of staff and still no decent training facilities


We don't even have a 5 year plan any more either. Only an 18 month one that we are some-how going to do in 5 months, yet it took us 3 years to remove an old advert of Giles Coke, that was covered in mold, selling a club tie you couldn't buy !  mind you it was hidden in the west stand concourse opposite the snack bar !!!!!

yeah great way to run and grow a business !!!!!!!!!!!!
  
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« Reply #1174 on: April 20, 2014, 19:42:04 pm »

Just to add further insight into where the £12m will be swallowed up, Premier Inn estimate that a hotel build costs on average £50k per room, so a 100 bedroom hotel would cost £5m, and the likelihood is that our hotel will be significantly bigger than that, plus PI do not build conference facilities as part of it.  A sensible guestimate would be the hotel will cost £7m-£10m but will generate the 365 day income that the redevelopment has always been about. http://www.cnplus.co.uk/home/news-analysis/premier-inns-prime-focus-for-1bn-pipeline/8655650.article#.U1QRr17fYcM

If the hotel, conference centre and improved corporate facilities are a success, these will generate the long term income to put more seats in WHEN we need them.  Do we want to be a Darlo or MK dons who rattled around in a oversized empty stadium?  This would make our current atmosphere look like the old firm derby....



Every report I have read says we are getting a 100 room hotel. In terms of transparency it may be good to publish the split of spend on the hotel and ground. The original plan was the double the size of the East with conference facilities and well as 10 boxes in the west. If like you say the hotel is £7m-£10m then it's not the redevelopment promised. In fact, looking at the old redevelopment plans from 2007, the current plans are the Aldi version.
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« Reply #1175 on: April 20, 2014, 19:49:02 pm »

http://www.companiesintheuk.co.uk/ltd/county-developments-(northampton)

http://www.companiesintheuk.co.uk/ltd/northampton-town-football-club(the)


Interesting...
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« Reply #1176 on: April 20, 2014, 19:52:15 pm »

Sussex, you need to go to business school if you think DC has good business strategy !

In 10 years we have gone from 1 million debt roughly to £8 million debt, from 17th Div 1 to rock bottom Div 2.

We have no player assets, half? the number of season ticket holders, massive reduction in quality and numbers of staff and still no decent training facilities


We don't even have a 5 year plan any more either. Only an 18 month one that we are some-how going to do in 5 months, yet it took us 3 years to remove an old advert of Giles Coke, that was covered in mold, selling a club tie you couldn't buy !  mind you it was hidden in the west stand concourse opposite the snack bar !!!!!

yeah great way to run and grow a business !!!!!!!!!!!!
  


I wouldn't get too hung up on the debt, I'm not sure how much you know about taxation so sorry if I am teaching you how to suck eggs.  It is much more tax efficient for a owner to "loan" money to a club rather than "give" it.  Just about every owner does this, even good old Roman A was doing this until the UEFA FFP rules have made this a no-no.  DC would never try to take this money back out of the club, if he did, we would go into Administration, the tax man and "football creditors" would get their cash, and then he would join the list of other creditors who would get at best 10p in the £1 of what is left, and what is left would unlikely be the £70m he would need it to be to get his investment back.  He has wrote that money off already in reality, like pretty much every other owner of a lower league club.

I'm not sure whether you have stats to show the "halving" of season ticket holders, but I don't ever remember having much more than 3k, and I guess we have about 2.5k now, which considering the wider climate and rising cost of living, its not that surprising to see this move south a little.

I admit we have dropped a league, but over our 100 odd year history, we have generally bounced between the bottom two leagues, and I guess none of us would be that surprised if this was the case for the next 100 years, assuming we finish off the great escape this season!

Of course DC has made mistakes, as do most chairman at this level.  Could any of us do a better job, I'm not so sure?

In terms of revenue from the hotel etc, in fairness if this goes into the club, or into DC's pocket is an interesting question.  If DC is committed to the club, which I believe he is, then it really doesn't matter.  If his outside business interests include a hotel puts money in his pocket, this is money that he can channel into the club through tax efficient loans.  If it goes directly to the club, then it is just less money he needs to put in to top us up.

I guess I'm just trying to offer a different well thought out view, I will save my irrational and emotional views for tomorrows game!
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« Reply #1177 on: April 20, 2014, 19:54:26 pm »

The Cardozas live in Sussex. Just sayin'.
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« Reply #1178 on: April 20, 2014, 19:54:56 pm »


Setting up his own company to do this is smart, what we should be looking out for is when they file their accounts next year to see whether the business turned a profit, or whether it was used as a vehicle to control the project spend.
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« Reply #1179 on: April 20, 2014, 19:56:08 pm »

The Cardozas live in Sussex. Just sayin'.


Haha!!!! I wish!  If they do want to move to Horsham though, I have no spare rooms but do have a hammock in the garden!
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