Redevelopment Closer Than Ever?

[guest49]

It's still a bit chicken and egg. Doesn't matter what sized ground we have, we need success on the pitch first. Even in a short 20 years the landscape has changed dramatically. We are a million miles from a 40k+ following at Wembley, the Bradford game was an indicator of that.
Kids football commitments, video games, digital content to watch sport, rising ticket prices, changing economic environment and the Saints growth locally all make the appeal of visiting Sixfields more challenging.
Would it have sold out if it was free today, doubtful.
Northampton is no more a footballing hotbed than it is for music and art. Our golden eras are more of a golden season or two and that's because we normally implode on the pitch and not because we lack capacity.
Having said that, I wish he'd finish that bloody stand....

We need to get to the other end of the table and get to the next level. I think you'd quickly see the ends extended and a few sell outs.
I don't think any businessman with a few million to bank roll us is ever going to take too much of a risk building a potential white elephant. Unless they can have those other 'blades of grass' as you put it.

[BedsCobb]

It's still a bit chicken and egg. Doesn't matter what sized ground we have, we need success on the pitch first. Even in a short 20 years the landscape has changed dramatically. We are a million miles from a 40k+ following at Wembley, the Bradford game was an indicator of that.
Kids football commitments, video games, digital content to watch sport, rising ticket prices, changing economic environment and the Saints growth locally all make the appeal of visiting Sixfields more challenging.
Would it have sold out if it was free today, doubtful.
Northampton is no more a footballing hotbed than it is for music and art. Our golden eras are more of a golden season or two and that's because we normally implode on the pitch and not because we lack capacity.
Having said that, I wish he'd finish that bloody stand....

We need to get to the other end of the table and get to the next level. I think you'd quickly see the ends extended and a few sell outs.
I don't think any businessman with a few million to bank roll us is ever going to take too much of a risk building a potential white elephant. Unless they can have those other 'blades of grass' as you put it.

Those blades of grass could be the clubs spring board if in the right hands and those dont seem to remotely  belong to Thomas.
Having seen and heard enough (or not) from the present incumbents, I seriously  hope the Council refuse them the free land but reserve it for those willing to guarantee  investment in the ground not just hollow promises.
They dont even have to be connected to our club just finish off the east stand and a 3000 extention behind the south to an acceptable standard.
The council should allow house builders/developers  to bid for the land with a condition they profit and our club gets the redevelopment.
If that sounds to obvious a solution, its because it is.

[singcobb]

your constant referal to the film of dreams doesnt fit in this context as its not a case of build it and they will come, more like they're here already and waiting for it to be built.
Your love for skirting around the issues to find a dead end or this case the whole county of Northampton makes little sense as Northampton is big enough to support a challenging league 1/ championship club but we would by close proximity attract many from our county to get involved with their local club.
At the moment we are not growing just treading water as is the wish of our 'owners' but they could just as easily  show some ambition and grow the club in stages with sustainable growth helped by attracting just a small percentage of those would be fans lost due to our clubs past inability to build up as a competitive club.
Rich benefactors are welcome but not essential as from the counties 730,000 inhabitants you would only need to have 20,000 attending regulars (not all at once just yet) to a better more professional ground,  which equates to 8 to 10,000 attending per game, still attracting less than 1.45% up from the current paltry 0.7% we get now. This would move us into a position to be league 1 challengers with futher steady growth   soon to follow.. So you see how easy it is to get things moving but for those who hold us back.

The problem is not even a fraction of the 20,000 figure you plucked from your árse are coming to fill the empty seats week after week. No sane business person will extend a ground that isn't bursting to capacity every week. Hence the need for a sugar daddy. You can bitch all you like about KT not getting a blade of grass, but at this moment in time he is the only show in town. If we were that much of a good business prospect without the land deal then other investors would have been climbing over each other to get us when we were up for grabs for pennies. I really hope that KT will stick to his word and finish the East, but I have a horrible feeling that if he doesn't get the land he will walk away and leave us up shít creek to be run by a group of Chinese business men who from what I can see are punching over their weight.

[Shoemaker]

I’ve been told there are other parties interested in purchasing the land from the council.
If this is true they won’t be selling it to KT and ntfc on the cheap will they.
Imagine the scenes....
We were offered £10M but sold it to the club for £1M
The council have to get the best deal for the taxpayers of northampton.
After the last shenanigans the only way the club will purchase that land is if they offer the best price....
They won’t

[guest49]

I’ve been told there are other parties interested in purchasing the land from the council.
If this is true they won’t be selling it to KT and ntfc on the cheap will they.
Imagine the scenes....
We were offered £10M but sold it to the club for £1M
The council have to get the best deal for the taxpayers of northampton.
After the last shenanigans the only way the club will purchase that land is if they offer the best price....
They won’t

That's how I see it. KT rolls the dice with a small stake and loses, with Cardoza losing the big prize with the winning hand. Once bitten for the council, who are still trying to pick up the pieces.

[BedsCobb]

The problem is not even a fraction of the 20,000 figure you plucked from your árse are coming to fill the empty seats week after week. No sane business person will extend a ground that isn't bursting to capacity every week. Hence the need for a sugar daddy. You can **** all you like about KT not getting a blade of grass, but at this moment in time he is the only show in town. If we were that much of a good business prospect without the land deal then other investors would have been climbing over each other to get us when we were up for grabs for pennies. I really hope that KT will stick to his word and finish the East, but I have a horrible feeling that if he doesn't get the land he will walk away and leave us up shít creek to be run by a group of Chinese business men who from what I can see are punching over their weight.

Unless you can control your all or nothing stance our discussions aren't getting anywhere, firstly why on earth must the stadium be bursting to the gunwales every game and why do we need a Russian oligarch to finance us?
Can't you agree having a professional looking stadium fit for purpose with enough capacity to grow into and sustain a league 1 challenge and is able to take the next step, is an attractive place in which to watch football and socialise that makes visitors want to return time and again, which all helps the club build its support base?
I think we both agree Sixfields as it is, is unattractive with very poor facilities  and for 20 years now, holding back our club.
As for KT you put him up on a pedestal in one sentence and then  fear his backlash if he doesn't get the vast acreage of valuable free land in the next.
Hopefully he can either completely  change his outlook and approach towards our clubs need for growth and start again in a more open manner  or sell  on the club at a good profit to more suitable owners who unlike KT, realises we have some potential and go about building up our club in a sustainable manner.
Where Northampton ventures and the Chinese fit in to all this is anyone's guess  

[singcobb]

The problem is as I said earlier we do not have someone at the helm who is a supporter. Yes KT should be on a pedestal for saving us, but as many on here have said(you included) the honeymoon is over. It is all well and good to blame the council, who I would think are sitting on their hands through fear of getting burnt again, but just how proactive is he being?
Yes I would love to see the club as a Championship regular side with a decent ground, but we will have to agree to disagree how this can be done and if ground expansion or crowd expansion comes first.

[Vintage Cobbler]

In recent months I have attended corporate hospitality events at Sixways Stadium, home of Worcester RFC and the Ricoh Arena, both times on non-match days and both were very busy.  It was obvious that a good amount of money was being banked by the stadium owners.  There was a busy air about the places.  Worcester makes an interesting comparison with Northampton in that what is now a rage modern main stand was not unlike our East Stand previously.  Inside there are lifts, restaurants, conference small, medium and large and most if not all occupied.  I was told that the Worcester redevelopment cost about £6-7 million all paid for by the owner who sold his Worcester business to Bosch some years ago.  The Ricoh from what I saw of it (one side of the ground) was splendid and although I know CCFC are tenants only an example that what can be achieved.  None of us Cobblers can be but jealous of the stadium at MK, dislike the shower thought we do.

My point is this is that the demand appears to be there if you build these facilities.  Worcester in population terms is less than half the size of Northampton and Coventry about a third larger.  All 3 have one thing in common, proximity to motorways and good catchment areas.  Like many sadly I don't see this happening under our present ownershio which is going to be our one great opportunity in a lifetime missed. What the Chinese bring to the party is as clear as mud.

PS Every major club in Birmingham & the Black Country except Walsall is Chinese owned but these Chines have a lot money.

[meccanostand]

Need some joined up thinking here and a joint sporting complex for Cobblers and Saints.ground share would be problematic but can't see the problem with 2 stadiums back to back.

[Vintage Cobbler]

We do, but taking the Ricoh example Warwick University, which is nearby to the Ricoh, also has great facilities including residential accommodation for weekend conferences etc. and none appear to be suffering from the competition.

I think the bigger issue is the need to know what, if indeed any, are the investment plans of the Ventures partners in NTFC.  Hard information is overdue.  Many seem to think that 5USport are punching above their weight at NTFC and, if this is so, this has to be worrying.  KT and David Bower have made their money it seems from the investment (reported to be £7million in the Mail on Sunday) but KT has stayed silent.  KT acquired the club on the condition from NBC that the East Stand was finished but 2 years on there is no sign of this happening.  On paper, and I stress on paper, if you add his original group's £4 million to the £7 million (less what he and Bower have taken for their shares in Ventures) there should be more than enough to get under way.

As each week passes in silence I become more and more concerned. 

[guest2487]

It's all a bit boring now isn't it? Dragged on so long I've lost interest to be honest. I known I'm commenting on this thread which is showing an interest!

I guess apathy has set in.

[guest2995]

I would like to know what the options are with the stand development if the council do not end up selling the land to the football club .
There may well be other bidders that will pay a higher price or it may be politically insensitive to sell it to the club and so it’s a real possibility .
Where does that leave us ?
Can we develop a stand without the land and are Venture interested in carrying on should this be the case ?
I don’t know why the council don’t simply state that they are not interested in dealing with the club unless the money comes back . I don’t blame them for taking this stance in the slightest.

[guest2539]

Personally I believe the club has moved on ie; new owners BUT the council have not!

Actions speak loudest and the Council seem to bricking themselves about making any decision whatsoever.
Therefore the electorate who are their paymasters are not being served!

[Cordwainer2]

I made my mind up not to look at this thread again as its just an endless repeat of the same things. But, I am drawn like a moth to a flame probably in the vain hope that there just might be something new to report. No sign yet so I will retreat to my cave.

[guest2995]

Personally I believe the club has moved on ie; new owners BUT the council have not!

Actions speak loudest and the Council seem to bricking themselves about making any decision whatsoever.
Therefore the electorate who are their paymasters are not being served!

It doesn’t really matter to the council whether the Cobblers have moved on or not .
They were shafted by the previous football club owners and so any favouritism subsequent to that will not be viewed at all well by those that vote them to power I’m afraid .
They should make their stance clear though so that we all know where we stand .
Personally , I don’t think the football club has any hope and it should make its plans independent of council action where possible .
If there was a miracle and the money came back , it might be different . But it won’t .
We have burnt our bridges and that’s the end of it .

[JollyCobbler]

I would like to know what the options are with the stand development if the council do not end up selling the land to the football club .
There may well be other bidders that will pay a higher price or it may be politically insensitive to sell it to the club and so it’s a real possibility .
Where does that leave us ?
Can we develop a stand without the land and are Venture interested in carrying on should this be the case ?
I don’t know why the council don’t simply state that they are not interested in dealing with the club unless the money comes back . I don’t blame them for taking this stance in the slightest.

And so would a majority of us.
It seems apparent that council and club cannot even agree on what the holdup is, so it's about time one of them laid their cards on the table. It is obvious why NBC would be reluctant to have any further (financial) dealings with NTFC - and this applies ever more so with a new-and-unknown quantity now holding the Sixfields reins - but there is no reason our owners cannot at least show us what they plan on building with the '3 million ring fenced for the stand.'
At least, then, people would have some idea of whose best intentions are being served. If it is as the club claim, and the dual issuing of a lease is holding up proceedings, then now would be a good time to reveal exactly which parcel of land is affected. Does the lease issue encroach onto parts of the existing build? Or does it only affect a plot the club/Ventures/Chinese have designs on?
The silence is deafening.
As is any constructive word from our new owners, or details on the source of their financial assets.

[The 12th Marquis of Sixfields]

I wouldn't bother trying to reason with beds. He genuinely thinks the ground is too small to sell out. That's all you need to know about his intelligence levels.

[guest168]

What about your levels then 12th?   You think that Sixfields has not held us back? That it's capacity serves us well as we don't often sell out?

Which cinema do you use?  Do you go there and sit in the very front row?

Tell you what everyone who says that 'we don't sell out, so don't need a bigger ground' brigade,  how about at the next home game, go and sit away from your mates and try the front row or two into the corners of the West stand. Cos thats what you are expecting the casual fan to do.

As the East stand doesn't have a roof, the better seats at Sixfield sell out every single game, every single season. Unless you are hospitality you cannot get in the Upper Row middle of the West, not even towards the back of the lower tier.

How you and other's cannot see that is unbelievable

[everbrite]

What about your levels then 12th?   You think that Sixfields has not held us back? That it's capacity serves us well as we don't often sell out?

Which cinema do you use?  Do you go there and sit in the very front row?

Tell you what everyone who says that 'we don't sell out, so don't need a bigger ground' brigade,  how about at the next home game, go and sit away from your mates and try the front row or two into the corners of the West stand. Cos thats what you are expecting the casual fan to do.

As the East stand doesn't have a roof, the better seats at Sixfield sell out every single game, every single season. Unless you are hospitality you cannot get in the Upper Row middle of the East, not even towards the back of the lower tier.

How you and other's cannot see that is unbelievable

Be interesting to see how you get on with the Marquis with your argument and/or Tel for that matter. I don't think your argument such as it is makes an awful lot of sense.

[Buster]

What about your levels then 12th?   You think that Sixfields has not held us back? That it's capacity serves us well as we don't often sell out?

Which cinema do you use?  Do you go there and sit in the very front row?

Tell you what everyone who says that 'we don't sell out, so don't need a bigger ground' brigade,  how about at the next home game, go and sit away from your mates and try the front row or two into the corners of the West stand. Cos thats what you are expecting the casual fan to do.

As the East stand doesn't have a roof, the better seats at Sixfield sell out every single game, every single season. Unless you are hospitality you cannot get in the Upper Row middle of the East, not even towards the back of the lower tier.

How you and other's cannot see that is unbelievable

Makes perfect sense to me.  In fact it's spot on.

Look at the average home attendances in our division.  The top four are Bradford, Portsmouth, Charlton and Blackburn.  No surprise there as they are are all traditional big clubs....  but who do you think is 5th ? Plymouth? Oxford? Wigan? No!

Ahead of them and averaging over 9,000 is MK Dons.  How come? The population of Milton Keynes is about the same as Northampton.  They aren't having a great season.  They have no long-standing lifelong supporters like us.  They have no history.  So what is the reason they are getting higher attendances than Plymouth, Peterborough, Wigan, Bristol et al.  It's is all down to the stadium.  Build it and they WILL come!