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Redevelopment Closer Than Ever?

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Author Topic: Redevelopment Closer Than Ever?  (Read 1819869 times)
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guest3114
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« Reply #20840 on: March 02, 2018, 07:06:23 am »

Firstly this is on topic as when being interviewed Jimmy FH looked around at the pathetic little stands and said get some perspective guys, this us Nort ham tun.. and do you know what he was right, we have nothing in the pipe line to improve our most basic amateurish  stadium and therefore unable to steadily build it up to attract and entice with hard sales those missing fans and sponsors with facilities you expect from a club based in such a great location.
Using examples of little Darlingtons failure and MK dons inability to sell out a 30,000 seater stadium in league 1 as  reason we shouldn't strive to improve on what little we have and  build up our clubs infrastructure is ridiculous.
Steady and sustainable growth will only benefit the clubs long term future and its this that we should all be demanding of those who have eyes on land leases etc
As Chris Wilder once said ' while theres still a deal to be done'

Fair comment but, thats a different argument. Still doesn't address the fact that the redevelopment didn't put anything on the gate of the club in question in direct contradiction to one of your justifications? Therefore, examples like that will create the issue of doubt regarding a return on investment. All you have done with your response is to fail to offer any sort of convincing rebuttal. Whilst that is fine in the realms of a fans forum whilst having a chat, that isn't going to get you very far out in the real world.
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« Reply #20841 on: March 02, 2018, 07:38:57 am »

Fair comment but, thats a different argument. Still doesn't address the fact that the redevelopment didn't put anything on the gate of the club in question in direct contradiction to one of your justifications? Therefore, examples like that will create the issue of doubt regarding a return on investment. All you have done with your response is to fail to offer any sort of convincing rebuttal. Whilst that is fine in the realms of a fans forum whilst having a chat, that isn't going to get you very far out in the real world.

Something that is also completely missed is the fact that a new stand won't increase attendances on its own. Having a bank of terracing behind the goal would not suddenly see another 3k fans turn up. The only way attendances will increase is if we were to be fighting for something higher up the league.
 
There are examples of new grounds increasing attendances, even MK's attendances went up when they moved into stadium MK, they have been on a downward spiral since the team has been s***. Ours pretty much doubled when we moved to Sixfields. So really for Beds to be accurate in claiming increased attendances, he should be arguing for a whole new ground.
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« Reply #20842 on: March 02, 2018, 08:22:02 am »

Firstly this is on topic as when being interviewed Jimmy FH looked around at the pathetic little stands and said get some perspective guys, this us Nort ham tun.. and do you know what he was right, we have nothing in the pipe line to improve our most basic amateurish  stadium and therefore unable to steadily build it up to attract and entice with hard sales those missing fans and sponsors with facilities you expect from a club based in such a great location.
Using examples of little Darlingtons failure and MK dons inability to sell out a 30,000 seater stadium in league 1 as  reason we shouldn't strive to improve on what little we have and  build up our clubs infrastructure is ridiculous.
Steady and sustainable growth will only benefit the clubs long term future and its this that we should all be demanding of those who have eyes on land leases etc
As Chris Wilder once said ' while theres still a deal to be done'

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« Reply #20843 on: March 02, 2018, 08:27:13 am »

No open mindedness from me where this lot are concerned. Despite what they think or want us to believe, we need a12000 capacity ground (3000 standing terracing built up behind the left in situe North and South stand seats, that would be the cheapest, most dynamic and visually pleasing to attract the many missing  supporters and sponsorship  with adequate corperate facilities (not costing a crazy £4m as suggested) and a large supporters bar.
All works completed in stages over a 5 year period to make it sustainable.
There's really  no other option for us.

Will you shut the F*ck up .
Stop ruining every thread with your repetitive drivellings.
Why don’t you start a thread up on your own so that you can argue with yourself on there and stop annoying everyone else .
I take it you have never remortgaged your house to our money into the club ? No , I didn’t think so . So don’t criticise those that have put their money where their mouth is to try and take the club forward when you see it in your armchair with your laptop spouting rubbish .
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« Reply #20844 on: March 02, 2018, 08:27:46 am »

It always makes me smile when people question BedsCobb credentials when criticising the lack of development but still feel able to give JFH their expert advice

Why? - we are all football experts (at least in our own minds) because it's what we do for entertainment - but far fewer of us profess to be stadium developers or footballing business experts.
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« Reply #20845 on: March 02, 2018, 09:03:33 am »

Why? - we are all football experts (at least in our own minds) because it's what we do for entertainment - but far fewer of us profess to be stadium developers or footballing business experts.
In the absence of anyone fitting that bill at the club, Im happy to fill the gap and offer my services for free.
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« Reply #20846 on: March 02, 2018, 09:18:54 am »

Something that is also completely missed is the fact that a new stand won't increase attendances on its own. Having a bank of terracing behind the goal would not suddenly see another 3k fans turn up. The only way attendances will increase is if we were to be fighting for something higher up the league.
 
There are examples of new grounds increasing attendances, even MK's attendances went up when they moved into stadium MK, they have been on a downward spiral since the team has been ****. Ours pretty much doubled when we moved to Sixfields. So really for Beds to be accurate in claiming increased attendances, he should be arguing for a whole new ground.
Sixfields is in a great location and justs needs some sustainable redevelopment to make it a more attractive  professional ground to visit for everyone.
  There was nearly a full house, 7100 at the last home game despite bad weather and both teams being in poor form.. If this same game were to be played in more professional ground in better weather when both teams mid table with an eye on the playoffs, properly advertised its not hard to imagine 9 or 10,000 gate plus
 with greater match day revenues from extra food and beverage sales and from proper corperate facilities.

Doing nothing as per usual is killing our club.
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« Reply #20847 on: March 02, 2018, 09:39:22 am »

Sixfields is in a great location and justs needs some sustainable redevelopment to make it a more attractive  professional ground to visit for everyone.
  There was nearly a full house, 7100 at the last home game despite bad weather and both teams being in poor form.. If this same game were to be played in more professional ground in better weather when both teams mid table with an eye on the playoffs, properly advertised its not hard to imagine 9 or 10,000 gate plus
 with greater match day revenues from extra food and beverage sales and from proper corperate facilities.

Doing nothing as per usual is killing our club.


I've highlighted the bit that would increase attendances just in case you're confused.
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« Reply #20848 on: March 02, 2018, 09:54:13 am »

In the absence of anyone fitting that bill at the club, Im happy to fill the gap and offer my services for free.
Please god no. To repeat I would be equally critical of a neurologist intending to perform brain surgery on himself!
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« Reply #20849 on: March 02, 2018, 10:01:47 am »

I've highlighted the bit that would increase attendances just in case you're confused.
Something quite important you've over looked, just another 500 would be admitted as we are😉
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« Reply #20850 on: March 02, 2018, 10:06:16 am »

Around the 900 mark but I wouldn't expect you to let facts get in the way.
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« Reply #20851 on: March 02, 2018, 10:51:06 am »

Around the 900 mark but I wouldn't expect you to let facts get in the way.
incorrect, 7700 capacity  tops so lets agree on only 600 more able to attend higher profile games hence why we're unable to do sales and promotions other than a little token gesturing.
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« Reply #20852 on: March 02, 2018, 11:07:38 am »

Pre East stand 'development' 7653. An extra 200 seats added does not equal 7700.

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« Reply #20853 on: March 02, 2018, 12:02:39 pm »

V man utd every seat in the house sold, no segregation netting required or any dead seats.. 7779. Record crowd.
Allowing for seat netting thats as good as it possibly can get.
  Our highest gate prior the mess was never as much as 7653?
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« Reply #20854 on: March 02, 2018, 20:08:04 pm »

incorrect, 7700 capacity  tops so lets agree on only 600 more able to attend higher profile games hence why we're unable to do sales and promotions other than a little token gesturing.
You’ll like this Beds, an article written in 2017 in the Telegraph detailing what has happened to every club who has moved ground since 1988. There are over 30 examples including us. People can make up their own minds regarding how likely redevelopment is to bring success and/or move the club forward as you claim. Bare in mind it is this kind of information you would need to address to secure any finance and attract investors. Given that you are so critical and vocal regarding the current owners on this subject with statements like “killing the club” I think it reasonable that you at least make a decent case for identifying how they would raise the capital? So far virtually all your posts are based on opinion, which is fine but doesn’t solve the major flaw with your proposals. I have tried to get you to engage in this by asking you to address 1 specific (and in fairness most extreme) example, which up till now you have declined to fully do. May I suggest you have a try at using facts and see how you get on? Also in fairness to you it’s not cut and dried and there are varying results in here, some disastrous, others not so, but this exercise is about the theory behind my argument regarding the difficulty in convincing financial institutions that redevelopment is a sound and attractive opportunity post financial crisis? In conclusion can I also ask how likely you would be to remortgage your house and buy shares in the club based on your findings should the opportunity present itself, because that is what you are probably asking others to do? (And incidentally what the council should have asked the Cardozas to do in terms of security)?
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/football/0/happens-next-team-moves-stadium-every-new-ground-since-1988/new-york-stadium/
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« Reply #20855 on: March 02, 2018, 23:21:25 pm »

You’ll like this Beds, an article written in 2017 in the Telegraph detailing what has happened to every club who has moved ground since 1988. There are over 30 examples including us. People can make up their own minds regarding how likely redevelopment is to bring success and/or move the club forward as you claim. Bare in mind it is this kind of information you would need to address to secure any finance and attract investors. Given that you are so critical and vocal regarding the current owners on this subject with statements like “killing the club” I think it reasonable that you at least make a decent case for identifying how they would raise the capital? So far virtually all your posts are based on opinion, which is fine but doesn’t solve the major flaw with your proposals. I have tried to get you to engage in this by asking you to address 1 specific (and in fairness most extreme) example, which up till now you have declined to fully do. May I suggest you have a try at using facts and see how you get on? Also in fairness to you it’s not cut and dried and there are varying results in here, some disastrous, others not so, but this exercise is about the theory behind my argument regarding the difficulty in convincing financial institutions that redevelopment is a sound and attractive opportunity post financial crisis? In conclusion can I also ask how likely you would be to remortgage your house and buy shares in the club based on your findings should the opportunity present itself, because that is what you are probably asking others to do? (And incidentally what the council should have asked the Cardozas to do in terms of security)?
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/football/0/happens-next-team-moves-stadium-every-new-ground-since-1988/new-york-stadium/
Firstly we dont need another new ground but greatly improve what we have as its unfit for purpose.
I have long come to the opinion Thomas and co wont be putting in a single penny but hope to make lots of money from selling the land they so badly need the council to give them in order to drop a few crumbs in the clubs coffers as the run to the hills...Yes worst case scenario but until he makes it clear as to why they are actully  here I reserve the right to assume the worse.
Again to have a modicum of sustainable investment in building up the ground to an acceptable state to increase the clubs revenues  can be acheivable in a number of ways which can be by using future incomes, naming rights, many different forms of sponsorship and the old getting investors on board that will actually invest, be they british chinese or any other place but willing investment parties.
All clubs need to build its infrastructure  to allow them to maximise gate and match day food and beverage takings as well as corperate boxes and general match day sponsorship revenues.
Even you have to agree Northampton town in its current state is a long way from what you would realistically call its maximum potential,  I would say we are currently only running at a third of what we could be due to being held back over the past 14 years and its this reason our club is struggling  to compete and stay in league 1 as we just aren't equipped to survive.

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« Reply #20856 on: March 03, 2018, 01:15:45 am »

Firstly we dont need another new ground but greatly improve what we have as its unfit for purpose.
I have long come to the opinion Thomas and co wont be putting in a single penny but hope to make lots of money from selling the land they so badly need the council to give them in order to drop a few crumbs in the clubs coffers as the run to the hills...Yes worst case scenario but until he makes it clear as to why they are actully  here I reserve the right to assume the worse.
Again to have a modicum of sustainable investment in building up the ground to an acceptable state to increase the clubs revenues  can be acheivable in a number of ways which can be by using future incomes, naming rights, many different forms of sponsorship and the old getting investors on board that will actually invest, be they british chinese or any other place but willing investment parties.
All clubs need to build its infrastructure  to allow them to maximise gate and match day food and beverage takings as well as corperate boxes and general match day sponsorship revenues.
Even you have to agree Northampton town in its current state is a long way from what you would realistically call its maximum potential,  I would say we are currently only running at a third of what we could be due to being held back over the past 14 years and its this reason our club is struggling  to compete and stay in league 1 as we just aren't equipped to survive.


Sorry Beds, this debate is proving to be a waste of time. Whilst rhetoric and opinion might fulfill its purpose for you on here, and nothing wrong with that by the way, it is just nonsense. Whether you build a stand or build a stadium it all requires finance and you haven’t come up with a single justification for it other than your opinion that it’s the right thing to do? The risk, as the list shows is that like Chester and Darlington you go out of business if you get it wrong? Despite this you continue on and on like a child in a toy shop with no thought, appreciation or care with regards to affordability. The issue I have with all this is that whatever you think of his motives, KT rescued the club from oblivion. Despite this you continually criticise the guy and use phrases like “killing the club”. Again as a supporter nothing really wrong with that, except every time you are given an honest question you haven’t even got the decency to justify your accusations against KT, continually evading giving a straight answer and continue on and on with the same delusional rehtoric like some sort of demented buffoon. The only thing you have proven is that your opinion on this subject is, in my opinion, baseless, irrelevant and childlike, sorry.
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« Reply #20857 on: March 03, 2018, 07:50:00 am »

Sorry Beds, this debate is proving to be a waste of time. Whilst rhetoric and opinion might fulfill its purpose for you on here, and nothing wrong with that by the way, it is just nonsense. Whether you build a stand or build a stadium it all requires finance and you haven’t come up with a single justification for it other than your opinion that it’s the right thing to do? The risk, as the list shows is that like Chester and Darlington you go out of business if you get it wrong? Despite this you continue on and on like a child in a toy shop with no thought, appreciation or care with regards to affordability. The issue I have with all this is that whatever you think of his motives, KT rescued the club from oblivion. Despite this you continually criticise the guy and use phrases like “killing the club”. Again as a supporter nothing really wrong with that, except every time you are given an honest question you haven’t even got the decency to justify your accusations against KT, continually evading giving a straight answer and continue on and on with the same delusional rehtoric like some sort of demented buffoon. The only thing you have proven is that your opinion on this subject is, in my opinion, baseless, irrelevant and childlike, sorry.

And it's taken you 1053 pages to come to that conclusion  Grin
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« Reply #20858 on: March 03, 2018, 07:50:16 am »

Sorry Beds, this debate is proving to be a waste of time. Whilst rhetoric and opinion might fulfill its purpose for you on here, and nothing wrong with that by the way, it is just nonsense. Whether you build a stand or build a stadium it all requires finance and you haven’t come up with a single justification for it other than your opinion that it’s the right thing to do? The risk, as the list shows is that like Chester and Darlington you go out of business if you get it wrong? Despite this you continue on and on like a child in a toy shop with no thought, appreciation or care with regards to affordability. The issue I have with all this is that whatever you think of his motives, KT rescued the club from oblivion. Despite this you continually criticise the guy and use phrases like “killing the club”. Again as a supporter nothing really wrong with that, except every time you are given an honest question you haven’t even got the decency to justify your accusations against KT, continually evading giving a straight answer and continue on and on with the same delusional rehtoric like some sort of demented buffoon. The only thing you have proven is that your opinion on this subject is, in my opinion, baseless, irrelevant and childlike, sorry.
Apology accepted, Ive been called far worse on this emotive subject by both those who had vast unconditional loyalty  for David/ Tony Cardoza who also saved us from this awful  'oblivion' fate by paying a little bit of tax and a few weeks back pay to take control,  and now by those like you who show great affection and loyalty to the latest incombents to the point you could actully be one of them or a family member which if the case is honourable imo.
And heres the but.. I am a Northamptonian who wants the very best for my club NTFC but all I see is people making a case for our ambition to be that of a struggling 4th division  club that spends the odd season being out classed in league 1.
For me thats just not enough I want us to be a challenging league 1 club with the odd season in the championship which is why we need better infrastructure to attract better players,  more supporters and sponsors etc to achieve it.
Anyone who makes the claim to build a winning team with excellent individual players at Sixfields in its current poor state must also realise we  will 100% lose those players after several months for a fraction of their worth to teams we should be competing against, and the merry go round, goes around again.
Melbourne, I stand by my previous  post as being the only viable  way forward for this club based on the level of investment we can expect from this latest lot which after 2.5 years of waiting NBC to again hand over unconditional  riches to a passing consortium, I hope they are kept waiting until we have as a club have  some assurance that what we get is more than a few crumbs.
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« Reply #20859 on: March 03, 2018, 08:38:38 am »

Am I the only one that has heard its not going to happen , too much legal crap to sift through to make it viable
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