Redevelopment Closer Than Ever?

[guest1269]

I have watched the trust from a distance since it's inception and other than so called life membership have never really been involved although 4 close friends did have prominent roles in the early day.

I do believe over the years there have been many fantastic dedicated individuals who have selflessly given a lot to both the trust and the club - however unless the trust is unique in its members and their human nature, then I can guarantee over the years some individuals have played politics and the internal power games (it is the reason my friends eventually gave up).
 Unfortunately when this can be seen from the outside it does put good potential active members off - once a body created to represent the masses is perceived to be more self serving than actually serving it's wider members has its attractiveness massively diminished.
Certain statements in the past from the trust about them being involved in discussions with the chairmen, or with the council, or being privy to future plans -  but were unable to reveal details because of the sensitivities had the effect of irritating many supporters, particularly as we all now know most of these discussions were simply smoke and mirrors (although not I suspect initiated by the trust).

Putting these points aside I think the real problem is, neither DC or now KT are particularly interested in embracing a trust concept - DC was smart enough to pay lip service to the concept without revealing anything, whereas KT, to me, makes it fairly clear he is not that interested - at the end of the day rightly or wrongly that is their prerogative.

Sadly I see a trust will always have a place in a crisis situation but in that wider pro-active area, only if the club owner sees an advantage and trust itself truly has the capability to operate at board level.

[Terryfenwickatemyhamster]

Speaking as a now former member of the Trust board, I think that any potential valid criticism of the Trust has always been buried deep within the majority of the total nonsense that is spouted about it.

Writing things such as 'they only appointed middle aged white men' is just complete bulls***. For as long as I can remember, anyone who has wanted to stand for the board has been elected unopposed or co-opted onto the board. I wouldn't dream of making stuff up like that to try and score a point, but it seems par for the course on this forum nowadays.

So you have condemned one ridiculous generalisation by issuing another 😀😀

[Deepcut Cobbler]

Do you mean purchasing the club or the day to day running or both?

My understanding of fan ownership is owning the club, not managing it on behalf of someone else?

[BedsCobb]

I just believe we as a group of supporters are the guilty party here, we have a supporters trust that is remote from the Northampton public and go about their buisness in a cloak of secrecy and we the clubs 5000 loyal fans who are the most important factor of all,  just leave everything in the hands of outside speculators who have no designs on doing anything to improve the infrastructure and lets be honest, why the hell should they? Its not why they're here and despite all the excuses for delays and lack of getting in real investment, it wont happen anytime soon.
But if they really give stuff about our clubs predicament they will listen to ideas if they its demanded of them on mass.
I dont expect Thomas to put a single penny or dime of his /their own money into our club, why should they, but if ideas are put forward that give hope to our club they shouldn't  block it after being guilty of mothballing the club these past 3 years culminated with our embarrassing return to the basement.
Sometime ago I came up with an idea that if we sold the naming rights to the ground for 10 years to a major betting co or national company for 20 years in return for a complete fit out of the east stand shell, but this idea was shot down in flames as its not allowed as its council owned and cursed by gypsies only for it happen a month later but just to make up the shortfall in income due to all the January purchases.
So  lets hope those scratching their heads in the club are looking for the next big idea and  really are influenced by crazy delusionals on here, so I will put another great idea out there, which is this, get a hotel chain to build a 60 or so bed hotel on our recently acquired land, ground floor to include large match day 7 day supporters bar/ function/ conferencing  room.  2nd floor with resturant bars and access to 15 corperate boxes that double up into hotel rooms as seen at several other stadium. 3rd/4th bedrooms.
Ok here is the deal breaker, all matchday revenues and use of corperate boxes are the football clubs. Use of the large ground floor bars/ functioning are the football clubs.
The hotel have exclusive use of 1st floor resturant and hotel bedrooms.
They get to build a hotel on free land with just buisness rates to pay and we get a finished east stand a 7 day revenues pouring in.
A bonus would be Visitor's to Franklin gardens would finally have a nearby hotel to stay at.🤣

[Deepcut Cobbler]

I just believe we as a group of supporters are the guilty party here, we have a supporters trust that is remote from the Northampton public and go about their buisness in a cloak of secrecy and we the clubs 5000 loyal fans who are the most important factor of all,  just leave everything in the hands of outside speculators who have no designs on doing anything to improve the infrastructure and lets be honest, why the hell should they? Its not why they're here and despite all the excuses for delays and lack of getting in real investment, it wont happen anytime soon.
But if they really give stuff about our clubs predicament they will listen to ideas if they its demanded of them on mass.
I dont expect Thomas to put a single penny or dime of his /their own money into our club, why should they, but if ideas are put forward that give hope to our club they shouldn't  block it after being guilty of mothballing the club these past 3 years culminated with our embarrassing return to the basement.
Sometime ago I came up with an idea that if we sold the naming rights to the ground for 10 years to a major betting co or national company for 20 years in return for a complete fit out of the east stand shell, but this idea was shot down in flames as its not allowed as its council owned and cursed by gypsies only for it happen a month later but just to make up the shortfall in income due to all the January purchases.
So  lets hope those scratching their heads in the club are looking for the next big idea and  really are influenced by crazy delusionals on here, so I will put another great idea out there, which is this, get a hotel chain to build a 60 or so bed hotel on our recently acquired land, ground floor to include large match day 7 day supporters bar/ function/ conferencing  room.  2nd floor with resturant bars and access to 15 corperate boxes that double up into hotel rooms as seen at several other stadium. 3rd/4th bedrooms.
Ok here is the deal breaker, all matchday revenues and use of corperate boxes are the football clubs. Use of the large ground floor bars/ functioning are the football clubs.
The hotel have exclusive use of 1st floor resturant and hotel bedrooms.
They get to build a hotel on free land with just buisness rates to pay and we get a finished east stand a 7 day revenues pouring in.
A bonus would be Visitor's to Franklin gardens would finally have a nearby hotel to stay at.

You've seen the plans haven't you?

[everbrite]

Tcobb exactly why do you think outside investors have benefitted NTFC since DC & KT took over, what did they achieve different to the past 100 years?

TCobb don’t let them grind you down. It’s all pipedream stuff and self important comments without any substance. Keep yr pecker up!

[tcobb]

I'm happy Evers 
They do make me chuckle with their dream that a few thousand fans donating a few quid a year, can run a multi million pound Football Club. Plus they think they can do it better than any multi millionaire who has a few quid spare.
I wonder in their homes if they are looking out of their claret tinted windows at fluffy white clouds all day. 

[everbrite]

Do you mean purchasing the club or the day to day running or both?

Are going tomorrow for the friendly v Barnet?

[everbrite]

Remind me Tcobb what league are Wycombe in? How long under Trust ownership did it take them to achieve promotion?

I know 1000% that the Trust would have done a much better job at growing and protecting the future of NTFC.

Are going tomorrow for the friendly v Barnet?

[Terryfenwickatemyhamster]

I have never had an issue with a club run by the supporters, or even a Trust. But there is nowhere near the type of experience the club would need within the current Trust.

Having said that. If it is about the re-structure of the board room along with appointing key personnel, then fair play.

However.. Now back to reality. Like it or not, or should I say, like him or not... One thing KT has done is increase the stock of the club over recent months. I honestly believe it can now almost entirely shake off the I wouldn't touch it with a barge pole status, to a potential promising investment.

Without the leases being sorted, it was entirely appropriate to ignore all the half witted pie in the sky trash that was doing the rounds from a few barrack room lawyers on here. Where as now, we will need to see some activity soon. Whether that be a new owner, or some building occurring. Either will do nice.

[guest1269]

I have never had an issue with a club run by the supporters, or even a Trust. But there is nowhere near the type of experience the club would need within the current Trust.

Yep, I think that is pretty much what I said earlier - unfortunately, & I'm really not trying to be disrespectful to anyone but unbridled love of the club and putting a suit on to sit in the directors box does not qualify an individual to run a professional football club.

At the same time club owners with the interest of the club at heart should certainly be listening to those dedicated and passionate supporters.

[meccanostand]

Yep, I think that is pretty much what I said earlier - unfortunately, & I'm really not trying to be disrespectful to anyone but unbridled love of the club and putting a suit on to sit in the directors box does not qualify an individual to run a professional football club.

At the same time club owners with the interest of the club at heart should certainly be listening to those dedicated and passionate supporters.

If David Cardoza can run a club anybody can. Seriously though this idea that fan ownership means clipping on a tie and moving to the directors box is misguided.

Do you think Kelvin spends all his waking hours managing the Cobblers? Course not. He hires a chief exec and a manager and staff in the same way a member owned club would.

The club could tick over with Premier League solidarity payments season tickets and commercial revenue as Wycombe have shown. The need for an illusory paternalistic millionaire for a club to function is again, wide of the mark.

Fan ownership also means you unlock the expertise in the fan base, some of whom are involved with far larger companies than Kelvin with all due respect.

Remember the town planners etc trying to help Cardoza with the redevelopment? We'd not be in the position we are today if their expertise was actually utilised.

[BedsCobb]

If David Cardoza can run a club anybody can. Seriously though this idea that fan ownership means clipping on a tie and moving to the directors box is misguided.

Do you think Kelvin spends all his waking hours managing the Cobblers? Course not. He hires a chief exec and a manager and staff in the same way a member owned club would.

The club could tick over with Premier League solidarity payments season tickets and commercial revenue as Wycombe have shown. The need for an illusory paternalistic millionaire for a club to function is again, wide of the mark.

Fan ownership also means you unlock the expertise in the fan base, some of whom are involved with far larger companies than Kelvin with all due respect.

Remember the town planners etc trying to help Cardoza with the redevelopment? We'd not be in the position we are today if their expertise was actually utilised.

Also if you had more open and forward thinking supporters led inititive instead of for example relying on a london based profiteering set up, you would encourage more of the town and county folk to get involved in what would be an exciting new era.
Even supporter led clubs can invite inward investment, so doesn't mean we exisist in a hand to mouth existence as we do now.

[meccanostand]

Also if you had more open and forward thinking supporters led inititive instead of for example relying on a london based profiteering set up, you would encourage more of the town and county folk to get involved in what would be an exciting new era.
Even supporter led clubs can invite inward investment, so doesn't mean we exisist in a hand to mouth existence as we do now.

Yup precisely. I'd hope the Trust have explored something along the lines of a 51% shareholding with local investors or a 25% block share for the fans which would improve on the setup successful at Swansea.

[guest1269]

If David Cardoza can run a club anybody can. Seriously though this idea that fan ownership means clipping on a tie and moving to the directors box is misguided.

Do you think Kelvin spends all his waking hours managing the Cobblers? Course not. He hires a chief exec and a manager and staff in the same way a member owned club would.

The club could tick over with Premier League solidarity payments season tickets and commercial revenue as Wycombe have shown. The need for an illusory paternalistic millionaire for a club to function is again, wide of the mark.

Fan ownership also means you unlock the expertise in the fan base, some of whom are involved with far larger companies than Kelvin with all due respect.

Remember the town planners etc trying to help Cardoza with the redevelopment? We'd not be in the position we are today if their expertise was actually utilised.

That's a fair point and as I said I am not trying to insult the ability of any trust officials - of course the owner (be they a single rich guy or a fans consortium) would need to hire appropriate professional staff to run the club - but that in itself is a bit chicken and egg as you need a certain amount of business savvy to even employ the right people and from experience sometime the less experienced (who undoubtedly are very dedicated) let emotional rather than pragmatic business sense dictate their decisions.
I would be 100% supportive if a viable and real partnership between a fan based investment and a private investor could be fashioned  - but for me just the fan based solution is unlikely and just the private investor option would repeat the current cycle of mediocrity.

[meccanostand]

That's a fair point and as I said I am not trying to insult the ability of any trust officials - of course the owner (be they a single rich guy or a fans consortium) would need to hire appropriate professional staff to run the club - but that in itself is a bit chicken and egg as you need a certain amount of business savvy to even employ the right people and from experience sometime the less experienced (who undoubtedly are very dedicated) let emotional rather than pragmatic business sense dictate their decisions.
I would be 100% supportive if a viable and real partnership between a fan based investment and a private investor could be fashioned  - but for me just the fan based solution is unlikely and just the private investor option would repeat the current cycle of mediocrity.

Think it's important to note that a member owned club would be run according to its members not the Trust. The setup would have to be ultra professional.

The Trust can play an important role in any transition and it would need to go public to attract investment. Who knows who's out there willing to get involved in such a partnership?

[Deepcut Cobbler]

Yup precisely. I'd hope the Trust have explored something along the lines of a 51% shareholding with local investors or a 25% block share for the fans which would improve on the setup successful at Swansea.

You still don't understand the 51% share scheme do you?
Or have you forgotten since it was last explained to you 6 weeks ago?

[FezNTFC]

I have never had an issue with a club run by the supporters, or even a Trust. But there is nowhere near the type of experience the club would need within the current Trust.

Having said that. If it is about the re-structure of the board room along with appointing key personnel, then fair play.

It would be the latter I think, that's how it worked at Wycombe from my understanding.

[guest1269]

Think it's important to note that a member owned club would be run according to its members not the Trust. The setup would have to be ultra professional.

The Trust can play an important role in any transition and it would need to go public to attract investment. Who knows who's out there willing to get involved in such a partnership?

Not an argument - but this is where I see problems - anything run according to it's members (and assuming those run into high numbers) has to have appointed representation as a conduit for that opinion and I'm afraid that is where the personal power politics tends to interfere with the efficiency but more importantly the true representation of the members. This is also the point where good interactive relationship with and private partner starts to suffer (I still am far from convinced the finances can work purely on a fan based ownership).

[meccanostand]

Not an argument - but this is where I see problems - anything run according to it's members (and assuming those run into high numbers) has to have appointed representation as a conduit for that opinion and I'm afraid that is where the personal power politics tends to interfere with the efficiency but more importantly the true representation of the members. This is also the point where good interactive relationship with and private partner starts to suffer (I still am far from convinced the finances can work purely on a fan based ownership).

That'd be a tiny price to pay to avoid another McRitchie and Cardoza. Also not insurmountable.