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Redevelopment Closer Than Ever?

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BedsCobb
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« Reply #22740 on: August 26, 2018, 13:17:41 pm »

[quote author=cobblerwatch link=topic=5547.msg367357#msg367357

What I object to is firstly the singling out of KT as the complete villain of the piece along with fans that don’t join in the persistent (but without substance) vitriol churned out by certain individuals


[/quote] Thomas was very quick in getting a large section of our more trusting fans on side with initial promises of 'finishing' the east stand and having £4m on the hip to pay for it.. little stuff like cutting an extra door in the bogs and outsourcing to the club shop to the nike sweatshop brand, had them eating out of his hand.
He also treated them to his regular meet KT and his overhead projection evenings, which they lapped up with much clapping and cheering, but only now he started to avoid mentioning investment and only the briefest mention of 'finishing' off the east stand but now starting to play down our great need for any redevelopment and blaming our borough council for the inactivity!
He kept our trust, now a mere shadow of what it was set up to be are now not even in the loop and kept at great arms length and have sadly became persona non grata at their own football club.
So to sum things up not anything can be construed as being vitriol as thats suggests malice, no malice here, its just people asking questions, being rightfully critical of having not seen any plans and the long 3 years of inactivity added to the previous 12 wasted years is now critically damaging our clubs future hopes.

There could be a case that Thomas genuinely regarded  us as a little back water club from a back water town that didn't need growth and our fans that he came into contact with did little in the way to correct his wayward thinking?
He has been very aware of all the criticism on here from his  early days, so has had 3 years to put his ideas and plans out there but chose not to..
I dont see how you can still feel sorry for the guy, he has had plenty of guidance from those very people (certain individuals) you speak of, he would do well to listen to.  😂
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« Reply #22741 on: August 26, 2018, 15:21:58 pm »

Are there broken windows, where are these?
As GPC has said West Stand about 3 panes shattered, been like it for about a year, under promise and over deliver ehh KT.
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« Reply #22742 on: August 26, 2018, 20:23:42 pm »

CW my problem with KT is that he rode in to town and hoodwinked the council into writing of the £10m loan with the very very clear promise of injecting £4m into the club

Now I don't know if time scales were nailed down but KT offered up the £4m and clearly said he would get the East finished, now I and many others were expecting that to start almost immediately, there was no talk of sorting out leases etc. At that stage he didn't have said leases on the other land as this was on NDCL, with a gentleman's understanding that NBC would acquire them. So all this business with leases etc is just one big smokescreen.

KT gained control of the club simply because he said he had £4m whilst other parties including David Jackson & other ex board members and also the Trust, did not have or more importantly promise to spend £4m. How I wish they too had bull s***ted that they had £10m and gained control

In my eyes KT basically 'stole' the club from underneath genuine Northampton people who wanted to save the club and it's assets.

There is no area of the club that I can see KT has vastly improved or invested in, again bearing in mind he took over from DC who had just about run it into the ground the last 5 years. Yes he has made minor changes and improvements but they are just that.. a minor improvement, the ticket booths being a prime example.

Once the other acres of land get sorted that asset will not benefit NTFC one single bit.

For some reason all of the above doesn't bother you CW or lots of others, you all seem happy to be back in League 2 with a crap 3.5 sided stadium and a chairman who lives abroad and has said the club doesn't need developing and I haven't got time to do any more


 
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« Reply #22743 on: August 26, 2018, 20:31:58 pm »

The council seemed to wait until NTFC was at it's lowest before they agreed to build a stadium. If it had been done years before at Brackmills it would have been at least 12000 but decide to do when we had had no success and crowds are 2500 - 3000

There was no confidence or ambition in NTFC being a successful club so everything was done to make it as basic and a communal as possible.

Little has changed today with either the board, the fans or the council. Everyone blaming each other. Anyone who calls for change and ambition is ridiculed and every excuse under the season is given on why we should be grateful we are where we are.

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« Reply #22744 on: August 26, 2018, 21:09:49 pm »

The council seemed to wait until NTFC was at it's lowest before they agreed to build a stadium. If it had been done years before at Brackmills it would have been at least 12000 but decide to do when we had had no success and crowds are 2500 - 3000
Do you seriously think that anybody would have been happy, with a stadium at Brackmills? In the @rse end of nowhere? On a f***ing industrial estate, outside of town. I dont think so.



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« Reply #22745 on: August 26, 2018, 21:13:04 pm »

Do you seriously think that anybody would have been happy, with a stadium at Brackmills? In the @rse end of nowhere? On a **** industrial estate, outside of town. I dont think so.

The good folk at Hardingstone certainly weren't happy with it.
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« Reply #22746 on: August 26, 2018, 23:45:40 pm »

This thread is nonsense though in the main isn’t it? Everyone wants to see the club evolve into something better. Everyone wants the dump that is Sixfields redeveloped. Everyone wants a club to be proud of. As far as I can see the entire forum is in total agreement on this? Yet there are literally thousands of pages of argument? Some on here talk about a need to “invest” when in reality what they are asking for is a “gift”. No one in their right mind would pump millions into this club (or any other at this level) on the basis of investment. The lower levels of the football league is littered almost without exception with individuals who have done their wad without any return. I would question the ability of anyone who entered into a significant financial commitment with any club at our level on the basis of investment. Some on here can enter into the world of fantasy by putting forward endless arguments and opinion regarding the attractiveness of this venture but it won’t alter the fact that it would almost certainly be financial suicide to do so? I am afraid ownership of a football club has to be on the basis of love. Further to this if you haven’t got the financial clout to make a difference then love alone won’t be enough to see the progression we need. I don’t really know what KT is doing here, but until an individual turns up with the qualities and attributes needed we will envariably end up with more of the same with all the instability that brings.
Here’s another couple of examples of the last 2 owners of a football club struggling to see a return on their “investment”. https://www.theguardian.com/football/2016/dec/22/notts-county-takeover-alan-hardy-ray-trew
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« Reply #22747 on: August 27, 2018, 01:06:22 am »

"Exiled, I think your memory is selective about the County Ground.  It was an awful dump and had only 3 sides.  Remember the Meccano Stand?  Much loved my ........  The final years at the CG were desperate with gates averaging around 2,000 and were dropping yera after year to the point where we were more likely than not to disappear as an EFL club."

Nothing selective Vintage, my memory serves me well, I was talking about the CG specifically before the Popplewell Report in the early eighties. No Meccano stand and when the seats were in use.
At that time the CG although 3 sided, in comparison to other grounds wasn't so bad. Many grounds were banks of terracing even some grass or cinder banks, do remember Gresty road at that time, or Springfield Park!

The CG as others mention was allowed to fall apart, in fact it wasn't so expensive to fix the issues with the main stand but Derek Banks decided to whip off the roof to try and push the matter with Brackmills.

My point is that by today's standard, Sixfields hinders the clubs progression just as much as the County Ground back in 1981.

We've gone nowhere.

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« Reply #22748 on: August 27, 2018, 06:23:52 am »

Council have been very clear in the order of things 1. Leases. 2 Finish the stand 3. Talk about further development.

There will be no enabling deal that Cardoza managed to wangle on the wider land in order to complete the East.

So in theory we are back to the £4million and how Bower will finance the East Stand. Seems v little in it for him in chucking private money at it (unless there is a payoff down the line on wider land but that doesn't seem to be in the case). Maybe they could secure a straight loan?

The owners could perhaps unload the whole project off to someone with serious money but we have never been able to attract those sort of fish (see 5USPORTS).

It would need serious money to get us to the promised land of the Championship, so if Bower was to sell it would ideally need to be either a party with significant funds or a local party with genuine care for the club who will run it sustainably and for the community. I.E not some chancers.

In the meantime that leaves us where we have been for donkey's years, as a league 2 club. I've no doubt that if the East Stand redevelopment was done with the requisite care (a few boxes, a proper suppporters' bar) it could have been completed years ago via a mixture of mini-bond fan funding, private donations, sponsorship and grants. (see Stevenage). At Accrington their chairman is personally overseeing every detail of their new stand (on site every day) it will be completed without fuss.

Outsiders have managed to make a simple construction job at Sixfields into a complete palaver.

We have some interesting months ahead of us. IMO the Trust need to be making a play for ownership of the club, ideally in a split deal with local money. Otherwise there is the fear of the club being sold to a party far worse than Bower and Thomas (who have done a pretty good job of dragging us into the 21st century in a commercial sense). If bids are coming in for the club then Thomas should have a fan-ownership bid to consider with all the rest at least.





 
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« Reply #22749 on: August 27, 2018, 07:11:00 am »

I've no doubt that if the East Stand redevelopment was done with the requisite care (a few boxes, a proper suppporters' bar) it could have been completed years ago via a mixture of mini-bond fan funding, private donations, sponsorship and grants. (see Stevenage). At Accrington their chairman is personally overseeing every detail of their new stand (on site every day) it will be completed without fuss.


Surely as you say later this is an area the trust need to step up to the task with collaboration with KT - it's not full fan ownership (which frankly I feel is unlikely) but it's a measure of what could be done by a fan's collective - so here's my challenge to Bed's and Random, join or rejoin the trust in an active capacity. Prepare an actual draft business plan, set a simple legal framework for funding - meet KT with a viable business plan with names individuals who will practically and financially support the venture.
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meccanostand
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« Reply #22750 on: August 27, 2018, 07:39:02 am »

Surely as you say later this is an area the trust need to step up to the task with collaboration with KT - it's not full fan ownership (which frankly I feel is unlikely) but it's a measure of what could be done by a fan's collective - so here's my challenge to Bed's and Random, join or rejoin the trust in an active capacity. Prepare an actual draft business plan, set a simple legal framework for funding - meet KT with a viable business plan with names individuals who will practically and financially support the venture.

Some fair points there. The Trust are capable of doing so without Beds and Random having to drive it but it seems their energy would be useful. Interesting idea though about the fans joining a partnership along with KT and Bower.

Bit of a weird time, the team is doing ok on the pitch, the club seems fairly stable albeit having to cut costs after the failed 5USports involvement and relegation. Just feels a bit 'temporary' though. Concerned over a sudden sale announcement like what happened with 5USports and then whose hands he club falls into. As I said before, Thomas' and Bower's next moves will define their legacy.
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« Reply #22751 on: August 27, 2018, 08:05:36 am »

I think even the most ardent supporter of the present ownership will accept that a satisfactory redevelopment of Sixfields taking place under their ownership or even being started looks to be very remote. It is widely believed that the club is on the market and so a sale could be announced at any time.  That supporters will have no say about the identity of the new owners is a major issue and any reliance on the EFL protecting supporters’ interests is fatuous.  Ask the supporters of Blackpool, Charlton & Coventry what the EFL has done for them.

Our concern has to be that the club is sold on to opportunistic property developers disguised as football supporters.  If KT/DB are also trying to sell CDNL to potential club buyers we have to be at risk again.  The irony of the situation is that the shambles that is the East Stand may be an obstacle to anyone considering the acquisition. The danger is that realising this our owners eventually act to spend the bare minimum necessary to put the premises in a sellable condition and disappear into the sunset.  We will be left with no prospect of having a stadium befitting a town the size of Northampton and its extensive catchment area.  History has a nasty habit of repeating itself.

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« Reply #22752 on: August 27, 2018, 08:26:03 am »

I think even the most ardent supporter of the present ownership will accept that a satisfactory redevelopment of Sixfields taking place under their ownership or even being started looks to be very remote. It is widely believed that the club is on the market and so a sale could be announced at any time.  That supporters will have no say about the identity of the new owners is a major issue and any reliance on the EFL protecting supporters’ interests is fatuous.  Ask the supporters of Blackpool, Charlton & Coventry what the EFL has done for them.

Our concern has to be that the club is sold on to opportunistic property developers disguised as football supporters.  If KT/DB are also trying to sell CDNL to potential club buyers we have to be at risk again.  The irony of the situation is that the shambles that is the East Stand may be an obstacle to anyone considering the acquisition. The danger is that realising this our owners eventually act to spend the bare minimum necessary to put the premises in a sellable condition and disappear into the sunset.  We will be left with no prospect of having a stadium befitting a town the size of Northampton and its extensive catchment area.  History has a nasty habit of repeating itself.



Well... Perhaps you could write to KT asking him if we as supporters could be involved in the vetting process for any potential owners. Or sit on an interview panel or something. Either that, or just take your meds 😀😀😀
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« Reply #22753 on: August 27, 2018, 08:39:41 am »

Well... Perhaps you could write to KT asking him if we as supporters could be involved in the vetting process for any potential owners. Or sit on an interview panel or something. Either that, or just take your meds 😀😀😀

Ha.

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« Reply #22754 on: August 27, 2018, 08:42:25 am »

Very funny Hamster.  

The underlying point is the wider one of fan ownership and participation which goes well beyond our club.  Meccano has a clear opinion on this and his posting and articles elsewhere are interesting on the subject. KT/DB will look after KT/DB and we will be secondary. Surely, you agree with that?
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« Reply #22755 on: August 27, 2018, 08:43:52 am »

Well... Perhaps you could write to KT asking him if we as supporters could be involved in the vetting process for any potential owners. Or sit on an interview panel or something. Either that, or just take your meds

Maybe the sarcasm not entirely necessary but it illustrates the point we have both said time and time again - with a football club in private ownership there is very little it's fan base can really do to change or indeed influence the next phase of ownership.

.....however I am slightly warming to the concept of a fans collective sorting out the East Stand - 1001 practical issues but it is possible with sound leadership
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« Reply #22756 on: August 27, 2018, 11:16:08 am »

Surely as you say later this is an area the trust need to step up to the task with collaboration with KT - it's not full fan ownership (which frankly I feel is unlikely) but it's a measure of what could be done by a fan's collective - so here's my challenge to Bed's and Random, join or rejoin the trust in an active capacity. Prepare an actual draft business plan, set a simple legal framework for funding - meet KT with a viable business plan with names individuals who will practically and financially support the venture.
why are you so sure KT wants anything to do with the club outside the profit gained from the resale and perhaps cashing in on the land that was fought over?
Nothing he has done or said would suggest he is remotely  willing to get involved with the clubs supporters in a bid to secure investment sponsorship and partnerships in order  to build up its infrastructure and support base.

It would be my guess we are being touted about for multi millions that wont attract many takers.

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« Reply #22757 on: August 27, 2018, 14:43:43 pm »

Ask the supporters of Blackpool, Charlton & Coventry what the EFL has done for them.


League One football, something we'd quite like?  Grin
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« Reply #22758 on: August 27, 2018, 15:22:22 pm »

why are you so sure KT wants anything to do with the club outside the profit gained from the resale and perhaps cashing in on the land that was fought over?
Nothing he has done or said would suggest he is remotely  willing to get involved with the clubs supporters in a bid to secure investment sponsorship and partnerships in order  to build up its infrastructure and support base.

It would be my guess we are being touted about for multi millions that wont attract many takers.



I'm a bit curious - I'm warming to one aspect of your suggestions but now you are saying it won't work with KT - so unless we are sold to this somewhat illusive "football person" we are doomed?
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« Reply #22759 on: August 27, 2018, 16:08:52 pm »

I'm a bit curious - I'm warming to one aspect of your suggestions but now you are saying it won't work with KT - so unless we are sold to this somewhat illusive "football person" we are doomed?
KT has said he has no long term interests in ntfc so we should beleive him and hope he can sell the club to the right people who want to advance the club.
 How refreshing to look forward to new owners that can build up the club in a sustainable manner that fully involves the supporters/ town/ catchment as without a new influx of fans/ sponsors/ investors  we just stand still.
We need expand and grow the club by 50% across all aspects of the club, be it ground capacity, 2 to 3000 more regulars, to include attracting  7000 more visiting fans over a season, sponsorship, corperate , food and drink etc,  our untapped catchment of 300,000 living within 10 miles    of sixfields would make this an easy task.
This would see the club easily able to challenge at the top half of league 1 with championship ambitions..
We just need the right people pushing it.
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