meccanostand
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How about asking all the fans what they want first ?
The whole point of a trust is to democratically represent the supporters. Table some fan ownership options and put them to the supporters, absolutely nothing to lose.
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guest3264
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Perhaps 51% ownership would be the right figure? Talking of which how much are we talking? I would say around 17 million. That should be enough to be able to finance the club and offer some stability. If this was a viable option the last thing you would need is to be under immediate financial pressure from the off. 3000 supporters putting up 3 grand gets you 9 million. 6000 supporters putting up £1500 = the same. If the corporate sector could raise the other 49% that gets you home. That is the reality of what we are talking about. If you feel 17 million is too much or indeed not enough the alter the ratios accordingly. There would be almost insurmountable hurdles to overcome and it would take considerable effort over a protracted period to even stand half a chance of succeeding. The point is that you would need thousands of supporters to invest 4 figure sums to get this idea off the ground. Unless people are prepared to do this then any realistic talk of fan ownership is finished. So the first question should be, is this what we really want? Then by how many and how much would they be prepared to put up? Many on here have claimed the club is a sound investment opportunity that with a bit of effort could attract interest from a huge catchment area? Well now is the opportunity to prove it and even put up their own cash to back their judgment? The fact is that if we are not prepared to try something different then the club will most likely continue to change hands between speculators who have little love for the club, and that puts us in the lap of the gods. So the question remains what are you prepared to do and how many share that vision?
More realistically I believe the best fans could hope for is for say a 10% stake by raising initially £500,000. The other 90% would need to come from individuals, I would prefer nine putting in £500,000 each rather than one individual! I have no inside knowledge just an opinion. The capital would be needed to buy the club and put in Executive boxes to attract business people. The Trust could be the catalyst with a media campaign. Something must happen NOW else we will slide out of the League in the coming years!!!
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everbrite
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I have heard on the qt that he is a Posh fan!
Orient - born in Leyton
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2020 Grand National S/S 3rd Place
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everbrite
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Random, you are very good at picking up on what people say. So, in a reciprocal argument, I offer the following : you noticed an advert? Whoopee ding dong. Well done son. I now expect you to bombard me with "facts". Dont let me down.
Looks like he has done a runner
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2020 Grand National S/S 3rd Place
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guest168
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what do you want Tcobb?
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guest168
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The point I was trying to make is that someone has to lead for the vast majority to follow. I think the first thing to do it to start putting pressure on KT at games to let him know that some fans want progress.
If KT continues to be given an easy ride (at games & in media) then he will just continue mothballing the club and wait to see if an overseas investor thinks we are just outside London so worth millions.
It might also help if the Trust could publish some info on how Wycombe achieved their ownership to at least indicate what is possible. Of those whom seem anti fan ownership are under the impression that you need extra millions to survive, I don't believe this to be the case, especially for us with such potential on our doorstep :ie: we are not competing with a major Premiership club and we also have a long established history plus large catchment area.
One big problem with most fans is they are so focussed on the playing side, take Tcobb for example (and this not a dig) but you posted on another thread that the team was crap, get rid and we need to bring in more players whilst you post very little in actual content regarding the ownership and why the team we have is play so crap. An endless cycle of owners who do nothing in infrastruture but appease most fans with endless supply of mediocre players and managers. We have to move past this and take steps to build a future, Swansea were a great example, people who loved the club, had a plan for all aspects of the club and got to the Prem. They sold out and surprise surprise they get relegated. KT has no interest in doing any of this, he never has and guess what, he took a 13 point league winning side and destroyed any goodwill and feel good factor we had within 12 months.
Look around the leagues and in general the teams that are doing well (above their weight) are those that have passion, belief, community and togetherness at their core. Liverpool are an example, Man U are also a classic example of when they got it wrong to recently getting it wrong. I am not saying it is easy but surely its time to try something else.
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Terryfenwickatemyhamster
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Of those whom seem anti fan ownership are under the impression that you need extra millions to survive
Who’s said that’s? Nobody has said you need millions to “survive”.. I agree with you on focusing supporters attention. Hence why I keep asking the Trust to stop accumulating wealth, and actually spend some of it on asking what supporters want. If on the whole they are happy with KT, your opinion counts for nothing. If they want fan ownership, then let’s push on and go for it. I’m sure what media you are on about either. Radio Northampton has never backed anything. And the joke that is the chron.. Well, we all know how shy the that is. It has to start from asking the questions in an organised way. I’ve said that from day one.
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Another Pedj
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The point I was trying to make is that someone has to lead for the vast majority to follow. I think the first thing to do it to start putting pressure on KT at games to let him know that some fans want progress.
If KT continues to be given an easy ride (at games & in media) then he will just continue mothballing the club and wait to see if an overseas investor thinks we are just outside London so worth millions.
It might also help if the Trust could publish some info on how Wycombe achieved their ownership to at least indicate what is possible. Of those whom seem anti fan ownership are under the impression that you need extra millions to survive, I don't believe this to be the case, especially for us with such potential on our doorstep :ie: we are not competing with a major Premiership club and we also have a long established history plus large catchment area.
One big problem with most fans is they are so focussed on the playing side, take Tcobb for example (and this not a dig) but you posted on another thread that the team was crap, get rid and we need to bring in more players whilst you post very little in actual content regarding the ownership and why the team we have is play so crap. An endless cycle of owners who do nothing in infrastruture but appease most fans with endless supply of mediocre players and managers. We have to move past this and take steps to build a future, Swansea were a great example, people who loved the club, had a plan for all aspects of the club and got to the Prem. They sold out and surprise surprise they get relegated. KT has no interest in doing any of this, he never has and guess what, he took a 13 point league winning side and destroyed any goodwill and feel good factor we had within 12 months.
Look around the leagues and in general the teams that are doing well (above their weight) are those that have passion, belief, community and togetherness at their core. Liverpool are an example, Man U are also a classic example of when they got it wrong to recently getting it wrong. I am not saying it is easy but surely its time to try something else.
Problem is for someone to lead so the others follow, the Leader has to have a plan. Yours is so vague and lacking in detail it is in my eyes incapable of being taken seriously. I can only speak for myself personally. I would only countenance a fans led take over if: 1 They could demonstrate significant funding.I would only even consider deviating from this if I thought we were about to go into Administration. The present owners business plan is they want to sell for the maximum price. They will therefore support the club in the short term, if only for their own ambitions. 2 A clear business plan is put forward. Where is the funding coming from, on what basis? No waffle. A plan that could be presented to a Bank who would buy into the view that would advance NTFC as a viable business., sufficiently enough that they would provide significant funding to cover medium term losses. Say for example relegation from the football league. 3. A clear Management structure. Detailed CVs. Who is responsible for what. I am firmly against management by committee. In my view it rarely if ever works. I accept I am to a degree of asking too much too soon but you are asking us to take a leap of faith. I do not know your and your backers sufficiently well to be able to support this
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guest1269
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Problem is for someone to lead so the others follow, the Leader has to have a plan. Yours is so vague and lacking in detail it is in my eyes incapable of being taken seriously.
I can only speak for myself personally. I would only countenance a fans led take over if:
1 They could demonstrate significant funding.I would only even consider deviating from this if I thought we were about to go into Administration. The present owners business plan is they want to sell for the maximum price. They will therefore support the club in the short term, if only for their own ambitions.
2 A clear business plan is put forward. Where is the funding coming from, on what basis? No waffle. A plan that could be presented to a Bank who would buy into the view that would advance NTFC as a viable business., sufficiently enough that they would provide significant funding to cover medium term losses. Say for example relegation from the football league.
3. A clear Management structure. Detailed CVs. Who is responsible for what. I am firmly against management by committee. In my view it rarely if ever works.
I accept I am to a degree of asking too much too soon but you are asking us to take a leap of faith. I do not know your and your backers sufficiently well to be able to support this
You are not asking too much - what you suggest are the fundamental essentials to move from theoretical pie in the sky to something that might just work - alas currently I see nothing from the usual suspects apart from giving KT some stick (which won"t make one iota of difference)
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BedsCobb
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Problem is for someone to lead so the others follow, the Leader has to have a plan. Yours is so vague and lacking in detail it is in my eyes incapable of being taken seriously.
I can only speak for myself personally. I would only countenance a fans led take over if:
1 They could demonstrate significant funding.I would only even consider deviating from this if I thought we were about to go into Administration. The present owners business plan is they want to sell for the maximum price. They will therefore support the club in the short term, if only for their own ambitions.
2 A clear business plan is put forward. Where is the funding coming from, on what basis? No waffle. A plan that could be presented to a Bank who would buy into the view that would advance NTFC as a viable business., sufficiently enough that they would provide significant funding to cover medium term losses. Say for example relegation from the football league.
3. A clear Management structure. Detailed CVs. Who is responsible for what. I am firmly against management by committee. In my view it rarely if ever works.
I accept I am to a degree of asking too much too soon but you are asking us to take a leap of faith. I do not know your and your backers sufficiently well to be able to support this
You could ask Thomas and co the very same confirmation of their 'plans for our club... 3.5 years on and its still the small band of loyal supporters paying at the gate, a little input from local buisneses and our share of tv monies... All the above would still be available to any group taking over so financially we are starting from the exact same place but with damned sight more local good will.
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guest168
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Ok I will have a go Pedj......
I will pay off the HMRC bill and I have £4.5m to invest and will finish the East stand.
Oh and i don't support or live in Northampton
That I assume is more than good enough for you, as I don't understand why you want those with a very genuine love of NTFC to be 1000000% accountable and what them know everything and prove all to you before they have even started. But as above shows: outsiders and their broken promises who turn up only actually interest in surrounding land are welcomed with unquestioned and opening arms
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guest3245
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Can I just re-iterate: We have local councils who are in special measures due to failure of Fiscal Management. No way will any Goverrnment body give NTFC any land or money. Be grateful that NTFC still has a ground to play in. Those who want more...... Buy the land, and lease it back to the club..... Go on..... Do it, else shut the f@ up. (Aparently, you only have to troll up to a bank and ask for £xM..... yes? ) (For those who say the club should do blah-di-blah..... get a business plan together & do it yourselves..... You will be on to a multi-million-pound payout, as well as being the heroes of of NTFC !!!!! ) Big hugs, my keyboard fantasists!
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Manwork04
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Can I just re-iterate: We have local councils who are in special measures due to failure of Fiscal Management. No way will any Goverrnment body give NTFC any land or money. Be grateful that NTFC still has a ground to play in. Those who want more...... Buy the land, and lease it back to the club..... Go on..... Do it, else shut the f@ up. (Aparently, you only have to troll up to a bank and ask for £xM..... yes? ) (For those who say the club should do blah-di-blah..... get a business plan together & do it yourselves..... You will be on to a multi-million-pound payout, as well as being the heroes of of NTFC !!!!! ) Big hugs, my keyboard fantasists! Why don't you shut the f@ up.
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Rule Britannia
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GrangeParkCobbler
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I think that a fans run/fans influenced club could work and be the way forward.......then I read some of the posts on here.......and suddenly I have my doubts!
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The Hotel End GTA Champion 2006/07, 2007/08, 2011/12, 2012/13, 2018/19 and 2023/24
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guest48
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I think that a fans run/fans influenced club could work and be the way forward.......then I read some of the posts on here.......and suddenly I have my doubts!
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guest3114
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Problem is for someone to lead so the others follow, the Leader has to have a plan. Yours is so vague and lacking in detail it is in my eyes incapable of being taken seriously.
I can only speak for myself personally. I would only countenance a fans led take over if:
1 They could demonstrate significant funding.I would only even consider deviating from this if I thought we were about to go into Administration. The present owners business plan is they want to sell for the maximum price. They will therefore support the club in the short term, if only for their own ambitions.
2 A clear business plan is put forward. Where is the funding coming from, on what basis? No waffle. A plan that could be presented to a Bank who would buy into the view that would advance NTFC as a viable business., sufficiently enough that they would provide significant funding to cover medium term losses. Say for example relegation from the football league.
3. A clear Management structure. Detailed CVs. Who is responsible for what. I am firmly against management by committee. In my view it rarely if ever works.
I accept I am to a degree of asking too much too soon but you are asking us to take a leap of faith. I do not know your and your backers sufficiently well to be able to support this
Continuing to play along with “fantasy football club ownership” I will say this again for the h@rdcore enthusiasts. The only way you will ever obtain funding from the banks would be if you had the cast iron collateral to underwrite the loan. Further to this even that would not guarantee the funding. I know many struggle with this concept but this comes from having been in the position professionally on multiple occasions. As a result it is difficult for me to convey on here the enormity of what this concept entails in reality. How and why do you think the last lot were able to justify the need to use the council last time? The reason they were not told to p1ss off and use the banks is that this would be akin to asking for the money from the cat. In fact I would go as far as to say obtaining millions in investment without collateral is right up there with putting a man on the moon. Hope this once again clears this up?
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guest168
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You do know that the football club generates around £4m of income without trying too hard without any business plans for growth, only stagnation
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guest3114
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You do know that the football club generates around £4m of income without trying too hard without any business plans for growth, only stagnation
Genuine question Random. Hypothetically you run a business that consistently has a turnover of around 4 million. Assume your profit margin is also consistently in excess of 20% year on year which currently dwarfs that of NTFC. Now assume you also have tangible assets that exceed 1 million that you were prepared to offer as collaral on any loan.Then assume you went to let’s say Barclays and the RBS. What do you imagine you would be typically offered as an overdraft facility? I would be interested to hear your estimation?
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BedsCobb
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Continuing to play along with “fantasy football club ownership” I will say this again for the h@rdcore enthusiasts. The only way you will ever obtain funding from the banks would be if you had the cast iron collateral to underwrite the loan. Further to this even that would not guarantee the funding. I know many struggle with this concept but this comes from having been in the position professionally on multiple occasions. As a result it is difficult for me to convey on here the enormity of what this concept entails in reality. How and why do you think the last lot were able to justify the need to use the council last time? The reason they were not told to p1ss off and use the banks is that this would be akin to asking for the money from the cat. In fact I would go as far as to say obtaining millions in investment without collateral is right up there with putting a man on the moon. Hope this once again clears this up?
At no time did Thomas or the Cardozas pull millions out from their personal bank accounts to use for investment into the football club, so why do you think all of sudden we would need a vast amount of bank loans in order for any new owners/ consortium/ supporters run club to take the next step? It would need a big push to entice 1500 lapsed fans to return and be joined by 1500 new recruits to get on board in a stadium that is being redeveloped in stages with the help of dozens of local buisneses and well wishers making things happen. I fully understand your blinkered point of view that things will remain at the same low point as it is now, but you must not underestimate how easily momentum builds when a Town and catchment find a genuine sense of pride and a belief in a local club and its efforts to rebuild its infrastructure. If Northampton town fc had some real direction with genuine well publiced development plans that supporters can actully see and gives the stadium a professional outlook, they will back it to the hilt. Our lowly football club with its 1980s facilities is not going attract bids in the millions so hopefully Thomas will off soon and the club able to finally see some steady growth.
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JollyCobbler
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At no time did Thomas or the Cardozas pull millions out from their personal bank accounts to use for investment into the football club, so why do you think all of sudden we would need a vast amount of bank loans in order for any new owners/ consortium/ supporters run club to take the next step? It would need a big push to entice 1500 lapsed fans to return and be joined by 1500 new recruits to get on board in a stadium that is being redeveloped in stages with the help of dozens of local buisneses and well wishers making things happen. I fully understand your blinkered point of view that things will remain at the same low point as it is now, but you must not underestimate how easily momentum builds when a Town and catchment find a genuine sense of pride and a belief in a local club and its efforts to rebuild its infrastructure.
If Northampton town fc had some real direction with genuine well publiced development plans that supporters can actully see and gives the stadium a professional outlook, they will back it to the hilt. Our lowly football club with its 1980s facilities is not going attract bids in the millions so hopefully Thomas will off soon and the club able to finally see some steady growth.
No, but Melbourne's point is they were able to show they had those financial resources set aside, thus making them a safer bet. Given NTFC's poor credit rating (post Cardoza) and lack of tangible assets, any talk of fan ownership is pie in the sky without some deep pocketed fans willing to risk their own wealth. Get real. The club doesn't even own a ground FFS! If Pompey's (far greater numbers of) fans had defaulted on the club's debts, at least the Fratton Park footprint presented financial return on any accrued debt.
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« Last Edit: January 02, 2019, 21:55:25 pm by JollyCobbler »
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