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Redevelopment Closer Than Ever?

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Author Topic: Redevelopment Closer Than Ever?  (Read 1819833 times)
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« Reply #23700 on: January 14, 2019, 21:34:59 pm »

Presumably you are taking the Mick, you can only  consider the grounds the Club is currently playing in - not future potential grounds.
Of all the Grounds Stanley was the poorest I have been to. If they have done ground improvements it is hardly upto Sixfields standard.
Add Mansfield and Burton to the list. The trouble with your argument is that you ensure that it suits your agenda. We all know Sixfields needs updating and no doubt you will be part of the new consortium with money to spare.
I'm with you on this Evers...the Wham stadium experience couldn't outstrip an Andrew Ridgely open mic night!  Grin
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« Reply #23701 on: January 14, 2019, 21:47:32 pm »

Nutter

Thank you for for your valuable insight; your caring response; your conciseness.

Do you think you can do the same henceforth?

Or, will that red-mist creep over your keyboard fingers as soon your eyes behold the slightest hint of non-conformism?

(By the way, I assume your current grumpiness is due to weeping bed-sores.  I understand why they are crying....   Cry  )
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« Reply #23702 on: January 14, 2019, 21:52:22 pm »

The demand is sort of already there, we took 7000 to MK cup game, 21000 to wembley, 44000 to wembley  etc. Not sure when he said that re Worcester but I expect they never had that level of proven support at any time

There is no one single answer that will keep everyone happy and solve all our problems.

What is clear is that the Northampton public is fed up with outside land investors or worse, who break their promises and have no plan for NTFC.

It is all about value, and everyones value is different but I am pretty sure that IF we were all things Beds wants, I have no doubt we would have 8-9000 at least.

Those who stay away want in bad times want to be associated with success, determination, effort and more success, what division they are in has little relevance. Leeds, Portsmouth and Sunderland all have hit massive attendances when they are around the top of the table, it doesn't matter that they were in League 1 at the time. However for this to be sustained the match day experience needs to be good to hold them when that success drops a bit and good atmosphere with facilities also then helps attract the better players, which might bring more success etc etc etc  
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« Reply #23703 on: January 14, 2019, 21:55:41 pm »

Thank you for for your valuable insight; your caring response; your conciseness.

Do you think you can do the same henceforth?

Or, will that red-mist creep over your keyboard fingers as soon your eyes behold the slightest hint of non-conformism?

(By the way, I assume your current grumpiness is due to weeping bed-sores.  I understand why they are crying....   Cry  )

That's it - you are a nutter.
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« Reply #23704 on: January 14, 2019, 22:17:55 pm »

The demand is sort of already there, we took 7000 to MK cup game, 21000 to wembley, 44000 to wembley  etc. Not sure when he said that re Worcester but I expect they never had that level of proven support at any time

There is no one single answer that will keep everyone happy and solve all our problems.

What is clear is that the Northampton public is fed up with outside land investors or worse, who break their promises and have no plan for NTFC.

It is all about value, and everyones value is different but I am pretty sure that IF we were all things Beds wants, I have no doubt we would have 8-9000 at least.

Those who stay away want in bad times want to be associated with success, determination, effort and more success, what division they are in has little relevance. Leeds, Portsmouth and Sunderland all have hit massive attendances when they are around the top of the table, it doesn't matter that they were in League 1 at the time. However for this to be sustained the match day experience needs to be good to hold them when that success drops a bit and good atmosphere with facilities also then helps attract the better players, which might bring more success etc etc etc  
Some valid points Random. However, if we have proven demand then we would sell out regularly. The concern I have with my argument is that if success on the pitch alone is the catalyst then we would have sold out regularly during our promotion season and if I recall we didn’t. Growing up in Northampton no one seemed to give a sh1t about Rugby as a spectator sport. It is undeniable that the rise in popularity of Rugby was capitalised on by the Saints spectacularly. Part of this capitalisation was the enhancement of the match day experience, so proper consideration and investment a various levels has to be given to both factors. I will continue to emphasise this point, to reiterate the biggest single challenge in all this is to raise and have a provable delivery of capital to the correct channels. It is absolutely everything. Self funded from profit is not impossible, but convincing the relevant and necessary associates, partners and suppliers this can adequately support lines of credit is a very considerable difficultly that I believe makes this option unworkable. I’m not making this stuff up to annoy or frustrate people, these are just the challenges as I see them and all the wishful thinking in the world won’t make them go away.
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« Reply #23705 on: January 14, 2019, 22:19:39 pm »

Not us, well yes us but in  reversal as our lack of ground is  a crippling millstone  so let's not worry others?
To build up Sixfields in 3 stages, East stand, south stand extention and finally the north stand, thus giving us a ground thats free from current match day restrictions in which we can comfortably house many more visiting fans who are attracted to a proper ground, so by looking to achieve a 1% increase in our catchment  giving gates of 8000 plus in a 12000 capacity ground that allows further growth and bigger attendances for the many more big attractive games we will get involved in, this way removes the stagnating obstacles we as a club never seem avoid.
Basically doing things in an easy to achieve well publiced stages will gather momentum and introduce the buzz for following the football club of Northampton, something thats been missing  for so long .

If this were a business proposal for an established company, a growth rate of 1% PA would be considered to be cautious, so I can fully see what Beds is saying here.

Some wise infrastructure investment could well see the required uplift in the attendance.

Stagnation is effectively contraction?
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« Reply #23706 on: January 14, 2019, 22:29:54 pm »

The royal "we"again - why dont you be honest and say "me".
I wasn't actually including you in the 'we' so don' t get into a lather over it Kiss
Really not that interested in your love for non league grounds while we still retain our league position.
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« Reply #23707 on: January 14, 2019, 22:35:00 pm »

If this were a business proposal for an established company, a growth rate of 1% PA would be considered to be cautious, so I can fully see what Beds is saying here.

Some wise infrastructure investment could well see the required uplift in the attendance.

Stagnation is effectively contraction?
It’s not an established company, it is a professional sports club that presents some unique restrictions with regards to growth when compared to businesses generally. For example we grew our business by 50% in 5 years. This was achieved by opening up a new market in another country. Is this option (and there are many others to list) open to NTFC? Generalised statements are all well and good but in my opinion I am seeing very few specific proposals on here that carry any real credibility. That doesn’t mean they are not there though.
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« Reply #23708 on: January 14, 2019, 23:01:47 pm »

Some valid points Random. However, if we have proven demand then we would sell out regularly. The concern I have with my argument is that if success on the pitch alone is the catalyst then we would have sold out regularly during our promotion season and if I recall we didn’t. Growing up in Northampton no one seemed to give a sh1t about Rugby as a spectator sport. It is undeniable that the rise in popularity of Rugby was capitalised on by the Saints spectacularly. Part of this capitalisation was the enhancement of the match day experience, so proper consideration and investment a various levels has to be given to both factors. I will continue to emphasise this point, to reiterate the biggest single challenge in all this is to raise and have a provable delivery of capital to the correct channels. It is absolutely everything. Self funded from profit is not impossible, but convincing the relevant and necessary associates, partners and suppliers this can adequately support lines of credit is a very considerable difficultly that I believe makes this option unworkable. I’m not making this stuff up to annoy or frustrate people, these are just the challenges as I see them and all the wishful thinking in the world won’t make them go away.
You need to understand that in its present guise there are several reasons the ground very rearly sells out even thought the demand is there, some of the reasons range from it having severe ticket restrictions for bigger games, fans unable to go and sit with friends , uninspiring tiny little stands, lack of future plans to sell to the clubs fan base and generally a total lack of interest amongst our most important fans, which are those who have yet to be converted of which theres 10s of thousands.
So using the current state of our archaic little ground as a yard stick should be nul and void.
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« Reply #23709 on: January 14, 2019, 23:12:39 pm »

It’s not an established company, it is a professional sports club that presents some unique restrictions with regards to growth when compared to businesses generally. For example we grew our business by 50% in 5 years. This was achieved by opening up a new market in another country. Is this option (and there are many others to list) open to NTFC? Generalised statements are all well and good but in my opinion I am seeing very few specific proposals on here that carry any real credibility. That doesn’t mean they are not there though.
I can only assume you believe the town and county of Northampton doesn't like football?
Well being ts our national sport, a successful Cobblers playing in a stadium that gives some civic pride that features all the facilities known to attract football fans, playing competitively in league 1 against all our local rivals and big attractive clubs that drop into L1 on regular basis, would so very easily  give us 50% growth in a lot shorter time.
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« Reply #23710 on: January 14, 2019, 23:16:15 pm »

It’s not an established company, it is a professional sports club that presents some unique restrictions with regards to growth when compared to businesses generally. For example we grew our business by 50% in 5 years. This was achieved by opening up a new market in another country. Is this option (and there are many others to list) open to NTFC? Generalised statements are all well and good but in my opinion I am seeing very few specific proposals on here that carry any real credibility. That doesn’t mean they are not there though.

Government predictions are that the population of Northampton will increase by 80,000 within the next ten years, which offers some genuine scope for increasing the club's support base. No one is suggesting the club needs to increase capacity to silly levels, but something in the region of 10,000+ isn't unreasonable. Let's face it, if either Cardoza or Thomas was a man of their word, we should already be there.
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« Reply #23711 on: January 14, 2019, 23:23:48 pm »

I can only assume you believe the town and county of Northampton doesn't like football?
Well being ts our national sport, a successful Cobblers playing in a stadium that gives some civic pride that features all the facilities known to attract football fans, playing competitively in league 1 against all our local rivals and big attractive clubs that drop into L1 on regular basis, would so very easily  give us 50% growth in a lot shorter time.
Your assumptions are nothing more than assumptions and as ever staggeringly misguided. Your refusal to embark on any balanced assessment whilst endearing mearly highlights the shortcomings in your credibility. However I’ll keep questioning your nonsense as long as you keep spouting it. You can evade as much as you like, they will keep coming right back at you. A claim of easily achievable, and I quote “easily” 50% growth displays a level of incompetence rarely experienced in my professional life. However, whilst you keep attempting to influence the path of the club I love I will continue to expose your ridiculous jargon. Call it a labour of love.
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« Reply #23712 on: January 14, 2019, 23:28:18 pm »

Government predictions are that the population of Northampton will increase by 80,000 within the next ten years, which offers some genuine scope for increasing the club's support base. No one is suggesting the club needs to increase capacity to silly levels, but something in the region of 10,000+ isn't unreasonable. Let's face it, if either Cardoza or Thomas was a man of their word, we should already be there.
That may well be true Jolly but the point of contention was the comparison between NTFC and a general “established” company. There are undeniable differences that need to be considered when making comparisons. That’s all I’m saying.
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« Reply #23713 on: January 15, 2019, 00:09:33 am »

Another gem from Lutons finest “So using the current state of our archaic little ground as a yard stick should be nul and void“. So according to you any opinion surrounding our ability to fill our current ground is null and void. In other words a concern for some of the support base is off the table for evaluation? The quoted opinion of Jim O’Toole is obviously irrelevant because you haven’t commented either? To repeat get some considered balance to your views and opinions tempered with some common sense otherwise they will continue to be subjected to ridicule and irrelevance.
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« Reply #23714 on: January 15, 2019, 06:19:45 am »

I used Worcester RFC as an example only to show what can be achieved with a wealthy backer committed to his club and city.  It is I think a useful example because that club also had a poor ground and lower than desired attendances.  Remember when you start number crunching NTFC's customer base should be significantly greater than Worcester's with our population being 230,000 and Worcester's 100,000.  I have not even begun to estimate our catchment area.  Also a successful football club probably has more pulling power than a rugby club, the more so when you take into account away support.  Clearly, the wealthy backer or backers have to put their collateral on the line. I take that as read.

The challenge is that we have owners who need to go and go quickly because they appear to have no intention of progressing our club.  There is always the nagging worry of being careful of what you wish for but so be it.  We cannot continue as we are with owner after owner failing us.  It is also time for fans to become motivated and get behind the move to change the current dismal state of affairs.  For those who are simply happy to turn up and watch League 2 football and will be content to do so for years to come in a stadium lacking in investment there is no hope and they will continue to tell us about their no can do approach to supporting the Cobblers.

The Trust is on the case but, like the broader base of supporters, a change of direction and attitude is needed.  We await to see what transpires.
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« Reply #23715 on: January 15, 2019, 07:03:23 am »

I can only assume you believe the town and county of Northampton doesn't like football?
Well being ts our national sport, a successful Cobblers playing in a stadium that gives some civic pride that features all the facilities known to attract football fans, playing competitively in league 1 against all our local rivals and big attractive clubs that drop into L1 on regular basis, would so very easily  give us 50% growth in a lot shorter time.
I have a lot of mates (ah football fwend) who like football and support a range of premier league teams! Most have been on the glory days to Wembley and asked about tickets when we get the big cup games etc but they have no interest in coming on a weekly basis and its nothing to do with the ground. Its the 'sh1t' level of football! A few have been to sixfields on the odd occasion and to paraphrase they see Sixfields as a 'great little stadium'. Now I dont agree with that but its because they are comparing it to premier league grounds and they see it as 'cute'.
My point is there is a fairly large group of people I know that dont attend because of the level of football and not the stadium. They wont suddenly come if we have a new east stand or terracing, they will come when we climb the leagues and get some decent football. Thats where the focus should be, not build it and they will come.
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« Reply #23716 on: January 15, 2019, 07:23:14 am »

I'm with you on this Evers...the Wham stadium experience couldn't outstrip an Andrew Ridgely open mic night!  Grin

I'm taking that you've only experienced it from an away perspective. Go in the home end at Accrington and see what Andy Holt is doing and I guarantee you'll be impressed particularly the local real ale bars! Meanwhile 3 years down the line the computer is still saying no on getting the decent real and craft ales made locally on sale at Sixfields. That's if you can get served. New training ground on the way at Stanley too.
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« Reply #23717 on: January 15, 2019, 07:47:59 am »

I have a lot of mates (ah football fwend) who like football and support a range of premier league teams! Most have been on the glory days to Wembley and asked about tickets when we get the big cup games etc but they have no interest in coming on a weekly basis and its nothing to do with the ground. Its the 'sh1t' level of football! A few have been to sixfields on the odd occasion and to paraphrase they see Sixfields as a 'great little stadium'. Now I dont agree with that but its because they are comparing it to premier league grounds and they see it as 'cute'.
My point is there is a fairly large group of people I know that dont attend because of the level of football and not the stadium. They wont suddenly come if we have a new east stand or terracing, they will come when we climb the leagues and get some decent football. Thats where the focus should be, not build it and they will come.
3 generations of potential Northampton town fans have virtual been lost due to growing up listening to how poor a club we are. Many of them would hear, they're rubbish  why do you want to watch them?
Had we ever maintained a higher level of football at L1 playing in a much better less restrictive  stadium that each season hosted several big attractive league games and a few in the cup, a buzz would've  been created,  young fans tend flock to these games able to stand/ sit with friends in what would  be a more professional looking atmospheric, can wait to return, stadium.
Current day Sixfields is the reason we witness s*** levels of football,  unable to escape division 4, it's why we cant get proper transfer fees for our young players, why we cant attract local businesse's because we don't have proper corporate facilities,
But most importantly cant attract the 1000s of towns young people, because they are constantly told 'we are rubbish'
After these past 20 years of zero growth, it's hard to argue against.

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« Reply #23718 on: January 15, 2019, 07:52:44 am »

3 generations of potential Northampton town fans have virtual been lost due to growing up listening to how poor a club we are. Many of them would hear, they're rubbish  why do you want to watch them?
Had we ever maintained a higher level of football at L1 playing in a much better less restrictive  stadium that each season hosted several big attractive league games and a few in the cup, a buzz would've  been created,  young fans tend flock to these games able to stand/ sit with friends in what would  be a more professional looking atmospheric, can wait to return, stadium.
Current day Sixfields is the reason we witness **** levels of football,  unable to escape division 4, it's why we cant get proper transfer fees for our young players, why we cant attract local businesse's because we don't have proper corporate facilities,
But most importantly cant attract the 1000s of towns young people, because they are constantly told 'we are rubbish'
After these past 20 years of zero growth, it's hard to argue against.



Of course it's possible with rounded infrastructure and club management policies to raise attendances. We're already at a small proportion of the catchment area with the population of the Town due to rise. Think of it as a challenge, a huge market that you need to get to buy into what is a pretty great sport. We're failing by the by.

Instead of a "it's only the Cobblers" or "that'll do" approach we need a new mindset of pushing boundaries. We've had nearly a hundred years of short-term thinking. Time for a change.
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« Reply #23719 on: January 15, 2019, 08:08:52 am »

Another gem from Lutons finest “So using the current state of our archaic little ground as a yard stick should be nul and void“. So according to you any opinion surrounding our ability to fill our current ground is null and void. In other words a concern for some of the support base is off the table for evaluation? The quoted opinion of Jim O’Toole is obviously irrelevant because you haven’t commented either? To repeat get some considered balance to your views and opinions tempered with some common sense otherwise they will continue to be subjected to ridicule and irrelevance.
Steady sustainable growth working very closely with the town and catchment is my preference to escape our current plight.
The only person who said leave Sixfields  as it is, its fine for league 1, was Thomas, and look how well that went.
I believe the best most cost effective way of getting our ground league 1 ready giving it a professional want to visit feel to be place would be to fit out the east stand boxes first and a large bank of terracing built up behind the South.
Not to everyone's cup of tea but kills more birds with less stones.
I will be honest and admit to having no idea who Jim Otoole is, but if he puts forward workable ideas into getting our club and it infrastrure moving in the right direction,  that's fine by me.
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