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Redevelopment Closer Than Ever?

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BedsCobb
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« Reply #23760 on: January 15, 2019, 18:04:34 pm »

Sorry to drag up an old post, but I have been playing catch up on this thread.

Unfortunately Random you are wrong. The Northampton public do not give a flying fúck about NTFC. If we were to go down the tube tomorrow never to resurface in twelve months most people would have forgotten there ever was a football club. At the moment all they are interested in is the latest on the Cardoza/Loan saga purely for voyeuristic reasons.
Not only do the Northampton public care very much for its football club, So does the whole football league.
We have allowed ourselves to be cheated from exciting profitable fixtures against local teams such as , Cov Luton, Posh, Oxford, Walsall etc and interesting match ups against the likes of Portsmouth Charlton, Sunderland and many more this season costing us over £1.5m due to our owners inability to run our football club in a manner that allows it to retain league 1 status and  be competitive.
It's our owners that dont really care long term not our clubs supporters .
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« Reply #23761 on: January 15, 2019, 18:21:35 pm »

But won't your cobblers consortium be fans?  and therefore the club be fan owned?

also what would you expect from a Trust member being on the board? 

Not necessarily and even if they are they may well be not be in the manner accetable to all.... If you follow my drift? A Trust Member on the Board should enable the Fans to have a representative. True this privilege will have its issues particularly actual involvement. If you lend the Club £10k that should enable a Trust Member to be party to some Board Meetings/Decisions?  Yes?
To put forward Business Plans for NTFC it is better to present yourself with sufficient Credentials to gain the confidence of Fans let alone would be creditors? Ideas are fine but am not sure if the plans from the "3 Musketeers" are acceptable on here. What they have done is divided the Fan base as amply shown by the recent KT Poll Vote. Seems to me that some on here misjudged the outcome of the Poll.
Yes/NO?
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« Reply #23762 on: January 15, 2019, 18:27:37 pm »

Now that is reasonable criticism and agree those comments can be intrerpretated as "nasty". So apologies to Beds in the first place. If he wishes I am happy to remove them. Regarding the comments has he ever justified his personal abilities to justify the type of Business Plans he has forever championed on here? Has he had experience in Financial Matters or Business Projects to justify his agenda? Beds has suffered considerable adverse comments on his views even from quite a few on here although that does not excuse me for apparently doing so. If Beds suffers adverse comment from others I hope you will take issue with them?
No offence taken, it actully made me laugh, I could almost  sense your angst.
Many an email written in a moment of anger by me was completely changed an hour later.
Todate there are no other viable workable plans that have been put forward, so sadly mine is the only show in town, so in the absence of a sugar daddy willing to pump a minimum of £2.5m into getting the East finished to a workable standard and extending the South stand, my suggestion may even see the cold light of day.. Grin only joking.
There are skilled designers amongst us who have computer skills who could easily show what could be acheived with what we have and hopefully our fan base can vote upon some options  the minute ownership changes hands.
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« Reply #23763 on: January 15, 2019, 18:56:55 pm »

Why do i have to forward my business credentials for you to believe in what i say?

I haven't said we are going to do this or this or this have I?

I am only asking people on here to want more for our football club, I have not asked them for money or to vote for me. Yes I am against those that have hurt or belittled or damaged or stolen from my beloved football club, I have no idea why I am this passionate about NTFC, I just am.

What I really don't understand Evers is your total unstinting support for DC and now KT and your total destain for those genuine people who only want a football club to be proud of. You ask no questions or utter any words of discord about DC and KT but are quick to question the IQ of those who come up with far more intelligent comment and ideas that you have ever done.

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« Reply #23764 on: January 15, 2019, 19:00:30 pm »

+1 well said, random.
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« Reply #23765 on: January 15, 2019, 19:16:51 pm »

A moneyed Cobblers Consortium who give the Trust a place on the board. I don't think a Fan owned club(even at 55%) will work if this Forum is anything to go by; so much discord, false prophets and too many people with plans on how to spend other peoples money. My ego does not stretch to producing and supporting an acceptable plan which suit your agenda.
The majority fan owned club would be my preference Evers. It presents some enormous challenges particularly around the decision making process. Should that scenario happen you would have to employ a management team to run the club. However there is no getting around the issue that a camel is a horse designed by committee. Where we are currently all agreed is that passed structures have hardly been a raging success. Despite its flaws and challenges for me it represents an exciting option to take the club forward. That being said as I keep repeating it would take capital, and that would require a significant commitment from the support base. There has hardly been a positive response to that proposition since I put it up on here. In fact only me and Manny went on record as saying we were prepared to get involved to that extent. Of course it may also be down to affordability but the most vocal advocates for change on here namely Random and Beds haven’t committed to that. Whilst I accept this board only has the views of a limited number of supporters, it would represent a cross section of the passionate opinion. Therefore as much as I would like to see the proposal along the lines of the German model move forward I don’t believe there is the appetite for it at this time. That’s assuming the model requires significant raising of capital, and in that aspect alone I believe I am absolutely correct. It is difficult for me to convey how ridiculous it would be imo to attempt to gain control and run the club without it. I have said this before, but I would be equally critical of a neurologist attempting to perform brain surgery on himself.
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« Reply #23766 on: January 15, 2019, 19:40:48 pm »

No offence taken, it actully made me laugh, I could almost  sense your angst.
Many an email written in a moment of anger by me was completely changed an hour later.
Todate there are no other viable workable plans that have been put forward, so sadly mine is the only show in town, so in the absence of a sugar daddy willing to pump a minimum of £2.5m into getting the East finished to a workable standard and extending the South stand, my suggestion may even see the cold light of day.. Grin only joking.
There are skilled designers amongst us who have computer skills who could easily show what could be acheived with what we have and hopefully our fan base can vote upon some options  the minute ownership changes hands.


You sound just like Theresa MAy and we all know what has just happened
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« Reply #23767 on: January 15, 2019, 20:09:53 pm »

Let me repeat that I used Worcester RFC as an example of what one man with wealth and a commitment to his sport and club achieved and also because I have first hand knowledge as a visitor on several occasions of that club's new stand, everything that our East Stand should be and is not.  I am not claiming Worcester is the financial precedent NTFC, the Trust or whoever must follow. That is for them to decide.

But I would add that Clarkey followed up my post with figures showing Worcester RFC's losses. What he didn't say was that in 2017, 1 year before the sale, Worcester RFC was valued at £26.7m (source: BBC).  The accounts of that company would provide for the construction costs, capital allowances on the new stand and no corporation tax would be payable since agreed amounts of losses can be set off against income profit. Therefore, the negative financial conclusion Clarkey was impliedly presenting may not be all that it seems on the surface.  In any event, the financial losses did not hinder a sale and the new owners have further expansion plans.

On the broader debate that has unfolded about fans ownership people are jumping the gun.  A small number of posters expressing their views, ideas, vision is not the Trust. No plans have been announced because the financial model is not yet in place.  When we all know about it then there will be a debate and not only on this site.   The danger facing us is that before this happens KT/DB will have sold on to a.n. other and another X years pass of goodness knows what or who but history appears to have a nasty habit of repeating itself with NTFC's owners promising great things and delivering nothing but severe disappointment.  Against that we must guard.  A good and positive starting point would be to get behind the Trust, be patient whilst the detail is worked on and reserve sensible comment until that detail is in place for discussion.





[/qu

Request for patience would be understandable if it were not for members of the board constantly posting on here. They then claim they are acting in a personal capacity only. They should exercise constraint and come up with the model. how much longer before they demonstrate their credibility?
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« Reply #23768 on: January 15, 2019, 20:22:11 pm »

Why do i have to forward my business credentials for you to believe in what i say?

I haven't said we are going to do this or this or this have I?

I am only asking people on here to want more for our football club, I have not asked them for money or to vote for me. Yes I am against those that have hurt or belittled or damaged or stolen from my beloved football club, I have no idea why I am this passionate about NTFC, I just am.

What I really don't understand Evers is your total unstinting support for DC and now KT and your total destain for those genuine people who only want a football club to be proud of. You ask no questions or utter any words of discord about DC and KT but are quick to question the IQ of those who come up with far more intelligent comment and ideas that you have ever done.



You maybe missing the point on Cardoza and for that matter KT. I don't appreciate the type of criticism (perhaps some of it near libelous/abusive comments) aimed at both Chairmen. Of cource DC is a differerent kettle of fish  - where you at that fateful Feb Meeting in 2015 to support Iniesta? Big mistake by the anti DC brigade not to support Iniesta at that meeting. When the Trust joined in the protest against DC, I joined the Trust submitted monies and generally joined in the campaign. As a matter of interst did you?

I dont subscribe to your view that those who are proposing Business Plans etc should not at least exhibit their expertise in such matters; I find that an extraordinary comment.  I agree that to question the IQ of the "Three" Musketeers(of which you are 1) is a clumsy and poor taste jibe.
Unfortunately the apparent failure of you "three" to unite the fan base(on here) with your plans says a lot. Most of the time you all come up with same repetitive mantra. Thats not very clever is it! Furthermore on the question of IQ's in my opinion some of our Fanbase at least on here have shown considerable IQ levels and intelligence to question the "Three" on their plans. Some of them like Pedj and Cobblerswatch have declared their expertise and yet you do not!  What I suggest is unite with the remaining duo thrash out a plan and put it out to the fan base. A cohesive plan might achieve more results.

Best of Luck

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« Reply #23769 on: January 15, 2019, 20:24:53 pm »

No offence taken, it actully made me laugh, I could almost  sense your angst.
Many an email written in a moment of anger by me was completely changed an hour later.
Todate there are no other viable workable plans that have been put forward, so sadly mine is the only show in town, so in the absence of a sugar daddy willing to pump a minimum of £2.5m into getting the East finished to a workable standard and extending the South stand, my suggestion may even see the cold light of day.. Grin only joking.
There are skilled designers amongst us who have computer skills who could easily show what could be acheived with what we have and hopefully our fan base can vote upon some options  the minute ownership changes hands.


I like gentlemen Cool
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« Reply #23770 on: January 15, 2019, 20:25:52 pm »

Evers. I am certainly not claiming any expertise. Indeed I wouldn't consider myself any thing like qualified enough. My issue is that I don't have any confidence in other posters on this board. I hope I am wrong.
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« Reply #23771 on: January 15, 2019, 20:31:23 pm »

Let me repeat that I used Worcester RFC as an example of what one man with wealth and a commitment to his sport and club achieved and also because I have first hand knowledge as a visitor on several occasions of that club's new stand, everything that our East Stand should be and is not.  I am not claiming Worcester is the financial precedent NTFC, the Trust or whoever must follow. That is for them to decide.

But I would add that Clarkey followed up my post with figures showing Worcester RFC's losses. What he didn't say was that in 2017, 1 year before the sale, Worcester RFC was valued at £26.7m (source: BBC).  The accounts of that company would provide for the construction costs, capital allowances on the new stand and no corporation tax would be payable since agreed amounts of losses can be set off against income profit. Therefore, the negative financial conclusion Clarkey was impliedly presenting may not be all that it seems on the surface.  In any event, the financial losses did not hinder a sale and the new owners have further expansion plans.

On the broader debate that has unfolded about fans ownership people are jumping the gun.  A small number of posters expressing their views, ideas, vision is not the Trust. No plans have been announced because the financial model is not yet in place.  When we all know about it then there will be a debate and not only on this site.   The danger facing us is that before this happens KT/DB will have sold on to a.n. other and another X years pass of goodness knows what or who but history appears to have a nasty habit of repeating itself with NTFC's owners promising great things and delivering nothing but severe disappointment.  Against that we must guard.  A good and positive starting point would be to get behind the Trust, be patient whilst the detail is worked on and reserve sensible comment until that detail is in place for discussion.


Request for patience would be understandable if it were not for members of the board constantly posting on here. They then claim they are acting in a personal capacity only. They should exercise constraint and come up with the model. how much longer before they demonstrate their credibility?
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« Reply #23772 on: January 15, 2019, 20:49:02 pm »

Evers. I am certainly not claiming any expertise. Indeed I wouldn't consider myself any thing like qualified enough. My issue is that I don't have any confidence in other posters on this board. I hope I am wrong.

I did not intentially set out to misrepresent you but you seemed to have more relevant expertise than some.
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« Reply #23773 on: January 15, 2019, 21:08:00 pm »

Evers. I am certainly not claiming any expertise. Indeed I wouldn't consider myself any thing like qualified enough. My issue is that I don't have any confidence in other posters on this board. I hope I am wrong.
Did you have confidence in both Cardoza and Thomas, before losing faith after years of baloney?
Possibly they have made you lose all trust in anything to do with your football club?
Fear not, after the take over there will be no more council badgering, no long drawn out legal nonsence, secrecy and no more empty promises.
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« Reply #23774 on: January 16, 2019, 05:56:18 am »

Did you have confidence in both Cardoza and Thomas, before losing faith after years of baloney?
Possibly they have made you lose all trust in anything to do with your football club?
Fear not, after the take over there will be no more council badgering, no long drawn out legal nonsence, secrecy and no more empty promises.
Thank god, this long drawn out legal purchase secret and probably empty promise of how we are going to be able to take over a football club with no capital is really starting to grate on my nerves.
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« Reply #23775 on: January 16, 2019, 10:26:47 am »

You maybe missing the point on Cardoza and for that matter KT. I don't appreciate the type of criticism (perhaps some of it near libelous/abusive comments) aimed at both Chairmen. Of cource DC is a differerent kettle of fish  - where you at that fateful Feb Meeting in 2015 to support Iniesta? Big mistake by the anti DC brigade not to support Iniesta at that meeting. When the Trust joined in the protest against DC, I joined the Trust submitted monies and generally joined in the campaign. As a matter of interst did you?

I dont subscribe to your view that those who are proposing Business Plans etc should not at least exhibit their expertise in such matters; I find that an extraordinary comment.  I agree that to question the IQ of the "Three" Musketeers(of which you are 1) is a clumsy and poor taste jibe.
Unfortunately the apparent failure of you "three" to unite the fan base(on here) with your plans says a lot. Most of the time you all come up with same repetitive mantra. Thats not very clever is it! Furthermore on the question of IQ's in my opinion some of our Fanbase at least on here have shown considerable IQ levels and intelligence to question the "Three" on their plans. Some of them like Pedj and Cobblerswatch have declared their expertise and yet you do not!  What I suggest is unite with the remaining duo thrash out a plan and put it out to the fan base. A cohesive plan might achieve more results.

Best of Luck



Refresh my memory? Iniesta? What are you talking about?
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« Reply #23776 on: January 16, 2019, 12:50:10 pm »

Did DC or KT submit their business plan and prove their expertise to you or anyone else?

Yes of course I was there rattling buckets, I was also at a Trust board meeting trying to encourage the Trust to join up with NBC and thrash out a deal whilst a former MP was mudding the waters with talks of phoenix clubs and playing on the racecourse

I think those on the Trust board have finally had enough (my thoughts not what they have directly said)  and their patience has finally run out waiting on the word of would-be saviours. Like the old saying goes... if you want some done.. do it yourself  or if you want some done properly DO IT YOURSELF

I would agree the opposite regarding showing IQ when questioning us 3 musketeers, they very rarely actually put any of their own detail or suggestions, just belittling and put downs. They  / you complain of my comments re KT / DC well I don't think I have been proven wrong on anything I have said. Again I said 3 years ago KT would not build the East stand, now that was 3 long years ago, so perhaps that proves I have a really high IQ and know what I am talking about. Same with DC I was 4 years earlier than many of here.

You do realise that the 3 musketeers is actually a compliment,  as the cartoon went..... one for all and all for one, .. helping everybody   
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« Reply #23777 on: January 16, 2019, 12:57:03 pm »


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« Reply #23778 on: January 16, 2019, 14:28:00 pm »


You do realise that the 3 musketeers is actually a compliment,  as the cartoon went..... one for all and all for one, .. helping everybody   

It is easier to say (for me) the 'Three Musketeers' (hence fwd as the 'Three') as then it saves spelling/mentioning out names Cool I see you are fixated by the IQ comment (now withdrawn). Regarding the IQ levels of those who question the 'Three' you should be ashamed in doubting those who question your ideas. Clearly some of them have put together missives which suggest reasonable IQ debating levels. Please withdraw your calculated insult to those Posters who challenge your views.
Thanks
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« Reply #23779 on: January 16, 2019, 14:32:54 pm »

Refresh my memory? Iniesta? What are you talking about?

No I wont - you know very well what I meant and Iniesta was the hero of your movement.

I do agree might have misspelt his name tho' - some on here may help.
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