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Redevelopment Closer Than Ever?

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BedsCobb
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« Reply #24180 on: March 21, 2019, 07:24:33 am »

I thought the golden rule was " that a winning team attracts support"- if this is the case then Beds case might be on a slippery slope if next season we don't perform.  To a certain extent the Championship season proved the Golden Rule theory especially with bumper away support.
I think you do well to pursue Beds for clarification of his ideas; at least you don't resort to abusive comments like some on here.
You need to base things in context,  my ideal scenario is to have the infrastructure in place, done in stages and have the backing of our entire support base, buisness community and town at large, not the shambolic mess that had surrounded our club these past 20 years.
If the fans and town really feel part of the club, they will look after it and support it.
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« Reply #24181 on: March 21, 2019, 09:41:37 am »

Strongly recommend following @KieranMaguire on Twitter for a bit of a reality check when it comes to the Financial side of football.

Championship:
Losses of £10m p/a middle of the road. Barnsley lost £4m and went down.

https://twitter.com/KieranMaguire/status/1108264578763407360/photo/1

League 1
Blackburn paid £187 in wages for every £100 of income in 2017/18 in League One. Wigan incurred similar huge losses in achieving an automatic promotion slot.

However, there are on the face of it some solid results from the clubs who on the face of it are run quite pragmatically. The sub-text to this however is that it is unclear at-a-glance how much of the income of these clubs is "real" versus gifted from their owners.

https://twitter.com/KieranMaguire/status/1108630861887561729?s=20

For example we know Walsall's owner has the stadium and club under separate entities, which the club paying rent to his pension fund to play at their own ground, but the income the club receives appears to be supplemented by the owner.
https://www.theguardian.com/football/david-conn-inside-sport-blog/2011/mar/30/walsall-stadium-sale


Reasonable Article (despite coming from the Daily Heil)
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-6831921/Accrington-owner-Andy-Holt-horrified-footballs-skewed-finances.html
« Last Edit: March 21, 2019, 09:47:41 am by clarkeysntfc » Report Spam   Logged
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« Reply #24182 on: March 21, 2019, 09:52:34 am »

The beauty of football is you will have poor season's where you don't reach expectations,  it just means it takes a year longer

You are still not answering the question Beds, you are still following your happy path to success.

The bit above is simply not true under the model you proposed. If you sell the boxes and season tickets for 3 years in advance and for whatever reason (luck / injuries / manager) the team has an awful season and gets relegated in the second year, no one turns up the third year. What then? You have no gate income to speak of because you spent the season ticket money 2 years ago, you have higher running costs, less money from being in a lower league, sponsorship drops. That will not delay things for a year, that will cost you 5 years at least. Not to mention that, being community owned, there will be no rich owner propping up the club to protect their investment, whatever their motives.

I honestly think it is good that you have some ideas that could form part of a plan or strategy but you simply cannot operate on the basis that you hope it will work. That is exactly how most clubs have gone to the wall, regardless of their ownership model.
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« Reply #24183 on: March 21, 2019, 10:32:52 am »

You are still not answering the question Beds, you are still following your happy path to success.

The bit above is simply not true under the model you proposed. If you sell the boxes and season tickets for 3 years in advance and for whatever reason (luck / injuries / manager) the team has an awful season and gets relegated in the second year, no one turns up the third year. What then? You have no gate income to speak of because you spent the season ticket money 2 years ago, you have higher running costs, less money from being in a lower league, sponsorship drops. That will not delay things for a year, that will cost you 5 years at least. Not to mention that, being community owned, there will be no rich owner propping up the club to protect their investment, whatever their motives.

I honestly think it is good that you have some ideas that could form part of a plan or strategy but you simply cannot operate on the basis that you hope it will work. That is exactly how most clubs have gone to the wall, regardless of their ownership model.

Exactly right. He won't listen though, I've tried until I'm blue in the face...
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« Reply #24184 on: March 21, 2019, 11:38:42 am »

You need to base things in context,  my ideal scenario is to have the infrastructure in place, done in stages and have the backing of our entire support base, buisness community and town at large, not the shambolic mess that had surrounded our club these past 20 years.
If the fans and town really feel part of the club, they will look after it and support it.

The answer is right under your nose, yet you and quite a few others totally miss it. You won't see a return off of the east stand for many years to come. That's if you sell every box and manage to run it as a daily concern. We can see this from all lower league clubs that have built to capitalise.

Our biggest issue is two things. Player sales and lack of success in cups. Peterborough would have been staring down the barrel of a cumulative debt of 8-9 million over the last few years, had they not had decent cup runs and sold players for millions. Exeter by their own admission wouldn't  exist had it not been for a lucrative cup run. Newport the same.

Whether you like it or not. Without those two earners, the club will either run at a loss, or barely break even. All lower league clubs face the same fate. With the exception of those with a wealthy benefactor.

As for you boxes. If you build 10, you might see a return of 90k a year after catering, cleaning, maintenance costs are taken out. So if you rely on them to repay the 2 million you paid out on the stand. That's over 20 years before you see a return. Or half of them might sit empty for some games. It happens elsewhere all the time. And it certainly hasn't worked as a stand alone strategy at lower league level.

If I was KT I would do what he's doing now. Which you might say is sweet FA. But I wouldn't touch the East Stand. I would build a decent sized Hotel/Conference facility on whatever the largest footprint I could squeeze it on. I would then use that to progressively enhance the stadium over the next ten years. He doesn't even need to run it. And if there is any land left to develop other enabling property I would do that.

 
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« Reply #24185 on: March 21, 2019, 12:09:53 pm »

I'm  bored with the cardozas and now Thomas's 20 year policy of doing nothing until the council grants them vast wealth through free land and we supporters living in false
 hope of a small amount of investment in the ground even when nothing's even gaureenteed.
Due to having these running our club is the reason we have failed to attract any wealthy backers or to have witnessed any growth over the last 20 years, so surely getting free of Thomas and seeing the club going in another direction with a workable plan to show some growth would be a small but massive step in the right direction.
In reply to those who live in constant fear that should the unlikely event that the very worse case scenario befall us, as a community club that has a great relationship with the town it represents,  it would recover very quickly.
No one is suggesting we take extreme risks but calculated investments that has built in failsafe as and when we hit a rocky patch.
One thing for sure an open honest club, with growth plans in place, working with its whole catchment will be a far bigger draw than the nightmare situation we find ourselves in at the moment.



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« Reply #24186 on: March 21, 2019, 13:59:55 pm »


In reply to those who live in constant fear that should the unlikely event that the very worse case scenario befall us, as a community club that has a great relationship with the town it represents,  it would recover very quickly.



So, to sum up, your business plan relies upon the charitable nature of the good burghers of Northamptonshire to bail us out when/if it all goes wrong. OK, Mr Micawber...
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« Reply #24187 on: March 21, 2019, 14:14:04 pm »

So, to sum up, your business plan relies upon the charitable nature of the good burghers of Northamptonshire to bail us out when/if it all goes wrong. OK, Mr Micawber...
why should it go so drastically wrong?
I can only see it making improvements in every departments of our club allowing us to see steady growth.

If Thomas is here in 2 years time, claiming he is still frustrated, still blaming all and sundry for his inability to get our club moving, do you honestly think that wouldnt be detrimental to our club?

 
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« Reply #24188 on: March 21, 2019, 14:36:52 pm »

why should it go so drastically wrong?
I can only see it making improvements in every departments of our club allowing us to see steady growth.

If Thomas is here in 2 years time, claiming he is still frustrated, still blaming all and sundry for his inability to get our club moving, do you honestly think that wouldnt be detrimental to our club?

 

I give up.
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« Reply #24189 on: March 21, 2019, 14:48:37 pm »

Strongly recommend following @KieranMaguire on Twitter for a bit of a reality check when it comes to the Financial side of football.

Championship:
Losses of £10m p/a middle of the road. Barnsley lost £4m and went down.

https://twitter.com/KieranMaguire/status/1108264578763407360/photo/1

League 1
Blackburn paid £187 in wages for every £100 of income in 2017/18 in League One. Wigan incurred similar huge losses in achieving an automatic promotion slot.

However, there are on the face of it some solid results from the clubs who on the face of it are run quite pragmatically. The sub-text to this however is that it is unclear at-a-glance how much of the income of these clubs is "real" versus gifted from their owners.

https://twitter.com/KieranMaguire/status/1108630861887561729?s=20

For example we know Walsall's owner has the stadium and club under separate entities, which the club paying rent to his pension fund to play at their own ground, but the income the club receives appears to be supplemented by the owner.
https://www.theguardian.com/football/david-conn-inside-sport-blog/2011/mar/30/walsall-stadium-sale


Reasonable Article (despite coming from the Daily Heil)
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-6831921/Accrington-owner-Andy-Holt-horrified-footballs-skewed-finances.html

Well researched Iceman and thank you for bringing this info to the Forum. That's from me - can't speak for the rest!
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« Reply #24190 on: March 21, 2019, 15:04:58 pm »

I'm  bored with the cardozas and now Thomas's 20 year policy of doing nothing until the council grants them vast wealth through free land and we supporters living in false
 hope of a small amount of investment in the ground even when nothing's even gaureenteed.
Due to having these running our club is the reason we have failed to attract any wealthy backers or to have witnessed any growth over the last 20 years, so surely getting free of Thomas and seeing the club going in another direction with a workable plan to show some growth would be a small but massive step in the right direction.
In reply to those who live in constant fear that should the unlikely event that the very worse case scenario befall us, as a community club that has a great relationship with the town it represents,  it would recover very quickly.
No one is suggesting we take extreme risks but calculated investments that has built in failsafe as and when we hit a rocky patch.
One thing for sure an open honest club, with growth plans in place, working with its whole catchment will be a far bigger draw than the nightmare situation we find ourselves in at the moment.





If such investments were viable can you see any canny business man not making them?, after all according to you they are only out to make money from our club.
They haven't made such investments not because they are money grabbing, but because it is like most of your scenarios, complete and utter tosh and just because you keep repeating them isn't going to magically make a unicorn appear in the East Stand and start shítting tenners.
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« Reply #24191 on: March 21, 2019, 15:37:25 pm »


Can someone from the Trust confirm if it was a decision of the board to put that proposal in front of the council please.
Anyone from the Trust board confirm if it was a board decision or not to talk to the council and release the statement?
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« Reply #24192 on: March 21, 2019, 15:43:11 pm »

If such investments were viable can you see any canny business man not making them?, after all according to you they are only out to make money from our club.
They haven't made such investments not because they are money grabbing, but because it is like most of your scenarios, complete and utter tosh and just because you keep repeating them isn't going to magically make a unicorn appear in the East Stand and start shítting tenners.

I like the way you inject some (coarse) humour occasionally.
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« Reply #24193 on: March 21, 2019, 15:46:28 pm »


They haven't made such investments not because they are money grabbing, but because it is like most of your scenarios, complete and utter tosh and just because you keep repeating them isn't going to magically make a unicorn appear in the East Stand and start shítting tenners.

Of course it won't. That's utterly ridiculous. Everyone knows unicorns shít twenties.
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« Reply #24194 on: March 21, 2019, 15:58:53 pm »

Of course it won't. That's utterly ridiculous. Everyone knows unicorns shít twenties.
In a way Thomas was 5hitting his £4m to take over at our club?
Unicorns would probably pay out quicker.
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« Reply #24195 on: March 21, 2019, 15:59:46 pm »

Yet again Beds refuses to answer the question, proves the point that he is not worth listening to, just keep him well away from any attempt of fan ownership. Him and his cronies will have the Cobblers bankrupt within 2 years if they get any where near it.
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« Reply #24196 on: March 21, 2019, 16:08:51 pm »

If such investments were viable can you see any canny business man not making them?, after all according to you they are only out to make money from our club.
They haven't made such investments not because they are money grabbing, but because it is like most of your scenarios, complete and utter tosh and just because you keep repeating them isn't going to magically make a unicorn appear in the East Stand and start shítting tenners.
In the absence of canny buisness men these past 20 years, we need to forget relying on speculators to ever doing anything remotely resembling building up our club.
Its not going to happen.
That is why we need to look at other ways to help our club that doesn't involve outsiders stuffing their pockets.
All income and profit raised by the club ploughed back into it, no badgering the council for free hand outs but working in conjunction with them, as it pays to have them onside!
A well run club with a working plan  will be more likely to attract investment than the aloof secretive one we currently have.
There you go tcobb, your answer right there😂
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« Reply #24197 on: March 21, 2019, 17:05:19 pm »

No, yet again you haven't replied. You really are a waste of space.
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« Reply #24198 on: March 21, 2019, 17:08:36 pm »

In the absence of canny buisness men these past 20 years, we need to forget relying on speculators to ever doing anything remotely resembling building up our club.
Its not going to happen.
That is why we need to look at other ways to help our club that doesn't involve outsiders stuffing their pockets.
All income and profit raised by the club ploughed back into it, no badgering the council for free hand outs but working in conjunction with them, as it pays to have them onside!
A well run club with a working plan  will be more likely to attract investment than the aloof secretive one we currently have.
There you go tcobb, your answer right there😂
Completely agree with that highlighted sentence. Problem is 24,000 posts and a dodgy document later and I am still yet to see one.
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« Reply #24199 on: March 22, 2019, 00:10:58 am »

An extensive interview with the chairman again recently but ......
Still no update on the East stand .....
What on Earth is happening for crying out loud ?
Just give a straight answer kelvin
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