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Redevelopment Closer Than Ever?

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Author Topic: Redevelopment Closer Than Ever?  (Read 1017159 times)
BedsCobb
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« Reply #25260 on: July 17, 2019, 16:21:27 pm »

So what is your thoughts on the Council???
Hi Nigel,  I look at the very best things that happened to our club in the past 25 years and all are a direct result of NBC helping our club to progress, firstly 25 years ago they gifted us with a little stadium that was designed for expansion to allow our club to progress up the divisions, we failed to expand or move up the divisions,  so they allowed Cardoza to have a massive £12m to finally move our club forward, but due to some absolute fcukery by a few people,  it got weasled away.
They then despite being rinsed of £10m they waived their demands for money owed so to allowed Thomas and co to take the club for peanuts on a promise they had £4m on the hip so to finish the piece of crap thats standing like a monument to miss management.
They didnt finish it..
The council, while not perfect have gone way and above and beyond what would be expected of them, they have done far more than any outside speculators have or ever will.
We will one day need their help again, and its important that we work closely with them.
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« Reply #25261 on: July 17, 2019, 17:21:04 pm »

I'm already there! As I no longer recognise Thomas's club as being one to represent the town of Northampton, and the one I've followed for 50 years.
 Is this a sudden wind change from the you and the pod cast boys, who normally only see positives in 20 years at the hands of greedy speculators?
I once asked a perfectly reasonable question of Thomas when you had him on, that you thought better of asking, do you think I won't discuss pressing issues?
Tell us on your next pod cast honestly, as to where you stand on the current state of our club and its inability to compete with our local rival clubs and those elsewhere of similar stature?
It would make for a great listen.
Oh and thanks for the recent mention,  did make me laugh😂

Are you declining the invitation, then?

Personally, I would love to hear you on there. That would give me, and others, the best possible chance of understanding your POV and what can be done in your eyes.
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« Reply #25262 on: July 17, 2019, 18:38:41 pm »

I'm already there! As I no longer recognise Thomas's club as being one to represent the town of Northampton, and the one I've followed for 50 years.
 Is this a sudden wind change from the you and the pod cast boys, who normally only see positives in 20 years at the hands of greedy speculators?
I once asked a perfectly reasonable question of Thomas when you had him on, that you thought better of asking, do you think I won't discuss pressing issues?
Tell us on your next pod cast honestly, as to where you stand on the current state of our club and its inability to compete with our local rival clubs and those elsewhere of similar stature?
It would make for a great listen.
Oh and thanks for the recent mention,  did make me laugh

I think we give a fairly frank assessment of our opinions on the East Stand in this week's episode, Beds.

As for your question that you asked to ask KT - He appeared on the BBC Cobblers Show an hour before he recorded with us. He was asked the same question plus a lot more by Marc Webber and the BBC folks. I listened at the time and made the call to not ask him anything on the East Stand as I knew we wouldn't get any different answers. The podcast was then released the next day. The club did not inform of us KT's appearance on the BBC show until quite late. I made an editorial decision and went along the lines of trying to get to know him a little better, as a person and the chairman of our club.
We are not journalists, we are 3 fans who make a podcast. Sure, we could have asked the same questions Marc Webber did but what would have been the point? He would have sidestepped them and then our episode would have been no different to what the fans got to hear on the radio.

Back to my offer. Are you willing to chat with me, on the record, for the podcast?
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« Reply #25263 on: July 17, 2019, 19:11:44 pm »

Has Beds not taken up your offer Wazza ??
Come on Beds time to prove you not just all mouth.
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« Reply #25264 on: July 17, 2019, 19:35:30 pm »

I think we give a fairly frank assessment of our opinions on the East Stand in this week's episode, Beds.

As for your question that you asked to ask KT - He appeared on the BBC Cobblers Show an hour before he recorded with us. He was asked the same question plus a lot more by Marc Webber and the BBC folks. I listened at the time and made the call to not ask him anything on the East Stand as I knew we wouldn't get any different answers. The podcast was then released the next day. The club did not inform of us KT's appearance on the BBC show until quite late. I made an editorial decision and went along the lines of trying to get to know him a little better, as a person and the chairman of our club.
We are not journalists, we are 3 fans who make a podcast. Sure, we could have asked the same questions Marc Webber did but what would have been the point? He would have sidestepped them and then our episode would have been no different to what the fans got to hear on the radio.

Back to my offer. Are you willing to chat with me, on the record, for the podcast?
Thanks for the fair reply, Im most certainly up for a chat on the pod cast, but it'll be much as already discussed on here these past 15 years 😂
Nothing has changed...
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« Reply #25265 on: July 17, 2019, 19:48:24 pm »

Thanks for the fair reply, Im most certainly up for a chat on the pod cast, but it'll be much as already discussed on here these past 15 years
Nothing has changed...

That is not a problem. I shall be at the ground all day on Saturday if you are. Don't worry if not. I'm happy to arrange to chat with you. I think it would work very well to do it during a game while on the hill.
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« Reply #25266 on: July 17, 2019, 20:06:32 pm »

That is not a problem. I shall be at the ground all day on Saturday if you are. Don't worry if not. I'm happy to arrange to chat with you. I think it would work very well to do it during a game while on the hill.
After hundreds of posts of putting up with Beds repeating the same nonsense over and over and over again Iím actually looking forward to it, work that out?
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« Reply #25267 on: July 17, 2019, 20:14:06 pm »

Hi Nigel,  I look at the very best things that happened to our club in the past 25 years and all are a direct result of NBC helping our club to progress, firstly 25 years ago they gifted us with a little stadium that was designed for expansion to allow our club to progress up the divisions, we failed to expand or move up the divisions,  so they allowed Cardoza to have a massive £12m to finally move our club forward, but due to some absolute fcukery by a few people,  it got weasled away.
They then despite being rinsed of £10m they waived their demands for money owed so to allowed Thomas and co to take the club for peanuts on a promise they had £4m on the hip so to finish the piece of crap thats standing like a monument to miss management.
They didnt finish it..
The council, while not perfect have gone way and above and beyond what would be expected of them, they have done far more than any outside speculators have or ever will.
We will one day need their help again, and its important that we work closely with them.
Credit where credits due, this is actually a very good post and I happen to agree. Although the ongoing legal process may perhaps reveal some dubious motives for the loan?
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« Reply #25268 on: July 17, 2019, 20:40:57 pm »

After hundreds of posts of putting up with Beds repeating the same nonsense over and over and over again Iím actually looking forward to it, work that out?
You're finally getting on board me old duck.
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« Reply #25269 on: July 18, 2019, 12:12:18 pm »

Hi Nigel,  I look at the very best things that happened to our club in the past 25 years and all are a direct result of NBC helping our club to progress, firstly 25 years ago they gifted us with a little stadium that was designed for expansion to allow our club to progress up the divisions, we failed to expand or move up the divisions,  so they allowed Cardoza to have a massive £12m to finally move our club forward, but due to some absolute fcukery by a few people,  it got weasled away.
They then despite being rinsed of £10m they waived their demands for money owed so to allowed Thomas and co to take the club for peanuts on a promise they had £4m on the hip so to finish the piece of crap thats standing like a monument to miss management.
They didnt finish it..
The council, while not perfect have gone way and above and beyond what would be expected of them, they have done far more than any outside speculators have or ever will.
We will one day need their help again, and its important that we work closely with them.

I willingly accept the initial part of the statement regarding the building of the stadium. Although you would have had your/our bigger stadium had they took up some of the joint offers that were on the table at the time. Also, you need to take into consideration that huge amount of the approval of the Sixfields Stadium was sold to the council and the town based on how easily the stadium could be expanded on. It certainly wasn't cheap at the time, and we could have had a larger development for the money. As time goes by I am less convinced that future proofing for Sixfields was ever a consideration, and that certain work at Round Spinney and Moulton Park were the key factors in that price and any subsequent off setting. But... I am grateful for what we got. We'd have been out on our heels with the Cockerel (sp) trust hot on our backs about the County Ground. Nothing should detract from the great work that Terry Wire put into securing the ground. Fantastic guy, with a huge heart.

As for the loan to Cardoza. If you can't see how the council were equally culpable in what went wrong there, then I'm best leaving it where it is.

Of course we should work closely with them. I do it every day. But I'm sure that the already exceptionally long queue of people who have had their trust eradicated through interactions with them, has some new additions of late  Grin Grin Grin 

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« Reply #25270 on: July 18, 2019, 12:29:53 pm »

Hi Nigel,  I look at the very best things that happened to our club in the past 25 years and all are a direct result of NBC helping our club to progress, firstly 25 years ago they gifted us with a little stadium that was designed for expansion to allow our club to progress up the divisions, we failed to expand or move up the divisions,  so they allowed Cardoza to have a massive £12m to finally move our club forward, but due to some absolute fcukery by a few people,  it got weasled away.
They then despite being rinsed of £10m they waived their demands for money owed so to allowed Thomas and co to take the club for peanuts on a promise they had £4m on the hip so to finish the piece of crap thats standing like a monument to miss management.
They didnt finish it..
The council, while not perfect have gone way and above and beyond what would be expected of them, they have done far more than any outside speculators have or ever will.
We will one day need their help again, and its important that we work closely with them.

Whilst initial comments you make are correct, it is what you omit I take issue with.

Yes they got the club out of the mire at the County Ground by building the Stadium at Sixfields BUT you fail to mention the c*ck up by not agreeing an Ikea deal at Junction 15. Now who benefited by the enabling funds?

Yes the Council provided over ten million pounds for the expansion BUT who was the incompitant who gave the WHOLE sum in one lump?

Yes the Council facilitated KT BUT they did not tie down the land details in a watertight contract!

I suggest you try in the future to tell the FULL facts not just the ones you prefer!

Now is the time for the Council to tell their public their future plans for the area.
Now is the time for theTrust to tell supporters their understanding for our future.
Now is the time for KT to tell fans his intentions for the short term and long term future (off the field) for OUR football club..........PLEASE!!!
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« Reply #25271 on: July 18, 2019, 13:37:38 pm »

Whilst initial comments you make are correct, it is what you omit I take issue with.

Yes they got the club out of the mire at the County Ground by building the Stadium at Sixfields BUT you fail to mention the c*ck up by not agreeing an Ikea deal at Junction 15. Now who benefited by the enabling funds?

Yes the Council provided over ten million pounds for the expansion BUT who was the incompitant who gave the WHOLE sum in one lump?

Yes the Council facilitated KT BUT they did not tie down the land details in a watertight contract!

I suggest you try in the future to tell the FULL facts not just the ones you prefer!

Now is the time for the Council to tell their public their future plans for the area.
Now is the time for theTrust to tell supporters their understanding for our future.
Now is the time for KT to tell fans his intentions for the short term and long term future (off the field) for OUR football club..........PLEASE!!!

My understanding is that the Council built Sixfields off the back of selling the Corporation owned Northampton Transport bus company.

Also the land at Junction 15 is/was South Northants Council land, or at least SNC were complicit in getting the development thrown out, in association with NBC concerns about this "killing the town centre"

The money provided by the council was not given in one lump, it was drawn down in bits over 4 or 5 separate occasions which should have (but didn't) tied in with the development schedule.

Finally, as for the Council tying down the land....wasn't it KT who brought CDNL at the last minute when it was in administration thereby gazumping the council who thought the land would come back to them if the process saw CDNL Liquidated after the period of administration? The Council could have acted quicker....but it looks like KT knew what he was doing when he claimed CDNL.

All the above is my understanding of the points you have commented on.
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« Reply #25272 on: July 18, 2019, 15:17:23 pm »

Sorry but you can't blame the council.

Cardozians had been here years, who would have known they were going lose the 10 million pounds.

I am of the strong belief that no council should lend money to sports clubs unless they are fan run. Fans are the only people who care about the club as a whole.

Chairman should do what every other business does when they want a loan..... go to the bank.

Mind you this council spends millions on a one way system them spends millions putting it back a few years later - tells you all you need to know, waste waste waste. Hopefully they will have learnt lessons now and Northamptonshire as a whole will see funding spent correctly on improving the area rather than hiring boxes at Frannys gardens to watch the ruddy rugby.
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« Reply #25273 on: July 18, 2019, 15:27:13 pm »

Thank you GPC for your understanding.
If the money was drawn down in 4 or 5 stages it does not seem logical, if my understanding is correct, that 2 million was spent on building and 8 million on profit for somebody!!!!?Huh?

Lukey, I can blame the Council because they are supposed to employ professionals to oversee all aspects of our tax spending! So why was ALL the 10 million paid over?
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« Reply #25274 on: July 18, 2019, 15:38:50 pm »

Thought KT might have provided his usual non committal update by now in response to the latest Trust statement...

I guess it's stalemate all round for the foreseeable, unless the Trust know something we don't  Undecided

Still, what's happened to our "Muzzy" puts football into perspective after the year or so he's had...

Thoughts to all his friends and family after the passing of his mother, not long after his father also passed...

Stay strong Muzzy!
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« Reply #25275 on: July 19, 2019, 11:59:04 am »

Thank you GPC for your understanding.
If the money was drawn down in 4 or 5 stages it does not seem logical, if my understanding is correct, that 2 million was spent on building and 8 million on profit for somebody!!!!?Huh?

Lukey, I can blame the Council because they are supposed to employ professionals to oversee all aspects of our tax spending! So why was ALL the 10 million paid over?

Grange's points are accurate. Though, just to add, the money was initially paid out in increments of around about 1.5m when, and at a point the club had already failed to meet its specified targets (including initial repayments), some numpty at NBC decided to pay out a lump sum of over 4million. Negligence or something else; you decide?

ETA: Red flags should have been going up as soon as the club started transferring massive sums over to First Land.
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« Reply #25276 on: July 19, 2019, 12:32:23 pm »

Grange's points are accurate. Though, just to add, the money was initially paid out in increments of around about 1.5m when, and at a point the club had already failed to meet its specified targets (including initial repayments), some numpty at NBC decided to pay out a lump sum of over 4million. Negligence or something else; you decide?

ETA: Red flags should have been going up as soon as the club started transferring massive sums over to First Land.
Red flags should have been raised as soon as First Land got involved, why did NTFC need another company between them and Buckinghams ? Buckinghams had built quite a few stands and I'm 100% sure that they could have done everything that was needed to complete that stand without First Land. When you think about why were First Land bought in,  there is only one answer and that is to take money out of the pot, allegedly  Shocked
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« Reply #25277 on: July 19, 2019, 12:33:08 pm »

Sorry but you can't blame the council.



You absolutely can. And in fact you should.

Let's for one minute get away from the ideas that surround ownership. This should never have been an unconditional gift from the council. No matter what money they put into the infrastructure of Sixfields stadium, the council would be the ultimate beneficiary. They own it. As the landlords they should have been involved in every aspect of the demolition, design and construction of the East Stand. In fact, you should totally argue that none of the finances even needed to pass through the hands of the Cardozas or any company set up to manage the construction money. If I was funding the upgrade of a leased facility that I owned, I can't imagine why I would be handing over millions of pounds to the Tenant. I would agree staged payments to the main contractor. It was absolutely appropriate for the Cardozas to be involved in the design, because whatever was built needs to generate operating income and hopefully some profit. But why that ever ended up as large amounts of money being put their way I'm not sure. Prior to the money being given to the Cardozas, I sent numerous emails to the council and to David Mackintosh (which have been seen by others on here) asking who was presiding over the release of the money, and pleading with them not to release it to them. Mackintosh totally dismissed any notion that the money could go missing, as did the council.

All of that is water under the bridge. We have to move on from that. I totally appreciate the Trusts involvement and think that they are doing their level best to look at alternatives to the current impasse. But I doubt if even they are investing a lot of trust into the council at the moment. I still think that we are where we were from the day KT come in. And where I have always thought it would be. I think KT/DB will acquire what they want. Then we will be totally at the mercy of their intent. I'm going to sit firmly on the fence in terms of how that will go for the club...


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« Reply #25278 on: July 19, 2019, 12:35:50 pm »

Red flags should have been raised as soon as First Land got involved, why did NTFC need another company between them and Buckinghams ? Buckinghams had built quite a few stands and I'm 100% sure that they could have done everything that was needed to complete that stand without First Land. When you think about why were First Land bought in,  there is only one answer and that is to take money out of the pot, allegedly  Shocked

Blood hell mate... Just as I was writing the same.

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« Reply #25279 on: July 19, 2019, 12:54:17 pm »

Thought KT might have provided his usual non committal update by now in response to the latest Trust statement...

I guess it's stalemate all round for the foreseeable, unless the Trust know something we don't  Undecided

Still, what's happened to our "Muzzy" puts football into perspective after the year or so he's had...

Thoughts to all his friends and family after the passing of his mother, not long after his father also passed...

Stay strong Muzzy!

Who is Muzzy - apologies that I do not know immediately.
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