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Redevelopment Closer Than Ever?

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Author Topic: Redevelopment Closer Than Ever?  (Read 1820067 times)
BedsCobb, Observing and 27 Guests are viewing this topic.
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« Reply #25180 on: July 19, 2019, 22:27:05 pm »

I think it is worth understanding that the council were the only option the Cardozas had to raise funds for development. As stated before the banks and similar institutions simply wouldn’t be an option as the return on investment and security factors were practically non existent. However, the council is an organisation very poorly equipped to handle contracts and transactions of this nature? There are many competing motivations and agendas the decision making process is often flawed, and in some cases fatally. There are so many questions that come out of that time it is difficult to comprehend the thought processes that were going on, particularly from those in positions of responsibility? What is absolutely clear from this case and many other incidents that have taken place over the years is that the council cannot be counted upon to make reliable decisions. Yet it is blatantly obvious that any changes or progress the club may wish to make are going to invariably be reliant on the support and involvement of the council. That is always going to be a concern as this unfolds, because the future of the club is dependant on it. It worries me anyway.
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« Reply #25181 on: July 20, 2019, 07:50:37 am »

I am in complete agreement with Tel concerning the Council. 

Beware of shifting sands.  Only a few months after NBC set out its “red lines” the first one appears to be dropped, that is condition 1 – the insistence on the signing of the deed of surrender by CDNL (i.e. KT/DB).  This would settle the leasehold footprint from the back of the East Stand to the middle of the running track in favour of NTFC and, most important, its future owners and us the supporters.  Remember KT said this was the one issue holding up completion of the East Stand. As soon as the Council agreed to this correction our owners move the goalposts, refuse to sign the legal document and seek to make finishing the East Stand conditional on the wider development, which we all know is why they are here in the first place.  We can place no trust in our owners to do anything other than look after their own interests.  They will pay lip service to acting in the best interests of the club.  In the meantime KC will have to manage playing matters with a modest League 2 budget. Supporter indifference is going to be a big factor in “football man” KT succeeding in being “developer man”.   Supporters need to find their voices.

That such an “error” affecting NTFC’s leasehold land should have been made or allowed to have occurred is an example (there are plenty more but that is for another day) of the incompetence of the Council.  Whether there is more to this than gross negligence is for the police investigation to determine but it is certainly questionable. 

What seems to have escaped many is that CDNL has 2 long leases from the Council – the first from the eastern edge of the running track to the back of the East Stand (which covers the area that is already part of the NTFC lease) and the second is a much larger area which encompasses the North Car Park, the overflow car park, the refuse tip and land going towards Franklin Gardens.  It looks to me that having permanently lost the South Car Park our other car parks are at risk.  Traffic chaos on match-days could be the outcome.  The leases were acquired by KT/DB from the Liquidators of CDNL for a paltry sum of £170,000.  Again, the Council were utterly inept in ever allowing this to happen. 

What I am saying, and this is where I would disagree fundamentally with Beds, is that the Council must bear great responsibility for the present dismal situation.  On the plus side the Council is listening and the current Leader and CEO are not tainted with any responsibility for the mess they have inherited. But my concern is that, as we may be seeing, the interests of development and profit reign supreme.  It is more likely than not that we will see a re-run of the 2013 structure under which the Council receives a significant capital sum for selling the freehold to CDNL (it was to be £6.5 million previously) and a share in the plot sales above an agreed figure (in 2013 it was to be 50% of the gross above £110 million).  The result will be the Council recovering the “missing millions” plus, plus, KT & DB will make millions probably by selling on CDNL with planning permission for a very big sum and, if we are lucky, we may get a completed but totally unsatisfactory East Stand.  All the signs are that our owners won’t spend a penny on doing what they committed to doing in 2015 without “satisfactory planning permission” for the wider development.  This may well be well into the future – years not months.  Draw your own conclusions on the owners acting in the best interests of the club.  So far they have taken the Council to the cleaners and the club is burdened with debt and owners unwilling to invest in its infrastructure. 

On the land behind the East Stand to the middle of the athletics track, I suspect that in the final analysis KT/DB are not that concerned.  Their eyes are on the wider development and the prospects of big profits.  The winners will be KT/DB and the Council, the losers NTFC, future owners, supporters and generations of supporters to come, that is if we have a club to support.

Stand up and fight.
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« Reply #25182 on: July 20, 2019, 08:14:13 am »

May I suggest that rather than ask what the Trust is doing consider what you can do for the Trust whatever your work and other commitments may be. 
All the Trust directors have job and family commitments as well.

Barring getting involved in any protests etc on match days, and paying a sub into the Trust, very little as I cover the whole of the south of England and very rarely am I based locally during the week.

I think the Trust are doing a great job in making these statements, but there never seems to be any plan of action after them. Hopefully this meeting will change that.
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« Reply #25183 on: July 23, 2019, 09:56:52 am »

Have the Trust formally invited KT or any NTFC board members/hierarchy to Thursday's meeting?

I appreciate it's an open meeting but would be nice to find some common ground for all involved, especially with NBC members attending...

Even if invites were sent to the club & declined, at least it would show the Trust are trying to collectively move forward with the club...rather than the split it feels like there is at present.
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« Reply #25184 on: July 23, 2019, 11:42:21 am »

May I suggest that rather than ask what the Trust is doing consider what you can do for the Trust whatever your work and other commitments may be.

Purleaseee don't bring that kind of attitude on to the forum, this is one of the reasons why many people won't sign up for the trust.


Lets bang it into perspective....

"Rather than ask what the trust is doing"

"Consider what you can do for the trust"

Now why on earth would someone want to do anything for the trust if they don't know what the trust are doing?

  • Would you donate to a charity without knowing or asking what it is for? NOPE
  • Would you donate to a charity of whom people imply that it's wrong to ask what they are doing? NOPE

Pure snobbery at its finest, the trust is not Area 51, if someone wants to ask what the trust are doing, they are more than welcome to do so, the trust is not going to win people over and grow when there are Nincompoops implying that asking what they are doing is out of order.


The trust is not the Queens trust or royalty.


I remember when people used to ask what the club is doing with the councils £10 million, i would always tell them they are a disgrace for even asking and to just let the people quietly sneak the £10 million away.  Roll Eyes  Roll Eyes  Roll Eyes  Roll Eyes  Roll Eyes  Roll Eyes  Roll Eyes  Roll Eyes
« Last Edit: July 23, 2019, 11:46:40 am by Lukey » Report Spam   Logged

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« Reply #25185 on: July 23, 2019, 12:33:57 pm »

Purleaseee don't bring that kind of attitude on to the forum, this is one of the reasons why many people won't sign up for the trust.


Lets bang it into perspective....

"Rather than ask what the trust is doing"

"Consider what you can do for the trust"

Now why on earth would someone want to do anything for the trust if they don't know what the trust are doing?

  • Would you donate to a charity without knowing or asking what it is for? NOPE
  • Would you donate to a charity of whom people imply that it's wrong to ask what they are doing? NOPE

Pure snobbery at its finest, the trust is not Area 51, if someone wants to ask what the trust are doing, they are more than welcome to do so, the trust is not going to win people over and grow when there are Nincompoops implying that asking what they are doing is out of order.


The trust is not the Queens trust or royalty.


I remember when people used to ask what the club is doing with the councils £10 million, i would always tell them they are a disgrace for even asking and to just let the people quietly sneak the £10 million away.  Roll Eyes  Roll Eyes  Roll Eyes  Roll Eyes  Roll Eyes  Roll Eyes  Roll Eyes  Roll Eyes

Who is Cynthia BB in yr signature?
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« Reply #25186 on: July 23, 2019, 14:42:01 pm »

Purleaseee don't bring that kind of attitude on to the forum, this is one of the reasons why many people won't sign up for the trust.


Lets bang it into perspective....

"Rather than ask what the trust is doing"

"Consider what you can do for the trust"

Now why on earth would someone want to do anything for the trust if they don't know what the trust are doing?

  • Would you donate to a charity without knowing or asking what it is for? NOPE
  • Would you donate to a charity of whom people imply that it's wrong to ask what they are doing? NOPE

Pure snobbery at its finest, the trust is not Area 51, if someone wants to ask what the trust are doing, they are more than welcome to do so, the trust is not going to win people over and grow when there are Nincompoops implying that asking what they are doing is out of order.


The trust is not the Queens trust or royalty.


I remember when people used to ask what the club is doing with the councils £10 million, i would always tell them they are a disgrace for even asking and to just let the people quietly sneak the £10 million away.  Roll Eyes  Roll Eyes  Roll Eyes  Roll Eyes  Roll Eyes  Roll Eyes  Roll Eyes  Roll Eyes
It's quite easy really
It's basically two organisations  going head to head, one  has its main raison d'etre in gaining vast riches from land that surrounds the football club which is conveniently used to facilitate this enterprise from our local council. 
The others are a trust that were set up to help our football clubs future growth and be there every time our club has been run into the ground.
You're perfectly entitled to back whoever you want.
Ask your question of the trust and they will answer it, asked it of Thomas like I did via a radio station and you'll know why I fully back the trust to be the organisation to finally get our club off the bones of its arse.
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« Reply #25187 on: July 23, 2019, 15:12:10 pm »

It's quite easy really
It's basically two organisations  going head to head, one  has its main raison d'etre in gaining vast riches from land that surrounds the football club which is conveniently used to facilitate this enterprise from our local council. 
The others are a trust that were set up to help our football clubs future growth and be there every time our club has been run into the ground.
You're perfectly entitled to back whoever you want.
Ask your question of the trust and they will answer it, asked it of Thomas like I did via a radio station and you'll know why I fully back the trust to be the organisation to finally get our club off the bones of its arse.
Are you going to the Open Forum, Beds? Would be interested to see what the Trust says and how that aligns with what you think needs to be done.
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« Reply #25188 on: July 23, 2019, 16:34:36 pm »

I wasn't asking what the trust does,  I was saying there should be no issue with someone who does ask what they do, rather than telling him do something for the trust instead of asking.
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« Reply #25189 on: July 24, 2019, 17:37:09 pm »

Where else to be on a summer's evening:

https://www.facebook.com/129995820357802/posts/2622121541145205/
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« Reply #25190 on: July 24, 2019, 18:32:53 pm »


Is there aircon? .....  Grin
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« Reply #25191 on: July 24, 2019, 18:48:30 pm »

Is there aircon? .....  Grin
Yes there is  Cheesy
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« Reply #25192 on: July 24, 2019, 19:07:53 pm »

You will get a better quality of beer, in the Crown And Cush.
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« Reply #25193 on: July 25, 2019, 15:00:05 pm »

Unfortuneately I have only just seen the announcement that Cllr Nunn is attending tonights Trust meeting with fellow Cllrs.

It is too late a notice for me to attend but I hope some more local fans make the effort to quiz the representatives of NBC
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« Reply #25194 on: July 25, 2019, 15:41:56 pm »

I look forward to reading the report.

Ask good questions.

Alex.
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« Reply #25195 on: July 26, 2019, 09:20:33 am »

As per Twitter report, absolutely nothing we didn't already know #stalemate

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Evening all. A little change of scenery tonight. I'm not at The Guildhall, but at Kingsley Park WMC.

This isn't a jolly though (though the air con is welcome).

NBC leader Jonathan Nunn is set to discuss the latest on the East Stand at Sixfields with #NTFC fans.

I don't intend to live tweet the whole thing, but if anything of interest crops up I shall tweet it out.

Council leader Jonathan Nunn says that the council's stance is that they want the East Stand built before discussions about any wider development can take place.

Jonathan Nunn: "It was the council's ambition that CDNL was closed and the leases were returned to us. We even tried to buy back the leases, and that would have been our preference."

County Developments Northampton Ltd (CDNL) was previously owned by former owner David Cardoza, but new owner Kelvin Thomas and his business partner David Bower purchased the shareholding of the company and then put it through a CVA.

Should make it clear, there are no representatives from Northampton Town Football Club at this meeting. Judging by a tweet from the supporters' trust, they weren't specifically invited but were 'welcome to attend'.

Jonathan Nunn says he doesn't know the value of the land behind the East Stand at Sixfields, but does say it would cost 'millions and millions' to remediate the land in order for it to be built on.

Jonathan Nunn: "I haven't seen any plans [for wider development]. That's not to say that plans aren't knocking about. I have made a point about not being involved in that."

That's the end of the segment with Jonathan Nunn. If I'm honest we didn't really learn a huge amount that hasn't been in the public domain already.
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« Reply #25196 on: July 26, 2019, 10:27:00 am »

The council need to stick to their stance, it's vital to the future of this football club.
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« Reply #25197 on: July 26, 2019, 12:11:15 pm »

https://twitter.com/ntfc_trust/status/1154710535038013440?s=20
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« Reply #25198 on: July 26, 2019, 12:33:42 pm »

Interesting spin here...

From the trust statement:
Quote
He also confirmed that he had personally not seen or discussed any plans for the east stand since David Bower and Kelvin Thomas purchased the club in 2015.

From James Averill's report:

Quote
"I haven't seen any plans [for wider development]. That's not to say that plans aren't knocking about. I have made a point about not being involved in that."

Same facts in play, very different inference from them.
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« Reply #25199 on: July 26, 2019, 14:31:31 pm »

No spin. You are conflating 2 separate matters.  I know because I was there last night. You were not but as usual you are trying to muddy the waters.

Jonathan Nunn was asked if he has seen and discussed any plans for the East Stand with KT and he replied he had not.  The reference to the wider development came up later as a separate issue from the East Stand. 

So, approaching 4 years after he took control of NTFC KT has not shown his plans or discussed them with the Leader of the Council.  I could expand on this but there is no need.  I think the conclusion to be drawn is obvious enough but I am happy to leave the mystery of KT’s plans and his intentions or rather lack of them as regards the future of NTFC to the wider body of supporters to decide on.
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