guest3338
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The whole catchment area thing Beds keeps rolling out makes me chuckle. Yes, the population has grown rapidly but a lot of it comes from people who've moved to the area for cheap housing and easy access to other places. Those that are interested in football already have a team to support and the aforementioned easy access means they aren't looking for a new team to support because they can keep on supporting whoever they already support! For example, a relative of mine through marriage has recently moved to the area and he still goes to see Norwich! A mate also moved to the area, lived here for 10 years before moving away again and never once even set foot in the town centre. He had no interest in football so wouldn't have come to see the Cobblers anyway, but the lack of engagement with the town or community as a whole says it all - for many people it's just a place to live.
I'm with Beds on this regarding the potential support base. It's not about dyed in the wool supporters of other teams who happen to live in town it's about the population as a whole, both in the town and the surrounding areas. Lots of those people who just live here for the 'cheap housing stock' as you put it will have families born here who know no different. For them it will be home. Engage them with a modicum of success and you would see gates going up (capacity allowing). Retain that success alongside a progressive club and the support would not drift away again like previously when we had momentum.
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1971cobbler
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The whole catchment area thing Beds keeps rolling out makes me chuckle. Yes, the population has grown rapidly but a lot of it comes from people who've moved to the area for cheap housing and easy access to other places. Those that are interested in football already have a team to support and the aforementioned easy access means they aren't looking for a new team to support because they can keep on supporting whoever they already support! For example, a relative of mine through marriage has recently moved to the area and he still goes to see Norwich! A mate also moved to the area, lived here for 10 years before moving away again and never once even set foot in the town centre. He had no interest in football so wouldn't have come to see the Cobblers anyway, but the lack of engagement with the town or community as a whole says it all - for many people it's just a place to live.
The last paragraph raises a wider point re engagement and the link between the football club and the wider Northampton community. It is not that much of a stretch of the imagination to suggest the malaise that Northampton has been suffering from for at least ten years now (probably more!) can then link to the same stagnation of the Cobblers. In my opinion, the two go hand in hand although, as mentioned previously in this thread, having a successful team on the pitch always improves things! I noted recently that the Town Centre BID team were unsuccessful in being awarded any of the slice of the £25m set aside by the Government for regeneration of historic town centres in the East Midlands. For info, Kettering were successful with their proposal.
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Melbourne Cobbler
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I'm with Beds on this regarding the potential support base. It's not about dyed in the wool supporters of other teams who happen to live in town it's about the population as a whole, both in the town and the surrounding areas. Lots of those people who just live here for the 'cheap housing stock' as you put it will have families born here who know no different. For them it will be home. Engage them with a modicum of success and you would see gates going up (capacity allowing). Retain that success alongside a progressive club and the support would not drift away again like previously when we had momentum.
Spot on R, I think most of us would agree with that. This debate is about raising the finances as the catalyst for all the other stuff and then being accused of sticking your tongue up KTs backside if you question the bullsh1t
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Not a real supporter but unelected chair of the Northampton Town Honorary Supporters Club. (Please note: any opinions given may not necessarily be shared by proper supporters. In incidents of conflict the views of real supporters shall take precedence).
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Horsham Cobbler
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Thanks Melbourne, it is novel to have 'facts' instead of repetitive ideoligy!!!
………………………. and also refreshing.
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guest3338
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Spot on R, I think most of us would agree with that. This debate is about raising the finances as the catalyst for all the other stuff and then being accused of sticking your tongue up KTs backside if you question the bullsh1t
I'm hearing you Melbourne, those figures on the back of a fag packet dont work for me either.
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Tabasco Kid
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Youre wasting your time mate. The hill wailer does not respond to requests for "back up" information, instead he will move on to polluting yet another thread with his tedious bullsh1t.
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Were in the pipe 5 by 5.
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Deepcut Cobbler
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Has the 'Hill Wailer' ever occupied his position or was that all flannel as well?
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“They shall grow not old as we that are left grow old: Age shall not weary them, nor the years condemn. At the going down of the sun and in the morning We will remember them.” Laurence Binyon
The Hotelend Grand National Sweepstake Champion 2009
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Tabasco Kid
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Has the 'Hill Wailer' ever occupied his position or was that all flannel as well?
I have no idea mate. I prefer to view the games from my faded seat.
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Were in the pipe 5 by 5.
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DrillingCobbler
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Melbourne's position pretty much is exactly where Im at. Current owners/history aside. I sincerely believe that for us to challenge properly for the championship, not just getting there but staying there, would cost in the region of 20-50million quid. Spent across both infrastructure and players. The debate as to where to spend money first is separate and another entirely different discussion! Im in favour of fan ownership...on the proviso that other clubs (not just the odd one) follow suit. For that to happen, the EFL would have to make significant changes. Id love to see a 51/49 model introduced across the board of the 72 members clubs, and phased in so for clubs to comply they would have to be in that position by x year. Realistically, it would probably take 10 years but why not start the process, because if it was started it would quickly put off the Steve Dales of this world from getting involved with football clubs. I agree with Beds ref catchment area. I've always seen us as being a huge sleeping giant. But to wake us up, I think would cost alot more than Beds thinks it will. 20 million minimum to get things going, build some momentum, find some new fans etc. But for that to happen we'd need a sugar daddy with cash on the hip, and who is not bothered about 'investment' when it comes to a football club. In it for kudos, ego, tax evasion ( ), whatever. Think the Posh chairman, someone like him (but richer) would be ideal!
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Vintage Cobbler
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Some interesting numbers being trotted out to rubbish Beds which is unkind. I agree with his sentiments if not his figures.
You can quote figures from the large majority of EFL clubs and the conclusion has to be the financial performance generally throughout the leagues is awful, the stuff of nightmares for the likes of Melbourne.
The latest figures available are for the 2017-2018 season and looking up the EFL ladder only 2 clubs in the Championship reported operating and pre-tax profits, Burton and Hull City. The losses of the other clubs are substantial. The average income for clubs in the 3 divisions is Championship £31m, L1 £6M and L2 £4m. In L1, which is probably the highest level NTFC can expect to achieve in the near future pre-tax losses doubled to £81m which equates to an average loss of £3.375,000 per club. One other interesting and worrying statistic is that the wages to revenue ration in L1 was a frightening 94% and in L2 78%. Not healthy reading.
That is why I posted a week ago that to my mind the ownership model of the private limited company owned by an individual or same number of individuals is broken and needs to be changed.
As a club NTFC could and should make more of its catchment area. The club attracts about 2% of the population to home matches and that is dismal. Of course, success on the pitch has to be a critical factor in improving numbers but any success has to be sustained with much better infrastructure and planning. Then the people of Northampton will become more interested, newcomers included. Part of achieving that has to be much better connections with and participation with Northampton residents and Northampton businesses. Down the road at MK the owner there is embarking on a bold venture to converting National Bowl into a training facility with 12 pitches and a community hub for use 365 days a year. This from an owner who has incurred losses twice that of our owners. Meanwhile at Moulton College……………………………..
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guest3293
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Hold on, are you telling me that BedsCobb doesn't have a clue?
Well blow me down.
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DrillingCobbler
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Some interesting numbers being trotted out to rubbish Beds which is unkind. I agree with his sentiments if not his figures.
You can quote figures from the large majority of EFL clubs and the conclusion has to be the financial performance generally throughout the leagues is awful, the stuff of nightmares for the likes of Melbourne.
The latest figures available are for the 2017-2018 season and looking up the EFL ladder only 2 clubs in the Championship reported operating and pre-tax profits, Burton and Hull City. The losses of the other clubs are substantial. The average income for clubs in the 3 divisions is Championship £31m, L1 £6M and L2 £4m. In L1, which is probably the highest level NTFC can expect to achieve in the near future pre-tax losses doubled to £81m which equates to an average loss of £3.375,000 per club. One other interesting and worrying statistic is that the wages to revenue ration in L1 was a frightening 94% and in L2 78%. Not healthy reading.
That is why I posted a week ago that to my mind the ownership model of the private limited company owned by an individual or same number of individuals is broken and needs to be changed.
As a club NTFC could and should make more of its catchment area. The club attracts about 2% of the population to home matches and that is dismal. Of course, success on the pitch has to be a critical factor in improving numbers but any success has to be sustained with much better infrastructure and planning. Then the people of Northampton will become more interested, newcomers included. Part of achieving that has to be much better connections with and participation with Northampton residents and Northampton businesses. Down the road at MK the owner there is embarking on a bold venture to converting National Bowl into a training facility with 12 pitches and a community hub for use 365 days a year. This from an owner who has incurred losses twice that of our owners. Meanwhile at Moulton College……………………………..
Good post. Burton, complete one off fluke. They even managed to get there with JFH sowing the seeds! In all seriousness though, Im convinced that having arguably the best training facilities in the country means they can box way above their natural level, enabling them to bring in players looking 'at the long game' rather than the short term extra cash. I sat with JFH at the sponsors evening a couple of seasons back, he was on our table. I had a really long chat about his time at Burton and he couldn't make the point more forcefully that their training facilities gave them a huge advantage over other clubs. Hard to argue to be fair! With regards to Hull, parachute payments combined with chairman pulling the £ plug Id guess is the answer to that one!
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CobblerForever
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I apologise profusely to all those that will hate this post but as a Chartered Accountant it grinds away with me when financials are commented on so here we go;
MK Dons
MK Dons is a wholly owned subsidiary of Stadium MK Group Limited. There are cross-guarantees in place and letters of support have been lodged as appropriate.
Stadium MK Group Limited as at the time of it's last set of approved financial statements (June 30th 2018) had Net Assets of 73.578 million pounds sterling (sorry the pound figure on my keyboard isn't working - probably too upset). Following the year end (and not adjusted for in the figures already quoted) land with a net book value of 4.319 million pounds sterling was sold for 11 million pounds sterling.
Conclusion = MK Dons are an in an enviable position financially.
PS The controlling and ultimate controlling party is considered to be Mr P Winkelman by virtue of his shareholding in Stadium MK Group Limited.
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Melbourne Cobbler
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I apologise profusely to all those that will hate this post but as a Chartered Accountant it grinds away with me when financials are commented on so here we go;
MK Dons
MK Dons is a wholly owned subsidiary of Stadium MK Group Limited. There are cross-guarantees in place and letters of support have been lodged as appropriate.
Stadium MK Group Limited as at the time of it's last set of approved financial statements (June 30th 2018) had Net Assets of 73.578 million pounds sterling (sorry the pound figure on my keyboard isn't working - probably too upset). Following the year end (and not adjusted for in the figures already quoted) land with a net book value of 4.319 million pounds sterling was sold for 11 million pounds sterling.
Conclusion = MK Dons are an in an enviable position financially.
PS The controlling and ultimate controlling party is considered to be Mr P Winkelman by virtue of his shareholding in Stadium MK Group Limited.
If only we had some land to sell to wipe out our losses? As a side note despite the bad news about MKs financial position that is one of the funniest posts I have read on here. A chartered accountant with a pound sign that doesn’t work must be somewhat frustrating and inconvenient?
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« Last Edit: September 20, 2019, 15:20:30 pm by Melbourne Cobbler »
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Not a real supporter but unelected chair of the Northampton Town Honorary Supporters Club. (Please note: any opinions given may not necessarily be shared by proper supporters. In incidents of conflict the views of real supporters shall take precedence).
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EB Claret
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If only we had some land to sell to wipe out our losses?
KT says that all proceeds from land developments will go to the football club, is that true? After years of reading peoples views on the man I still have no idea. Safe to assume all (any) proceeds will not be on the same scale as at MK, b*st@rds!
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DrillingCobbler
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KT says that all proceeds from land developments will go to the football club, is that true? After years of reading peoples views on the man I still have no idea. Safe to assume all (any) proceeds will not be on the same scale as at MK, b*st@rds!
I think he said 'would benefit the football club and the wider community as a whole' or something like that...
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EB Claret
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I think he said 'would benefit the football club and the wider community as a whole' or something like that...
Correct, benefit was the word he used.
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Melbourne Cobbler
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This whole thread has taken a surreal twist for me. Truth be told despite being described as a so called “expert” I don’t understand our own accounts that well. That’s why I employ 2 firms of accountants, one in Northampton, one in Sydney (a bit like the Trotter brothers, London, Paris, Peckham) Following Forevers revelation regarding his misfortune I am absolutely convinced he is my accountant? Thats not you AR is it? I’ve been frantically checking my emails and can’t find a pound sign anywhere? If it is, you need to change your keyboard back to UK dopey.
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« Last Edit: September 20, 2019, 15:50:17 pm by Melbourne Cobbler »
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Not a real supporter but unelected chair of the Northampton Town Honorary Supporters Club. (Please note: any opinions given may not necessarily be shared by proper supporters. In incidents of conflict the views of real supporters shall take precedence).
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BedsCobb
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KT says that all proceeds from land developments will go to the football club, is that true? After years of reading peoples views on the man I still have no idea. Safe to assume all (any) proceeds will not be on the same scale as at MK, b*st@rds!
I've had a direct response from Thomas on a local radio station when I asked if the land would benefit the enabling of the clubs infrastructure, to which he replied that the land was privately owned and separate from the club. It was a very garbled response but that was the jist of it as I understood it.
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BedsCobb
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I fully believe our club will one day soon become a competent challenging L1 outfit with real Championship ambition, obviously it would require the present owners to sell, but I dont buy into Melbourne or Drillings belief that you have to start with £30m to lump at it. A decade of steady year on year growth that's well planned, structured, involving everyone and everything at hand, would prove to be far more long term beneficial than a consortium or rich individual lumping 30 large at his new plaything.
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