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Redevelopment Closer Than Ever?

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Another Pedj
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« Reply #26560 on: February 25, 2020, 18:41:49 pm »

Quite lot of work is going on is all I can say.  The need is to be as prepared as is possible.  You do realise that KT is still trying to sell the club don't you?

Yes I am and as I have stated more than once ANY development would be fully whilst he is. Its upto someone to come up with a credible  alternative.
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« Reply #26561 on: February 25, 2020, 18:45:13 pm »

There is absolutely no reason at all why KT and the board cannot update everyone on why the East Stand has not progressed.
People have the right to know because they took the club over saying they would complete it . They haven’t done so and it’s a mess .
The football club lacks leadership and purpose . We are drifting and no one seems to really care apart from the supporters .

Completely right unless that is there is nothing to report because KT has not progressed anything beyond his "conversations" with George. I think we can work that one out.
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« Reply #26562 on: February 26, 2020, 17:42:15 pm »

It will fetch what it is worth.  Someone may be disappointed!!
Bet it doesn’t and yes they will.
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« Reply #26563 on: February 27, 2020, 10:41:42 am »

It will fetch what it is worth.  Someone may be disappointed!!

No it will go for whatever the owners will acceot. Buyers cannot set the price only offer.
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« Reply #26564 on: February 27, 2020, 18:45:25 pm »

Quite lot of work is going on is all I can say.  The need is to be as prepared as is possible.  You do realise that KT is still trying to sell the club don't you?
Of course he is but only to someone that will pay off the debt of the board .
There are some proper time wasters sniffing around I can tell you that .
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« Reply #26565 on: February 27, 2020, 18:50:49 pm »

No it will go for whatever the owners will acceot. Buyers cannot set the price only offer.

This is correct.......if he put it up for sale for a pound, with the £5.5m written off there would be a queue round the block. If he wants £5m then there won't be any/many takers. The club has "been up for sale" for more than 18 months hasn't it?

Also to point out that David Bower is the money man, its mostly his money that is tied up in the club, Kelvin is just the chairman.

That said, if there's one thing I trust Kelvin to do, its ensure that a sale is only made to the right people, ie someone with money behind them and could take us on to the next level, not someone who'll offer him a quick buck and then come in and asset strip.
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« Reply #26566 on: February 27, 2020, 19:59:24 pm »

Pedi, dont cloud the issue by asking for facts  Grin
As for the German example  which one is that ? The one for the team topping the League or the one in 2nd place ? Both run differently I believe.
Also fan ownership in the UK, nicely cherry picked the teams in Scotland, ignoring the likes of Wycombe,  Portsmouth and Wimbledon. 

Portsmouth is no longer fan owned, they sold to an American venture capital company in 2017
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« Reply #26567 on: February 27, 2020, 20:23:41 pm »

And a 70 year old American businessman took over Wycombe last week.
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« Reply #26568 on: February 27, 2020, 21:13:50 pm »

And a 70 year old American businessman took over Wycombe last week.

Oh well if you can't beat 'em, there must be plenty more wealthy Americans looking to get into Soccer.
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« Reply #26569 on: February 28, 2020, 02:12:26 am »

St Edds' that was my point, Portsmouth are no longer fan owned neither are Wycombe. The new owner of Wycombe has got £2.2m of debt to clear up, invest another £1m into the running of the Club plus he has to guarantee the £150,000 per year lease of the ground for 10 or more years, plus another amount of money needs to be found to  spend on the ground that was neglected during fan ownership.
Wimbledon have struggled to find the money to build their new Stadium and might by open to the idea of outside investment.
 Not every thing is rosey in Fan Owned world.
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« Reply #26570 on: February 28, 2020, 04:44:42 am »

St Edds' that was my point, Portsmouth are no longer fan owned neither are Wycombe. The new owner of Wycombe has got £2.2m of debt to clear up, invest another £1m into the running of the Club plus he has to guarantee the £150,000 per year lease of the ground for 10 or more years, plus another amount of money needs to be found to  spend on the ground that was neglected during fan ownership.
Wimbledon have struggled to find the money to build their new Stadium and might by open to the idea of outside investment.
 Not every thing is rosey in Fan Owned world.

Sorry, misread your post.

I don't think fan owned is the way forward either, especially the state our stadium is in. To get this club to start moving forward is going to require an owner with very deep pockets.
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« Reply #26571 on: February 28, 2020, 06:43:27 am »


I don't think fan owned is the way forward either, especially the state our stadium is in. To get this club to start moving forward is going to require an owner with very deep pockets.

Yep.. That’s the bottom line.

It’s a simple fact of life.
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« Reply #26572 on: February 28, 2020, 07:44:25 am »

Yet relying on the deep pockets of a philanthropic investor is?
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« Reply #26573 on: February 28, 2020, 10:38:10 am »

“To get this club moving forward is going to require an owner with deep pockets” says St Edds

But we do have owners with deep pockets.  According to none other than KT himself proof of funds of £11 million was provided to the Council in November 2015.  I would expect that is part only of the wealth. The bottom line is that our owners do not have any intention of spending their money on the club’s infrastructure.  They never have.  The latest example is the safe-standing debacle when 85% of those canvassed voted in favour. 

At the present time one third of the EFL L1 & 2 are up for sale.  NTFC is included in that number.  Championship club owners are demanding more tv money and some threaten a Premier B league breakaway.  The risk of that happening is increasing with a large number of Championship club owners from overseas and with their eyes on the Sky tv money riches.  They don’t give a dame about the EFL lower divisions.

The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting a different result.  Apply that to NTFC and those that still dream of a sugar daddy owner appearing.  The chances of that happening are extremely remote.  There is much more chance of a McRitchie arriving.

Therefore, community ownership has to be on the agenda.  tcobb points to the example of Wycombe with the new private owner inheriting £2.2 million of debt.  Well, our private owners have been responsible for accumulating over £5 million of debt and not a bean has been spent by them on the East Stand in the process.  No further comment needed.  Exeter is 100% community owned, has no debt and has completed a new stand.  North of the border Motherwell is community owned and has no debt. Hearts is also community owned and has an infrastructure project in progress funded by supporters.

 



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« Reply #26574 on: February 28, 2020, 13:36:15 pm »

“To get this club moving forward is going to require an owner with deep pockets” says St Edds

But we do have owners with deep pockets.  According to none other than KT himself proof of funds of £11 million was provided to the Council in November 2015.  I would expect that is part only of the wealth. The bottom line is that our owners do not have any intention of spending their money on the club’s infrastructure.  They never have.  The latest example is the safe-standing debacle when 85% of those canvassed voted in favour. 

At the present time one third of the EFL L1 & 2 are up for sale.  NTFC is included in that number.  Championship club owners are demanding more tv money and some threaten a Premier B league breakaway.  The risk of that happening is increasing with a large number of Championship club owners from overseas and with their eyes on the Sky tv money riches.  They don’t give a dame about the EFL lower divisions.

The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting a different result.  Apply that to NTFC and those that still dream of a sugar daddy owner appearing.  The chances of that happening are extremely remote.  There is much more chance of a McRitchie arriving.

Therefore, community ownership has to be on the agenda.  tcobb points to the example of Wycombe with the new private owner inheriting £2.2 million of debt.  Well, our private owners have been responsible for accumulating over £5 million of debt and not a bean has been spent by them on the East Stand in the process.  No further comment needed.  Exeter is 100% community owned, has no debt and has completed a new stand.  North of the border Motherwell is community owned and has no debt. Hearts is also community owned and has an infrastructure project in progress funded by supporters.

 




My comment would be this. If it were possible would you encourage the club to take on a couple of million of debt to develop the ground, offering itself as a guarantor against the loan? You see it’s not just about the investment, it’s the circumstances in which it is obtained? You stated doing the same thing over and over again and expecting a different result is insanity? Well couldn’t that accusation be levelled at clubs continually getting into ridiculously unmanageable debt? You have given multiple examples of clubs to aspire to. I would be interested to see the true financial position and outlook of all of them before I was reassured? It has to be said there will be examples of success using the strategies you suggest? It’s all about probabilities and the reason-abilities of any forecasts that make the proposals valid? The reality is that any true financial expert will tell you that the vast majority of EFL clubs are currently in a serious or critical financial position that threatens their existence? That is a fact and it is undisputed.
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« Reply #26575 on: February 28, 2020, 14:42:33 pm »

I recall you saying a few months back that the club had been obtained by KT/DB under false pretences given the understanding reached with NBC in 2015 and the £4 million ring fenced etc. for the East Stand and its completion. All that has happened in the many years since demonstrates that our owners misled the Council and supporters.  Either you agree with that view or not but now you seem in the midst of your other unintelligible business man speak to be moving the goalposts with your usual private enterprise mantra. What I am saying is that the business model for NTFC and others is broken.  It needs to be updated and replaced. Ownership of the club needs to be placed under the control of the community, not an anonymous offshore, opaque tax haven company. It should not be allowed but the EFL is weak and hopeless.  Ask Bury.

I give up on the current owners. They have disappointed us and will continue to do so. The pity is that some continue to believe that KT is the answer to a maiden’s prayer.  One day that may realise that he is not.  The front man for the money man Bower, KT in particular has run out of credibility and run out of road.

I am suggesting an alternative business model.  I think it is the right way forward.
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« Reply #26576 on: February 28, 2020, 15:43:16 pm »

I recall you saying a few months back that the club had been obtained by KT/DB under false pretences given the understanding reached with NBC in 2015 and the £4 million ring fenced etc. for the East Stand and its completion. All that has happened in the many years since demonstrates that our owners misled the Council and supporters.  Either you agree with that view or not but now you seem in the midst of your other unintelligible business man speak to be moving the goalposts with your usual private enterprise mantra. What I am saying is that the business model for NTFC and others is broken.  It needs to be updated and replaced. Ownership of the club needs to be placed under the control of the community, not an anonymous offshore, opaque tax haven company. It should not be allowed but the EFL is weak and hopeless.  Ask Bury.

I give up on the current owners. They have disappointed us and will continue to do so. The pity is that some continue to believe that KT is the answer to a maiden’s prayer.  One day that may realise that he is not.  The front man for the money man Bower, KT in particular has run out of credibility and run out of road.

I am suggesting an alternative business model.  I think it is the right way forward.


[/quot

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« Reply #26577 on: February 28, 2020, 17:12:06 pm »

BBS, I posted the other day work is going on.
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« Reply #26578 on: February 28, 2020, 17:20:35 pm »

BBS, I posted the other day work is going on.
We are told by KT and NBC that work is 'progressing'!

Who do we believe?
Who will show an end product first?
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« Reply #26579 on: February 28, 2020, 17:39:14 pm »

There is no connection between the two.

KT is in year 5 of "positive discussions" with the Council and you must draw your own conclusions on where they may be or not.

Outside of that work goes as best as be can be to be ready for what may lie ahead.  I cannot elaborate on that.
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