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Redevelopment Closer Than Ever?

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Author Topic: Redevelopment Closer Than Ever?  (Read 1820499 times)
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« Reply #26900 on: July 24, 2020, 12:51:04 pm »

The original deal was not dodgy, it was a good deal all laid out and structured accordingly. Where it went wrong is that the Council forwarded sums of money to the Club before the relevant parts of the deal had been completed. Before we knew it we'd had most of the money forwarded but very little work done.
The opportunity was then therefore the money to be squirrelled away.....


Ergo, it was a dodgy deal!  Grin

I still think it was the loan was the right thing to do in principle (from a taxpayer's perspective and not just as a Cobbler's fan) but it was poorly administered and rushed through without proper process being followed. I won't comment on why I believe that was.
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« Reply #26901 on: July 24, 2020, 15:14:18 pm »

I wonder who’s feeding Ms Stone with the gritty questions  Grin
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« Reply #26902 on: July 24, 2020, 15:38:54 pm »

I wonder who’s feeding Ms Stone with the gritty questions  Grin

When will we hear something concrete?
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« Reply #26903 on: July 24, 2020, 16:24:05 pm »

I wonder who’s feeding Ms Stone with the gritty questions  Grin
[/quote

I heard he has a gravely voice.
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« Reply #26904 on: July 24, 2020, 16:25:14 pm »

When will we hear something concrete?
Pound to a penny the Masons are involved.
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« Reply #26905 on: July 24, 2020, 16:36:28 pm »

Cant see why any deals cannot progress, the Council will look at the deals and report back. This just smacks of the Trust continuing its spat with the Club.
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« Reply #26906 on: July 24, 2020, 18:36:04 pm »

Outstanding performance from councillor Hadland. Committed to nothing measurable, no identifiable standards and no benchmarks to be accountable for? 6 questions fielded with responses completely open to interpretation. Political stonewalling at its best and another fruitful evening of saying nothing, achieving nothing, and progressing nothing, local government at its finest.

However, rest assured that the rate payers of Northampton will scrutinise the performance of the council and respond accordingly to any actions or commitments that are deemed inadequate or inappropriate? Whilst understanding that any agreements must be mutually beneficial, they will insist that those responsible display a relevant amount of competency and achieve a satisfactory outcome to reasonably foreseeable levels. Not withstanding the difficult nature of negotiations, whilst it is understood there are many complexities to be addressed any outcome should be in the best interests of the rate payers wherever reasonably practicable. How am I doing, do you think I could get a job with council because I could write pages and pages of this crap?
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« Reply #26907 on: July 24, 2020, 23:47:43 pm »

“There was no commitment given in the MoU for the completion of the East Stand. In discussions with NBC, Kelvin Thomas and David Bower [club director] did make commitments at the time to build the East Stand but this was not part of the MoU or any formal binding agreement.”

Just to be clear on this for the umpteenth time. Had any legally binding commitment been sought to complete the stand, a valuation of millions would have been instantaneously slapped on a bankrupt second division club days from going out of business and we would have gone down the toilet? So councillor Hadland is suggesting a commitment was given that the owners wouldn’t formally agree to? Therefore it’s not a commitment, it’s more of an indication of intent subject to circumstance? So in other words completely worthless and irrelevant commentary. Let’s be honest the council sought some sort of vague assurance as political capital for use in pointless meetings such as the one under discussion, a sort of get out of jail free card to appease any criticism? If you want an example of how flexible, robust and subjective the due diligence and outcome protocols of the council are in its procedures and processes, it’s all here in this response? An organisation poorly equipped and often completely out of its depth in these circumstances as history has proved time and time again. When all said and done if the procedures and processes were robust enough the East Stand fiasco wouldn’t have occurred in the first place? In any event the same standards regarding due diligence would more than likely have been in place when the current owners took over the club as when the East Stand debacle occurred? That is unless they had completely rewritten the entire process to the appropriate standard between the 2 events? The proof is that the owners made a legally unenforceable “commitment” that was deemed acceptable and passed any due diligence tests in place when the club was handed over? Harsh because we would have gone down the toilet if draconian conditions were enforced. But proof that it’s probably the case that any insufficient standards exposed by the diligence are rectified and/or addressed at the whim and discretion of the council? How does that inspire confidence? Personally I’m sceptical but it’s only my opinion?

If this is not the case perhaps instead of responding with soundbites, generalisations and wasting everybody’s time Councillor Hadland could grow a backbone and publicly identify clear failure standards and identify who’s responsible for ensuring compliance? That way he makes himself accountable to the people he is supposed to represent and serve, but god forbid anyone at the council ever does that? Sorry but self serving, pointless bureaucrats make me fume. Talking of god, why he bothered with them is one of life’s great mysteries?
« Last Edit: July 25, 2020, 07:00:42 am by Melbourne Cobbler » Report Spam   Logged

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« Reply #26908 on: July 25, 2020, 09:09:49 am »

Melly, Which bits have you amended from the original?
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« Reply #26909 on: July 25, 2020, 09:17:20 am »

Melly, Which bits have you amended from the original?
usual spelling errors etc, can’t remember now. Am I going to get shouted at?
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« Reply #26910 on: July 25, 2020, 17:19:46 pm »

“There was no commitment given in the MoU for the completion of the East Stand. In discussions with NBC, Kelvin Thomas and David Bower [club director] did make commitments at the time to build the East Stand but this was not part of the MoU or any formal binding agreement.”

Just to be clear on this for the umpteenth time. Had any legally binding commitment been sought to complete the stand, a valuation of millions would have been instantaneously slapped on a bankrupt second division club days from going out of business and we would have gone down the toilet? So councillor Hadland is suggesting a commitment was given that the owners wouldn’t formally agree to? Therefore it’s not a commitment, it’s more of an indication of intent subject to circumstance? So in other words completely worthless and irrelevant commentary. Let’s be honest the council sought some sort of vague assurance as political capital for use in pointless meetings such as the one under discussion, a sort of get out of jail free card to appease any criticism? If you want an example of how flexible, robust and subjective the due diligence and outcome protocols of the council are in its procedures and processes, it’s all here in this response? An organisation poorly equipped and often completely out of its depth in these circumstances as history has proved time and time again. When all said and done if the procedures and processes were robust enough the East Stand fiasco wouldn’t have occurred in the first place? In any event the same standards regarding due diligence would more than likely have been in place when the current owners took over the club as when the East Stand debacle occurred? That is unless they had completely rewritten the entire process to the appropriate standard between the 2 events? The proof is that the owners made a legally unenforceable “commitment” that was deemed acceptable and passed any due diligence tests in place when the club was handed over? Harsh because we would have gone down the toilet if draconian conditions were enforced. But proof that it’s probably the case that any insufficient standards exposed by the diligence are rectified and/or addressed at the whim and discretion of the council? How does that inspire confidence? Personally I’m sceptical but it’s only my opinion?

If this is not the case perhaps instead of responding with soundbites, generalisations and wasting everybody’s time Councillor Hadland could grow a backbone and publicly identify clear failure standards and identify who’s responsible for ensuring compliance? That way he makes himself accountable to the people he is supposed to represent and serve, but god forbid anyone at the council ever does that? Sorry but self serving, pointless bureaucrats make me fume. Talking of god, why he bothered with them is one of life’s great mysteries?

Given the circumstances I would suggest verbal expressions of commitment was as good as the council were likely to get. At least the sentiments expressed would help with further discussions. What would you be writing on here if they rejected KT and co. for not getting binding contracts regarding the East Stand?
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« Reply #26911 on: July 25, 2020, 20:35:34 pm »

Not being critical of that, and said so.
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« Reply #26912 on: July 26, 2020, 03:42:09 am »

Given the circumstances I would suggest verbal expressions of commitment was as good as the council were likely to get. At least the sentiments expressed would help with further discussions. What would you be writing on here if they rejected KT and co. for not getting binding contracts regarding the East Stand?
To clarify what my post was about here is a recap. The reason we are in this mess regarding the ground is down to the councils procedures and processes. Had they had the correct checks and processes in place the money would never have disappeared in the first place. The whole outcome would have been completely different and we possibly wouldn’t have ended up with a 3 sided ground and on the brink and the rate payers wouldn’t have seen 10 million plus go down the tubes. Oh, and there wouldn’t have been a 5 year police investigation at the cost of a million either? Now you can blame various individuals and their nefarious activities if you wish but the bottom line is had the council managed the process properly it wouldn’t have played out that way? Fast forward 5 years and we are in the position of perhaps rectifying some of the damage? However since it involves the council, land and a deal involving the football club questions are rightfully being asked regarding the protections being afforded regarding the deal? And during the meeting when the very subject is crucially raised the whole town is served up that self serving, cliche ridden sanctimonious clap trap after all that’s gone on before? FFS Hadland is supposed to be serving the public? Open book and cards on the table. Frank, open and honest and absolutely nothing else will do, and if  other interested parties don’t want to play ball then the deal is off? Oh and Hadland should hang his head in shame!
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« Reply #26913 on: July 26, 2020, 07:02:01 am »

usual spelling errors etc, can’t remember now. Am I going to get shouted at?

No, it was a genuine question, I was trying to see what you had changed .  Wink
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« Reply #26914 on: July 26, 2020, 08:03:47 am »

No, it was a genuine question, I was trying to see what you had changed .  Wink
Definitely not my mind anyway. Thanks for not shouting, someone will.
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« Reply #26915 on: July 26, 2020, 09:11:11 am »

To clarify what my post was about here is a recap. The reason we are in this mess regarding the ground is down to the councils procedures and processes. Had they had the correct checks and processes in place the money would never have disappeared in the first place. The whole outcome would have been completely different and we possibly wouldn’t have ended up with a 3 sided ground and on the brink and the rate payers wouldn’t have seen 10 million plus go down the tubes. Oh, and there wouldn’t have been a 5 year police investigation at the cost of a million either? Now you can blame various individuals and their nefarious activities if you wish but the bottom line is had the council managed the process properly it wouldn’t have played out that way? Fast forward 5 years and we are in the position of perhaps rectifying some of the damage? However since it involves the council, land and a deal involving the football club questions are rightfully being asked regarding the protections being afforded regarding the deal? And during the meeting when the very subject is crucially raised the whole town is served up that self serving, cliche ridden sanctimonious clap trap after all that’s gone on before? FFS Hadland is supposed to be serving the public? Open book and cards on the table. Frank, open and honest and absolutely nothing else will do, and if  other interested parties don’t want to play ball then the deal is off? Oh and Hadland should hang his head in shame!


Interesting that you blame a possible crime on the victim. The council were at best naive in their dealings with Cardoza and at worst negligent but they were trying to do something good for NTFC. (Notwithstanding possible individual corruption that may or may not be proven in the future!). They should have insisted on directors guarantees. At the time the majority of the fans were ecstatic over their decision. I would not expect them in light of their experience to go to any great lengths to assist the club again particularly as the new owners have yet to fulfil their promise of a completed east stand.
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« Reply #26916 on: July 26, 2020, 10:19:47 am »


Interesting that you blame a possible crime on the victim. The council were at best naive in their dealings with Cardoza and at worst negligent but they were trying to do something good for NTFC. (Notwithstanding possible individual corruption that may or may not be proven in the future!). They should have insisted on directors guarantees. At the time the majority of the fans were ecstatic over their decision. I would not expect them in light of their experience to go to any great lengths to assist the club again particularly as the new owners have yet to fulfil their promise of a completed east stand.
And the number one anticipated protagonist turns up right on cue, I’ve just won a little bet with myself. Once again you have got yourself a little bit confused in your eagerness to have a pop. The victims my friend are not the council, the victims are the people of Northampton. It’s the rate payers and voters job to make sure they do their job, and they didn’t. You could have ridden a coach and horses through their due diligence and compliance process last time. It was conducted with Neolithic incompetence and with the professional management skills of a chimpanzee. You are always going to get individuals with suspect motives, you are always going to get businesses and people who over expose themselves. There are a 1,001 things that can go wrong when you are handing over £10 million, that’s why you have these processes and procedures in place. Phased draw downs, responsibility for paying suppliers and contractors directly, evidence and timelines for bank transfers the list goes on and on. All they had to do was their job and ensure the rate payers money NOT THEIR MONEY was used for the purpose intended. Even if someone was complicit in the council, dual and/or external approvals scrutiny processes could and should have offered some protection? But no, the incompetent w@nkers handed over the job lot without a by your leave or thank you. So yes I do blame the council, in the same way as I would blame a bank if they turned the alarms off and left the doors wide open all weekend and complained they were robbed. So I would like a bit of reassurance that they have it covered this time if you don’t mind. And before you put your foot in it again I am still a rate payer even though I am over here. Only a half wit would struggle with this concept, so have a little think and decide if you really want to include yourself in that group and I’ll decide if I want to go double or quits on that bet? Probably see you in about 10?
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« Reply #26917 on: July 26, 2020, 10:55:58 am »

Another suggestion to help you with your deliberations SOG. Perhaps the council as a collective didn’t want to help NTFC? Perhaps the majority of the council hated NTFC? Maybe there was just one individual in a position of influence who wanted to help NTFC and because there weren’t adequate safeguards in place the whole deal progressed unchecked? Who knows, but either way robust processes would have put a stop to it. Think about it?
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« Reply #26918 on: July 26, 2020, 11:49:17 am »

And the number one anticipated protagonist turns up right on cue, I’ve just won a little bet with myself. Once again you have got yourself a little bit confused in your eagerness to have a pop. The victims my friend are not the council, the victims are the people of Northampton. It’s the rate payers and voters job to make sure they do their job, and they didn’t. You could have ridden a coach and horses through their due diligence and compliance process last time. It was conducted with Neolithic incompetence and with the professional management skills of a chimpanzee. You are always going to get individuals with suspect motives, you are always going to get businesses and people who over expose themselves. There are a 1,001 things that can go wrong when you are handing over £10 million, that’s why you have these processes and procedures in place. Phased draw downs, responsibility for paying suppliers and contractors directly, evidence and timelines for bank transfers the list goes on and on. All they had to do was their job and ensure the rate payers money NOT THEIR MONEY was used for the purpose intended. Even if someone was complicit in the council, dual and/or external approvals scrutiny processes could and should have offered some protection? But no, the incompetent w@nkers handed over the job lot without a by your leave or thank you. So yes I do blame the council, in the same way as I would blame a bank if they turned the alarms off and left the doors wide open all weekend and complained they were robbed. So I would like a bit of reassurance that they have it covered this time if you don’t mind. And before you put your foot in it again I am still a rate payer even though I am over here. Only a half wit would struggle with this concept, so have a little think and decide if you really want to include yourself in that group and I’ll decide if I want to go double or quits on that bet? Probably see you in about 10?


 Grin Grin Grin
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« Reply #26919 on: July 26, 2020, 15:12:50 pm »

Blimey, you have some very strong feelings on this issue Melbourne.
As I understand it, the money came from central government and was only overseen by your council in town so the rate payers of Northampton will probably not have lost out in the way you suggest?
I have to agree with the sentiments of SOG. You seem to be coming from a starting position of everyone being a crook who will seize upon a weakness of others. If I saw someone drop a fiver outside our village shop I wouldnt pocket it, I'd tap them on the shoulder (well not at the moment you understand) and alert them. I'd like think most members of society would do similar rather than take advantage. Perhaps your background in business has made you particularly aware of weaknesses in the system and how aware you have to be not to have your pants pulled down, but I'll ask you this...if that same opportunity that presented itself to the previous owner and his cronies presented itself to you, would you have? If yes, who would you blame yourself or the beaurocrat who dropped the bollock, and who would you expect the police to go chasing?
You dont need to answer the question btw Melbourne, I know the answer from your generous offer of welcoming and riding with me in your neck of the woods, that alone convinces me you and your business associates wouldnt trouser 10 million and run off with it and blame others, you are a normal human being with feelings and standards of conformity . Dont forget either, if the faulty process which enabled them to do so had not been there and the monies were withdrawn in installments as was supposed to happen, do you really think those fellas would have played by the rules and every penny been accounted for to this day? I dont.
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