Redevelopment Closer Than Ever?

[claretparrot]

It’s a fair point about information in the public domain but I think if the trust were to publish all they have about the dealings between KT and the council it would be seen by KT as if they were pro actively trying to stop the deal by turning the fan base against KT.
There is nothing to stop ANYBODY FROM ASKING FOR A FOIR.
https://www.gov.uk/make-a-freedom-of-information-request/how-to-make-an-foi-request

https://www.northampton.gov.uk/homepage/574/freedom-of-information

https://www.northamptonshire.gov.uk/councilservices/council-and-democracy/transparency/information-policies/Pages/freedom-of-information.aspx

My understanding is that whilst you're right, and there is nothing to stop any of us making an FOIR, you need to know what to ask for and how to ask for it to get anything of value back.

Might have that wrong so happy to be corrected. If true though, it would make a lot more sense for what's already been disclosed to be put in the public domain. You can't reasonably be accused of trying to influence anyone for simply publicising factual information and letting people draw their own conclusions.

[Manwork04]

My understanding is that whilst you're right, and there is nothing to stop any of us making an FOIR, you need to know what to ask for and how to ask for it to get anything of value back.

Might have that wrong so happy to be corrected. If true though, it would make a lot more sense for what's already been disclosed to be put in the public domain. You can't reasonably be accused of trying to influence anyone for simply publicising factual information and letting people draw their own conclusions.

Whilst I completely agree you you, I don’t think Kelvin would see it like that.

[Shoemaker]

It seems to me there are grounds for concern.
It must all be out there somewhere.
It seems the trust know what’s going on and aren’t happy with what kelvin is proposing.
They don’t seem keen on telling the fans what they do know.
They’ve got form for that !!!

Am I close??

[Vintage Cobbler]

Actually, Shoemaker, nonsense.  Once again - I suggest you and others who want to know about the Trust's position on the East Stand and the wider redevelopment read the Trust's open letter to KT dated 14 August.  It also refers to NBC's position.  The letter can be seen on the Trust's website. 

[Terryfenwickatemyhamster]

If you believe an arbiter can act without authority as you state then there is no point to them because neither side in the process has to act on their verdict which is pretty much where we are at now. Council nil Club nil.

See below from dictionary.com:

I'd have said that,

Yours is a literal interpretation of 2a

Deepcuts is a fair interpretation of 1a. 


arbiter

[ ahr-bi-ter ]SHOW IPA

noun

1a person empowered to decide matters at issue; judge; umpire.

2a person who has the sole or absolute power of judging or determining.

But don't get me in on this one. Personally I think they should employ my dear old Mums way of dealing with it. "bang their heads together". 

[Manwork04]

https://www.ntfctrust.co.uk/news/article/trusts-open-letter-response-to-ntfc
No secrets.

[claretparrot]

Whilst I completely agree you you, I don’t think Kelvin would see it like that.

If you're right, I'd have thought that far more damage would be done by publishing very limited excerpts overlaid with interpretation/opinion/conjecture. I'm not having a pop, but just seems a bit of a contradiction.

I may have missed it - have the Trust said why they haven't published the FOI response(s) in full, to their members or the wider support? Are they allowed to do so, legally?

[Shoemaker]

Actually, Shoemaker, nonsense.  Once again - I suggest you and others who want to know about the Trust's position on the East Stand and the wider redevelopment read the Trust's open letter to KT dated 14 August.  It also refers to NBC's position.  The letter can be seen on the Trust's website. 

Thankyou
So that’s where we are now and the trust can confirm that other than these points there are no other grounds for concern that they may know of that they are not informing the fan base of.

[Deepcut Cobbler]

Actually, Shoemaker, nonsense.  Once again - I suggest you and others who want to know about the Trust's position on the East Stand and the wider redevelopment read the Trust's open letter to KT dated 14 August.  It also refers to NBC's position.  The letter can be seen on the Trust's website. 

Day Two of your 'How to win friends and influence people' course isn't going too well is it?

[Deepcut Cobbler]

https://www.ntfctrust.co.uk/news/article/trusts-open-letter-response-to-ntfc
No secrets.

Thanks Manny...

[BackOfTheNet]

Personally, I think the Trust are right not to put out the content of the FOI. If they put it out with a commentary/interpretation they'd risk putting an incorrect slant on it, thereby upsetting one or both of the other parties OR they put out a chunk of data without comment that would be entirely open to interpretation and with no surrounding information to contextualise it would most likely be misinterpreted.

Either way would be pretty unhelpful and would **** someone or other off!

[Vintage Cobbler]

Day Two of your 'How to win friends and influence people' course isn't going too well is it?

Very well thank you, Deepcut, especially in the face of some silly posts like yours above.

[Deepcut Cobbler]

Very well thank you, Deepcut, especially in the face of some silly posts like yours above.

Ignore them and be more sympathetic towards others who don't have the breadth of knowledge or understanding that you have been able to procure... 

[Manwork04]

Thanks Manny...

👍

[rebelspawn]

Personally, I think the Trust are right not to put out the content of the FOI. If they put it out with a commentary/interpretation they'd risk putting an incorrect slant on it, thereby upsetting one or both of the other parties OR they put out a chunk of data without comment that would be entirely open to interpretation and with no surrounding information to contextualise it would most likely be misinterpreted.

Either way would be pretty unhelpful and would **** someone or other off!

Except that that the club and trust are now publicly arguing about the content and interpretation with KT claiming that the trust have in fact misinterpreted things. All the while, the wider fanbase have no idea what to make of it, whether they agree with the trust interpretation or not, because it hasn't been explained and the underlying documents nor any excerpts have been released to trust members or the wider fanbase.

I refuse to back either side, based on lack of evidence from all parties

[Melbourne Cobbler]

I see Roger and Trina are leaving the board and Bob Souster is returning. Not clear on the timings but perhaps the Board were waiting for these changes to occur before meeting with KT? Don’t know much about Bob other than he is in finance? Roger is still running travel and the 500 club, committed as ever!

[guest3086]

An arbiter, arbitrator, facilitator, peacemaker, go-between, middle man, mediator, negotiator; you can put various semantically different titles to the role (I originally used facilitator and peacemaker) but for the purposes of this (and only this) exercise, they all amount to the same thing, the bringing together of the two parties and their differences involved in order for them to come to a satisfactory resolution.  They are probably a lot closer already than people realise? I don't know.

There is no ruling, decision or verdict to be made by the middle man (Trust) that has to be agreed and signed off by the two parties involved, only the trust and confidence of them both that they will treat each side fairly and without bias towards that satisfactory resolution. 

Sometimes, in my experience, the protagonists have just needed their metaphorical heads bashing together to reach that point.  I'm not sure that that would solve this particular situation, but the Trust acting as the hypothetical grease between the two has great potential and would, I believe, enhance the Trusts standing considerably.

All of those titles you mention are of course different in some way or another. However, are they really a role the Trust should undertake even if they could undertake them? It is certainly not what they were set up to do. If an arbiter is required I do not see why it should be the Trust. Ironically an arbiter might be just as useful between the Trust and the Club as between the Club and the Council. Nothing can possibly be resolved now anyway until next year when the new Council body takes over. Unless of course KT and his mate builds the new stand which would be the resolution to this thread.

[Deepcut Cobbler]

All of those titles you mention are of course different in some way or another. However, are they really a role the Trust should undertake even if they could undertake them? It is certainly not what they were set up to do. If an arbiter is required I do not see why it should be the Trust. Ironically an arbiter might be just as useful between the Trust and the Club as between the Club and the Council. Nothing can possibly be resolved now anyway until next year when the new Council body takes over. Unless of course KT and his mate builds the new stand which would be the resolution to this thread.

I acknowledged that they are all specifically different in some way or other but for the purpose of this issue, they all amount to the same thing.
It's just semantics.
It's all about opinions and workable suggestions about how this issue could be possibly resolved. 
Why would someone need to be between the Trust and the club, the issue that is holding up this process is between NBC and the club isn't it?
The Trust are not intrinsically involved as a player in that particular issue.
The relationship between the Trust and the club is a different issue that will need a separate resolution.

[GrangeParkCobbler]

Except that that the club and trust are now publicly arguing about the content and interpretation with KT claiming that the trust have in fact misinterpreted things. All the while, the wider fanbase have no idea what to make of it, whether they agree with the trust interpretation or not, because it hasn't been explained and the underlying documents nor any excerpts have been released to trust members or the wider fanbase.

I refuse to back either side, based on lack of evidence from all parties

The thing is, the wider fanbase as you put it couldn't give a monkeys about any of this......to them the Cobblers is about what happens from 2.55pm to 4.55pm on a Saturday every other week.
Its only when the muck hits the fan that the wider fanbase gets involved in anything.

If said documents (primarily a heavily redacting Memorandum of Understanding and a FOI request response) were made publicly available all of a sudden you'd have 50 or 100 different interpretations. I'm not sure that would be better than we have now.

[rebelspawn]

The thing is, the wider fanbase as you put it couldn't give a monkeys about any of this......to them the Cobblers is about what happens from 2.55pm to 4.55pm on a Saturday every other week.
Its only when the muck hits the fan that the wider fanbase gets involved in anything.

If said documents (primarily a heavily redacting Memorandum of Understanding and a FOI request response) were made publicly available all of a sudden you'd have 50 or 100 different interpretations. I'm not sure that would be better than we have now.

I think it would be a better situation than now. It would force KT to explain in more detail i think instead of just saying 'the trust have misinterpreted the information'

Toward the end of the Cardoza reign, there ware many people on here digging up valuable information, putting pieces of the jigsaw together and clearly demonstrating that something was drastically wrong. All of this was long before the trust woke up to it. I will concede that even after the trust woke up and we the wewantanswers campaign, even then some of the fanbase were hostile towards the trust despite the mounting evidence.

But on balance, i think that crowdsourcing can be a powerful thing.

P.S i am not for one moment equating the current situation or current chairman, to the last, in terms of wrongdoing.