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Redevelopment Closer Than Ever?

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« Reply #27480 on: September 16, 2020, 09:38:06 am »

According to a facebook post in the "Shoe Army" group, the trust board are meeting again tomorrow night to decide once and for all, if they will back the owners plans or not...

But that has not come from the Trust, has it ?  It's someone guess.
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« Reply #27481 on: September 16, 2020, 09:41:34 am »

Are all trust members voting on whether to agree or not or is it just a few, what happens if the Trust don't agree, does it actually mean anything if the Trust don't agree? I am never clear on the relevance of the trust other than an interested party have a view, do they have more power than that? How many members have the Trust got?

No issues with the Trust just trying to understand it's importance

Obviously its good PR for everyone to be on the same side....with a small shareholding the Trust are not relevant in that respect, but the "noise" that they can make has relevance. They obviously don't have the power to veto anything.

Lets be honest, KT and DB with their major shareholding (close to 85%) could do whatever they wanted and damn everyone else if they really wanted to.....in certain circumstances that might not look good though.
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« Reply #27482 on: September 16, 2020, 09:42:23 am »

Are all trust members voting on whether to agree or not or is it just a few, what happens if the Trust don't agree, does it actually mean anything if the Trust don't agree? I am never clear on the relevance of the trust other than an interested party have a view, do they have more power than that? How many members have the Trust got?

No issues with the Trust just trying to understand it's importance

Well, i'm a lifetime trust member but I guess that counts for nowt, as I've not been canvassed!

I guess it's just the trust board making the decision  Roll Eyes
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« Reply #27483 on: September 16, 2020, 09:46:38 am »

Are all trust members voting on whether to agree or not or is it just a few, what happens if the Trust don't agree, does it actually mean anything if the Trust don't agree? I am never clear on the relevance of the trust other than an interested party have a view, do they have more power than that? How many members have the Trust got?

No issues with the Trust just trying to understand it's importance

Neither the club nor the council need the Trust to agree to anything, but at the same time it's not particularly helpful to either to have a noisy third party making derogatory statements or insinuations that get picked up by the press.

The Trust (and especially the Trust board) may amount to three fifths of f*** all in terms of the club's actual support base, but they do brand themselves as the official voice of the supporters and as such carry some significance in the eyes of the wider town populace who know nothing about the football club or its support, they just read about what's reported in the Chron. If they read a story on redevelopment and the Trust are poo-pooing it then they are likely to go "Huh, even the supporters don't want this so it can't be a good deal. Anyway, where's that £10m that came out of my taxes...?"

So while the club don't need the Trust onboard, both they and especially the council would find their lives a lot easier if they could get on with things without someone heckling from the sidelines, because what both parties do need is the support of the tax payers.

I've said before, I'm not anti-Trust, I just don't think the current board are particularly helpful a lot of the time. If I was KT I wouldn't want them on the board as I wouldn't want them having any actual say in the running of things, but I think I would offer one of their representatives (presumably Andy Roberts) some sort of non-exec type role so they could be included in meetings and have the opportunity to voice their opinions without actually having to do anything about them. Better to have them in the tent pissing out then outside the tent pissing in....
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« Reply #27484 on: September 16, 2020, 10:17:45 am »

Neither the club nor the council need the Trust to agree to anything, but at the same time it's not particularly helpful to either to have a noisy third party making derogatory statements or insinuations that get picked up by the press.

The Trust (and especially the Trust board) may amount to three fifths of f*** all in terms of the club's actual support base, but they do brand themselves as the official voice of the supporters and as such carry some significance in the eyes of the wider town populace who know nothing about the football club or its support, they just read about what's reported in the Chron. If they read a story on redevelopment and the Trust are poo-pooing it then they are likely to go "Huh, even the supporters don't want this so it can't be a good deal. Anyway, where's that £10m that came out of my taxes...?"

So while the club don't need the Trust onboard, both they and especially the council would find their lives a lot easier if they could get on with things without someone heckling from the sidelines, because what both parties do need is the support of the tax payers.

I've said before, I'm not anti-Trust, I just don't think the current board are particularly helpful a lot of the time. If I was KT I wouldn't want them on the board as I wouldn't want them having any actual say in the running of things, but I think I would offer one of their representatives (presumably Andy Roberts) some sort of non-exec type role so they could be included in meetings and have the opportunity to voice their opinions without actually having to do anything about them. Better to have them in the tent pissing out then outside the tent pissing in....
It was the European Development Fund, not directly UK tax payers money that disappeared so let’s clear that one up.
Secondly the Trust are the “voice of the supporters “ so have a massive sway in opinion, especially at the council.
Why the fcuk do you think KT is giving them the time of day, he quite clearly despises them ?
If everyone is so concerned about the trust not representing them get involved it’s not difficult.
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« Reply #27485 on: September 16, 2020, 10:27:02 am »

Neither the club nor the council need the Trust to agree to anything, but at the same time it's not particularly helpful to either to have a noisy third party making derogatory statements or insinuations that get picked up by the press.

The Trust (and especially the Trust board) may amount to three fifths of f*** all in terms of the club's actual support base, but they do brand themselves as the official voice of the supporters and as such carry some significance in the eyes of the wider town populace who know nothing about the football club Probably because they ARE the only democratic supporters group at NTFC

So while the club don't need the Trust onboard, both they and especially the council would find their lives a lot easier if they could get on with things without someone heckling from the sidelines, because what both parties do need is the support of the tax payers.From reading all the reports and statements over the years, I don't think that the reason that NTFC & NBC have not been able to "get on with things" is down to the Trust

..
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« Reply #27486 on: September 16, 2020, 10:43:39 am »

It was the European Development Fund, not directly UK tax payers money that disappeared so let’s clear that one up. I know that and you know that, I also know enough about the situation to understand that there's a separation between our former owners and the club. Joe Public doesn't; just look at any set of comments under ANY Chron story about the redev and you'll find multiple comments along the lines of "they've already had £10m off us, why should they get anything else?"
Secondly the Trust are the “voice of the supporters “ so have a massive sway in opinion, especially at the council.
Why the fcuk do you think KT is giving them the time of day, he quite clearly despises them ?
If everyone is so concerned about the trust not representing them get involved it’s not difficult. For the same reason I don't run for parliament. I don't want to. It doesn't mean that I have to agree with everything my MP says or does though.
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« Reply #27487 on: September 16, 2020, 10:51:30 am »

Neither the club nor the council need the Trust to agree to anything, but at the same time it's not particularly helpful to either to have a noisy third party making derogatory statements or insinuations that get picked up by the press.

The Trust (and especially the Trust board) may amount to three fifths of f*** all in terms of the club's actual support base, but they do brand themselves as the official voice of the supporters and as such carry some significance in the eyes of the wider town populace who know nothing about the football club Probably because they ARE the only democratic supporters group at NTFC

So while the club don't need the Trust onboard, both they and especially the council would find their lives a lot easier if they could get on with things without someone heckling from the sidelines, because what both parties do need is the support of the tax payers.From reading all the reports and statements over the years, I don't think that the reason that NTFC & NBC have not been able to "get on with things" is down to the Trust Agreed. But a lot of the reason things are so slow is that the council are bloody terrified of a repeat of the loan fiasco that they not only have to act with appropriate care and attention to detail this time around (and they bloody should have done last time too), they have to be seen to be doing so. This slows things down even more and having the integrity/appropriateness of the deal cast into doubt by a third party isn't exactly helpful as it makes them drag their heels even more, and probably now to the extent that a unitary authority is formed and they can dodge having to make any decision at all. I've not laid the blame for any of this directly with the Trust. I'm just saying they haven't helped and why KT appears to now be trying to get them onside.
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« Reply #27488 on: September 16, 2020, 11:17:13 am »

I would take anyone to task who states that the Trust board is in anyway representative of the support.

It is quite fair to state that they can't hope to suggest that they represent anything more than the boards opinion on this subject. The rest is an assumption on the behalf of the Trust board. As they have have not consulted their members. That's not to say that they can't go off on any tangent should they wish in the name of the Trust.

When most people joined the Trust, it was an effective conduit for communicating the supports concerns. Even at its height, it never carried a large enough membership to state that is was representative of the support. Since its inception, it has enjoyed varying degrees of commitment from the support. But there can be no argument that the poorly attended meetings, loss of the seat on the board, and steadfast refusal to ask its members for direction, has now rendered the Trust at it's lowest ebb. There has not even been a reasonable uptake in membership for years now. I would hazard a guess that with deaths and a lack of renewals, that it has lost members. I am more than happy to be shown facts that contradict that opinion.

So my argument is simple. If the support is behind the Trust as suggested by some on here, answer these simple questions.

1. Explain the virtual lack of attendance at Trust public meetings (unlees there is a non Trust speaker) pre COVID

2. Explain the mere handful of supporters that turned up at the Moat House, for the Trusts flagship meeting on ownership models

3. Explain why even though the Trust board has not kept its wishes hidden, why this resulted in virtually no new memberships

I have said repeatedly. I am not anti the Trust. But I will plug away at this point until the cows come home. The Trust board has been an architect in its demise, by not consulting and canvassing the membership.

 
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« Reply #27489 on: September 16, 2020, 11:41:52 am »

I would take anyone to task who states that the Trust board is in anyway representative of the support.

It is quite fair to state that they can't hope to suggest that they represent anything more than the boards opinion on this subject. The rest is an assumption on the behalf of the Trust board. As they have have not consulted their members. That's not to say that they can't go off on any tangent should they wish in the name of the Trust.

When most people joined the Trust, it was an effective conduit for communicating the supports concerns. Even at its height, it never carried a large enough membership to state that is was representative of the support. Since its inception, it has enjoyed varying degrees of commitment from the support. But there can be no argument that the poorly attended meetings, loss of the seat on the board, and steadfast refusal to ask its members for direction, has now rendered the Trust at it's lowest ebb. There has not even been a reasonable uptake in membership for years now. I would hazard a guess that with deaths and a lack of renewals, that it has lost members. I am more than happy to be shown facts that contradict that opinion.

So my argument is simple. If the support is behind the Trust as suggested by some on here, answer these simple questions.

1. Explain the virtual lack of attendance at Trust public meetings (unlees there is a non Trust speaker) pre COVID

2. Explain the mere handful of supporters that turned up at the Moat House, for the Trusts flagship meeting on ownership models

3. Explain why even though the Trust board has not kept its wishes hidden, why this resulted in virtually no new memberships

I have said repeatedly. I am not anti the Trust. But I will plug away at this point until the cows come home. The Trust board has been an architect in its demise, by not consulting and canvassing the membership.

 
All this may or may not be true but the simple fact of the matter is that the Trust are perceived as the “voice of the supporters “ by the people making the decisions.
Good wins for Rangers & Chelsea at the weekend Tel.
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« Reply #27490 on: September 16, 2020, 11:41:52 am »

If they are having a meeting, with their agenda, to decide whether they agree with the Chairman's/Owners plan or not, their decision might possibly not be in agreement with the majority of the membership? 
Where is the considered democracy for such a fundamental and important decision on which side or where The Trust will reside?

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« Reply #27491 on: September 16, 2020, 11:43:56 am »

If they are having a meeting, with their agenda, to decide whether they agree with the Chairman's/Owners plan or not, their decision might possibly not be in agreement with the majority of the membership? 
Where is the considered democracy for such a fundamental and important decision on which side or where The Trust will reside?


With all due respect to some of our supporters, would you let them make a critical decision for you?  Grin
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« Reply #27492 on: September 16, 2020, 12:11:16 pm »

With all due respect to some of our supporters, would you let them make a critical decision for you?  Grin

Christ no! I remember watching the 15/16 promotion season DVD and there are quite a few linking sections showing fans milling into the ground. My wife commented saying "why do half of them look inbred?" and I found it difficult to disagree with her. Tongue Mind you, I suspect it might be more to do with the type of person that finds it necessary to start gurning at a TV camera when they see one rather than being a general representation of our fans....
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« Reply #27493 on: September 16, 2020, 12:58:35 pm »

With all due respect to some of our supporters, would you let them make a critical decision for you?  Grin

Probably not all of them,  Grin but we are expected to allow the current Trust Board to make this fundamental and important decision on our behalf without having had an opportunity to influence it.
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« Reply #27494 on: September 16, 2020, 13:48:50 pm »

Probably not all of them,  Grin but we are expected to allow the current Trust Board to make this fundamental and important decision on our behalf without having had an opportunity to influence it.

How is it a "fundamental and important decision"?

As I've said, the Trust have no influence other than from a PR perspective. The deal that is on the table between the Club and the Council does not hinge on support from the Trust. I daresay the opposition councillors on the Borough Council have more sway when it finally comes to a vote on whether the deal provides the Council Tax payers of Northampton best value.

If the Trust say they don't support the deal that is on the table then so what......? I would hate anyone to use the Trusts support or lack of support as a dealbreaker here. I'm sure it could end up being dressed up like that though.....
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« Reply #27495 on: September 16, 2020, 14:03:29 pm »

All this may or may not be true but the simple fact of the matter is that the Trust are perceived as the “voice of the supporters “ by the people making the decisions.
Good wins for Rangers & Chelsea at the weekend Tel.

Absolutely mate..
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« Reply #27496 on: September 16, 2020, 14:16:29 pm »

How is it a "fundamental and important decision"?

As I've said, the Trust have no influence other than from a PR perspective. The deal that is on the table between the Club and the Council does not hinge on support from the Trust. I daresay the opposition councillors on the Borough Council have more sway when it finally comes to a vote on whether the deal provides the Council Tax payers of Northampton best value.

If the Trust say they don't support the deal that is on the table then so what......? I would hate anyone to use the Trusts support or lack of support as a dealbreaker here. I'm sure it could end up being dressed up like that though.....

It is for The Trust... Wink  I didn't say that it was a fundamental and important decision for the Redevelopment...
I'll ignore the rest of your post... Grin
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« Reply #27497 on: September 16, 2020, 14:22:30 pm »

How is it a "fundamental and important decision"?

As I've said, the Trust have no influence other than from a PR perspective. The deal that is on the table between the Club and the Council does not hinge on support from the Trust. I daresay the opposition councillors on the Borough Council have more sway when it finally comes to a vote on whether the deal provides the Council Tax payers of Northampton best value.

If the Trust say they don't support the deal that is on the table then so what......? I would hate anyone to use the Trusts support or lack of support as a dealbreaker here. I'm sure it could end up being dressed up like that though.....

The problem with your perspective, is the weight of emphasis the Council have put on the Trust Boards view of the situation. Clearly the lobbying of the council by the Trust board and hangers on has had some impact on the council. In fact, it might even offer them a decent get out clause in terms of tendering their own views. If the Council have elevated the Trust boards opinion to that of the supporters perspective, that absolutely feeds into a state of confusion that they have thrived under for years. They can carry on kicking the can, doing so under the banner of considering the supports view. When the only blindingly obvious flaw, i that, IT IS CLEARLY NOT THE SUPPORTS VIEW. As far as we know, it's not even the view of the one sixth of the support who are Trust members.

I don't massively disagree with what you are saying. But it has the potential to put the wrong people in the driving seat. The Council own the ground, they have the lions share in what is decided going forward. They should the ones who are safeguarding the future of their investment and the people they represent.
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« Reply #27498 on: September 16, 2020, 14:43:35 pm »

I would take anyone to task who states that the Trust board is in anyway representative of the support.

It is quite fair to state that they can't hope to suggest that they represent anything more than the boards opinion on this subject. The rest is an assumption on the behalf of the Trust board. As they have have not consulted their members. That's not to say that they can't go off on any tangent should they wish in the name of the Trust.

When most people joined the Trust, it was an effective conduit for communicating the supports concerns. Even at its height, it never carried a large enough membership to state that is was representative of the support. Since its inception, it has enjoyed varying degrees of commitment from the support. But there can be no argument that the poorly attended meetings, loss of the seat on the board, and steadfast refusal to ask its members for direction, has now rendered the Trust at it's lowest ebb. There has not even been a reasonable uptake in membership for years now. I would hazard a guess that with deaths and a lack of renewals, that it has lost members. I am more than happy to be shown facts that contradict that opinion.

So my argument is simple. If the support is behind the Trust as suggested by some on here, answer these simple questions.

1. Explain the virtual lack of attendance at Trust public meetings (unlees there is a non Trust speaker) pre COVID

2. Explain the mere handful of supporters that turned up at the Moat House, for the Trusts flagship meeting on ownership models

3. Explain why even though the Trust board has not kept its wishes hidden, why this resulted in virtually no new memberships

I have said repeatedly. I am not anti the Trust. But I will plug away at this point until the cows come home. The Trust board has been an architect in its demise, by not consulting and canvassing the membership.

 
As a lifetime member +1
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« Reply #27499 on: September 16, 2020, 15:25:22 pm »

As a lifetime member +1

I think at least we are all agreed that the Trust needs to engage with its members more, and to perhaps put the full argument out there....... perhaps they could explain too why the relationship between Club and Trust soured over the years, because rightly or wrongly the Trust lost impetus when it was outcast (or at least when it believed it was outcast) by the Club.
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