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Redevelopment Closer Than Ever?

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« Reply #27960 on: April 12, 2021, 08:30:48 am »

I'm quite glad the Pooh game has been moved to Friday night, being 6 hours ahead here there's no way I'm staying up until 1am to see us demolished by our fiercest rivals. They are still our local rivals whatever any young un's say, my mates a Notts County fan and just because they don't play Forest often do you think they're not rivals?

Since the Irish traveller took over the gap between the clubs has grown to the point its now become a chasm, despite being in the same division and fair play to him, he has backed the club all the way and even fought with the council over the stadium. Now he has bought the ground and despite building two impressive stands in the time it has taken us to build a fuck up, expect it to be demolished soon for flats and a new out of town stadium to be built that will make Sixfields look even more embarrassing.

They were lucky, nobody legged it with 10m of taxpayers cash and the council will allow him to make a tidy bundle in the deal. After all he's a proper developer and knows exactly how to squeeze the maximum profit out of land, better than most of those who sit on the council.

Herein lies the rub. NTFC have been prisoners to their home throughout their lives. Firstly strangled by the Cockerill Trust and now entangled with complicated legal issues and infighting over the all important adjoining land. This of course was the intention of DC and his crew to make it as impossible for any one individual to be found guilty. Many bent individuals do the very same with businesses, create a smoke screen of complication, names and ownership to avoid whats really going on.

No owner. KT or otherwise is going to do anything to the stadium until they have a clear path to develop adjoining land or raise serious capital for their investment in NTFC. Just as MacAnthony is now due to make a packet or at least some reimbursement for his investment in PUFC, we will never move forward until a tangible solution to the Sixfields conundrum is found.

DC is gone, shit happens, but until the council open up and stop being embarrassed of the football club, sit down with the club owners and agree on a constructive and profitable way forward we are doomed to groundhog day.

In the wake of this pandemic the world of retail has changed forever and what may have been deemed a sensible development just a year ago might now be less appropriate. Despite the issues with the state of the ground surrounding the stadium, the Sixfields area is still a potential goldmine (or gas rig!) If the new council and KT could actually sit around a table and together come up with a sensible way forward there is plenty of potential for both parties to make serious money, make the dark days of DC and his cowboys a distant memory and finally unlock the door to the stadium and therefore the club.

We constantly hear from some corners on here that the stadium is not important, but its all about the team, well sorry that's nonsense or no club would look at improving both their capacity or facilities. An impressive home draws the confidence of investment, that's just business.

The council need to agree with KT how to develop some adjoining land allowing the owners to recoup their losses and create wealth going forward for both parties. A superb hotel complex, retail park or just use the ace card we have up our sleeve, sell a huge chunk of Sixfields to Amazon for their UK distribution hub.

We 'aint going to change our fortunes on the pitch until the shit storm off of it is sorted.



Probably one of the best posts on this thread ever.
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« Reply #27961 on: April 12, 2021, 08:40:53 am »

Good post sir, problem being one half of the potential partnership is inept and sh1t scared of fcuking up again and the other half is a greedy bar steward who wants his cake and eat it.
Where this leaves poor old NTFC I don’t know, Our only hope is the council caveat the deal with the provision that KT has to finish the stand and leave the ground in the condition he got it in, because at the moment it’s an utter disgrace, broken windows, peeling paint and the giant screen 😂 well it sums it all up really.
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« Reply #27962 on: April 12, 2021, 10:01:15 am »

Probably one of the best posts on this thread ever.
Except an impressive home won’t draw investment if it is a financial burden hanging around the neck of the business. Investment is attracted by potential return, it’s that simple.
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« Reply #27963 on: April 12, 2021, 11:58:41 am »

Except an impressive home won’t draw investment if it is a financial burden hanging around the neck of the business. Investment is attracted by potential return, it’s that simple.
That might be true in almost every business except football, and there in lies the problem. KT (and his fans) want (him) to make money out of NTFC FIRST before he actually does anything.

Hammy why do you always want to shift the blame away from KT?  Its you fans who have an agenda  Roll Eyes or its NBC  never KT

If you liked in a street and one house had broken windows, scrap yard for a front lawn, peeling paint etc - what would you think about the owners?  would it be fair to say that have low standards and don't really give a sh\t?

Re the covid excuse - how come Accrington, Fleetwood, Burton, MK, Gillingham, Lincoln all manage ok, let alone the bigger clubs who have no game revenue from their bigger crowds and higher playing budgets etc? 

Surely it is time to be putting pressure on KT to move over as far as the club is concerned?  keep the bloody land and controlling rights to Sixfields (at a decent rent). Surely the longer KT owns the club the more money he will lose (according to him and the accounts) or it that it's all a nice tax write off?  (which still doesn't make sense)

I remember Barry Stonhill getting pushed out by our fans when we were in a very similar league position with i think .5m in debt, and ground in far better condition


 
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« Reply #27964 on: April 12, 2021, 12:29:36 pm »

That might be true in almost every business except football WHY, and there in lies the problem. KT (and his fans) want (him) to make money out of NTFC FIRST before he actually does anything.

Hammy why do you always want to shift the blame away from KT?  Its you fans who have an agenda  Roll Eyes or its NBC  never KT

If you liked in a street and one house had broken windows, scrap yard for a front lawn, peeling paint etc - what would you think about the owners?  would it be fair to say that have low standards and don't really give a sh\t?

Re the covid excuse - how come Accrington, Fleetwood, Burton, MK, Gillingham, Lincoln all manage ok, let alone the bigger clubs who have no game revenue from their bigger crowds and higher playing budgets etc? 
I’ll attach this independent report again in case you missed it. The financial position of most league one clubs is completely redundant in terms of investment opportunity. Please supply factual evidence to contradict this https://foreignpolicy.com/2021/04/02/english-soccer-football-financial-crisis-leagues-project-big-picture/
Surely it is time to be putting pressure on KT to move over as far as the club is concerned?  keep the bloody land and controlling rights to Sixfields (at a decent rent). Surely the longer KT owns the club the more money he will lose (according to him and the accounts) or it that it's all a nice tax write off?  (which still doesn't make sense)

I remember Barry Stonhill getting pushed out by our fans when we were in a very similar league position with i think .5m in debt, and ground in far better condition


 
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« Reply #27965 on: April 12, 2021, 14:06:00 pm »

Except an impressive home won’t draw investment if it is a financial burden hanging around the neck of the business. Investment is attracted by potential return, it’s that simple.

Random is quite correct to a degree and this statement, if you don't mind me saying is a bit confused. I may not have been clear, but what I mean from "investment" is generating income.

If I want to sponsor, treat my friends to a matchday experience, pay for advertising etc. I want the best experience, I'm not interested in the mortgage payments and I'm certainly not going to nail my proud company's name to a garden shed. So for that reason you are quite wrong.

An impressive home in my book, speaking as a builder, would include an impressive kitchen, and equally impressive facilities and social spaces designed to impress and create confidence. The same applies to football and businesses alike its an indisputable fact that an impressive "home" (in any capacity) draws "investment" just as you would take the wife on her birthday to a nice restaurant rather than a kebab shop, maybe?

The situation is not that complex, we have an impasse and in my book this could be easily be solved as unlike many other clubs we have a huge advantage. Land.

KT has the money to "finish the stand" whatever that might be, but he wont spend that money until he is clear on how his team can generate funds from the land to recoup, its quite simple, everyone is just grabbing for assurances right now because its still as clear as mud.

If the club was put for sale tomorrow with a large area of Sixfields attached, with clear preferred planning proposed for certain developments, hotel, retail whatever, new owners would easily be found and probably locally? Who knows? Something needs to pay for the football.

Nobody has the balls to let something happen, the council are now too risk adverse, but if the right development was enabled through owners of NTFC the council would have their money back, the owners an income and NTFC have their annual losses covered.

I know you prefer paragraphs but can I be cheeky and ask you for a one word reply?

Would a finished east stand be more "impressive" than unfinished?
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« Reply #27966 on: April 12, 2021, 14:13:19 pm »

Random is quite correct to a degree and this statement, if you don't mind me saying is a bit confused. I may not have been clear, but what I mean from "investment" is generating income.

If I want to sponsor, treat my friends to a matchday experience, pay for advertising etc. I want the best experience, I'm not interested in the mortgage payments and I'm certainly not going to nail my proud company's name to a garden shed. So for that reason you are quite wrong.

An impressive home in my book, speaking as a builder, would include an impressive kitchen, and equally impressive facilities and social spaces designed to impress and create confidence. The same applies to football and businesses alike its an indisputable fact that an impressive "home" (in any capacity) draws "investment" just as you would take the wife on her birthday to a nice restaurant rather than a kebab shop, maybe?

The situation is not that complex, we have an impasse and in my book this could be easily be solved as unlike many other clubs we have a huge advantage. Land.

KT has the money to "finish the stand" whatever that might be, but he wont spend that money until he is clear on how his team can generate funds from the land to recoup, its quite simple, everyone is just grabbing for assurances right now because its still as clear as mud.

If the club was put for sale tomorrow with a large area of Sixfields attached, with clear preferred planning proposed for certain developments, hotel, retail whatever, new owners would easily be found and probably locally? Who knows? Something needs to pay for the football.

Nobody has the balls to let something happen, the council are now too risk adverse, but if the right development was enabled through owners of NTFC the council would have their money back, the owners an income and NTFC have their annual losses covered.

I know you prefer paragraphs but can I be cheeky and ask you for a one word reply?

Would a finished east stand be more "impressive" than unfinished?
Impressive.
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« Reply #27967 on: April 12, 2021, 14:36:38 pm »

expect you can say the same for Championship clubs and even more so for Prem teams until recently. the higher you go up the football ladder the more money you lose.

But i'm sure you know, its much more than just the bottom line but all in all football clubs don't make money, hence why they should be owned (in part at least) by the community they serve.

We have the current situation where the owners have NO interest in taking the club forward, so back to good old League 2 where we belong, and some fans can be very proud that they follow a sh/tty little team (so are we special) rather than a club that has success and attracting those horrible glory hunters.

That game on Saturday was a very very sad and frustrating reflect on NTFC as a football club and everyone concerned should be quite ashamed. It could be forgiven if we had only been around for 15 years or that we had a massive club or 2 within 25 miles but we don't, so sorry no excuses.

The development we need is an actual strategy and direction of how, given our resources and situation, are we in the next 5 years going to become a league 1 club on the up. The ground is a part of that but first thing that needs to change is the attitude and a plan.
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« Reply #27968 on: April 12, 2021, 14:47:53 pm »

There are 2 parts to this conundrum. A better stadium clearly provides a better match day experience for supporters, is more attractive to potential sponsors, more appealing to potential signings, the list is quite extensive. Therefore there are incentives for a benefactor with a passion for the club to develop the facilities.
In the absence of a benefactor the other option is for an investor to buy the club, which can only really occur if there is a reasonable possibility of an attractive return on any investment in a realistic time frame. At this point in time and even prior to Covid the investment opportunity at Northampton Town football club or indeed most league one clubs in my view just isn’t a viable risk. This is at the heart of this whole dispute.
There are clearly advantages to developing the ground, this is undeniable. The problem is the raising of capital, because whilst the advantages are undeniable, so is the current financial position of most league clubs. If the development of facilities would lead to a probable return on investment then football wouldn’t be in the current financial crisis it found itself even pre Covid.
There is a reason most clubs need a benefactor or an organisation like a council or a land sell off to develop the ground. That is because the usual routes to finance through financial institutions is not an option and there is a reason for that.
Any expenditure on almost every league one football club is not an investment, it’s a donation and until people understand the difference and the reasons why then this debate will continue indefinitely. There will always be exceptions and examples where this may not be the case, but investment relies on calculated risk and likely return, and speaking as someone who has invested significant sums in businesses over many years my assessment is that it is completely unviable as an investment opportunity.
Everyone is entitled to an opinion of course, but my view is that almost every argument to the contrary has got thinking with the heart rather than the head written all over it, and that is never a good idea when it comes to investments. Please don’t misunderstand me, there are many ways that football could and should be run, and the current way is shockingly inadequate.
All I have ever argued about is the viability as a pure investment opportunity, getting a return on that investment and ultimately making any club self funding. It’s not impossible of course, just very unlikely in my opinion.
May I just end with the caveat that historically I have misjudged opportunities in the past and will openly admit I am not always correct in my evaluations, particularly when it is regarding businesses outside of my usual industry, so go easy on me.
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« Reply #27969 on: April 12, 2021, 18:38:05 pm »



Hammy why do you always want to shift the blame away from KT?  Its you fans who have an agenda  Roll Eyes or its NBC  never KT

 

It is a combination of all involved, I'm not excusing anyone. I have been trying for what seems forever now to get people to move on past the so called “ring fenced” money.

I have said right from the start, even when I was on the Trust board, that nothing can happen until something concrete is said about the land. If it is not part of the clubs future, and the council don’t see it as so, then just sell it to somebody completely unrelated to the club. The constant state of flux over the land is what has, and what will continue to attract owners who might not prioritise the stadium, or the club. Hence my interest in the parameters of the original lease and tenancy agreement.

As they say “it’s the hope that kills you”.

 
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« Reply #27970 on: April 12, 2021, 21:34:56 pm »

It is a combination of all involved, I'm not excusing anyone. I have been trying for what seems forever now to get people to move on past the so called “ring fenced” money.

I have said right from the start, even when I was on the Trust board, that nothing can happen until something concrete is said about the land. If it is not part of the clubs future, and the council don’t see it as so, then just sell it to somebody completely unrelated to the club. The constant state of flux over the land is what has, and what will continue to attract owners who might not prioritise the stadium, or the club. Hence my interest in the parameters of the original lease and tenancy agreement.

As they say “it’s the hope that kills you”.

 

Yes, but it’s the so called ring fenced money that’s probably one of the main bones of contention with
people who aren’t privy to or au fait with all the complexities and legalities involved and possibly, who knows, historically a major stumbling block in moving things forward. Maybe, just maybe, if he’d used the ring fenced money he said he had ring fenced to finish the stand and actually got the stand finished 4 or 5
years ago, then the council may have been more, trusting of him, compliant and obliging with the land issues and it wouldn’t have got this far down the road, the stand would be finished, KT and DB would have their profit and possibly  moved on, the club wouldn’t be 6, 7, 8 or however millions in debt and may even been left with a couple of quid in the bank. Just a thought.
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« Reply #27971 on: April 13, 2021, 01:55:16 am »

It is a combination of all involved, I'm not excusing anyone. I have been trying for what seems forever now to get people to move on past the so called “ring fenced” money.

I have said right from the start, even when I was on the Trust board, that nothing can happen until something concrete is said about the land. If it is not part of the clubs future, and the council don’t see it as so, then just sell it to somebody completely unrelated to the club. The constant state of flux over the land is what has, and what will continue to attract owners who might not prioritise the stadium, or the club. Hence my interest in the parameters of the original lease and tenancy agreement.

And there we have it...

1405 pages of wasted waffle. No sane individual is going to buy the club, spend millions on the stadium, millions on a team with no serious ability to recoup the money.

Until a clear designated area of Sixfields is given over to the club owners to develop (correctly) nothing will happen. The correct development should wipe away the missing money to the council, provide substantial funds to the club, KT and his backers.

We could have years to wait so in the meantime we may as well play a different game with all you entrepreneurs.

If you were given a significant acreage of Sixfields what would you put there to generate firstly a large sum and then funds year on year?



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« Reply #27972 on: April 13, 2021, 06:35:45 am »

I’d start with a hotel - Premier Inn type level at the bottom of the West Stand Car park. Acknowledged shortage of hotel rooms in Northampton area. Wouldn’t be reliant on other areas of development land and should provide a steady income.

Wind farm on the rest of the land to generate money and electricity from all the hot air about what else should be there.
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I think someone should just take this city of Peterborough and just... just flush it down the f***in' toilet

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« Reply #27973 on: April 13, 2021, 08:04:45 am »

And there we have it...

1405 pages of wasted waffle. No sane individual is going to buy the club, spend millions on the stadium, millions on a team with no serious ability to recoup the money.

Until a clear designated area of Sixfields is given over to the club owners to develop (correctly) nothing will happen. The correct development should wipe away the missing money to the council, provide substantial funds to the club, KT and his backers.

We could have years to wait so in the meantime we may as well play a different game with all you entrepreneurs.

If you were given a significant acreage of Sixfields what would you put there to generate firstly a large sum and then funds year on year?




I would build a Giga factory for Lithium batteries as there is probably loads of lithium in the ground in that area from the old landfill!!!
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« Reply #27974 on: April 13, 2021, 10:11:22 am »


Wind farm on the rest of the land to generate money and electricity from all the hot air about what else should be there.
Solar panels on the South Stand roof.
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« Reply #27975 on: April 13, 2021, 10:20:42 am »

I’d start with a hotel -Premier Inn type

With you there but nothing standard.

Attached to the stadium a huge 100 room hotel, with standard rooms through to top end suites, a huge bar area on the ground floor capable of gobbling up money everyday especially a match day, roof top destination restaurant, fitness suite, pool, gym and function room/suite.

The council should tout the rest of Sixfields as a premium location to the biggest delivery giants in the market for their HQ/Hub and sell them the whole bloody lot ensuring jobs a huge pay day and prosperity for the future.

They wont do this though. it will just look shit forever.
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« Reply #27976 on: April 13, 2021, 11:10:22 am »

With you there but nothing standard.

Attached to the stadium a huge 100 room hotel, with standard rooms through to top end suites, a huge bar area on the ground floor capable of gobbling up money everyday especially a match day, roof top destination restaurant, fitness suite, pool, gym and function room/suite.

The council should tout the rest of Sixfields as a premium location to the biggest delivery giants in the market for their HQ/Hub and sell them the whole bloody lot ensuring jobs a huge pay day and prosperity for the future.

They wont do this though. it will just look shit forever.
I agree with you on this, as there is a lot of three star hotels around. There is one over the road at the BP station. Not too many four stars around. The council turned down Ikea, Amazon has a home just south of MK, but as we all know, the old bus station is just derelict and gone. thats what will happen to this land.
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« Reply #27977 on: April 13, 2021, 12:44:27 pm »

Solar panels on the South Stand roof.

Connected to the “big screen”
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« Reply #27978 on: April 13, 2021, 14:33:16 pm »

Yes, but it’s the so called ring fenced money that’s probably one of the main bones of contention with
people who aren’t privy to or au fait with all the complexities and legalities involved and possibly, who knows, historically a major stumbling block in moving things forward. Maybe, just maybe, if he’d used the ring fenced money he said he had ring fenced to finish the stand and actually got the stand finished 4 or 5
years ago, then the council may have been more, trusting of him, compliant and obliging with the land issues and it wouldn’t have got this far down the road, the stand would be finished, KT and DB would have their profit and possibly  moved on, the club wouldn’t be 6, 7, 8 or however millions in debt and may even been left with a couple of quid in the bank. Just a thought.

I’d still rather deal with a solution and the here and now.
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« Reply #27979 on: April 13, 2021, 14:55:32 pm »

It can't all be pinned on the council(s) but the lack of growth and development of the town is such a shame. We've had a fantastic Uni built down near Avon....and beyond student accommodation I'm struggling to think of any decent regeneration of note. Areas such as St Peters Way have had boards and signs up for years with promises of development.
Town centre is tricky because the high street has died a death over the past 20 years. There aren't too many reasons left to visit it.
They tried Sol Central but that is normally a ghost town due to the location and crap parking. The old bus station site is a proper white elephant.

It's a huge town and missing so many things that would be viable but need investment. e.g. an ice skating rink pretty much anywhere would do well IMO. It wouldn't be the popular choice but we have several chain restaurant's missing such as Wagamama that would give people another reason to go into town and support businesses.
It's a shame we can't develop a culture of small independents in the absence of the big boys. I love places like Vintage Guru.

My personal bug bear is the fact that they haven't bothered to build the tiny stretch of link road between St James Park Road and Smyths Toys, which you could almost throw with a stone. After building the link behind Sixfields it's an absolute no brainer and would solve so much congestion in that area.

I think Sixfields remains the gold mine, hence our problems. In normal times the Macdonalds, cinema (despite being double the price of town centre), bowling alley and most of the restaurants are busy. They even queue around the block for the tip.  Tongue  

I just wish they'd sort it out as the stalemate isn't benefitting anyone.
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