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Redevelopment Closer Than Ever?

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Author Topic: Redevelopment Closer Than Ever?  (Read 1342474 times)
guest3338
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« Reply #29660 on: October 13, 2021, 15:49:57 pm »

If they have can we all agree to do the same  Roll Eyes
Sorry, I was bring sarcastic. Your point was also my point but you expressed it better than I with the inclusion of a raised eyebrow or two.
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SadOldGit
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« Reply #29661 on: October 13, 2021, 17:36:00 pm »

Wind your neck in.

It’s the trust who keep bringing up the £10,000 fiasco
I’m just responding to the fact that the trust keep mentioning it.
You can go back through threads to confirm that the trust keep bringing the situation up if you wish.

We’re you on the trust board at the time?
If not how would you have any idea of timescales??

As for not having time to do things…
This is a usual response from the trust at every twist and turn.

It would take five minutes flat to draw up a legal document stating whether money is gifted or lent.
That isn’t legal eagle stuff!!
Was no one on the board at the time intelligent enough to realise that this clarity was needed??
They should have been given what the club had just been through.

In the same way the trust point out that the club haven’t delivered on their £4m redevelopment promise (was that ever in writing?) and constantly bring up the perceived failings of the clubs owners and keep banging on about unanswered questions , all I am doing is highlighting that the trust are acting in the same way.
Six years on no one has explained what actually went on with the 10k and what protocols were followed.

The trust seem very good at scrutinising others but are unable to answer extremely simple questions when faced with them themselves.

Are you suggesting from a position from within the trust that the 10k was given to the club on no more than a verbal agreement as that is what you seem to be insinuating with your pushed for time theory.

If not and you were not on the trust board at the time and therefore wouldn’t actually know any more than other posters would someone from the trust please step up and answer the question once and for all (preferably someone who was making the decisions at the time however uncomfortable that may be).

Once that has been put to bed the trust will be in a better position to scrutinise the redevelopment or the Chinese investment or fan ownership or whatever scheme they think of next.

Tidy up your own desk and explain what actually occurred regards the 10k , who were the trust board members who decided to pass the money on and what protocols were in place.



Thankyou.


If you are so interested and agitated and won't accept anyones answers other than those of the Trust why the hell don't you email/write/phone/text/message/fax or, god forbid, speak to the bloody Trust and ask them? Any dick on here can say they are on the board of the Trust.
« Last Edit: October 13, 2021, 17:43:27 pm by SadOldGit » Report Spam   Logged
KeithB
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« Reply #29662 on: October 13, 2021, 18:04:42 pm »


If you are so interested and agitated and won't accept anyones answers other than those of the Trust why the hell don't you email/write/phone/text/message/fax or, god forbid, speak to the bloody Trust and ask them? Any dick on here can say they are on the board of the Trust.

I'm a dick on here who's definitely on the board of the Trust.  I can't remember the last time the £10k was mentioned at a board meeting.  I think the context when it was mentioned was when we had received another "telling off" email from the club about something or other, the comments were to the effect that the Trust's members were there when nobody else was and some senior people in the club had selective and/or memories.  Just mentioned amongst the board, no action agreed about it, and then it wasn't mentioned again as far as I recall.

It happened before I joined around 3 years ago so I can't give details.  I would probably be able give more had it been discussed to any degree during our meetings.

Reflecting on how things were at the time, if it were to happen now I would want unpaid staff to get paid as quickly as possible so I wouldn't be getting too fussed about drafting a legal agreement.  You'd also be in a situation where new owners could say they didn't agree to the loan (the entity owning the club would be a different company in all probability anyway) and refuse to recognise it.  So I'd also be prepared for it not to be returned in the event of the takeover not going ahead and the club ending up in even worse circumstances.

That's all I can say about it.  It's genuinely not on my radar currently.
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guest168
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« Reply #29663 on: October 13, 2021, 18:50:49 pm »

That's not true.  He has addressed the issue several times in the press and we know from the "leaked" letter that he addressed it directly with the Trust Board, something which by the way the Trust failed and still fails to share with it's members despite many requests.  Hardly someone that has in your own words "not mentioned one word about it".  He also disputed the figures.

What documentation do you have and where was it obtained from?  That's surely an important factor because else you are just making a statement with no supporting evidence and telling me to just trust you.

I meant since the presentation went to WNC

By your logic we should ask to see all the invoices when KT says he spent £500k more than income

The documents have been seen by solicitors, they are real and true

It’s obviously something you don’t want to believe. Fine that’s up to you
 

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SadOldGit
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« Reply #29664 on: October 13, 2021, 18:51:29 pm »

I'm a dick on here who's definitely on the board of the Trust.  I can't remember the last time the £10k was mentioned at a board meeting.  I think the context when it was mentioned was when we had received another "telling off" email from the club about something or other, the comments were to the effect that the Trust's members were there when nobody else was and some senior people in the club had selective and/or memories.  Just mentioned amongst the board, no action agreed about it, and then it wasn't mentioned again as far as I recall.

It happened before I joined around 3 years ago so I can't give details.  I would probably be able give more had it been discussed to any degree during our meetings.

Reflecting on how things were at the time, if it were to happen now I would want unpaid staff to get paid as quickly as possible so I wouldn't be getting too fussed about drafting a legal agreement.  You'd also be in a situation where new owners could say they didn't agree to the loan (the entity owning the club would be a different company in all probability anyway) and refuse to recognise it.  So I'd also be prepared for it not to be returned in the event of the takeover not going ahead and the club ending up in even worse circumstances.

That's all I can say about it.  It's genuinely not on my radar currently.

Oh no! What is the shoe manufacturer going to rant about now? 😕
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Shoemaker
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« Reply #29665 on: October 13, 2021, 18:57:11 pm »

Oh no! What is the shoe manufacturer going to rant about now? 😕
Your very poor level of sarcasm perhaps  Smiley
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« Reply #29666 on: October 13, 2021, 20:28:48 pm »

I meant since the presentation went to WNC

By your logic we should ask to see all the invoices when KT says he spent £500k more than income

The documents have been seen by solicitors, they are real and true

It’s obviously something you don’t want to believe. Fine that’s up to you

Contrary to what you might think I happy to believe things but I like to see evidence/proof and hear the whole story from both sides rather than just taking the word of an inidvidual or an single organisation. 

In fairness the Trust Board and it's foot soldiers have history in delivering partial truths or presenting facts in a way that omits key information to paint a picture.  I think it's a fair question to ask what exactly the evidence is, how it was obtained and why only certain individuals have the priviledge of seeing or knowing about this information.  I mean it's almost like you are acting in the same secretive way as the very owners you detest.

In my view the Trust should be the shining example of openess and transparency because if they do they set the standard that can be expected from all others.  Members/supporters should be able ask and have answered anything.  They should be able to view any correspondence, read minutes from any meeting and so on.  Complete transparency should surely be the goal and that then enables all supporters to have all the information they need to form an opinion.  Imagine how freeing it would be for everyone involved.  Actually trusting the membership/supporters to form their own opinion and galvanise support.

As the Trust have been at pains to point out on many occasions regarding our club ownership the moment someone won't answer a question or provide evidence/information you start to wonder why that is and if there is something to hide.

So going back to my original question what is the evidence, what does it show, how was it obtained and why are only certain individuals allowed to see it?
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« Reply #29667 on: October 13, 2021, 20:38:58 pm »

 He has addressed the issue several times in the press and we know from the "leaked" letter that he addressed it directly with the Trust Board, He also disputed the figures.

What documentation do you have and where was it obtained from? ]That's surely an important factor because else you are just making a statement with no supporting evidence and telling me to just trust you.[/color]
Surely the words in red also apply to KT ? Has he posted any prove or evidence ? I think the really big thing is that he hasn't denied it has he ? and with a partner who owns a string of law firms, I would have thought any incorrect statement would have been jumped on ASAP
     
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« Reply #29668 on: October 13, 2021, 21:11:04 pm »

Surely the words in red also apply to KT ? Has he posted any prove or evidence ? I think the really big thing is that he hasn't denied it has he ? and with a partner who owns a string of law firms, I would have thought any incorrect statement would have been jumped on ASAP

I agree and you are actually making my exact point for me.  If we want to apply that level of expectation to provide evidence/proof to the owners I think it's perfectly fair to have that expectation of the Trust.  That way everyone operates under the same rules.  Genuinely, imagine if the Trust operated under these rules it would absolutely show a clear distinction in expected and actual behaviour between the supporters and owners.  Thanks for supporting my view.

RE the other point about not getting sued being proof what you said is true.  I get the point you and others have made when saying this but it's not really the way the world works is it.  I mean think about this logically.  If I called you a w****r and you didn't sue me does that mean you are w****r?

Another example using that logic.  Nobody from the Trust has taken legal action against me for what I said yesterday...does that mean I'm right?  What if you state something that's true but without the full context or detail.  Like people did when they said the Trust gave up it's seat on the board.  It's a fact.  They technically did but you and I know that only tells a fraction of the whole story of why that happened.
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« Reply #29669 on: October 13, 2021, 22:03:35 pm »



Another example using that logic.  Nobody from the Trust has taken legal action against me for what I said yesterday...does that mean I'm right?  What if you state something that's true but without the full context or detail.  Like people did when they said the Trust gave up it's seat on the board.  It's a fact.  They technically did but you and I know that only tells a fraction of the whole story of why that happened.
Just one little differential, the Trust don't own a string of law firms  Roll Eyes
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guest168
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« Reply #29670 on: October 13, 2021, 22:10:04 pm »

I agree and you are actually making my exact point for me.  If we want to apply that level of expectation to provide evidence/proof to the owners I think it's perfectly fair to have that expectation of the Trust.  That way everyone operates under the same rules.  Genuinely, imagine if the Trust operated under these rules it would absolutely show a clear distinction in expected and actual behaviour between the supporters and owners.  Thanks for supporting my view.

RE the other point about not getting sued being proof what you said is true.  I get the point you and others have made when saying this but it's not really the way the world works is it.  I mean think about this logically.  If I called you a w****r and you didn't sue me does that mean you are w****r?

Another example using that logic.  Nobody from the Trust has taken legal action against me for what I said yesterday...does that mean I'm right?  What if you state something that's true but without the full context or detail.  Like people did when they said the Trust gave up it's seat on the board.  It's a fact.  They technically did but you and I know that only tells a fraction of the whole story of why that happened.

Funny enough it was actually mentioned between us

Not exactly the same either is - one is “accusing” someone of receiving a payment of £6.68m from a vague Chinese source for basically nothing, as the shares were “re-acquired”

The other is you v The Trust stating we killed a fan-led initiative

As Carton says, do you know anything about our owner? Do you what he did / does?
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guest168
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« Reply #29671 on: October 13, 2021, 22:17:16 pm »

Sorry MC, whilst you can keep shouting “look over here” but

We at the Trust have our eyes firmly fixed on what has and is happening to our football club

Still not had a reply from Tcobb so I will ask you the same question. Have a think about...... 

What league we will be in, how much will our squad be worth and how will the stadium look, IF KT/DB are still here in 3 years ?

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« Reply #29672 on: October 13, 2021, 23:44:09 pm »

 Random. The answer to all three question is, i dont know, i dont know, i dont know, nobody does. Now you tell me, because if you know the answer, you are the best clairvoyant ever known.
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« Reply #29673 on: October 14, 2021, 00:07:05 am »

Sorry MC, whilst you can keep shouting “look over here” but

We at the Trust have our eyes firmly fixed on what has and is happening to our football club

Still not had a reply from Tcobb so I will ask you the same question. Have a think about...... 

What league we will be in, how much will our squad be worth and how will the stadium look, IF KT/DB are still here in 3 years ?

The moment you answer my questions I'll answer yours.
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guest3429
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« Reply #29674 on: October 14, 2021, 07:58:11 am »


What league we will be in, how much will our squad be worth and how will the stadium look, IF KT/DB are still here in 3 years ?



OK, so I started going in 1981 we were an average 4th Division side in a average 4th Division ground, In 2021 we're...

I'll hazard a stonking guess but ..... Grin
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guest3359
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« Reply #29675 on: October 14, 2021, 09:21:16 am »

Its almost as if some are wanting the owners to sue for libel so they can use it to show how bad they are. I hope that isnt the case.

For me the China thing.... I have no reason to doubt that they sold the club. I havent seen the proof but people a lot more involved on here seem to have and it would be a very strange thing to make up or even exaggerate. But that seems to be the extent of fact. We dont know how much KT/DB made, if anything. I know the same people will mention the sale value, the breakdown etc but we dont know what legal fees they had, what international trading fees they had, what the agreed buy back price was and what fees that would have included.
If you don't believe they incurred any and are £6m richer or whatever the value is, do you truly believe that a Chinese company who have made that amount of money and decided to buy an English football club, regardless of what intentions you believe they have, would willingly lose £6m and just put it down to a bad day at the office?

From what I have read, and I am no expert, the Trust nor anyone associated with it have said anything libelous. They have made insinuations but never crossed that line. I would expect that if they had the club for sure would at least issue some sort of cease and desist letter. But the whole they havent denied it so it must be true approach only applies to a fart in the playground.
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« Reply #29676 on: October 14, 2021, 09:37:07 am »

Random. The answer to all three question is, i dont know, i dont know, i dont know, nobody does. Now you tell me, because if you know the answer, you are the best clairvoyant ever known.
😂👍
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« Reply #29677 on: October 14, 2021, 09:57:15 am »

Its almost as if some are wanting the owners to sue for libel so they can use it to show how bad they are. I hope that isnt the case.

For me the China thing.... I have no reason to doubt that they sold the club. I havent seen the proof but people a lot more involved on here seem to have and it would be a very strange thing to make up or even exaggerate. But that seems to be the extent of fact. We dont know how much KT/DB made, if anything. I know the same people will mention the sale value, the breakdown etc but we dont know what legal fees they had, what international trading fees they had, what the agreed buy back price was and what fees that would have included.
If you don't believe they incurred any and are £6m richer or whatever the value is, do you truly believe that a Chinese company who have made that amount of money and decided to buy an English football club, regardless of what intentions you believe they have, would willingly lose £6m and just put it down to a bad day at the office?

From what I have read, and I am no expert, the Trust nor anyone associated with it have said anything libelous. They have made insinuations but never crossed that line. I would expect that if they had the club for sure would at least issue some sort of cease and desist letter. But the whole they havent denied it so it must be true approach only applies to a fart in the playground.
THE TRUST HAVE THE PROOF.
WHY DONT YOU ASK THEM.
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« Reply #29678 on: October 14, 2021, 10:01:19 am »

THE TRUST HAVE THE PROOF.
WHY DONT YOU ASK THEM.

I've asked representatives of the Trust several times and been roundly ignored on each occasion.

Edit: I've only asked them on here, so I assume you'll tell me I need to write an email (or arrange a Zoom call?  Wink).
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« Reply #29679 on: October 14, 2021, 10:05:43 am »

I've asked representatives of the Trust several times and been roundly ignored on each occasion.

Edit: I've only asked them on here, so I assume you'll tell me I need to write an email (or arrange a Zoom call?  Wink).

In any case, you miss the point. Maybe the majority on here aren't excited enough to actively seek out the proof themselves, and the only way to get people on board is to proactively show them something that makes them sit up and listen.
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