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Redevelopment Closer Than Ever?

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Author Topic: Redevelopment Closer Than Ever?  (Read 1421517 times)
guest3359
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« Reply #29600 on: October 14, 2021, 09:21:16 am »

Its almost as if some are wanting the owners to sue for libel so they can use it to show how bad they are. I hope that isnt the case.

For me the China thing.... I have no reason to doubt that they sold the club. I havent seen the proof but people a lot more involved on here seem to have and it would be a very strange thing to make up or even exaggerate. But that seems to be the extent of fact. We dont know how much KT/DB made, if anything. I know the same people will mention the sale value, the breakdown etc but we dont know what legal fees they had, what international trading fees they had, what the agreed buy back price was and what fees that would have included.
If you don't believe they incurred any and are £6m richer or whatever the value is, do you truly believe that a Chinese company who have made that amount of money and decided to buy an English football club, regardless of what intentions you believe they have, would willingly lose £6m and just put it down to a bad day at the office?

From what I have read, and I am no expert, the Trust nor anyone associated with it have said anything libelous. They have made insinuations but never crossed that line. I would expect that if they had the club for sure would at least issue some sort of cease and desist letter. But the whole they havent denied it so it must be true approach only applies to a fart in the playground.
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« Reply #29601 on: October 14, 2021, 09:37:07 am »

Random. The answer to all three question is, i dont know, i dont know, i dont know, nobody does. Now you tell me, because if you know the answer, you are the best clairvoyant ever known.
😂👍
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« Reply #29602 on: October 14, 2021, 09:57:15 am »

Its almost as if some are wanting the owners to sue for libel so they can use it to show how bad they are. I hope that isnt the case.

For me the China thing.... I have no reason to doubt that they sold the club. I havent seen the proof but people a lot more involved on here seem to have and it would be a very strange thing to make up or even exaggerate. But that seems to be the extent of fact. We dont know how much KT/DB made, if anything. I know the same people will mention the sale value, the breakdown etc but we dont know what legal fees they had, what international trading fees they had, what the agreed buy back price was and what fees that would have included.
If you don't believe they incurred any and are £6m richer or whatever the value is, do you truly believe that a Chinese company who have made that amount of money and decided to buy an English football club, regardless of what intentions you believe they have, would willingly lose £6m and just put it down to a bad day at the office?

From what I have read, and I am no expert, the Trust nor anyone associated with it have said anything libelous. They have made insinuations but never crossed that line. I would expect that if they had the club for sure would at least issue some sort of cease and desist letter. But the whole they havent denied it so it must be true approach only applies to a fart in the playground.
THE TRUST HAVE THE PROOF.
WHY DONT YOU ASK THEM.
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« Reply #29603 on: October 14, 2021, 10:01:19 am »

THE TRUST HAVE THE PROOF.
WHY DONT YOU ASK THEM.

I've asked representatives of the Trust several times and been roundly ignored on each occasion.

Edit: I've only asked them on here, so I assume you'll tell me I need to write an email (or arrange a Zoom call?  Wink).
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« Reply #29604 on: October 14, 2021, 10:05:43 am »

I've asked representatives of the Trust several times and been roundly ignored on each occasion.

Edit: I've only asked them on here, so I assume you'll tell me I need to write an email (or arrange a Zoom call?  Wink).

In any case, you miss the point. Maybe the majority on here aren't excited enough to actively seek out the proof themselves, and the only way to get people on board is to proactively show them something that makes them sit up and listen.
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« Reply #29605 on: October 14, 2021, 10:22:48 am »

https://www.newhotelend.com/what-next

Very disappointed by this. Maybe my thoughts on what a fan led initiative is are different to other peoples.
Essentially all that has happened is they have made up some drawings, made up some scenarios and said over to you NTFC / Trust.
What happened to the further investigations that were mentioned? It didnt say anything about asking the club to run with it or even the Trust.
I appreciate its peoples times etc but to blame the club and the Trust for it being shelved isn't fair on either. If they had completed all the investigations and passed on something more than a back of an envelope concept then maybe.

This came with a very professional feel, a lot of fan fare with articles in the Chron and also from the club I think but essentially was no substance and not even slightly fan led.
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« Reply #29606 on: October 14, 2021, 10:32:10 am »

THE TRUST HAVE THE PROOF.
WHY DONT YOU ASK THEM.
DONE
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« Reply #29607 on: October 14, 2021, 10:40:37 am »

THE TRUST HAVE THE PROOF.
WHY DONT YOU ASK THEM.

Why should the ordinary members have to request in order to 'pull' the information into the public domain, shouldn't The Trust be 'pushing' the information?
Or is it on a 'need to know/limited distribution', therefore the ordinary members shouldn't be provided with the information, even if it's individually requested?
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ďThey shall grow not old as we that are left grow old:
Age shall not weary them, nor the years condemn.
At the going down of the sun and in the morning
We will remember them.Ē Laurence Binyon

The Hotelend Grand National Sweepstake Champion 2009
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« Reply #29608 on: October 14, 2021, 10:56:45 am »

Why should the ordinary members have to request in order to 'pull' the information into the public domain, shouldn't The Trust be 'pushing' the information?
Or is it on a 'need to know/limited distribution', therefore the ordinary members shouldn't be provided with the information, even if it's individually requested?
I would have thought information like that isnít for the public domain, not to mention most arenít interested.
The trust have evidenced it so there you go, the smoking gun.
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« Reply #29609 on: October 14, 2021, 10:57:23 am »

DONE
WELL DONE WOODY, WHY ARE WE SHOUTING?
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« Reply #29610 on: October 14, 2021, 11:07:27 am »

In any case, you miss the point. Maybe the majority on here aren't excited enough to actively seek out the proof themselves, and the only way to get people on board is to proactively show them something that makes them sit up and listen.
Thatís because Iím a bit thick 😉 I think at this point in time further trying to alienate the current owners from the fan base is counterproductive, we need a solution to this impasse unfortunately one side wants to eat all the cake so it needs arbitration.
Taking the arrogant egotistical personalities out of this would be a major step forwards to a conclusion.
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« Reply #29611 on: October 14, 2021, 11:10:02 am »

I'm not sure what 'proof' the Trust are holding but it clearly isn't anything illegal...unless of course they are instructing a legal entity to take action, hence why they won't share it.
If it's nothing illegal then it means very little, as apart from a photo in the tunnel the Chinese had little to do with NTFC.
If someone managed to bag £6m for effectively nothing I'd respect them a bit more, rather than resent them.
I totally understand where some are going with this and that any money should be offset against the debts. If only life (and business) was so easy!
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« Reply #29612 on: October 14, 2021, 11:45:53 am »

I'm not sure what 'proof' the Trust are holding but it clearly isn't anything illegal...unless of course they are instructing a legal entity to take action, hence why they won't share it.
If it's nothing illegal then it means very little, as apart from a photo in the tunnel the Chinese had little to do with NTFC.
If someone managed to bag £6m for effectively nothing I'd respect them a bit more, rather than resent them.
I totally understand where some are going with this and that any money should be offset against the debts. If only life (and business) was so easy!
Emmmm Iím not so sure I would respect someone more for that action, how would you feel if it was your £6m?

Whatís a bit rich is then claiming youíve pumped £xm + into an organisation when in real terms you have had income from a defaulted transaction.
Is that someone you would want to do business with?
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« Reply #29613 on: October 14, 2021, 11:51:57 am »

ref new hotel end...
Quote
WHAT ARE THE NEXT STEPS?
1. Initial funding roadmapping with Dave Boyle of the Community Shares Company

2. Pre-Feasability and Feasability Studies with Mott Macdonald.

3. Capital raise (Tifosy/Community Shares Company) or alternative funding options.

No mention of asking the club for money. Surely step 3 is when we would have been asked to contribute (although would have to support 1 and 2)

Quote
WHAT DO YOU MEAN BY FAN-LED?
While Northampton Town FC have given their blessing to the early exploration of the project they have asserted their belief that the New Hotel End project be driven by supporters.

The only funding so far has been from Northampton Town Supportersí Trust and we thank them for their valued support in exploring a project which has the potential to benefit the club and supporters alike.
So the clubs position was known from the outset, and the same from the Trust.
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« Reply #29614 on: October 14, 2021, 11:54:34 am »

Emmmm Iím not so sure I would respect someone more for that action, how would you feel if it was your £6m?

Whatís a bit rich is then claiming youíve pumped £xm + into an organisation when in real terms you have had income from a defaulted transaction.
Is that someone you would want to do business with?

Not saying I'd want to do business with them but I don't have much empathy with a Chinese company I know nothing about, if they were silly enough to part with it.
If it's true then it's an absolute masterstroke and I'll perhaps use them if I wanted to make some easy cash. Not sure I'd consult with them on how to run a success football club though. They all have their strengths. Wasn't Dozey into cemeteries? These wheeler dealer types always have an angle for their next buck.
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« Reply #29615 on: October 14, 2021, 12:05:15 pm »

https://www.newhotelend.com/what-next

Very disappointed by this. Maybe my thoughts on what a fan led initiative is are different to other peoples.
Essentially all that has happened is they have made up some drawings, made up some scenarios and said over to you NTFC / Trust.
What happened to the further investigations that were mentioned? It didnt say anything about asking the club to run with it or even the Trust.
I appreciate its peoples times etc but to blame the club and the Trust for it being shelved isn't fair on either. If they had completed all the investigations and passed on something more than a back of an envelope concept then maybe.

This came with a very professional feel, a lot of fan fare with articles in the Chron and also from the club I think but essentially was no substance and not even slightly fan led.

Yeah, that's how I read it. Sounds like a couple of individuals with a vision but not the time, resources, inclination and probably knowledge required to really push it on and make something happen.
They make fair points though that without the Club and/or Trust (especially the Club) sponsoring and getting behind any type of ground development, any fan led scheme would be difficult to really get behind.
I'm sure if the right facility was built and marketed, promoted and run effectively it would soon pay for itself. We've seen events at the Saints and County Ground (I'm surprised there hasn't been more) that seem to be well attended. We even had Simple Minds play at Delapre Abbey. It would also bring that safe standing which I'm sure would be popular and improve the atmosphere.
It'd be great to see some decent acts in town, as opposed to driving to London and Birmingham all the time.
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Manwork04
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« Reply #29616 on: October 14, 2021, 12:06:51 pm »

Not saying I'd want to do business with them but I don't have much empathy with a Chinese company I know nothing about, if they were silly enough to part with it.
If it's true then it's an absolute masterstroke and I'll perhaps use them if I wanted to make some easy cash. Not sure I'd consult with them on how to run a success football club though. They all have their strengths. Wasn't Dozey into cemeteries? These wheeler dealer types always have an angle for their next buck.
Very true mate, always treading a fine line between what legal and whatís not.
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« Reply #29617 on: October 14, 2021, 12:26:29 pm »

ref new hotel end...
No mention of asking the club for money. Surely step 3 is when we would have been asked to contribute (although would have to support 1 and 2)
So the clubs position was known from the outset, and the same from the Trust.

"The clubís insistence that this was a 100% fan-led scheme with little initial organisational and no funding support from NTFC relied solely on our will and that has been diminished to an extent,"

The Club were asked if they were willing to contribute the same amount that the Trust were....
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« Reply #29618 on: October 14, 2021, 12:46:35 pm »

THE TRUST HAVE THE PROOF.
WHY DONT YOU ASK THEM.

I did ask them.  Many times.  The most recent being yesterday!  Do you know what they said?  You should do because I posted it on here several months ago.  "The Trust Board is satisfied that the evidence of the payments in the amounts stated is accurate."  That's it.  Is that a good enough answer?

And you think the club are bad at answering questions.

Here's some facts for you.  The Trust Board, again note the distinction between board and membership, were in possession of this information last summer 2020.  It wasn't only shared with the membership/wider fanbase this summer 2021 and when I say shared I mean we were told about it not shown any actual evidence.  Is that ok, comfortable with that?  If it's so damning why wait nearly a year and even then they only told you about it because people had become aware of it's existence.

As the Trust have stated DB hasn't sued them despite having a string of law firms so they should be perfectly comfortable with producing all the evidence and explaining how/where they got it from.

Apparently in summer 2020 they were so concerned about the information they wrote to KT to challenge him about it.  Discussions took place via letter and meetings where it was discussed.  Do you know what was said?  Nope neither do I or anyone else other than the Trust Board and the club.  WE ONLY know this conversation even happened because KT released a copy of the letter he wrote to the Trust Board in response to their concerns.   Again you comfortable with that?  Open, honest, transparent?

Coincidently that summer 2020 someone was hawking the evidence around local and national press.

You might ask if this evidence is so damning it should be shared with the relevant authorities be that Police, HMRC, Companies House, the football league and I'm sure there are potentially others.  Did this happen?  The trust wouldn't answer and said "The Trust is regulated by the Financial Conduct Authority and complies with its reporting obligations."  So is that a yes/no/maybe?  If it was reported to anyone what was the outcome?

So going back to when they challenged KT in the late summer of 2020.  The Trust have made their position clear.  They have grave concerns regarding the chinese deal and the financial transactions that took place.  They rightly have concerns that the club was sold without anyone telling them.  Basically they don't trust the owners as far as they could throw them.  So what did they do next?  Tell it's membership, provide evidence of the wrong doings.....nope get this and this is simply bizarre and frankly unbelievable.  Just weeks later...  

THEY PUBLICLY RELEASED A JOINT STATEMENT WITH THE OWNERS AND BACKED THE EAST STAND DEVELOPMENT DEAL!!!!

You couldn't make this up.

And that's not even mentioning that this is the EXACT SAME DEAL/PLANS that are on the table TODAY!

And you wonder why I have questions?

Everyone happy with all that?  Is that what you expect from your representatives?  If it is well you are in luck because that's what you have.

And I'm the bad guy for challenging this and asking for much better from them.  As Deepcut said is it really expected that ordinary supporters should have to "pull" this information out of the Trust?

Finally to head of the usual supsects that are about to ignore everything I have written and say "Are happy that the club act this way or why don't you challenge the club".  No I'm not happy and I have challenged the club.  But think about how flawed that kind of thinking is.  You are essentially saying everything I have said above is ok because that's what the owners are like.
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Deepcut Cobbler
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« Reply #29619 on: October 14, 2021, 12:53:12 pm »

I would have thought information like that isnít for the public domain, not to mention most arenít interested.
The trust have evidenced it so there you go, the smoking gun.

If it's not for the public domain, then it's a waste of time an ordinary member asking for it?
How do you know that 'most aren't interested'?  I haven't asked for it, but if it was made available, I'd have a look to see if I could decipher it in order to make my own judgement.
So, the 'evidence' that The Trust Board is using, in an attempt to persuade us, isn't available for perusal or public consumption?

What happened to the £6m 'Chinese Money' that allegedly disappeared from the records?
Was it a legal or non-legal activity? If non-legal, is it being pursued by anyone?

Answers that include the terms (or similar to) "we believe/we assume/in our opinion/we know/from our limited knowledge/they haven't challenged us" etc... are not the answers that I am looking for.
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ďThey shall grow not old as we that are left grow old:
Age shall not weary them, nor the years condemn.
At the going down of the sun and in the morning
We will remember them.Ē Laurence Binyon

The Hotelend Grand National Sweepstake Champion 2009
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