The Hotel End
March 28, 2024, 14:52:58 pm
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.
Did you miss your activation email?

Login with username, password and session length
News:
 
  Home Help Search Arcade Downloads Gallery Links Staff List Calendar Login Register Chat  

Redevelopment Closer Than Ever?

Pages: 1 ... 1481 1482 1483 1484 1485 1486 1487 [1488] 1489 1490 1491 1492 1493 1494 1495 ... 2181   Go Down
  Print  
Author Topic: Redevelopment Closer Than Ever?  (Read 1819855 times)
0 Members and 26 Guests are viewing this topic.
guest3429
Guest

Badges: (View All)
« Reply #29740 on: October 26, 2021, 15:11:40 pm »

I’m sorry but this is wishful thinking.
The land that the structure would stand on would belong to the club owner not the fans.

The idea is commendable but unworkable.
Owners with ambition and foresight would probably consider this a wise move but asking fans to do it when the owners don’t seem keen is not the way to go imo.

You never know what’s round the corner in football
Fans could chip in their money , new owners could come in , the club could be badly run and then liquidated.
You’d get £0 of the money back that you invested and the area could be bulldozed for housing.

If this idea is to get off the ground it would need owners who believe in it.
Have you asked David bower what he thinks of it?

He may be able to tell you if it’s a good idea or not.

If a new owner came in he would be within his rights not to honour any previous arrangements (for example KT wanting the trust rep off of the board)
Thus there is no way an offer of a percentage discount for life would be legally applicable.

I appreciate your opinion of course but many far fetched ifs, buts and maybes and nothing we are not aware of already and certainly not unworkable.

The land is not for sale? Do you or a member of the Trust have a copy of the lease and boundaries? What huge change or planning applications do you envisage to the north stand section in the next 25 years, considering the previous?

Are the bulldozers on the horizon? Owners may come and go but fans do not, leases are exchanged and caveats can be created especially within community led projects. I have a hotel on leased land that would never normally be available, the land is not for sale at any price. Works fine, make money out of the situation or just stare at it!

With regard to "life" club or Trust membership, I'm sure the Trust are not dying out soon nor the club for that matter.

Nothing to fear from this plan other than fear itself. I understand you would not participate that's fine, its not for everyone.

Report Spam   Logged
Carton Lid
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 1817


View Profile
Badges: (View All)
Third year Anniversary Level 5 Apple User
« Reply #29741 on: October 26, 2021, 15:19:41 pm »


But as the owners have clearly laid out their plans,
Do they ?
Report Spam   Logged
guest3429
Guest

Badges: (View All)
« Reply #29742 on: October 26, 2021, 15:20:34 pm »

The New Hotel End Did....
The bit I have highlighted is key to me and what I said above, we / The Trust / The NHE / Whoever it is, need to demonstrate the benefit with actual case studies, costings, P&L, letters of intent, etc before the owners will entertain anything.  We've seen they have to see profit before doing anything with the disagreement over what is developed first, the land or the stand. This is what I thought the NHE were doing since their grand unveiling. I dont think it will take much for them or anyone else to pick it back up, use crowdfunding to pay for the business case before going back to the club. Bit like Dragons den.

Absolutely needs to be a solid front and work together.

I would be very happy to provide a business plan that would make absolute sense to KT, The NHE has popped the cork so to speak but the plan looking from a business angle for me doesn't create a 365 day income and a true fans home supporters would be proud of and use all year round.

This project would embrace the whole local community surrounding Sixfields and be usable for everyone including local residents.
Report Spam   Logged
Shoemaker
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 6889


View Profile
Badges: (View All)
Combination Topic Starter Poll Voter
« Reply #29743 on: October 26, 2021, 15:31:42 pm »

I appreciate your opinion of course but many far fetched ifs, buts and maybes and nothing we are not aware of already and certainly not unworkable.

The land is not for sale? Do you or a member of the Trust have a copy of the lease and boundaries? What huge change or planning applications do you envisage to the north stand section in the next 25 years, considering the previous?

Are the bulldozers on the horizon? Owners may come and go but fans do not, leases are exchanged and caveats can be created especially within community led projects. I have a hotel on leased land that would never normally be available, the land is not for sale at any price. Works fine, make money out of the situation or just stare at it!

With regard to "life" club or Trust membership, I'm sure the Trust are not dying out soon nor the club for that matter.

Nothing to fear from this plan other than fear itself. I understand you would not participate that's fine, its not for everyone.


Good luck with it
Try contacting Tom cliffe the fans rep.
He will be the one in a position to help the fans raise their issues directly to the board….
Report Spam   Logged
Terryfenwickatemyhamster
Administrator
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 5106


View Profile
Badges: (View All)
5000 Posts Level 6 Windows User
« Reply #29744 on: October 26, 2021, 15:42:19 pm »

Anything that gets us back on track as supporters. And involves everyone, I’m more than up for giving it serious thought.
Report Spam   Logged
guest3359
Guest

Badges: (View All)
« Reply #29745 on: October 26, 2021, 15:51:09 pm »

Do they ?
They have laid out their plans, you might not like them, but they have laid them out. So anything additional such as a fan village, development of the north stand, any of the other good suggestions in the generally positive messages above, will need to be presented to them in the way that we have all been discussing.

Try engaging in the wider positive discussion and not looking for the one sentence that you can poke and leave sarcastic comments too. Even those above who have their reservations about any proposals, the way it can be funded etc have engaged in good debate. I think with Keith joining the discussion, Random taking a new approach, as well as many others (myself included) take a more engaging tone,  there has been a lot of good discussions happening, still with differences of opinion. We're all here for the same reason
Report Spam   Logged
guest3359
Guest

Badges: (View All)
« Reply #29746 on: October 26, 2021, 15:56:36 pm »

Good luck with it
Try contacting Tom cliffe the fans rep.
He will be the one in a position to help the fans raise their issues directly to the board….
Agree with this. Can help the fans engage with the board but also feed back what the board would want to see to form the business case etc
Report Spam   Logged
guest3429
Guest

Badges: (View All)
« Reply #29747 on: October 26, 2021, 16:29:11 pm »

OK, my last run at it for today, getting late here time for bed!

It’s going to be incredibly difficult to describe the development without having visual plans which will take some time. If somebody jumps in before me and builds a new north stand in the next six months fair play. Grin

Imagine a large open spacious airy first floor concourse, with tall glass panels to the façade creating a bright open feel, opening glass doors leading out to a convex curved outside balcony to the front offering good weather seating and viewing.

To one end a striking copper clad micro-brewery proudly polished and in full view behind a long full width stylish bar offering a full range of drinks, food and of course our own (carbon negative) craft beers all in a sumptuous carpeted area. Open from 10am (every day except match day) offering superb breakfasts, lunches, coffees, teas through to Sunday roasts. Sundays  Wink

The surroundings have the feel of a stylish café or coffee shop with comfortable sofas, tables, carpets even table lamps and co-working spaces, intimate areas, perfect for families going to the cinema, friends to meet chill out.

To the opposite end to the bar a raised stage area for entertainment, bands, every possibility you can think of, but in normal use chairs and tables for dining, on Saturday night The Bonzo Dog do Da Band, on Wednesday night Sticky Ribs and coleslaw!

Of course most of this furniture disappears on match day to designed storage areas in this multipurpose venue. The private (Brian Lomax) suites viewing the pitch offer further opportunities as part of a whole event, match entertainment and can be accessed directly into the venue, the wedding table in the suite the dancing and party in the venue.

The Trust (Us) would proudly share pitch viewing offices, admin centre and part of the venue management suite where visitors or those interested in our community venture can be welcomed in luxury and comfort, no more draughty town halls for meetings, lattes all round.

I give you the ultimate 365 day a year community clubhouse that makes a huge annual profit.

When the visuals come out and its in the papers and on social media around the world I’m sure 2000 or so will want to spend just £500 (the first deposit) to have their name proudly displayed on such a building, the momentum will go from there. Nowhere they can turn really?

You can legally make plans on any property regardless of ownership so nothing ventured...the community own it anyway we just want to use it for a more worthwhile purpose, we will pay for the alterations ourselves.
Report Spam   Logged
Terryfenwickatemyhamster
Administrator
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 5106


View Profile
Badges: (View All)
5000 Posts Level 6 Windows User
« Reply #29748 on: October 27, 2021, 07:16:31 am »

This is what you have to get by.

https://icsesolutions.com/the-cold-within-summary/

Each time we seem to make any progress. We are confronted by some seriously entrenched views. Unless people come from a place of trust and compromise, any progress will flat on its face. I genuinely believe, and have all along, that there is a real desire for progress on all sides. Of course as always with these things individual motivations will differ. But that should not be allowed to detract from the objective. Let’s say I have adopted a cautiously optimistic mode regarding the ability of the parties involved to embrace it as a challenge, rather than a threat…

Report Spam   Logged
guest3429
Guest

Badges: (View All)
« Reply #29749 on: October 28, 2021, 09:39:15 am »

Thanks Tel, fortunately there's no chance of me freezing here so Ill pick up all the sticks and sharpen them before returning next year, armed!

I have witnessed many similar issues with opening new venues, I do understand many of the stubborn obstacles having completed several successful business plans for Scottish & Newcastle retail in the past.

Having discussed this with several long in the tooth professionals, all running entertainment and hotel businesses as I do and also a senior member of a national pub chain development company, we all have the same conclusion. I'm not too sure that some close to the club, supporters and Trust members understand what a golden egg they possibly sit on?

I'm not too sure even KT is truly aware, lack of local knowledge can be a huge factor. Whatever reason he is dedicating his stewardship to the matters in front of him.

We have one unanimous opinion. Given a venue of this size, location and potential, with a massive head start of 46,000+ guaranteed through the door annually, we would all take it on. Set within a short distance of so many customers and with the options available to offer the broader local community in a venue this size its a £40,000 a week average turnover, even if Geema was in charge.(I'm not suggesting this by the way.)

I have one or two advantages to others when I come swinging this prospectus around, I'm not local anymore and my business and life are not in any jeopardy from speaking out and making some noise. I have no fear in causing embarrassment if necessary.

I'll be seeing you in the New Year sometime.  Wink
Report Spam   Logged
guest168
Guest

Badges: (View All)
« Reply #29750 on: October 28, 2021, 10:30:51 am »

Totally agree Steve, my frustrations in a nutshell.

We have such an opportunity, we have a large catchment area and no Man U on our doorstep, AND our council looking to create a £20m income from a land sale in the club's name.

I know many fans just want the bloody East stand finished !!!  I don't blame them but the question is.....

Will a £3m basic East stand development move us forward? 

Looking at the plans, coupled with just 200 extra seats, I really don't think it will push us forward much at all.

We will be just catching up with others in L2, and still long way behind L1. Executive boxes are certainly needed but every other club has them

s*** boro just had 4000 QPR fans at their game Saturday. (yes I know that is Championship)

For £20m we need more, we must demand more from KT and WNC, otherwise history will continue to repeat itself.
Report Spam   Logged
Shoemaker
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 6889


View Profile
Badges: (View All)
Combination Topic Starter Poll Voter
« Reply #29751 on: October 28, 2021, 10:39:22 am »

Has anyone on here considered that the owners may be content to make their profit from the land sale and aren’t interested in spending money on schemes such as this.

Again there are a lot of ideas but has anyone actually approached the owners for their opinions , this may come as a shock to some but it is their opinion that counts and as of yet I’ve not seen anyone approach them for comment.

It’s as if the fan base are full of ideas but unwilling to run them past the owners.

It doesn’t matter one jot how much support is garnered for an idea if the owners aren’t onside

Can I respectfully ask that before any more is posted on this issue we can at least gauge David’s feelings towards it , that way we can ascertain if it’s a great idea or a waste of time

Nothing can be done without David’s agreement.
Who has asked him??
Report Spam   Logged
guest3359
Guest

Badges: (View All)
« Reply #29752 on: October 28, 2021, 11:07:05 am »

Shoemaker, posted this a couple of days ago but the NHE team spoke to Kelvin and James Whiting

https://www.northamptonchron.co.uk/sport/football/the-new-hotel-end-cobblers-fans-launch-ambitious-project-to-create-landmark-safe-standing-end-at-sixfields-3272334

As said before, my take was they would be open to anything that can be proven to be beneficial (why wouldn't they) but wouldn't get involved in the analysis, due diligence etc. They would need something oven ready   Evil
Report Spam   Logged
guest168
Guest

Badges: (View All)
« Reply #29753 on: October 28, 2021, 11:13:48 am »

Has anyone on here considered that the owners may be content to make their profit from the land sale and aren’t interested in spending money on schemes such as this.

Again there are a lot of ideas but has anyone actually approached the owners for their opinions , this may come as a shock to some but it is their opinion that counts and as of yet I’ve not seen anyone approach them for comment.

It’s as if the fan base are full of ideas but unwilling to run them past the owners.

It doesn’t matter one jot how much support is garnered for an idea if the owners aren’t onside

Can I respectfully ask that before any more is posted on this issue we can at least gauge David’s feelings towards it , that way we can ascertain if it’s a great idea or a waste of time

Nothing can be done without David’s agreement.
Who has asked him??



The owners haven't to date, done any development on the stadium and the East stand certainly lacks any wow or modern ideas or thinking IMHO.

They have put £6m into the club accounts so I don't expect anything development wise otherwise they surely would have done something by now.

An Infrastructure Foundation in partnership with WNC and the club could redevelop Sixfields into something to be proud of and fit for purpose  

Report Spam   Logged
Risdene
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 692


View Profile
Badges: (View All)
Third year Anniversary Search Level 4
« Reply #29754 on: October 28, 2021, 11:55:32 am »

My distant amateur opinion is DB/KT have progressed the lease paperwork and financed the working debt BUT nothing else!

WNC can recover NBC's debt with a land deal with DB/KT BUT must include a clause that the East Stand with Executive Boxes, Conference Centre and Hotel before the land deal is completed!

My question to WNC and DB/KT is WHEN?

NTFC suppoerters and local taxpayers have waited long enough!

PS- When will the CPS make a decision?
Report Spam   Logged
BedsCobb
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 3343


View Profile
Badges: (View All)
Eighth year Anniversary Combination Topic Starter
« Reply #29755 on: October 28, 2021, 12:10:13 pm »

Thanks Manny, if only those who sit at the various tables shared our vision!

I was hoping with the formation of the Trust we would eventually see some tangible developments and benefits for the fans of NTFC, ways we could contribute, a more secure long term future for the club with additional investment (ring-fenced from owners) and spent directly on benefits for the club and fans but honestly I’m not sure what has actually been achieved?  Its time they stood up.

The plan I have, and the Trust are welcome to it, would not only be a catalyst for them but realise vital funds for the club and that is to build a home, a business, a stand.

A prominent development, in this case a fans, Trust built stand is the way forward. A rough visual pitch side comparison would be the Homeserve stand at Walsall however their original lower tier is larger than our existing north stand tier and therefore the Homeserve stand sits somewhat higher. Ours would be so much more beautiful.

They added just over 2000 seats to the upper tier and boxes behind the original structure. Creating an upper tier provides a roof for the important section underneath, my plan a multi functioning 365 day enterprise, a home for the new prominent Trust and an everyday meeting place for fans with a bar selling its own product, an attraction in itself.

Creating an open plan visual, well-polished copper clad working micro-brewery at the east end with its own bar, kitchens and hospitality could provide a bar venue experience open 7 days a week. With a versatile stage area at the opposite (west) end capable of providing for a band or additional match day areas, wedding singers, whatever. Just as the NHE envisaged but somewhat more professional and practical for everyday use.

The upper concourse itself obviously capable of accommodating 2000 people so versatile for almost any event, even an Indian wedding! Being on the first floor, level with the back of the current north stand even a balcony area could be provided to the front aspect so customers at events or even match day could enjoy a beer outside in the right weather.

The pitch viewing private boxes or VIP areas (Brian Lomax Suite) could be sold individually or even integrated as part of bigger events, the Trust also having a pitch facing home, admin management centre and real base to finally grow from. Full time jobs created within the brewery, bars and management.

Funding? “Sell” the 2000 seats for £1500 each, frankly that's bugger all and I would wager there are enough of us fans scattered around the globe who would love to “buy a seat” to build a new stand. Only 1999 to go as I’m in!

They will tell me it’s not possible, but they've never tried.

Sorry SMM, I didnt mean railed seating,
  I hate the thought of railed seating, it only existed to allow clubs to sell expensive seats for standing.
My wish would be for an old school terracing that is safe and well stewarded.
During this Cardoza Thomas era, getting more fans in the ground is not a priority,  so they mumble on about a few boxes that if they ever see the light of day would cost a fortune for very little return.
Our club, to survive as a L1 club must have the ability to sell a ticket to everyone who wishes to attend, several times a L1 season this isnt possible.
Also a more attractive professional looking stadium that creates a good atmosphere would invariably attract many more fans.
By all means encourage supporters to a fan a village but at the same time making sure the ground ends up looking more professional  by eliminating it's current non league features and vibes, which currently put off 1000s from paying good money to visit.
Report Spam   Logged
Zen Master
Hero Member
*****
Online Online

Posts: 3029


Taxi to Kings Heath mate?


View Profile
Badges: (View All)
Level 6 Search Apple User
« Reply #29756 on: October 28, 2021, 12:24:07 pm »

Meanwhile our egg chasing neighbours down the road push on with improving their facilities.

https://www.northamptonchron.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/saints-bid-to-build-new-training-facility-3435667
Report Spam   Logged

I think someone should just take this city of Peterborough and just... just flush it down the f***in' toilet

The Hotelend Grand National Sweepstake Champion 2022
everbrite
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 20217


Steve Howard best since Cliff Holton


View Profile
Badges: (View All)
20000 Posts Search Apple User
« Reply #29757 on: October 28, 2021, 12:47:25 pm »

OK, my last run at it for today, getting late here time for bed!

It’s going to be incredibly difficult to describe the development without having visual plans which will take some time. If somebody jumps in before me and builds a new north stand in the next six months fair play. Grin

Imagine a large open spacious airy first floor concourse, with tall glass panels to the façade creating a bright open feel, opening glass doors leading out to a convex curved outside balcony to the front offering good weather seating and viewing.

To one end a striking copper clad micro-brewery proudly polished and in full view behind a long full width stylish bar offering a full range of drinks, food and of course our own (carbon negative) craft beers all in a sumptuous carpeted area. Open from 10am (every day except match day) offering superb breakfasts, lunches, coffees, teas through to Sunday roasts. Sundays  Wink

The surroundings have the feel of a stylish café or coffee shop with comfortable sofas, tables, carpets even table lamps and co-working spaces, intimate areas, perfect for families going to the cinema, friends to meet chill out.

To the opposite end to the bar a raised stage area for entertainment, bands, every possibility you can think of, but in normal use chairs and tables for dining, on Saturday night The Bonzo Dog do Da Band, on Wednesday night Sticky Ribs and coleslaw!

Of course most of this furniture disappears on match day to designed storage areas in this multipurpose venue. The private (Brian Lomax) suites viewing the pitch offer further opportunities as part of a whole event, match entertainment and can be accessed directly into the venue, the wedding table in the suite the dancing and party in the venue.

The Trust (Us) would proudly share pitch viewing offices, admin centre and part of the venue management suite where visitors or those interested in our community venture can be welcomed in luxury and comfort, no more draughty town halls for meetings, lattes all round.

I give you the ultimate 365 day a year community clubhouse that makes a huge annual profit.

When the visuals come out and its in the papers and on social media around the world I’m sure 2000 or so will want to spend just £500 (the first deposit) to have their name proudly displayed on such a building, the momentum will go from there. Nowhere they can turn really?

You can legally make plans on any property regardless of ownership so nothing ventured...the community own it anyway we just want to use it for a more worthwhile purpose, we will pay for the alterations ourselves.


Please give an estimate on yr proposed stand scheme.
Report Spam   Logged

2020 Grand National S/S 3rd Place
guest3429
Guest

Badges: (View All)
« Reply #29758 on: October 28, 2021, 13:03:11 pm »

Sorry SMM, I didnt mean railed seating,
  I hate the thought of railed seating, it only existed to allow clubs to sell expensive seats for standing.
My wish would be for an old school terracing that is safe and well stewarded.
During this Cardoza Thomas era, getting more fans in the ground is not a priority,  so they mumble on about a few boxes that if they ever see the light of day would cost a fortune for very little return.
Our club, to survive as a L1 club must have the ability to sell a ticket to everyone who wishes to attend, several times a L1 season this isnt possible.
Also a more attractive professional looking stadium that creates a good atmosphere would invariably attract many more fans.
By all means encourage supporters to a fan a village but at the same time making sure the ground ends up looking more professional  by eliminating it's current non league features and vibes, which currently put off 1000s from paying good money to visit.


I'm with you all the way on atmosphere Beds, but it don't pay the bills, this plan is all about maximum yield.

KT, the club can decide what they wish with the lower north tier, this venture will not affect its normal use. Alterations to the rear will be necessary but wont affect the club or its revenue stream in any way during construction.

The upper tier will be 12' higher than the existing lower tier and the design absolutely needs seats in this area, there is an exciting twist to this which I cant reveal.

The atmosphere will come from the upper tier being 100% full for every game.
Report Spam   Logged
guest3429
Guest

Badges: (View All)
« Reply #29759 on: October 28, 2021, 13:03:51 pm »

Please give an estimate on yr proposed stand scheme.

£3.25m
Report Spam   Logged
Pages: 1 ... 1481 1482 1483 1484 1485 1486 1487 [1488] 1489 1490 1491 1492 1493 1494 1495 ... 2181   Go Up
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Powered by EzPortal
Parental guidance is urged as this messageboard may not be suitable for all persons especially those under the age of 16 as the forums may contain words, phrases and expressions not considered appropriate for a younger audience so please express caution. If any posts in the forums offend you, please let us know and we will look at them and if we agree with your complaint, we will remove them. You are personally responsible and potentially liable for the contents of your posting and may be sued should your posting contain content of a defamatory or other illegal nature. Every message posted leaves a traceable IP number. We check the forums at various times of the day and remove offending posts. Other supporters are welcome but abusive or silly posts will be removed and the offenders potentially barred from future access to the site. We advise that you never reveal any personal information about yourself or anyone else (for example: telephone number, home address or email address), and please do not include postal addresses of any kind. This messageboard is not endorsed or in any way affiliated with Northampton Town FC. All postings on this board become copyright of The Hotel End & may not be reproduced without the permission of the board administrator. By signing up to this message board you agree to this. The Hotel End cannot be held liable for the actions or postings of its members. The Hotel End reserve the right to edit, delete, move or close any thread for any reason. The Hotel End may disclose user information to government authorities at their discretion or when required by law. The Hotel End may also disclose user information when The Hotel End has reason to believe that someone is causing injury to or interference with its rights or property, other The Hotel End users, or anyone else that could be harmed by such activities. By registering for The Hotel End, you agree to indemnify The Hotel End its representatives, and agents, and hold them harmless from any and all claims (including claims for legal fees) which may arise from your participation on the The Hotel End. You also agree that The Hotel End is not responsible for the materials posted by users of The Hotel End. In addition, you grant The Hotel End and its affiliates, worldwide, royalty-free perpetual, irrevocable, non-exclusive right and license to use, reproduce, modify, adapt, publish, translate, create derivative works from, distribute, perform and display any message or content posted on The Hotel End and/or e-mail sent by you to The Hotel End (in whole or in part). The Hotel End reserves the right to make the rules up as it goes along. Thank you - The Hotel End I love Quidco
Bookmark this site!
Powered by SMF | SMF © 2016, Simple Machines
Privacy Policy