Melbourne Cobbler
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Or maybe. if we had better management we wouldn't be losing nearly £1M every year, every time I visit to Sixfields I struggle to see where we've spent £7M when clubs with fan bases half our size break even or are in profit.
Dont mean to be argumentative, but according to the Deloitte report for 2021 there are virtually no clubs in the entire football league operating on the basis you describe. The latest figures for Division 2 show a operating loss of 19 million (or £800k per club average). Division 1 shows average operating losses of 2 million per club. Given we have spent a couple of seasons in division 1 our figures are pretty much bang on average. Based on expenditure alone our figures suggest we should have achieved promotions but haven’t spent enough to sustain the position so would be relegated. That’s my interpretation anyway. https://www2.deloitte.com/uk/en/pages/sports-business-group/articles/annual-review-of-football-finance.htmlIn conclusion based on expenditure you need to incur loses of £800k per season to finish mid table in Division 2 and losses £2 million per season to finish mid table in Division 1.
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« Last Edit: November 25, 2021, 07:42:10 am by Melbourne Cobbler »
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Not a real supporter but unelected chair of the Northampton Town Honorary Supporters Club. (Please note: any opinions given may not necessarily be shared by proper supporters. In incidents of conflict the views of real supporters shall take precedence).
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Shoemaker
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There will always be a spanner in the works with our council. They are not fit for purpose and have never really helped the Cobblers out (other than alleged dodgy deals) like other town councils have with their football clubs. Nothing surprises me anymore and as long as the Saints are doing well that's all most of them really care about. If KT said enough is enough I would hardly blame him. The Trust will be happy with this latest saga, so all is well with the world.
As has been said already A £10 million pound loan ….., Hardly never helped in my book. The council will be crucified if they let the land go for under market value (and rightly so) Everything needs to be transparent regards this deal. Forget the club , the owners , the councils future depends on this and they cannot afford to mess this up. There is too much at risk for them going forwards…, Get this wrong and central government will be all over them like a rash and heads will roll. That’s not my opinion It’s a fact The local taxpayers who couldn’t care less about the club need to see that the council are not messing up once again (I call allowing four different tranches of cash to be drawn down without first looking at construction progress a mess up) If the council do mess up they’ll be out on their ear and the county will be run by central government, The local council won’t fancy that one bit.
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Deepcut Cobbler
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Another delay….
Quel surprise……
Il soon be able to buy the club with the money I’ve saved due to my exile thanks to my suspicious mind
You 'disappeared' the last time that I queried your exile and you still haven't responded. Are you sure that you aren't incarcerated at Her Majesty's Pleasure and using your self imposed boycott as cover? Surely you must be eligible for parole soon?
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“They shall grow not old as we that are left grow old: Age shall not weary them, nor the years condemn. At the going down of the sun and in the morning We will remember them.” Laurence Binyon
The Hotelend Grand National Sweepstake Champion 2009
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guest3338
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Dont mean to be argumentative, but according to the Deloitte report for 2021 there are virtually no clubs in the entire football league operating on the basis you describe. The latest figures for Division 2 show a operating loss of 19 million (or £800k per club average). Division 1 shows average operating losses of 2 million per club. Given we have spent a couple of seasons in division 1 our figures are pretty much bang on average. Based on expenditure alone our figures suggest we should have achieved promotions but haven’t spent enough to sustain the position so would be relegated. That’s my interpretation anyway. https://www2.deloitte.com/uk/en/pages/sports-business-group/articles/annual-review-of-football-finance.htmlIn conclusion based on expenditure you need to incur loses of £800k per season to finish mid table in Division 2 and losses £2 million per season to finish mid table in Division 1. It's clear that most clubs in the Championship overspend but the picture is less clear in leagues one and two. Average operating losses of 800k and 2million are indicative of the league as a whole but not necessarily of individual clubs, there is not enough evidence in that report to say anymore. It would be interesting to see a league table of operating losses alongside the actual final league table for divisions one and two. Quite possible that a mid point finish in the league does not equate to an 800k loss even if there is a direct correlation between loss and finishing league position. One or two big overspends could easily squew that. The only thing I would draw from the report is that as a club we happen to mirror the average loss. That's not necessarily the same as the median loss or the mode for the division. I think Cartons point could be a valid one.
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guest49
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Some of these clubs (ours included) inflict a lot of the cost by paying compo to managers and staff that they regularly offload mid-contract. It's clearly far from easy to run a lower league club on an even keel but in any context we haven't seen a lot for our current balance. If you just wanted to make some money you'd have better odds in the casino.
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Carton Lid
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I think Exeter posted a £3M profit last year, Newport County, Accrington and Morecambe with less than half our fan base don't lose £800K a year. NTFC did run as a break even business for a few years under DC so why cant we now ?
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CobblerForever
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I think Exeter posted a £3M profit last year, Newport County, Accrington and Morecambe with less than half our fan base don't lose £800K a year. NTFC did run as a break even business for a few years under DC so why cant we now ?
Exeter City; Transfer Fees Received = £4,949,982 Operating Loss (which doesn't include the transfer fees figure above) = £1,415,479 Profit Before Tax = £3,589,174 Year Ended 30th June 2021
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« Last Edit: November 25, 2021, 11:21:11 am by CobblerForever »
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guest2608
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I think Exeter posted a £3M profit last year, Newport County, Accrington and Morecambe with less than half our fan base don't lose £800K a year. NTFC did run as a break even business for a few years under DC so why cant we now ?
Probably because we all squeal like slit piglets if we havent signed 22 Ronaldos by July 1st every summer….. I know some clubs get lucky with getting it right…. We have occasionally. However, not spending and being successful on the pitch rarely go hand in hand do they? Spend…. Why are we in debt? Don’t spend…. Owners are milking the fans. Success…. Why aren’t we spending our extra cash? Failure….. we bought the wrong players, sack the manager….. more cost and so it goes on.
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Melbourne Cobbler
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I think it’s quite possible for individual clubs to buck the trend in certain years. The sale of a particularly talented player, a decent cup run, a promotion. However, the point is that the year on year reports present an alarming picture and the figures represent a general trend that very few clubs escape from over a 3 to 5 year period. There will always be exceptions, but to suggest that it is perfectly achievable for all clubs to break even or turn a profit over multiple seasons and attain success is proven to be nonsense, sorry.
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Not a real supporter but unelected chair of the Northampton Town Honorary Supporters Club. (Please note: any opinions given may not necessarily be shared by proper supporters. In incidents of conflict the views of real supporters shall take precedence).
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Carton Lid
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There will always be exceptions, but to suggest that it is perfectly achievable for all clubs to break even or turn a profit over multiple seasons and attain success is proven to be nonsense, sorry.
I'm not suggesting that it's achievable for ALL clubs to break even, BUT, we are a big fish in a small pond and with our fan base we should be a lot better off that most of our League 2 compatriots. I will admit our lack of facilities does hold us back but I question if we use the facilities we do have to our full advantage.
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Melbourne Cobbler
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I'm not suggesting that it's achievable for ALL clubs to break even, BUT, we are a big fish in a small pond and with our fan base we should be a lot better off that most of our League 2 compatriots. I will admit our lack of facilities does hold us back but I question if we use the facilities we do have to our full advantage.
The way I look at it is whatever the average is tends to be the benchmark for the trading conditions. The overwhelming majority of clubs in league 1 & 2 lose considerable sums. Morecambe as you point out are one of the better performers but their year on losses over the last 2 years on the published accounts are still around 400k per year. It’s a bit of an issue with me because I fear football will implode eventually in the lower divisions without a financial reset. Chances are if you operate within your means you rule out any sort of sustainable success and that can’t be right.
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Not a real supporter but unelected chair of the Northampton Town Honorary Supporters Club. (Please note: any opinions given may not necessarily be shared by proper supporters. In incidents of conflict the views of real supporters shall take precedence).
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Deepcut Cobbler
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Can we just get the East Stand completed in whatever form? I've lost interest in the rest of it. Will we be changing our name to Northampton City if the agenda item that we have been 'bumped' for is successful?
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“They shall grow not old as we that are left grow old: Age shall not weary them, nor the years condemn. At the going down of the sun and in the morning We will remember them.” Laurence Binyon
The Hotelend Grand National Sweepstake Champion 2009
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BackOfTheNet
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Exeter City;
Transfer Fees Received = £4,949,982
Operating Loss (which doesn't include the transfer fees figure above) = £1,415,479
Profit Before Tax = £3,589,174
Year Ended 30th June 2021
Thanks for digging that out. I posted something similar ages ago but couldn't find it the last time someone cited Exeter as a financial success story. I seem to remember they had been in the black for a few years but when you looked at the numbers they were still losing a good chunk of cash each year but it was being offset by dipping into the funds they received from selling a player for some serious money. I'm not knocking them, fair play to them, they've clearly done well in the transfer market but you can't base your operating model around selling a really good player every few years. Yes, of course you can invest in upcoming players and tie them up to long term deals hoping they come good (a la Chesterfield with Tshimanga) and if it pays off everyone pats you on the back and applauds a superb bit of business, but if they do their ACL three games in and never play for you again you look an absolute mug and are financially screwed. There's a massive element of luck involved in that sort of thing, especially at our sort of level.
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The Hotelend Grand National* Sweepstake Champion 2020
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BackOfTheNet
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Can we just get the East Stand completed in whatever form?
I think most fans would take your hand off if they were offered that.
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The Hotelend Grand National* Sweepstake Champion 2020
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CobblerForever
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The way I look at it is whatever the average is tends to be the benchmark for the trading conditions. The overwhelming majority of clubs in league 1 & 2 lose considerable sums. Morecambe as you point out are one of the better performers but their year on losses over the last 2 years on the published accounts are still around 400k per year. It’s a bit of an issue with me because I fear football will implode eventually in the lower divisions without a financial reset. Chances are if you operate within your means you rule out any sort of sustainable success and that can’t be right.
The financial reset is always more funds from the Premier League (and should be) and given the increased revenues announced in the last week or so (increased television money from abroad) will be so again. I agree that as a business model for lower league football clubs it must be terrifying (if you've invested your own money) but it's the way it is. County Cricket has an even greater problem (reliant on central funds from the ECB - test match revenues - limited overs and the 5 day game, especially the Ashes !) Who are you supporting ?
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Manwork04
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The way I look at it is whatever the average is tends to be the benchmark for the trading conditions. The overwhelming majority of clubs in league 1 & 2 lose considerable sums. Morecambe as you point out are one of the better performers but their year on losses over the last 2 years on the published accounts are still around 400k per year. It’s a bit of an issue with me because I fear football will implode eventually in the lower divisions without a financial reset. Chances are if you operate within your means you rule out any sort of sustainable success and that can’t be right.
Shock, horror football clubs run poorly, this isn’t a normal business and you cannot apply a binary logic to it. I’ll give you an example, most of a clubs capital is tied up in the players, this value depends on form wether or not they are injured etc etc. It’s just not like a s simple as you make out mate.
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Rule Britannia
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Manwork04
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Ooooooh no. Don’t forget that KT and DB had to fight off a plethora of seriously minted contenders to get into the hot seat last time.
Now why would they have done that? You’ve been corrected on a number of occasions with regards to other bidders.
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Rule Britannia
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DrillingCobbler
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In the case of Exeter, that have had an unbelievable run of selling players for big money. I am guessing, easily the most profitable out of all 'small clubs around our size'? They have though, failed over time to increase their attendances - https://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/exeter-city/besucherzahlenentwicklung/verein/6699They have also been stuck in league2 for several years, whilst we have been promoted a couple of times (albeit gone back down again!) They are (in my view) a well run financially, club. And are sustainable at this level. I think if they got promoted to league1 and were not able to flog a player for big money, they would probably come back down rather quickly, losing £ as they do.
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Manwork04
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In the case of Exeter, that have had an unbelievable run of selling players for big money. I am guessing, easily the most profitable out of all 'small clubs around our size'? They have though, failed over time to increase their attendances - https://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/exeter-city/besucherzahlenentwicklung/verein/6699They have also been stuck in league2 for several years, whilst we have been promoted a couple of times (albeit gone back down again!) They are (in my view) a well run financially, club. And are sustainable at this level. I think if they got promoted to league1 and were not able to flog a player for big money, they would probably come back down rather quickly, losing £ as they do. Exeter has a population of 129,000 whereas Northampton has a population of nearly double that so has a far grater catchment area and therefore potential.
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Rule Britannia
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Another Pedj
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Not sure about that. Exeter has only one other league club within 80 miles.
Not sure how much an 80 mile radius from Northampton would extend but probably south Yorkshire to Cambridge to all of London and all of the West Midlands.
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