The Hotel End
March 28, 2024, 16:46:42 pm
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.
Did you miss your activation email?

Login with username, password and session length
News:
 
  Home Help Search Arcade Downloads Gallery Links Staff List Calendar Login Register Chat  

Redevelopment Closer Than Ever?

Pages: 1 ... 1505 1506 1507 1508 1509 1510 1511 [1512] 1513 1514 1515 1516 1517 1518 1519 ... 2181   Go Down
  Print  
Author Topic: Redevelopment Closer Than Ever?  (Read 1820159 times)
tcobb and 40 Guests are viewing this topic.
Melbourne Cobbler
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 4631



View Profile
Badges: (View All)
Spammer 25 Posts in one day Avatar Search
« Reply #30220 on: November 25, 2021, 00:33:18 am »

Or maybe. if we had better management we wouldn't be losing nearly £1M every year, every time I visit to Sixfields I struggle to see where we've spent £7M when clubs with fan bases half our size break even or are in profit.
Dont mean to be argumentative, but according to the Deloitte report for 2021 there are virtually no clubs in the entire football league operating on the basis you describe. The latest figures for Division 2 show a operating loss of 19 million (or £800k per club average). Division 1 shows average operating losses  of 2 million per club. Given we have spent a couple of seasons in division 1 our figures are pretty much bang on average. Based on expenditure alone our figures suggest we should have achieved promotions but haven’t spent enough to sustain the position so would be relegated. That’s my interpretation anyway.

https://www2.deloitte.com/uk/en/pages/sports-business-group/articles/annual-review-of-football-finance.html

In conclusion based on expenditure you need to incur loses of £800k per season to finish mid table in Division 2 and losses £2 million per season to finish mid table in Division 1.
« Last Edit: November 25, 2021, 07:42:10 am by Melbourne Cobbler » Report Spam   Logged

Not a real supporter but unelected chair of the Northampton Town Honorary Supporters Club. (Please note: any opinions given may not necessarily be shared by proper supporters. In incidents of conflict the views of real supporters shall take precedence).
Shoemaker
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 6890


View Profile
Badges: (View All)
Combination Topic Starter Poll Voter
« Reply #30221 on: November 25, 2021, 00:40:53 am »

There will always be a spanner in the works with our council. They are not fit for purpose and have never really helped the Cobblers out (other than alleged dodgy deals) like other town councils have with their football clubs. Nothing surprises me anymore and as long as the Saints are doing well that's all most of them really care about. If KT said enough is enough I would hardly blame him. The Trust will be happy with this latest saga, so all is well with the world.          

As has been said already

A £10 million pound loan …..,

Hardly never helped in my book.

The council will be crucified if they let the land go for under market value (and rightly so)
Everything needs to be transparent regards this deal.

Forget the club , the owners , the councils future depends on this and they cannot afford to mess this up.
There is too much at risk for them going forwards…,
Get this wrong and central government will be all over them like a rash and heads will roll.

That’s not my opinion
It’s a fact

The local taxpayers who couldn’t care less about the club need to see that the council are not messing up once again (I call allowing four different tranches of cash to be drawn down without first looking at construction progress a mess up)

If the council do mess up they’ll be out on their ear and the county will be run by central government,
The local council won’t fancy that one bit.

Report Spam   Logged
Deepcut Cobbler
Administrator
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 14651



View Profile
Badges: (View All)
Search Level 6 Windows User
« Reply #30222 on: November 25, 2021, 05:52:53 am »

Another delay….

Quel surprise……

Il soon be able to buy the club with the money I’ve saved due to my exile thanks to my suspicious mind



You 'disappeared' the last time that I queried your exile and you still haven't responded.

Are you sure that you aren't incarcerated at Her Majesty's Pleasure and using your self imposed boycott as cover?
Surely you must be eligible for parole soon?  Wink
Report Spam   Logged

“They shall grow not old as we that are left grow old:
Age shall not weary them, nor the years condemn.
At the going down of the sun and in the morning
We will remember them.” Laurence Binyon

The Hotelend Grand National Sweepstake Champion 2009
guest3338
Guest

Badges: (View All)
« Reply #30223 on: November 25, 2021, 10:26:05 am »

Dont mean to be argumentative, but according to the Deloitte report for 2021 there are virtually no clubs in the entire football league operating on the basis you describe. The latest figures for Division 2 show a operating loss of 19 million (or £800k per club average). Division 1 shows average operating losses  of 2 million per club. Given we have spent a couple of seasons in division 1 our figures are pretty much bang on average. Based on expenditure alone our figures suggest we should have achieved promotions but haven’t spent enough to sustain the position so would be relegated. That’s my interpretation anyway.

https://www2.deloitte.com/uk/en/pages/sports-business-group/articles/annual-review-of-football-finance.html

In conclusion based on expenditure you need to incur loses of £800k per season to finish mid table in Division 2 and losses £2 million per season to finish mid table in Division 1.

It's clear that most clubs in the Championship overspend but the picture is less clear in leagues one and two.
Average operating losses of 800k and 2million are indicative of the league as a whole but not necessarily of individual clubs, there is not enough evidence in that report to say anymore.
It would be interesting to see a league table of operating losses alongside the actual final league table for divisions one and two.
Quite possible that a mid point finish in the league does not equate to an 800k loss even if there is a direct correlation between loss and finishing league position. One or two big overspends could easily squew that.
The only thing I would draw from the report is that as a club we happen to mirror the average loss. That's not necessarily the same as the median loss or the mode for the division.
I think Cartons point could be a valid one.

Report Spam   Logged
guest49
Guest

Badges: (View All)
« Reply #30224 on: November 25, 2021, 10:44:03 am »

Some of these clubs (ours included) inflict a lot of the cost by paying compo to managers and staff that they regularly offload mid-contract.
It's clearly far from easy to run a lower league club on an even keel but in any context we haven't seen a lot for our current balance. If you just wanted to make some money you'd have better odds in the casino.
Report Spam   Logged
Carton Lid
Hero Member
*****
Online Online

Posts: 1818


View Profile
Badges: (View All)
Third year Anniversary Level 5 Apple User
« Reply #30225 on: November 25, 2021, 10:49:06 am »

I think Exeter posted a £3M profit last year, Newport County, Accrington and Morecambe with less than half our fan base don't lose £800K a year. NTFC did run as a break even business for a few years under DC so why cant we now ?
  
Report Spam   Logged
CobblerForever
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 2039



View Profile
Badges: (View All)
Avatar Search Combination
« Reply #30226 on: November 25, 2021, 11:08:59 am »

I think Exeter posted a £3M profit last year, Newport County, Accrington and Morecambe with less than half our fan base don't lose £800K a year. NTFC did run as a break even business for a few years under DC so why cant we now ?
  

Exeter City;

Transfer Fees Received = £4,949,982

Operating Loss (which doesn't include the transfer fees figure above) = £1,415,479

Profit Before Tax = £3,589,174

Year Ended 30th June 2021

« Last Edit: November 25, 2021, 11:21:11 am by CobblerForever » Report Spam   Logged
guest2608
Guest

Badges: (View All)
« Reply #30227 on: November 25, 2021, 11:10:28 am »

I think Exeter posted a £3M profit last year, Newport County, Accrington and Morecambe with less than half our fan base don't lose £800K a year. NTFC did run as a break even business for a few years under DC so why cant we now ?
  
Probably because we all squeal like slit piglets if we havent signed 22 Ronaldos  by July 1st every summer…..
I know some clubs get lucky with getting it right…. We have occasionally.
However, not spending and being successful on the pitch rarely go hand in hand do they?
Spend…. Why are we in debt?
Don’t spend…. Owners are milking the fans.
Success…. Why aren’t we spending our extra cash?
Failure….. we bought the wrong players, sack the manager….. more cost and so it goes on.
Report Spam   Logged
Melbourne Cobbler
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 4631



View Profile
Badges: (View All)
Spammer 25 Posts in one day Avatar Search
« Reply #30228 on: November 25, 2021, 11:17:27 am »

I think it’s quite possible for individual clubs to buck the trend in certain years. The sale of a particularly talented player, a decent cup run, a promotion. However, the point is that the year on year reports present an alarming picture and the figures represent a general trend that very few clubs escape from over a 3 to 5 year period. There will always be exceptions, but to suggest that it is perfectly achievable for all clubs to break even or turn a profit over multiple seasons and attain success is proven to be nonsense, sorry.
Report Spam   Logged

Not a real supporter but unelected chair of the Northampton Town Honorary Supporters Club. (Please note: any opinions given may not necessarily be shared by proper supporters. In incidents of conflict the views of real supporters shall take precedence).
Carton Lid
Hero Member
*****
Online Online

Posts: 1818


View Profile
Badges: (View All)
Third year Anniversary Level 5 Apple User
« Reply #30229 on: November 25, 2021, 11:32:46 am »

There will always be exceptions, but to suggest that it is perfectly achievable for all clubs to break even or turn a profit over multiple seasons and attain success is proven to be nonsense, sorry.
I'm not suggesting that it's achievable for ALL clubs to break even, BUT, we are a big fish in a small pond and with our fan base we should be a lot better off that most of our League 2 compatriots. I will admit our lack of facilities does hold us back but I question if we use the facilities we do have to our full advantage.
Report Spam   Logged
Melbourne Cobbler
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 4631



View Profile
Badges: (View All)
Spammer 25 Posts in one day Avatar Search
« Reply #30230 on: November 25, 2021, 11:48:00 am »

I'm not suggesting that it's achievable for ALL clubs to break even, BUT, we are a big fish in a small pond and with our fan base we should be a lot better off that most of our League 2 compatriots. I will admit our lack of facilities does hold us back but I question if we use the facilities we do have to our full advantage.
The way I look at it is whatever the average is tends to be the benchmark for the trading conditions. The overwhelming majority of clubs in league 1 & 2 lose considerable sums. Morecambe as you point out are one of the better performers but their year on losses over the last 2 years on the published accounts are still around 400k per year. It’s a bit of an issue with me because I fear football will implode eventually in the lower divisions without a financial reset. Chances are if you operate within your means you rule out any sort of sustainable success and that can’t be right.
Report Spam   Logged

Not a real supporter but unelected chair of the Northampton Town Honorary Supporters Club. (Please note: any opinions given may not necessarily be shared by proper supporters. In incidents of conflict the views of real supporters shall take precedence).
Deepcut Cobbler
Administrator
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 14651



View Profile
Badges: (View All)
Search Level 6 Windows User
« Reply #30231 on: November 25, 2021, 12:02:54 pm »


Can we just get the East Stand completed in whatever form? 
I've lost interest in the rest of it.

Will we be changing our name to Northampton City if the agenda item that we have been 'bumped' for is successful?
Report Spam   Logged

“They shall grow not old as we that are left grow old:
Age shall not weary them, nor the years condemn.
At the going down of the sun and in the morning
We will remember them.” Laurence Binyon

The Hotelend Grand National Sweepstake Champion 2009
BackOfTheNet
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 5883


View Profile
Badges: (View All)
Search Level 6 Combination
« Reply #30232 on: November 25, 2021, 12:04:38 pm »

Exeter City;

Transfer Fees Received = £4,949,982

Operating Loss (which doesn't include the transfer fees figure above) = £1,415,479

Profit Before Tax = £3,589,174

Year Ended 30th June 2021



Thanks for digging that out. I posted something similar ages ago but couldn't find it the last time someone cited Exeter as a financial success story. I seem to remember they had been in the black for a few years but when you looked at the numbers they were still losing a good chunk of cash each year but it was being offset by dipping into the funds they received  from selling a player for some serious money.

I'm not knocking them, fair play to them, they've clearly done well in the transfer market but you can't base your operating model around selling a really good player every few years.  Yes, of course you can invest in upcoming players and tie them up to long term deals hoping they come good (a la Chesterfield with Tshimanga) and if it pays off everyone pats you on the back and applauds a superb bit of business, but if they do their ACL three games in and never play for you again you look an absolute mug and are financially screwed. There's a massive element of luck involved in that sort of thing,  especially at our sort of level.
Report Spam   Logged

The Hotelend Grand National* Sweepstake Champion 2020
BackOfTheNet
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 5883


View Profile
Badges: (View All)
Search Level 6 Combination
« Reply #30233 on: November 25, 2021, 12:05:40 pm »

Can we just get the East Stand completed in whatever form? 


I think most fans would take your hand off if they were offered that.
Report Spam   Logged

The Hotelend Grand National* Sweepstake Champion 2020
CobblerForever
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 2039



View Profile
Badges: (View All)
Avatar Search Combination
« Reply #30234 on: November 25, 2021, 12:08:29 pm »

The way I look at it is whatever the average is tends to be the benchmark for the trading conditions. The overwhelming majority of clubs in league 1 & 2 lose considerable sums. Morecambe as you point out are one of the better performers but their year on losses over the last 2 years on the published accounts are still around 400k per year. It’s a bit of an issue with me because I fear football will implode eventually in the lower divisions without a financial reset. Chances are if you operate within your means you rule out any sort of sustainable success and that can’t be right.

The financial reset is always more funds from the Premier League (and should be) and given the increased revenues announced in the last week or so (increased television money from abroad) will be so again.

I agree that as a business model for lower league football clubs it must be terrifying (if you've invested your own money) but it's the way it is. County Cricket has an even greater problem (reliant on central funds from the ECB - test match revenues - limited overs and the 5 day game, especially the Ashes !) Who are you supporting ?
Report Spam   Logged
Manwork04
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 9299



View Profile
Badges: (View All)
Windows User Mobile User Spammer 25 Posts in one day
« Reply #30235 on: November 25, 2021, 12:35:29 pm »

The way I look at it is whatever the average is tends to be the benchmark for the trading conditions. The overwhelming majority of clubs in league 1 & 2 lose considerable sums. Morecambe as you point out are one of the better performers but their year on losses over the last 2 years on the published accounts are still around 400k per year. It’s a bit of an issue with me because I fear football will implode eventually in the lower divisions without a financial reset. Chances are if you operate within your means you rule out any sort of sustainable success and that can’t be right.
Shock, horror football clubs run poorly, this isn’t a normal business and you cannot apply a binary logic to it.
I’ll give you an example, most of a clubs capital is tied up in the players, this value depends on form wether or not they are injured etc etc.
It’s just not like a s simple as you make out mate.
Report Spam   Logged

Rule Britannia
Manwork04
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 9299



View Profile
Badges: (View All)
Windows User Mobile User Spammer 25 Posts in one day
« Reply #30236 on: November 25, 2021, 12:50:22 pm »

Ooooooh no. Don’t forget that KT and DB had to fight off a plethora of seriously minted contenders to get into the hot seat last time.
Now why would they have done that?
You’ve been corrected on a number of occasions with regards to other bidders.
Report Spam   Logged

Rule Britannia
DrillingCobbler
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 5339


View Profile
Badges: (View All)
Search Windows User Combination
« Reply #30237 on: November 25, 2021, 12:55:26 pm »

In the case of Exeter, that have had an unbelievable run of selling players for big money. I am guessing, easily the most profitable out of all 'small clubs around our size'?

They have though, failed over time to increase their attendances - https://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/exeter-city/besucherzahlenentwicklung/verein/6699

They have also been stuck in league2 for several years, whilst we have been promoted a couple of times (albeit gone back down again!)

They are (in my view) a well run financially, club. And are sustainable at this level. I think if they got promoted to league1 and were not able to flog a player for big money, they would probably come back down rather quickly, losing £ as they do.


Report Spam   Logged
Manwork04
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 9299



View Profile
Badges: (View All)
Windows User Mobile User Spammer 25 Posts in one day
« Reply #30238 on: November 25, 2021, 13:12:19 pm »

In the case of Exeter, that have had an unbelievable run of selling players for big money. I am guessing, easily the most profitable out of all 'small clubs around our size'?

They have though, failed over time to increase their attendances - https://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/exeter-city/besucherzahlenentwicklung/verein/6699

They have also been stuck in league2 for several years, whilst we have been promoted a couple of times (albeit gone back down again!)

They are (in my view) a well run financially, club. And are sustainable at this level. I think if they got promoted to league1 and were not able to flog a player for big money, they would probably come back down rather quickly, losing £ as they do.



Exeter has a population of 129,000 whereas Northampton has a population of nearly double that so has a far grater catchment area and therefore potential.
Report Spam   Logged

Rule Britannia
Another Pedj
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 1322


View Profile
Badges: (View All)
Search Apple User Windows User
« Reply #30239 on: November 25, 2021, 13:19:30 pm »

Not sure about that. Exeter has only one other league club within 80 miles.

Not sure how much an 80 mile radius from Northampton would extend but probably south Yorkshire to Cambridge to all of London and all of the West Midlands.
Report Spam   Logged
Pages: 1 ... 1505 1506 1507 1508 1509 1510 1511 [1512] 1513 1514 1515 1516 1517 1518 1519 ... 2181   Go Up
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Powered by EzPortal
Parental guidance is urged as this messageboard may not be suitable for all persons especially those under the age of 16 as the forums may contain words, phrases and expressions not considered appropriate for a younger audience so please express caution. If any posts in the forums offend you, please let us know and we will look at them and if we agree with your complaint, we will remove them. You are personally responsible and potentially liable for the contents of your posting and may be sued should your posting contain content of a defamatory or other illegal nature. Every message posted leaves a traceable IP number. We check the forums at various times of the day and remove offending posts. Other supporters are welcome but abusive or silly posts will be removed and the offenders potentially barred from future access to the site. We advise that you never reveal any personal information about yourself or anyone else (for example: telephone number, home address or email address), and please do not include postal addresses of any kind. This messageboard is not endorsed or in any way affiliated with Northampton Town FC. All postings on this board become copyright of The Hotel End & may not be reproduced without the permission of the board administrator. By signing up to this message board you agree to this. The Hotel End cannot be held liable for the actions or postings of its members. The Hotel End reserve the right to edit, delete, move or close any thread for any reason. The Hotel End may disclose user information to government authorities at their discretion or when required by law. The Hotel End may also disclose user information when The Hotel End has reason to believe that someone is causing injury to or interference with its rights or property, other The Hotel End users, or anyone else that could be harmed by such activities. By registering for The Hotel End, you agree to indemnify The Hotel End its representatives, and agents, and hold them harmless from any and all claims (including claims for legal fees) which may arise from your participation on the The Hotel End. You also agree that The Hotel End is not responsible for the materials posted by users of The Hotel End. In addition, you grant The Hotel End and its affiliates, worldwide, royalty-free perpetual, irrevocable, non-exclusive right and license to use, reproduce, modify, adapt, publish, translate, create derivative works from, distribute, perform and display any message or content posted on The Hotel End and/or e-mail sent by you to The Hotel End (in whole or in part). The Hotel End reserves the right to make the rules up as it goes along. Thank you - The Hotel End I love Quidco
Bookmark this site!
Powered by SMF | SMF © 2016, Simple Machines
Privacy Policy