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Redevelopment Closer Than Ever?

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Author Topic: Redevelopment Closer Than Ever?  (Read 1820624 times)
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« Reply #30340 on: December 01, 2021, 08:55:33 am »

Wakefield is the biggest city without a league football team
The other half of the pub quiz question was Irthlingborough was the smallest town with a professional football team.

Anyone know where it is now?
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« Reply #30341 on: December 01, 2021, 10:37:22 am »

The other half of the pub quiz question was Irthlingborough was the smallest town with a professional football team.

Anyone know where it is now?
Nailsworth (FGR)

As an aside, is Wakefield really a city? Without too much disrespect, seems a perfect candidate for 'Bus stop near Leeds'!
Never been and commented on this when driving past on the way to Bradford a couple of weeks ago.
Have been out in Pontefract quite a few times though.
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« Reply #30342 on: December 01, 2021, 10:52:37 am »

Using catchment areas as a significant part of your argument is flawed and nowhere near an exact science:
My address to:
Aldershot Town FC - 12.1 miles
Farnborough FC - 16.8 miles
Woking FC 25.3 miles
Portsmouth FC - 29.2 miles
Reading FC - 29.6 miles
Southampton FC - 35.6 miles
Crawley Town FC - 41.3 miles
Wycombe Wanderers FC - 48.3 miles
and all those other clubs in between...to
Northampton Town FC - 110 miles

Your address to: (if I am not mistaken)
Luton Town FC - 1.9 miles
Stevenage FC - 15.2 miles
Watford FC - 19.2 miles
MK Dons FC - 20.7 miles
Wycombe Wanderers FC - 33.2 miles
Northampton Town FC - 37.3 miles
Cambridge United FC - 38.2

Like many others who live within other clubs' catchment areas, why don't we all attend and support the clubs within 'our' own catchment areas?
Exclusive catchment means the 'only show in town'
Yes our club have lost generations of potential supporters due to the amateurish way it's been run for decades, but these lost fans still have ntfc as their local club and could quite easily be 'encouraged ' to watch games at their local club..
Obviously this cant happen with ntfc in its current state of affairs,  but it will happen as soon as these latest lot have got all what they can scrape.
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« Reply #30343 on: December 01, 2021, 11:06:24 am »

It's an interesting debate around catchment areas. Wakefield has a population of around 330k and has never had a professional football team. When people ask where I live they say comment on it being a big rugby city. They say the same thing thing when I say I support Northampton. In the 20 odd years I've lived here, there have been a few attempts to build a club for Wakefield. The current guise is headed by former player Chris Turner and is backed by American money. They are currently playing in the Sheffield and Hallamshire league and use Featherstone Rugby ground. I can't see them progressing any higher than the NPL in the next 20 years as I don't believe there is a big enough appetite for football in Wakefield that could compete with Leeds, Huddersfield and Barnsley. The already established NPL teams have their dedicated support which suffers when those teams are at home. Although the Cobblers has an exclusive catchment area, football has changed and is more accessible than ever. Coupled with out of town stadiums that are a **** to park at, the days of supporting your team because you live in the shadow of the stand are pretty much gone. TV coverage has allowed more of the younger generation to support a team that they can watch at home no matter where the team is based. I'd love to travel down to Sixfields and watch us in our 25000 capacity stadium in the Championship but that probably won't happen in my time and nothing has changed since my first game in 1981.
Good points, but when referring to what we want to see, if we stick to just a having a 12000 capacity stadium with a team vying at the top end of L1, things can happen,  or will when this latest lot get gone.
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« Reply #30344 on: December 01, 2021, 12:19:09 pm »

Exclusive catchment means the 'only show in town'
Yes our club have lost generations of potential supporters due to the amateurish way it's been run for decades, but these lost fans still have ntfc as their local club and could quite easily be 'encouraged ' to watch games at their local club..
Obviously this cant happen with ntfc in its current state of affairs,  but it will happen as soon as these latest lot have got all what they can scrape.
Beds, out of interest what do you see as being achievable short term and also long term (lets say an established Championship team, at least one that has the odd season in the championship) with regards to average attendance out of the 300,000 catchment.

Personally, stadium constraints aside, I don't see an average much above 8,000 outside of the championship, I would then say 12,000 - 14,000 in the championship. That's based on this years averages, I would say we'll be better supported than P*sh but less than Birmingham.
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« Reply #30345 on: December 01, 2021, 12:41:27 pm »

Exclusive catchment means the 'only show in town'
Yes our club have lost generations of potential supporters due to the amateurish way it's been run for decades, but these lost fans still have ntfc as their local club and could quite easily be 'encouraged ' to watch games at their local club..
Obviously this cant happen with ntfc in its current state of affairs,  but it will happen as soon as these latest lot have got all what they can scrape.


The problem is which has been pointed out to you on many occasions is thatfrom the mid 60s onwards the population of Northampton and the surrounding areas grew rapidly(the population increase was C5,000p.a.) with an influx of people from around the country predominently London (most of them moved to London N99 on the Eastern). With them came all sorts of deluded fools who were supporters of London clubs who were playing in the highest division and this family tradition is passed from father to son(apart from one case I know where the lad started to support Spurs just to wind his Hammers fan Dad up).
The latest figures for the population of the town is 224,610 (mid-2019 est.). Now you go on about catchment area, so how far down up the A43 do you go before you hit Kettering land? How far down the M1 before you hit Donkeyland? Birmingham, Coventry and Leicester have a good supporter base in the north and north west of the county
Lieceseter to the left of us Dimones to the right, stuck in the middle with you.
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« Reply #30346 on: December 01, 2021, 12:50:21 pm »

I think there have been many missed opportunities in the past that may or may not have enabled the club to progress. I haven't seen anything in the past that has made me think that we could fill a 12,000 capacity ground in the present. We talk of building the capacity now but all we'd see are empty seats. Remember the visits to the Reynolds Arena? In reply to Coolcat, of course it is a city, we have a cathedral!! I'm surprised you went out in Ponte Carlo and missed the delights of the Merrie City.
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« Reply #30347 on: December 01, 2021, 14:01:55 pm »

Also doesn't include that you can be at Arsenal in about 1.5 hours, Tottenham and Chelsea in under 2 hours and even the Manchester Clubs in under 3 hours from both Northampton and Wellingborough (and probably Rugby and Kettering). As well as all the West Midlands clubs in around the hour.
Lots is made about the central location of Northampton being perfect for a club to develop, but that also means lots will have based themselves here for work but support other clubs either from their home towns, or new generations following their parents.

Not denying that there are a lot of potential fans out there, the Wembley appearances prove that, and the club should be trying to entice them in, but the 300,000 number will always mean we fail and whatever happens wont satisfy the point.
I genuinely believe that we can attract and average of 8,000 - 10,000 but only with sustained League 1 football and playing at the right end of that league.

Agree with your numbers 8/10k in L1 12/15k in the Championship.
A pre requisite would be top tiers on the South and East.
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« Reply #30348 on: December 01, 2021, 14:06:01 pm »

Latest trust update regarding this...

West Northamptonshire Council has confirmed there will be a special meeting to discuss the Sixfields East Stand and land deal.
It is not known as yet whether the special meeting, likely to be held at Northampton's Guildhall, will be held before Christmas or carried over into the New Year.
Consequently, the full council and cabinet meetings - which were due to decide on the deal within the next week - will now not be discussing the stand and land plans.
Given the history of the issue and its complexity, the Supporters Trust welcomes the decision to hold a special meeting which was called for by the Labour and Liberal Democrat groups on the council.
We support a deal that completes the East Stand to a satisfactory standard as a matter of urgency, but the deal must protect the original footprint of the club's land which is subject to an Asset of Community Value (ACV) registration.
And also protect the long-term viability of Northampton Town FC which, like the other premier sports clubs in the town, is an asset to the town and its community.

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« Reply #30349 on: December 01, 2021, 14:21:20 pm »

Latest trust update regarding this...

West Northamptonshire Council has confirmed there will be a special meeting to discuss the Sixfields East Stand and land deal.
It is not known as yet whether the special meeting, likely to be held at Northampton's Guildhall, will be held before Christmas or carried over into the New Year.
Consequently, the full council and cabinet meetings - which were due to decide on the deal within the next week - will now not be discussing the stand and land plans.
Given the history of the issue and its complexity, the Supporters Trust welcomes the decision to hold a special meeting which was called for by the Labour and Liberal Democrat groups on the council.
We support a deal that completes the East Stand to a satisfactory standard as a matter of urgency, but the deal must protect the original footprint of the club's land which is subject to an Asset of Community Value (ACV) registration.
And also protect the long-term viability of Northampton Town FC which, like the other premier sports clubs in the town, is an asset to the town and its community.


Great stuff, well done the Trust.
Protecting the club we love is front and centre of any deal.
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« Reply #30350 on: December 01, 2021, 14:45:01 pm »

Latest trust update regarding this...

West Northamptonshire Council has confirmed there will be a special meeting to discuss the Sixfields East Stand and land deal.
It is not known as yet whether the special meeting, likely to be held at Northampton's Guildhall, will be held before Christmas or carried over into the New Year.
Consequently, the full council and cabinet meetings - which were due to decide on the deal within the next week - will now not be discussing the stand and land plans.
Given the history of the issue and its complexity, the Supporters Trust welcomes the decision to hold a special meeting which was called for by the Labour and Liberal Democrat groups on the council.
We support a deal that completes the East Stand to a satisfactory standard as a matter of urgency, but the deal must protect the original footprint of the club's land which is subject to an Asset of Community Value (ACV) registration.
And also protect the long-term viability of Northampton Town FC which, like the other premier sports clubs in the town, is an asset to the town and its community.


Was the original footprint of the clubs land (ACV), the football ground and the perimeter of the athletics track ground?
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« Reply #30351 on: December 01, 2021, 15:07:21 pm »

The ACV does include the athletics track but I'm not sure what relevance the ACV has to the plans.
All that the ACV means is if the ACV land isnt part of the stadium footprint and part of the land they want to sell they need to give the Trust 6 months to raise the funds, but still don't actually have to sell it to them.
Interestingly the ACV will expire Feb 2024 (unless renewed), I wonder if that's a reason that KT wanted longer to complete the stadium prior to purchasing the development land.
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« Reply #30352 on: December 01, 2021, 15:44:40 pm »

Was the original footprint of the clubs land (ACV), the football ground and the perimeter of the athletics track ground?

The site plan for the Sixfields ACV can be viewed here.

https://www.northampton.gov.uk/downloads/download/3722/assets-of-community-value---sixfields-stadium-plan
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« Reply #30353 on: December 01, 2021, 16:27:02 pm »

The ACV does include the athletics track but I'm not sure what relevance the ACV has to the plans.
All that the ACV means is if the ACV land isnt part of the stadium footprint and part of the land they want to sell they need to give the Trust 6 months to raise the funds, but still don't actually have to sell it to them.
Interestingly the ACV will expire Feb 2024 (unless renewed), I wonder if that's a reason that KT wanted longer to complete the stadium prior to purchasing the development land.
I am not aware of a sport you can play in an industrial warehouse so I guess that could be a bit of an issue.
I fully expect the trust to look at extending the ACV at their earliest convenience.
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« Reply #30354 on: December 01, 2021, 16:46:37 pm »


Thank you...
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« Reply #30355 on: December 01, 2021, 18:05:48 pm »

Beds, out of interest what do you see as being achievable short term and also long term (lets say an established Championship team, at least one that has the odd season in the championship) with regards to average attendance out of the 300,000 catchment.

Personally, stadium constraints aside, I don't see an average much above 8,000 outside of the championship, I would then say 12,000 - 14,000 in the championship. That's based on this years averages, I would say we'll be better supported than P*sh but less than Birmingham.
Good points, What I see is that its unbelievable that ntfc have failed to grow its product these past two decades at a time where football became its most popular.
Look at Posh, 20 years ago they were on the bones of there arses but got in owners who WANTED them to grow, and now unrecognisable, where we have managed to go backwards.
I'm under no illusions that had Cardoza/Thomas never darkened our door we would be a match with and maybe bettering the likes of Posh, Rotherham Doncaster Luton Wigan Swansea Plymouth Mk Lincoln etc, etc, We would be bursting the seams at an exciting looking 12000 capacity Sixfields with regularity.
Its amazing to think that an outsider who probably didn't even know where Northampton was or had never been to, became an expert in what it was that he thought we needed,  and to our civic shame, some of our supporters lapped up this spouted 5hite.
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« Reply #30356 on: December 01, 2021, 18:29:17 pm »

The problem is which has been pointed out to you on many occasions is thatfrom the mid 60s onwards the population of Northampton and the surrounding areas grew rapidly(the population increase was C5,000p.a.) with an influx of people from around the country predominently London (most of them moved to London N99 on the Eastern). With them came all sorts of deluded fools who were supporters of London clubs who were playing in the highest division and this family tradition is passed from father to son(apart from one case I know where the lad started to support Spurs just to wind his Hammers fan Dad up).
The latest figures for the population of the town is 224,610 (mid-2019 est.). Now you go on about catchment area, so how far down up the A43 do you go before you hit Kettering land? How far down the M1 before you hit Donkeyland? Birmingham, Coventry and Leicester have a good supporter base in the north and north west of the county
Lieceseter to the left of us Dimones to the right, stuck in the middle with you.
Not sure from what angle you're coming from, but, all I want to see is an established L1 club with ambition of taking the next step up, playing in an exciting stadium that holds 12000 to allow just a tiny 2.5% upto 3% proportion of its vast catchment to attend regularly allowing upto 3000 visitors,  space permitting.
I don't care where these fans parents migrated from, be it London, the commonwealth or Ireland like my parents did in 1957, I was born in 1961, my first game in 1966 then regularly from 1970..
Football is entertainment,  the Stadium is its theatre and if it looks professional, fans will flock.
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« Reply #30357 on: December 01, 2021, 18:29:44 pm »

I'm under no illusions that had Cardoza/Thomas never darkened our door we would be a match with and maybe bettering the likes of Posh, Rotherham Doncaster Luton Wigan Swansea Plymouth Mk Lincoln etc, etc, We would be bursting the seams at an exciting looking 12000 capacity Sixfields with regularity.

Ah the wisdom of a man who can go back in time, change history and predict the future...............
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« Reply #30358 on: December 01, 2021, 18:41:19 pm »

I think the price point has an impact. The Saints can command it as it’s Premiership sport.
Paying £60+ (on tickets alone) to sit and watch League One and League Two teams isn’t going to happen on a regular basis for most families. Take that down to the single person and if you are parking and having a coffee you’re up to a £30 trip out for a couple of hours.
Reasonably priced ST’s in a bigger stadium is our best bet.
Having a bigger ground and cheaper match day prices could also boost attendances and revenue. There’s a sweet spot somewhere. As it is I doubt the prices could be adjusted much to boost the coffers and I’m sure they do their sums.
I’d still try a few packages to test it out…5 for £100 as an example, or buy 5 get one free.
I’m sure they’ll be some larger grounds possibly in the Prem and Championship with prices not too far off ours.
These elusive people within the catchment will only come if you dangle the carrot and not because it’s the Cobblers.
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« Reply #30359 on: December 01, 2021, 18:44:07 pm »

Ah the wisdom of a man who can go back in time, change history and predict the future...............
I called out Thomas in his first month  when he started pouring cold water on his promised £4m redevelopment...Belittling our club and its redevelopment needs, was how I put it. I suspected he was burying the bad news at a time when most of our fans were on their hands and knees kissing his ar5e...
Dont believe me? See 7000 pages back😂😉

Cardoza was a strange one, he would say the right things for the first 5 years, he spent money on the team, all was good,  but then the old building of vast debts without improving anything appeared like it has again, It was then he started making my pi55 boil.

If you're reading this Tom Cliff, I must apologise as I've taken over your role as the voice of the fans. 😂😂
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