Are we too good?

[SteveRiches]

Why don't we declare a special week on the messageboard where people don't vent bile on each other but instead just state their views without digging at other posters? This is becoming a place for bitter and twisted minds to attack the world in hateful fashion!
OK, who's ging to be first to tell me to *@+$ off?

[Iest_ntfc]

Why don't we declare a special week on the messageboard where people don't vent bile on each other but instead just state their views without digging at other posters? This is becoming a place for bitter and twisted minds to attack the world in hateful fashion!
OK, who's ging to be first to tell me to *@+$ off?

Now there's more chance of that happening than the cobblers beating Liverpool 

It seems that the main point of my OP was completely ignored and one small minor comment picked up on which was taken out of context. Although i will admit my attempt of ironic comedy was probably not the best

[TheBigPicture]

To add my two pennies worth, i believe this same squad would actually do better in league 1, although there would still be the problem of not having that consistent goalscorer who could get us 20 goals etc... And it is a common fact that in League 2 you have to play more direct if you want to get out of this league, thats what Ian Atkins employed into a team that included a certain Ian Sampson - Playing just pretty football only gets limited success in the basement division and Ian Sampson should know only too well, you don't get the time or space in League 2!! - It's so damn obvious Up against the likes of Macclesfield you have to be direct and play like for like.

[Grove]

Why don't we declare a special week on the messageboard where people don't vent bile on each other but instead just state their views without digging at other posters? This is becoming a place for bitter and twisted minds to attack the world in hateful fashion!
OK, who's ging to be first to tell me to *@+$ off?

ging... thatll be Gibbo then.

[Macc Cobbler]

At the moment, on a consistent basis, we are not good enough, and we need to stop kidding ourselves.
Macc actually beat us playing football with pace and not a little skill and effort, which for most of the games this season has been sadly lacking from our game.
In ten games, we have only scored nine goals ............... there are only four teams with worse records (Aldershot -7, Lincoln - 5, Bradford - 4, Hereford -4)
Defensively, we have conceded fourteen goals ........... there are seven teams with worse records (Barnet - 22, Hereford - 20, Cheltenham - 19, Morecambe - 19, Gillingham - 16, Macclesfield - 15, and Stockport - 15).
The season is by no means over and there have been some encouraging performances, but I don't think the table lies at the moment.

[Tyler]

stop crying tyler.

f*** off Si


I think alot of you missed the point. On paper we have one of the best budgets, one of the best squads, some of the best individual players and play some of the best football. Trouble is its more suited to higher divisions

[Marvo]

f*** off Si


I think alot of you missed the point. On paper we have one of the best budgets, one of the best squads, some of the best individual players and play some of the best football. Trouble is its more suited to higher divisions

But where do you get this viewpoint from?

How many times have you seen Port Vale or Rotherham this season? I know you've seen Shrewsbury, they tore us apart. Who are these players you mention? Thornton is pretty good but very inconsistant, Liam Davis can be outstanding but where are the others you mention and why do you think they are better than the players other clubs have? I've never understood this belief that if we have a good goalkeeper then he's the best in the division, or right back, or winger or whatever.

When we had Morley, Hill, Benjamin, Gilbert, McGoldrick etc, we didn't have to think we had the best players in the division, we knew we had because we were top of the league and were putting other clubs to the sword nearly every week.. How anybody can think the side lying NINETEENTH in League 2 has some of the best players in the league and plays some of the best football beggars belief.

[Insider]

I think alot of you missed the point. On paper we have one of the best budgets, one of the best squads, some of the best individual players and play some of the best football. Trouble is its more suited to higher divisions

I'm not convinced that any of this is true "on paper".  If it is then there is only one place left to point the finger and that is at Sammo and Crosby.  Though I'm sure someone will point it at NBC instead.

[PineWoody]

To say we are too good is just complete tosh. The fact we are in the lower reaches of the league after a decent amount of games proves that point. We may have a team better suited to leagues above, thats debateable at best, but we are in league 2 and need to win/get promoted from league 2, not league 1. I said during pre season when we outplayed Watford for large parts, this is great football to watch, but we won't be allowed to play like that in league 2.

League 2 football may be unattractive in the main, and may not make the best watching, and i certainly want to see my team try and play football, but to win in league 2, generally you have to fight and battle hard for every tackle/header etc, and currently we are far from being too good at that.

[St Edmundsbury Cobbler]

An unbelievable thread with an unbelievable statement!!!!

4 wins in the last 19 League games suggests to me that actually, no, we're not too good for this league.

People that think that are possibly the same ones that, while in free fall at the end of 2008, beginning of 2009, believed we were too good to be relegated from League 1.

[Deepcut Cobbler]

People that think that are possibly the same ones that, while in free fall at the end of 2008, beginning of 2009, believed we were too good to be relegated from League 1.

We were weren't we? 

[guest49]

I think it may be Sam Tyler posting from 1973, we finished 23rd in Div 4. 

[borders65]

But where do you get this viewpoint from?

How many times have you seen Port Vale or Rotherham this season? I know you've seen Shrewsbury, they tore us apart. Who are these players you mention? Thornton is pretty good but very inconsistant, Liam Davis can be outstanding but where are the others you mention and why do you think they are better than the players other clubs have? I've never understood this belief that if we have a good goalkeeper then he's the best in the division, or right back, or winger or whatever.

When we had Morley, Hill, Benjamin, Gilbert, McGoldrick etc, we didn't have to think we had the best players in the division, we knew we had because we were top of the league and were putting other clubs to the sword nearly every week.. How anybody can think the side lying NINETEENTH in League 2 has some of the best players in the league and plays some of the best football beggars belief.

top post Marvo, the league position never lies.
i dont think we have the best in any Departments.
the manager , players and chairman are all iffy at best !!

[TheBigPicture]

It seems that the main point of my OP was completely ignored and one small minor comment picked up on which was taken out of context.

Yeah welcome to the Hotel End...

[TheBigPicture]

i dont think we have the best in any Departments.
the manager , players and chairman are all iffy at best !!

...And supporters?

[TbananaG]

Don't you have to define what 'good' means? The point of football is to score goals and win matches, so isn't the best team the one that wins most? If I think of times recently when we've looked really 'good' - first half of Crewe away last season, first half away to Aldershot this season, home to Chesterfield this season... - we didn't go on to with the match, so how 'good' were we really in those games, judged against the point of football. I'm sure Arsene Wenger, and possibly Ian Sampson, would disagree, but...

[DrillingCobbler]

As usual, many people are reading too much into the actual title of a thread. I know what Tyler means and I will contribute accordingly.

If you are to get out of this division 'playing football' - by that I mean passing the ball from back to front, using the midfield rather than bypassing it - then you must have considerably better technical players than the opposition. Arsenals weaknesses (in the premiership) in recent years have often been exposed by particularly physical teams (like Stoke, more so in previous seasons than now though) - I think it is fair to say that we are having the same issues, albeit down in division 4. I do think that we perhaps have better technical players than most of our opponents, but its no good having 11 of them if you cannot mix it about at times.

Firstly, lets take a look at the spine of the team. The spine needs to be very strong, otherwise the branches will just fall off:

Dunn
Holt
Tozer
Osman
Gilligan
McKay

Compare those 6 to Woodman, Warburton, Sammo himself, Hunter, Parrish and John Gayle and I think you have the answer...

Other than Holt, there really is very very little strength in that department. They are unable between them to win the battle of brut force and are as such getting bullied by bigger and stronger opponents. From my simple analysis I would say that we need a big strong centreback, Weddurburn to replace Gilligan and a big strong striker up front. And we all knew that in any case didn't we?

So my question to Sammo is, why don't you/haven't you sorted this out yet? Because its so bloody obvious!!

If he was to sort it out then I have little doubt that our technically gifted, superior talented players, will blossom and the branches will stop wilting like they obviously did at Macclesfield. If the middle of the park isn't controlled, the wide players stand no chance.

In answering Tylers question - its not a simple yes or no. I also don't agree that we would do better in league1 than we are doing in league2. We were totally out battled by teams when we went down - and in Coke, Jackman, Crowe etc we had very highly technical and talented players. But in Thornton, Davis, McKay and Johnson - we have some real quality there that could come out if the obvious shortcomings of the team are addressed.

Other

[Positively Mad Mark]

Looking forward to the article Tyro 

[lukenadal]

Does anyone remember a few years back when yeovil played some outstanding football in this division and walked the league? Or when Gorman was manager of wycombe and they went unbeaten until christmas i think it was? So to say it's impossible to get out of this league by playing passing football is completely ridiculous. I think we have a better starting 11 than most sides in this division, although admittedly still have some problem areas e.g goalkeeper. We mainly have a squad which lends itself to passing the ball on the floor, as arguably our best player in Thornton would be useless if we employed long ball tactics, therefore we should look to get the ball to his feet as much as possible. One poor performance doesn't make us a bad side, we don't need drastic changes just yet.

[Gen.Disorda]

Does anyone remember a few years back when yeovil played some outstanding football in this division and walked the league? Or when Gorman was manager of wycombe and they went unbeaten until christmas i think it was? So to say it's impossible to get out of this league by playing passing football is completely ridiculous. I think we have a better starting 11 than most sides in this division, although admittedly still have some problem areas e.g goalkeeper. We mainly have a squad which lends itself to passing the ball on the floor, as arguably our best player in Thornton would be useless if we employed long ball tactics, therefore we should look to get the ball to his feet as much as possible. One poor performance doesn't make us a bad side, we don't need drastic changes just yet.

Didnt doncaster do the same to both league 2 and 1