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Disappearing Punters?

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The 12th Marquis of Sixfields
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« Reply #1180 on: May 01, 2017, 21:49:41 pm »

I fúcking hope it's you
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« Reply #1181 on: May 01, 2017, 22:21:32 pm »

I fúcking hope it's you

 Grin
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« Reply #1182 on: May 01, 2017, 22:29:08 pm »

but did you understand the point being made?

Yes
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« Reply #1183 on: May 04, 2017, 10:23:45 am »

http://www.ntfc.co.uk/news/article/2016-17/northampton-town-attendances-3704451.aspx

Average gate (overall) last season over 6,200. Highest for 19 years.

Great news on young season ticket holders growth in memberships in junior age groups too.
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« Reply #1184 on: May 04, 2017, 15:24:45 pm »

So we need to change this thread to read "Re-appearing punters"!
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« Reply #1185 on: May 04, 2017, 15:37:19 pm »

So we need to change this thread to read "Re-appearing punters"!

Steve, The thread and title was created in response to and questioning the posters opining that we were losing our own supporters, because of the reduced attendances at the start of the 2013-14 campaign.  In fact it demonstrated that we were retaining and invariably increasing the home support when taken in isolation from the away fans figures.  The title, with question mark, is still relevant.
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« Reply #1186 on: May 04, 2017, 16:13:28 pm »

But there was a limited capacity until April was there not? Yes. Hence the % is inflated. An example being Portsmouth (H) when we had just gone top only attracted 5,859. Your telling me that would be the same with or without seats in the whole of the east stand. If we had, that would be a 7k crowd

How is the % inflated. The figure given is for the increase in number of home bums on seats, not a % of how full the ground was, and opening up the East Stand does not mean that we will be getting 7k home fans every week. We only managed 6k+ twice in 2015/16 and 4 times this season inc man U.
So if we build it do you really think they will come?
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« Reply #1187 on: May 04, 2017, 16:28:07 pm »

As has been said before, this season we averaged 5385 home fans and 860 away fans.
We averaged 6245 total attendances, averaging approx 1400+ empty seats per match (depending on the declared capacity).

What does that mean?  I haven't got a clue but it looks good/bad* (feel free to delete as applicable to suit your individual argument).

Is that an acceptable number of empty seats per game? Probably not because it only offers us a maximum 20% increase in average attendances for the higher profile matches.  I believe that we are all in agreement that the ground capacity requires increasing, it's just where it sits in the Chairman's planning priorities of things to do?
At the moment we are not losing home support, but how long will that last following the bow wave of success that inflated this seasons figures?
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« Reply #1188 on: May 04, 2017, 19:06:57 pm »

I feel that any empty seat is a bad thing, but I can't see a way to improve it without a sugar daddy investing heavily in the team and then the ground to accommodate the increased demand for season tickets and huge away followings.
And before you start Beds a temporary terrace is not the answer, it is a short term knee jerk reaction.
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« Reply #1189 on: May 04, 2017, 19:25:34 pm »

How is the % inflated. The figure given is for the increase in number of home bums on seats, not a % of how full the ground was, and opening up the East Stand does not mean that we will be getting 7k home fans every week. We only managed 6k+ twice in 2015/16 and 4 times this season inc man U.
So if we build it do you really think they will come?

The flip side to that is that according to the match reports the games against Cambridge (5,828), Newport (5,630 including Cobblers fans in the South Stand), Accrington (5,269 again including home fans in the South stand) Wycombe (5,755) and indeed Portsmouth (5,859) were all played in front of sold out home crowds. Bear in mind that home capacity was reduced to around 4900 for the bulk of last season as there were NO seats in the East stand for most of it.

So there are potentially 5 home games which could have seen an increased home gate last season, which would have pushed up the average attendance for last season and made the percentage increase this season quite a bit smaller. Ergo...the %increase figure is inflated!
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« Reply #1190 on: May 04, 2017, 20:03:57 pm »

And there are games from this season where we could have sold a lot more, so the figures would have evened out. Ergo.. the % increase figure is not inflated.
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« Reply #1191 on: May 04, 2017, 21:04:39 pm »

And there are games from this season where we could have sold a lot more, so the figures would have evened out. Ergo.. the % increase figure is not inflated.

Eh?? How many games have we sold out? To my knowledge only Peterborough at home was a complete sell out. We could have sold more away tickets to a couple of clubs, Sheff United, Posh and Coventry (?)

But there were more games that were home sell outs last season than this, and that was due to the reduced capacity. There were also three or four home games last season where the away team could have sold more tickets had we been able to give them them!

So I have no doubt in my mind whatsoever that the potential average attendance last year would be far higher than what we have lost out on this year.

Lets just say that last year, had we had the Sixfields we have now, the average for the season would have been around 6000, and this season if we had more away seats we could have been up around 6600, giving a more modest 10% increase, rather than the "inflated" 18% figure!
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« Reply #1192 on: May 04, 2017, 21:47:02 pm »

Eh?? How many games have we sold out? To my knowledge only Peterborough at home was a complete sell out. We could have sold more away tickets to a couple of clubs, Sheff United, Posh and Coventry (?)

But there were more games that were home sell outs last season than this, and that was due to the reduced capacity. There were also three or four home games last season where the away team could have sold more tickets had we been able to give them them!

So I have no doubt in my mind whatsoever that the potential average attendance last year would be far higher than what we have lost out on this year.

Lets just say that last year, had we had the Sixfields we have now, the average for the season would have been around 6000, and this season if we had more away seats we could have been up around 6600, giving a more modest 10% increase, rather than the "inflated" 18% figure!

Which ever way you look at it an increase of 10 to 18% is pretty good. There is no doubt that had we had an increase (capacity) in the away areas and possibly in the home areas the gates may well have been more impressive. If KT can get the budget "right" for next season so allowing JE to bring in better players; we might just shock the big boys.
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« Reply #1193 on: May 04, 2017, 22:00:01 pm »

And there are games from this season where we could have sold a lot more, so the figures would have evened out. Ergo.. the % increase figure is not inflated.

I really don't know where to start. At least GPC understands it.
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« Reply #1194 on: May 04, 2017, 22:44:57 pm »

Which ever way you look at it an increase of 10 to 18% is pretty good. There is no doubt that had we had an increase (capacity) in the away areas and possibly in the home areas the gates may well have been more impressive. If KT can get the budget "right" for next season so allowing JE to bring in better players; we might just shock the big boys.

Agreed, an increase is an increase and it's all good. Hopefully things go well on the pitch next season that we have a lot more sellouts. Then we can have the whole 'our ground isn't big enough' argument again, but this time based on facts rather than maybes!
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« Reply #1195 on: May 05, 2017, 07:42:50 am »

I think the point that is regularly missed by many is that if we were to have a much larger ground capacity, the club could offer attractive deals on match day tickets to entice the non regular's in.

As things stand, knocking a fiver off and getting a few hundred people in would mean a loss in revenue. If the ground held 15000 then it could probably sell both season tickets and match day tickets cheaper (like Bradford do) and overall attendance would be far higher than current as well as a potential significant increase in overall revenue.

22quid is a lot of money to turn up on the day. I reckon a bigger and better facility would 'bring them in' and increase our turnover.

That said, and on the flip side…to those who don't understand the business aspect. Its all about return on investment. Im certain KT would have done his sums, we also know he's likely to have in place an exit strategy. So unless he can get that cash back and more in the few years he wants to be here then we are where we are!

It is frustrating, at the end of the day our historical ground 'issues' have held us back since 1897 despite having a geographical advantage that most clubs could only dream about. For us to achieve our true potential we are totally reliant on a mega rich owner coming in who wants 'to have some fun'. You don't make money out of football legitimately. If we boost revenue by 10million a season, that would then need to be channelled straight back into the wage bill to sustain that income! Thats why no club outside of the top 4 in the prem makes money. Sunderland are 100million in debt ffs!

One day, who knows. It happened to Bournemouth. I *hope that KT boosts our profile sufficiently to attract those who might fall into the category of 'investor' we all dream about. So for now, KT is doing a great job in my mind. The next few months though are crucial, the legal wrangles surrounding the East Stand need to come to a conclusion before we can fully judge him and his intentions. If that just means that he clears the path for the big money people to come in, then thats cool as well. Time will tell!
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« Reply #1196 on: May 05, 2017, 08:15:52 am »

I think the point that is regularly missed by many is that if we were to have a much larger ground capacity, the club could offer attractive deals on match day tickets to entice the non regular's in.

As things stand, knocking a fiver off and getting a few hundred people in would mean a loss in revenue. If the ground held 15000 then it could probably sell both season tickets and match day tickets cheaper (like Bradford do) and overall attendance would be far higher than current as well as a potential significant increase in overall revenue.

22quid is a lot of money to turn up on the day. I reckon a bigger and better facility would 'bring them in' and increase our turnover.


That's certainly something I've thought about. Whether the idea of providing cheap tickets/season tickets bears much fruit is debatable.
Bury knocked all prices down to a fiver yet could still only attract 4000 home fans for a crucial game against us a couple of weeks ago. So they put a thousand or so on the gate but probably lost money.
Even Bradford, who offer some of the cheapest season tickets and are able to because of their large capacity attracted a gate of 15,696 for their play-off semi final last night. a gate that was lower than every single one of their home league games this season. I guess it was "all-pay" last night, but the gate would suggest that not even all the s/t holders could be bothered to turn up for the play-off game.

BTW, our walk up price is £24 not £22, I wonder if it will go up another quid for next season?

Discounted games also bring in another issue, as the season tixcket price then becomes less attractive if "pay on the day" prices are reduced a couple of times a season. The West Stand early bird season ticket price is equivalent to 17.27 normal admissions (so you get 5 and a bit games free in effect), after the discount period that figure rises to 19.54 normal admissions, only 3 and a half games free. Reduce prices to a fiver more than once or twice a season then financially it doesn't "pay" to get a season ticket.

Its a balancing act, and its certainly not helped by our low capacity.
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« Reply #1197 on: May 05, 2017, 09:18:03 am »

I have tried to think of a solution outside the Sugar Daddy solution, but it's difficult to see a way of getting more through the turnstiles without a winning side to watch. A "half" season ticket where the "free" games is maybe 1-2, but as you point out the problem comes with the "all for a fiver" games, and you would have to make them choose their 11 games in advance to allow the sale of the spare tickets, or do as it has been done before and sell half season tickets half way through the season, though this again relies on performance on the pitch.
Maybe in association with the Uni do a student special for a few games to try and get more interested. I have to agree that with the limited capcity it is very difficult to do the "specials". If the east was in use(I am certain that the east being empty is effecting the atmosphere), special rates could be given for "family tickets" etc. to try and fill it.
There is nothing worse than walking into a half full stdium on a cold November night to watch a poor team performance. Unfortunately it is the old "Chicken and Egg" problem.
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« Reply #1198 on: May 05, 2017, 09:53:51 am »

The East is in use
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« Reply #1199 on: May 05, 2017, 10:15:26 am »

We mustn't think it should be all or nothing as we dont need an immediate unsustainable  multi millions cash injection by  russian oligarchs  to make Sixfields a more attractive place to visit.
Yes some investment is required to acheive some steady capacity growth that should be sustainable allowing it to be paid back over a period of time with intrest, allowing the club to more than benefit long term.
Whenever someone refers to whats required at Sixfields its always grossly  over exaggerated as to whats needed and its costs.. lets do small sustainable builds just enough to make visiting Sixfields more enjoyable for all and allows us to compete as equals with most other league 1 clubs with the hope of progressing to the championship..
Being  constantly someone's  short term 'project'  is not going to advance our club unless we get a modicum of investment.
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