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Disappearing Punters?

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The 12th Marquis of Sixfields
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« Reply #1420 on: January 09, 2018, 16:44:04 pm »

Name one other club higher in the league pyramid with less match day or non match day commercial revenue than NTFC. There isn't one, penny dropping now? Only Wimbledon
So there is one then?
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« Reply #1421 on: January 09, 2018, 19:46:14 pm »

So there is one then?

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« Reply #1422 on: January 09, 2018, 20:17:26 pm »

Jesus **** christ. In your opinion are teams built with cash or thin air? Facilities generate cash and good commercial facilities generate the sort of cash your little backward thinking arse sat in the stand cannot even dream of, even backwards.

Same as your house, if you have one, you can pay for redevelopments and improving your business over a very long period of time, then re-finance and re-finance if you wish, whilst the generated instant income from added sponsorship, sales of corporate "season tickets" restaurants, bars etc can be facilitated into team building and a fraction towards repayments. It's how every business improves.

Name one other club higher in the league pyramid with less match day or non match day commercial revenue than NTFC. There isn't one, penny dropping now? Only Wimbledon have less but only for another year.

So in my opinion, it's highly possible that if the east stand had been properly finished last year we would not be languishing in the drop zone. It's amusing when some here cry, "where's the money to expand", or even funnier, "why don't you do it yourself" when they demand everyday someone dips in their pocket for new signings.

It's high time some marbles on here opened their eyes.

Unfortunately I don't have a list of club commercial revenues. If you could point it out to me I'll happily check that there aren't any lower than ours that are higher in the pyramid (other than Wimbledon). As you are so knowledgeable on the subject, perhaps you could inform me as to whether there any that are higher commercial revenues than ours that are LOWER in the pyramid? There are two sides to every story and I'd like to check all the facts before jumping to a conclusion that you are correct. Stats can be quite misleading when used selectively.

In my opinion teams are built by good managers with good scouting networks, prudent chairmen, quality coaching, and a little luck. Spending cash helps, but it guarantees nothing, except perhaps a financial loss. Some clubs have gone bust spending more than they could repay. It turns out that not all businesses improve. Do you know how many businesses improved vs businesses that didn't or businesses that failed? It's scary. Invest, but only when it's right to do so. Use Darlington if you want a football version.

Let's now think through your house analogy. Yes I could borrow money, which comes at a risk, and pay it back over a long period of time. Of course I would have to be sure that my income was going to cover the repayments otherwise I'd be faced with repossession or less money for players than I had to start with. With interest rates on the rise it might be a larger fraction of my income than I thought. Of course, whether I was to loan the money or use the money I have already got in the bank is only part of the equation. I also need to get permission from the owner, given that I'm only in a leasehold house, planning permission, and the legalities sorted before I can spend any money on redeveloping my house. Sometimes this is frustrating when you really wanted that larger kitchen before the summer, but it just isn't possible. Sometimes people even object to my plans and then I have to justify everything and hope the powers that be decide in my favour.

We all thought we had spent a reasonable amount of money this summer. How can you be sure that if we had more, JED would not have spunked even more and still ended up with the kind of team he did? To assume money equals success is dangerous and myopic.

Finally, you suggest I have a little backward thinking arse. Well it's not as little as it used to be but thanks for the compliment. As for thinking, no, only my brain thinks. Forwards and backwards. I guess if you let your arse do the thinking it does at least explain some of your posts.
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« Reply #1423 on: January 09, 2018, 20:34:19 pm »

Unfortunately I don't have a list of club commercial revenues. If you could point it out to me I'll happily check that there aren't any lower than ours that are higher in the pyramid (other than Wimbledon). As you are so knowledgeable on the subject, perhaps you could inform me as to whether there any that are higher commercial revenues than ours that are LOWER in the pyramid? There are two sides to every story and I'd like to check all the facts before jumping to a conclusion that you are correct. Stats can be quite misleading when used selectively.

In my opinion teams are built by good managers with good scouting networks, prudent chairmen, quality coaching, and a little luck. Spending cash helps, but it guarantees nothing, except perhaps a financial loss. Some clubs have gone bust spending more than they could repay. It turns out that not all businesses improve. Do you know how many businesses improved vs businesses that didn't or businesses that failed? It's scary. Invest, but only when it's right to do so. Use Darlington if you want a football version.

Let's now think through your house analogy. Yes I could borrow money, which comes at a risk, and pay it back over a long period of time. Of course I would have to be sure that my income was going to cover the repayments otherwise I'd be faced with repossession or less money for players than I had to start with. With interest rates on the rise it might be a larger fraction of my income than I thought. Of course, whether I was to loan the money or use the money I have already got in the bank is only part of the equation. I also need to get permission from the owner, given that I'm only in a leasehold house, planning permission, and the legalities sorted before I can spend any money on redeveloping my house. Sometimes this is frustrating when you really wanted that larger kitchen before the summer, but it just isn't possible. Sometimes people even object to my plans and then I have to justify everything and hope the powers that be decide in my favour.

We all thought we had spent a reasonable amount of money this summer. How can you be sure that if we had more, JED would not have spunked even more and still ended up with the kind of team he did? To assume money equals success is dangerous and myopic.

Finally, you suggest I have a little backward thinking arse. Well it's not as little as it used to be but thanks for the compliment. As for thinking, no, only my brain thinks. Forwards and backwards. I guess if you let your arse do the thinking it does at least explain some of your posts.

Whatever you think of this argument; this post is a great effort well constructed and an effective riposte to Exile and Beds etc.
Well done!
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« Reply #1424 on: January 09, 2018, 20:50:12 pm »

Unfortunately I don't have a list of club commercial revenues. If you could point it out to me I'll happily check that there aren't any lower than ours that are higher in the pyramid (other than Wimbledon). As you are so knowledgeable on the subject, perhaps you could inform me as to whether there any that are higher commercial revenues than ours that are LOWER in the pyramid? There are two sides to every story and I'd like to check all the facts before jumping to a conclusion that you are correct. Stats can be quite misleading when used selectively.

In my opinion teams are built by good managers with good scouting networks, prudent chairmen, quality coaching, and a little luck. Spending cash helps, but it guarantees nothing, except perhaps a financial loss. Some clubs have gone bust spending more than they could repay. It turns out that not all businesses improve. Do you know how many businesses improved vs businesses that didn't or businesses that failed? It's scary. Invest, but only when it's right to do so. Use Darlington if you want a football version.

Let's now think through your house analogy. Yes I could borrow money, which comes at a risk, and pay it back over a long period of time. Of course I would have to be sure that my income was going to cover the repayments otherwise I'd be faced with repossession or less money for players than I had to start with. With interest rates on the rise it might be a larger fraction of my income than I thought. Of course, whether I was to loan the money or use the money I have already got in the bank is only part of the equation. I also need to get permission from the owner, given that I'm only in a leasehold house, planning permission, and the legalities sorted before I can spend any money on redeveloping my house. Sometimes this is frustrating when you really wanted that larger kitchen before the summer, but it just isn't possible. Sometimes people even object to my plans and then I have to justify everything and hope the powers that be decide in my favour.

We all thought we had spent a reasonable amount of money this summer. How can you be sure that if we had more, JED would not have spunked even more and still ended up with the kind of team he did? To assume money equals success is dangerous and myopic.

Finally, you suggest I have a little backward thinking arse. Well it's not as little as it used to be but thanks for the compliment. As for thinking, no, only my brain thinks. Forwards and backwards. I guess if you let your arse do the thinking it does at least explain some of your posts.
Just to add to your house analogy, what if you only needed to stay in your house on a Saturday and sometimes in the week, but the rest of the time you could sub lease out the bedrooms for the length of your loan because you didn't need the space? This is what a lot of clubs are doing with the space in stands. PNE used this model to build one of their stands.
I agree with you that just spending money doesn't mean success on the pitch.
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« Reply #1425 on: January 09, 2018, 22:09:30 pm »

As bad as the Cardozy situation turned out, I fully bought into it when he told me that we need a 365 day per year income coming in. I see the sense in that and I haven't changed that opinion. I'm not sure if a hotel was right, but a large function room and conferencing facilities could be.

It was the suggestion of spending a million slinging in a few boxes and a restaurant being the solution that I wasn't so sure about. That and the claim that NTFC's failure to do this is the reason we will be in league 2 next season (will we?) that prompted my lengthy posts in a debate I normally avoid.
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« Reply #1426 on: January 10, 2018, 06:57:54 am »

Unfortunately I don't have a list of club commercial revenues. If you could point it out to me I'll happily check that there aren't any lower than ours that are higher in the pyramid (other than Wimbledon). As you are so knowledgeable on the subject, perhaps you could inform me as to whether there any that are higher commercial revenues than ours that are LOWER in the pyramid? There are two sides to every story and I'd like to check all the facts before jumping to a conclusion that you are correct. Stats can be quite misleading when used selectively.

In my opinion teams are built by good managers with good scouting networks, prudent chairmen, quality coaching, and a little luck. Spending cash helps, but it guarantees nothing, except perhaps a financial loss. Some clubs have gone bust spending more than they could repay. It turns out that not all businesses improve. Do you know how many businesses improved vs businesses that didn't or businesses that failed? It's scary. Invest, but only when it's right to do so. Use Darlington if you want a football version.

Let's now think through your house analogy. Yes I could borrow money, which comes at a risk, and pay it back over a long period of time. Of course I would have to be sure that my income was going to cover the repayments otherwise I'd be faced with repossession or less money for players than I had to start with. With interest rates on the rise it might be a larger fraction of my income than I thought. Of course, whether I was to loan the money or use the money I have already got in the bank is only part of the equation. I also need to get permission from the owner, given that I'm only in a leasehold house, planning permission, and the legalities sorted before I can spend any money on redeveloping my house. Sometimes this is frustrating when you really wanted that larger kitchen before the summer, but it just isn't possible. Sometimes people even object to my plans and then I have to justify everything and hope the powers that be decide in my favour.

We all thought we had spent a reasonable amount of money this summer. How can you be sure that if we had more, JED would not have spunked even more and still ended up with the kind of team he did? To assume money equals success is dangerous and myopic.

Finally, you suggest I have a little backward thinking arse. Well it's not as little as it used to be but thanks for the compliment. As for thinking, no, only my brain thinks. Forwards and backwards. I guess if you let your arse do the thinking it does at least explain some of your posts.
Is this a case against ntfc having a better ground and match day facilities?
Why have you mentioned the little town of Darlington and there whopping great white elephant 25000 seater stadium ?
No one here asks for or wants that.

Good teams and management can be built at most places but only those with the infrastructure in place that can sustain momentum retain their squads or buy and sell profitably.

As for funding any redev in stages,  we could easily raise funds using several tried and tested ways using future incomes that would be paid back by the rise in match day / 365 day revenues. The Chinese or Kelvin need not mither the council or spend a penny of there own money.
Continual delays and inactivity  will harm our club.
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« Reply #1427 on: January 10, 2018, 09:17:42 am »


Para 1) Good teams and management can be built at most places but only those with the infrastructure in place that can sustain momentum retain their squads or buy and sell profitably.

Para2) As for funding any redev in stages,  we could easily raise funds using several tried and tested ways using future incomes that would be paid back by the rise in match day / 365 day revenues. The Chinese or Kelvin need not mither the council or spend a penny of there own money.
Continual delays and inactivity  will harm our club.

Para1) As a matter of interest can you please name the Clubs who meet this criteria - there can’t be that many?

Para 2) This appears to be misleading information;its never easy to raise and maintain funds for ReDev. If it was then somebody would be masterminding the project (perhaps you)?

As I understand it you are not an accountant or a financial ‘wizard’ but a Builders Tradesman - which is fine.
 It is unlikely you would have the qualifications to enable you to acquire the expertise necessary in financial projects. This is not a social comment but merely an observation on your comments in para 2.

You remind me of the Roman Politician who finished every speech with the tag ‘delenda est carthago’.That is the inevitable ref to KT etc directly or otherwise.

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« Reply #1428 on: January 10, 2018, 09:47:30 am »

Para1) As a matter of interest can you please name the Clubs who meet this criteria - there can’t be that many?

Para 2) This appears to be misleading information;its never easy to raise and maintain funds for ReDev. If it was then somebody would be masterminding the project (perhaps you)?

As I understand it you are not an accountant or a financial ‘wizard’ but a Plasterer. It is unlikely you would have the qualifications to enable you to acquire the expertise necessary in financial projects. This is not a social comment but merely an observation on your comments in para 2.

You remind me of the Roman Politician who finished every speech with the tag ‘delenda est carthago’.That is the inevitable ref to KT etc directly or otherwise.


Aren't we in the running to sign him?
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« Reply #1429 on: January 10, 2018, 10:04:44 am »

Unfortunately I don't have a list of club commercial revenues......

Well done Owl for all your thinking but what a pile of banal, risk averse drivel! The Darlington analogy took it to new depths then to have it endorsed by Neverite rubber stamps it.

The coaches, managers, scouts you all mention want paying and as in every sphere of life the best paid are usually the best at their jobs. This is why the moment we have any talent at the club the slightest opportunity comes along, whoosh, their off. So where is this money to come from to pay these people or are you happy with league two?

The only way to make profit is by risk, if you prefer to leave it in the bank you'll die poor. You invest, and I do take your point that not everything works out fine but that's life.

Without genuine investment in the stadium or the grounds the club faces no future whatsoever, it will be just the same as has for the last 50 years or worse. Until somebody finally builds the necessary commercial outlets the club will never have the finances and always be in debt to arseholes such as Cardoza and that's exactly what they want.

It doesn't need a "thinker" to work out something so plainly obvious.

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« Reply #1430 on: January 10, 2018, 10:28:37 am »



Without genuine investment in the stadium or the grounds the club faces no future whatsoever, it will be just the same as has for the last 50 years or worse. Until somebody finally builds the necessary commercial outlets the club will never have the finances and always be in debt to arseholes such as Cardoza and that's exactly what they want.
I think most agree with this, I certainly do. What people disagree on is what it means. Personally for me adding additional seats isn't required currently, in the home or away ends. What is needed is better corporate facilities and better marketing of the ones we have now. Since KT came in he seems to have started this with the development of the restaurant, using the small or large marquee for 'bigger' games and hosting a few small business lunches / meetings with local businesses. I'm not saying he cant or should have done more however and I don't see a lot (any) promoting the use of the restaurant etc on non match days.

I'm interested what you see as being the 'necessary commercial outlets'.
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« Reply #1431 on: January 10, 2018, 11:46:30 am »

I think most agree with this, I certainly do. What people disagree on is what it means. Personally for me adding additional seats isn't required currently, in the home or away ends. What is needed is better corporate facilities and better marketing of the ones we have now. Since KT came in he seems to have started this with the development of the restaurant, using the small or large marquee for 'bigger' games and hosting a few small business lunches / meetings with local businesses. I'm not saying he cant or should have done more however and I don't see a lot (any) promoting the use of the restaurant etc on non match days.

I'm interested what you see as being the 'necessary commercial outlets'.
Your personal preference, which happens to also be Thomas's which is to just fit some corperate  boxes into the shell and not do anything about making the ground a more attractive professional place to watch and play at. Players are swayed by better surroundings if ££ is similar.
Other down sides are, we wouldn't ever be able to progress far out of the bottom division which kills local interest in their club.
We would continue fleecing locals who decides on match days they would like to watch their local club and be hit with £24 to sit in an amature looking ground, never to rrturn. £20 in a more professional  atmospheric ground and they will be back, regularly.
Having strict admission criteria for our bigger games caused by low capacity  that keep gates down because people like to turn up when they can not being forced to always buy in advance or subjected to a data base only entry.

Never be able to build up our supporters base from a vast catchment in an area of young population. Sky sports will fill the void.
Benefits of leaving the ground in its present poor state.... None.   
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« Reply #1432 on: January 10, 2018, 12:06:09 pm »

Well done Owl for all your thinking but what a pile of banal, risk averse drivel! The Darlington analogy took it to new depths then to have it endorsed by Neverite rubber stamps it.


Owls post was well written and a decent riposte too. You should learn to be more gracious when confronted with a reasonably intelligent response. We have all listened over the past year or so to the persuasive opinions
of Beds,Mano4 etc and now you. What you all fail to grasp is by and large Forum Members have rejected the proposals outlined by the gang of 4(?).
There is some sympathy for Beds cause but with the type of reply you resort to is crude and does no favour to Beds Crusade; probably harms it. Are you actually a bona fida Supporter or merely a disgruntled ex pat living in a foreign country with an axe or two to grind?
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« Reply #1433 on: January 10, 2018, 12:11:22 pm »

Your personal preference, which happens to also be Thomas's which is to just fit some corperate  boxes into the shell and not do anything about making the ground a more attractive professional place to watch and play at. Players are swayed by better surroundings if ££ is similar.Other down sides are, we wouldn't ever be able to progress far out of the bottom division which kills local interest in their club.
We would continue fleecing locals who decides on match days they would like to watch their local club and be hit with £24 to sit in an amature looking ground, never to rrturn. £20 in a more professional  atmospheric ground and they will be back, regularly.
Having strict admission criteria for our bigger games caused by low capacity  that keep gates down because people like to turn up when they can not being forced to always buy in advance or subjected to a data base only entry.

Never be able to build up our supporters base from a vast catchment in an area of young population. Sky sports will fill the void.
Benefits of leaving the ground in its present poor state.... None.   
New signing Dean Bowditch says that playing his football in the ‘fantastic’ atmosphere at Sixfields was a key factor in him signing for the Cobblers. New signing Dean Bowditch says that playing his football in the ‘fantastic’ atmosphere at Sixfields was a key factor in him signing for the Cobblers. when you have such a big stadium, and not the amount of fans that you want, then sometimes you can get a little lost.Then you come to places like Sixfields, especially when I have been with the Dons, the atmosphere has been fantastic, and that was definitely one of the reasons I came here.

As I have said previously, I would love a better stadium with better corporate facilities but we don't have the owners who can give us that over night. Just fitting some corporate boxes into the shell will lead to increased revenue that can then be used to further invest and build up in a sustainable, necessary way.
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« Reply #1434 on: January 10, 2018, 12:33:11 pm »

We would continue fleecing locals who decides on match days they would like to watch their local club and be hit with £24 to sit in an amature looking ground, never to rrturn. £20 in a more professional  atmospheric ground and they will be back, regularly.
Having strict admission criteria for our bigger games caused by low capacity  that keep gates down because people like to turn up when they can not being forced to always buy in advance or subjected to a data base only entry.

Whatever the rights and wrongs of the development (or otherwise) argument, the bit quoted above would still happen even if we had a 20,000 seat stadium. Bigger games would be made all ticket / database only to prevent away fans rocking up and paying on the day to get into home areas.

I'm aware this happens now in some games (Sheff Utd anyone?) but that doesn't mean the club still wouldn't put measure is in place, even if the hypothetical 20,000 stadium was only getting ~5,000 a week
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« Reply #1435 on: January 10, 2018, 12:37:21 pm »

New signing Dean Bowditch says that playing his football in the ‘fantastic’ atmosphere at Sixfields was a key factor in him signing for the Cobblers. New signing Dean Bowditch says that playing his football in the ‘fantastic’ atmosphere at Sixfields was a key factor in him signing for the Cobblers. when you have such a big stadium, and not the amount of fans that you want, then sometimes you can get a little lost.Then you come to places like Sixfields, especially when I have been with the Dons, the atmosphere has been fantastic, and that was definitely one of the reasons I came here.

As I have said previously, I would love a better stadium with better corporate facilities but we don't have the owners who can give us that over night. Just fitting some corporate boxes into the shell will lead to increased revenue that can then be used to further invest and build up in a sustainable, necessary way.
Its a shame the atmospheric Sixfields didn't improve Bowditchs performances? Maybe he wasn't being 100% truthful 😂
The only reason I can think why Thomas believes that having boxes only is that he can claim they cost £4m after getting control of the vast amount leasehold up for grabs , which would give an impression of VFM, and then not bother his arse with the football clubs future??
Hopefully not that,  but the only alternative I can think of is he has a very low oppinion of what our football club could achieve if all the positives going for it were properly managed, which is a damn sight more than his promised boxes subject possibly  to nbc bending over.
Im still in the dark as to what is or not happening, but I would suspect one or two of the guess work and supposition by folk on here may have got close to the target forcing a rethink?
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« Reply #1436 on: January 10, 2018, 23:04:27 pm »

[1]Is this a case against ntfc having a better ground and match day facilities?
[2]Why have you mentioned the little town of Darlington and there whopping great white elephant 25000 seater stadium ?
No one here asks for or wants that.
[3]Good teams and management can be built at most places but only those with the infrastructure in place that can sustain momentum retain their squads or buy and sell profitably.
[4] we could easily raise funds using several tried and tested ways using future incomes that would be paid back by the rise in match day / 365 day revenues. The Chinese or Kelvin need not mither the council...
Continual delays and inactivity  will harm our club.

1. No.
2. Someone here was suggesting that we borrow and borrow again to spend and spend again on commercial facilities. I was trying to point out that this carries a great deal of risk and spending on facilities that don't get used does not work. Seats aren't the only possible white elephant. Sensible spending is constructive. Spending for spending's sake is a recipe for disaster.
3. Why? If most places can build good teams and management, why can't most places buy and sell profitably?
4. Fine. But don't they need to pursue the council for permission first? You seem to think that they can just do whatever they like, whenever they like.
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« Reply #1437 on: January 11, 2018, 00:19:51 am »

[1] The coaches, managers, scouts you all mention want paying and as in every sphere of life the best paid are usually the best at their jobs. This is why the moment we have any talent at the club the slightest opportunity comes along, whoosh, their off. So where is this money to come from to pay these people or are you happy with league two?

[2] The only way to make profit is by risk ...and I do take your point that not everything works out fine but that's life.

[3] Without genuine investment in the stadium or the grounds...


1. I did love that Championship winning season, when we did (just!) pay the coaching staff and scouts. In fact we're still paying coaches and scouts in L1, and I'll bet you we pay the current manager more than the successful one. I'm not happy with L2, but then we aren't in L2 either. Am I happy with L1? Yes. Perhaps a bash at the Championship every now and again would be nice, but nothing more thanks. I'm a different kind of supporter to you. I go to support them. I mean actually cheer them on. I enjoy it. Sometimes I even get stick for clapping them off after a terrible display and get branded a 'happy clapper'. Im not happy, I'm absolutely blimmin distraught, but if I know they tried their woeful best for my club, I'll appreciate it anyway. I enjoy supporting them at a sh1t hole park pitch in pre-season with no atmosphere, in freezing winds, or away at Anfield. Yes, I'd like to be proud of our stadium, but to me, I mostly just want a local league team to support. I'll tell you something, nobody likes the dark depressing days of clinging to L2 survival or being on the verge of nothingness, but they don't half make the good times even sweeter! I support a "big" club too. I watch them on tv and go to the odd game. I supported them before I supported the Cobbs. But I only have a season ticket at Sixfields. It's not as good a stadium as my other team, but it doesn't matter. The atmosphere isn't close to a par either. But I go to support my local team regardless, and do you know what, I enjoy it just as much, probably more. It actually would give me a difficult conflict if interests if NTFC got too high in the pyramid! Lots of fans are like me. Supporters like you, who would go to away games and line the coffers of other clubs, but not attend Sixfields to cheer your team on as you don't like the stadium, are quite different from me. That's not to say one is better than the other. We all want the best for our team and can enjoy the game in different ways.

2. Woah. Firstly, no it's not the only way. Where on Earth do you get an idea like that? I'll grant you that high risk can bring high reward. But it can also bring the end. When you admit that not everything works out, do you realise that we have 120 years of history at stake? This is not a rich guy losing his Ferrari or a limited company that liquidates and reforms where it left off. This is an institution for the people of Northampton and beyond. It cannot be allowed to die. (It might not bother you if you can't go to support anyway and you can still log on here and debate the good old days and pick apart where it went wrong.) I want to progress steadily, not lump it all on black and if we liquidate into nothingness then oh well. I'm really not risk averse, especially with other people's money, but (like the home analogy again) losing your home for your family is too much to contemplate losing. Some things you can't gamble on. You must make sensible progressive business decisions.

3. We all agree. It's your sh1t or bust approach that I disagree with I'm afraid. It's only my opinion, but it counts as much as yours.
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« Reply #1438 on: January 11, 2018, 07:03:10 am »

Owl, can I firstly thank you for your engaging reply, I also apologise if my manner comes along a little brusque on occasions, but that's the way I am so why hide it here?

We are brothers in arms, lifelong supporters, although unlike yourself I only have the one heart and I could never get in bed with anyone else other than my beloved Cobblers. Until I moved to sunnier shores through my work some time ago now I'd often attend 46 plus games a season and this all started in 1981. At the impressionable age of 12, a new light in my life arrived on visiting the County Ground for the first time, a night game, although I think that may have been the floodlights! Either way, I've stood proudly amongst my fellow supporters in the dark days and the few amazing times we've had. I've lost my bits stood in freezing North sea gales in Hartlepool on a Tuesday, cried tears against Crewe when seeing the team lift that trophy in front of an electric Hotel End, the Shrewsburys, Maidstones and Torquays. Even flying back just for Dagenham, he's one of our own and of course John Frain.

Though all the furor on here we have a simple equation right now and I hope amongst hopes that KT is trying to deliver something tangible for the clubs future. Either we rely on a sugar daddy to prop up the club, to whom we will incur debt, or the stadium is used to deliver more cash towards the football, managers and players we want and incur less debt to sustain a similar level. Both have costs and debt although the debt for development has so many options, flexibility and dimensions compared to owing a bastard such as Cardoza.

I'm afraid I will have to disagree to a fraction, risk is involved in everything we do, however it's obvious that risk can be offset or limited. I've spent a lifetime working on seemingly risky developments, turning often unwanted areas into thriving, welcoming and vibrant places to live. I'm just a tiny cog but have been fortunate to have worked with some of the finest architects in the world, possibly where I get the language from!

The East stand as we know it, and obviously depending on the legal minefield, has many options. Carefully, stage by stage, certainly not shit and bust as you allude to, it could become extremely profitable, add a potential hotel or apartments squeezed into a corner or corners, the club could be able to sustain a level above it does today. Maybe only marginally but most importantly without the feast and famine of relying on individuals. Careful and imaginative design can create a spark and can be promoted, not to your average fan, but to a wealth of investors, companies and individuals.

Of course this all hinges on the current owners to break the vicious cycle and just as we debate the teams selection and management, there's fuck all we can do!

Maybe off topic but then I'm a genuine disappearing punter.

Evers, it's not a crusade, you said exactly the same when a few started questioning Cardoza, you were wrong then, you're wrong now.

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« Reply #1439 on: January 11, 2018, 07:15:38 am »

Whatever the rights and wrongs of the development (or otherwise) argument, the bit quoted above would still happen even if we had a 20,000 seat stadium. Bigger games would be made all ticket / database only to prevent away fans rocking up and paying on the day to get into home areas.

I'm aware this happens now in some games (Sheff Utd anyone?) but that doesn't mean the club still wouldn't put measure is in place, even if the hypothetical 20,000 stadium was only getting ~5,000 a week
try a hypothetical 12000 ground, kelvin pulled the old over exagerated 30k nonsence to scaremonger against a ground redev..
If you suspect over 12000  will want to attend..all ticket
If you susoect 10,000 may attend.. promote it to the hilt, get in some revenues.

With just 7000 we have no choice but implement restrictions on admission several times a season even in our awful non leaguesque  ground.
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