Disappearing Punters?

[bri77]

See this is where you lose it,

A 3000 bank of terracing will not automatically be filled, atmospheric or make Sixfields a place of pride (especially when you have said in the past it should be the away stand)

Plus the fact that the East stand being finished before we start any other work has been conveniently been ignored by you in the past.

[BedsCobb]

See this is where you lose it,

A 3000 bank of terracing will not automatically be filled, atmospheric or make Sixfields a place of pride (especially when you have said in the past it should be the away stand)

Plus the fact that the East stand being finished before we start any other work has been conveniently been ignored by you in the past.

You talk like you know when the East stand will finally be fitted out...Thomas and co dont even know when lover 2 years  on.
It will all depend on the generosity of the nbc in giving the unconditional generous  land leases and then we can hope what we get for our share will be  worth the wait... I doubt it.
A provisionally shared bank of 3000 terracing  will attract  more home and visitors due to the simple fact we all go to football for A day out, meet with family and friends, have a few beers then  watch our local heros hopefully win in an exciting atmospheric stadium of which most find Sixfields badly lacking.
Would you bri77,  be more likely to visit a professional looking atmospheric stadium than a windswept one that has tiny shed like stands void of atmosphere? Yes you would.
If it were your job to sell ntfc to the next generation  fan base or re engage with those underwhelmed with the Sixfields experience,  Im sure the more professional set up would make life a whole lot easier.

[bri77]

You talk like you know when the East stand will finally be fitted out...Thomas and co dont even know when lover 2 years  on.
It will all depend on the generosity of the nbc in giving the unconditional generous  land leases and then we can hope what we get for our share will be  worth the wait... I doubt it.
A provisionally shared bank of 3000 terracing  will attract  more home and visitors due to the simple fact we all go to football for A day out, meet with family and friends, have a few beers then  watch our local heros hopefully win in an exciting atmospheric stadium of which most find Sixfields badly lacking.
Would you bri77,  be more likely to visit a professional looking atmospheric stadium than a windswept one that has tiny shed like stands void of atmosphere? Yes you would.
If it were your job to sell ntfc to the next generation  fan base or re engage with those underwhelmed with the Sixfields experience,  Im sure the more professional set up would make life a whole lot easier.

You always talk about unconditional leases etc, it was my understanding that there were two overlapping leases which was one of the main issues. It will never be worth the wait due to the shambles it was left in but if it's easier for you to vent all your annoyance about it at KT you crack on. The time will come if there is no progress on the East stand KT will need to answer some serious questions and the day is getting closer but it is not quite here yet.

A professional looking atmospheric stadium? This is all subjective and what you and I would consider these things could be completely different. Besides as much as I love away games I am more inclined to be going if the team is doing well, the championship season I missed one away game, this year I have been to 4. The 'professionalism' of the ground is not my deciding factor. I would still go to Stanley, Bristol Rovers, Gillingham, Crawley, etc if the team is on a roll.

Your argument that it would increase crowds is so flawed it's laughable you have no way of knowing this as a fact as it is all opinion based and where has this shared terrace come from it has always been your argument that it is needed for the away stand?

As for re-engaging with fans feeling underwhelmed look at the resistance the safe standing survey received. This would be a much better way of making the ground more professional (my opinion and not fact )
and also wouldn't cause issues in the future if we ever stumbled into the championship.

[BedsCobb]

You always talk about unconditional leases etc, it was my understanding that there were two overlapping leases which was one of the main issues. It will never be worth the wait due to the shambles it was left in but if it's easier for you to vent all your annoyance about it at KT you crack on. The time will come if there is no progress on the East stand KT will need to answer some serious questions and the day is getting closer but it is not quite here yet.

A professional looking atmospheric stadium? This is all subjective and what you and I would consider these things could be completely different. Besides as much as I love away games I am more inclined to be going if the team is doing well, the championship season I missed one away game, this year I have been to 4. The 'professionalism' of the ground is not my deciding factor. I would still go to Stanley, Bristol Rovers, Gillingham, Crawley, etc if the team is on a roll.

Your argument that it would increase crowds is so flawed it's laughable you have no way of knowing this as a fact as it is all opinion based and where has this shared terrace come from it has always been your argument that it is needed for the away stand?

As for re-engaging with fans feeling underwhelmed look at the resistance the safe standing survey received. This would be a much better way of making the ground more professional (my opinion and not fact )
and also wouldn't cause issues in the future if we ever stumbled into the championship.

Are you saying we must wait indefinitely before questioning the lack of action on any redev?
You know when the time is right?😂
Its a shame you didn't step in when cardoza strung us out for a decade of inactivity.

What would the following teams do if they found they had less than 6500 seats to sell to their catchment in a very uninspiring ground..oxford luton posh swindon gillingham shrews doncaster brentford watford etc etc.....
One things for sure is they wouldn't piss ball worrying about rectifying the situation like us they would get something done the following summer!
What makes us so unique that we have to  suffer owners who keep our club subjected to zero growth?
When I first saw all those little tit bits being carried out in the name of progress I knew we were ######.
How can we afford all these new signings  when our infrastructure is circa 1996 and hardly any corperate facilities?
We could become  basket cases again that suck up multi millions of unsustainable debts that stop any future progress for the next 2 decades?

As for your preference to old school and non league inadequate grounds like sixfields, thats fine but in this day and age the paying customers want a better match day experience and will choose were they do or dont go.
Sixfields is a turn off for both home and visiting fans despite being in a brilliant location.

[rebelspawn]

Are you saying we must wait indefinitely before questioning the lack of action on any redev?
You know when the time is right?😂
Its a shame you didn't step in when cardoza strung us out for a decade of inactivity.

What would the following teams do if they found they had less than 6500 seats to sell to their catchment in a very uninspiring ground..oxford luton posh swindon gillingham shrews doncaster brentford watford etc etc.....
One things for sure is they wouldn't **** ball worrying about rectifying the situation like us they would get something done the following summer!
What makes us so unique that we have to  suffer owners who keep our club subjected to zero growth?
When I first saw all those little tit bits being carried out in the name of progress I knew we were ######.
How can we afford all these new signings  when our infrastructure is circa 1996 and hardly any corperate facilities?
We could become  basket cases again that suck up multi millions of unsustainable debts that stop any future progress for the next 2 decades?

As for your preference to old school and non league inadequate grounds like sixfields, thats fine but in this day and age the paying customers want a better match day experience and will choose were they do or dont go.
Sixfields is a turn off for both home and visiting fans despite being in a brilliant location.

Is your 3000 bank of terracing going to have a roof on Beds, or are you proposing a Gillingham style solution?

[WadeyCobbler]

People have said to me that they would go to watch the Cobblers if we still played at the County Ground or if Sixfields had standing. Others would also go more often if they could get 'good seats' I.e. Near my season ticket or not near the front or stuck in corners. Clearly other clubs that sell out have people sitting at the front or in the corners but our small stands make that option sooner. Also bigger stands, seated or standing would get bigger crowds for the bigger games and successful periods where hopefully many would become regulars. The 2015-16 all-conquering season, our best for 30 years, we were limited to just 5,500 as no East Stand for the majority of the season. The dilapidated but bigger County Ground pulled in 11,000 during the last most successful season back in 1986/87.

[BedsCobb]

Is your 3000 bank of terracing going to have a roof on Beds, or are you proposing a Gillingham style solution?

No ground that hosts football in northern europe in winter time should expose  paying customers to the winter elements.
Got to have a roof on it as it also adds to the atmosphere.
We may end up with jack 5hit but knowing what it is that we're missing out on stops the belittling  bull 5hitters in their tracks.

[guest3114]

People have said to me that they would go to watch the Cobblers if we still played at the County Ground or if Sixfields had standing. Others would also go more often if they could get 'good seats' I.e. Near my season ticket or not near the front or stuck in corners. Clearly other clubs that sell out have people sitting at the front or in the corners but our small stands make that option sooner. Also bigger stands, seated or standing would get bigger crowds for the bigger games and successful periods where hopefully many would become regulars. The 2015-16 all-conquering season, our best for 30 years, we were limited to just 5,500 as no East Stand for the majority of the season. The dilapidated but bigger County Ground pulled in 11,000 during the last most successful season back in 1986/87.

It did, Peterborough if I recall and didn’t we build a temporary meccano stand on the cricket side as well for that game? The atmosphere made the hairs on the back of my neck stand up that day. Say what you like about the ground, and many of the comments are valid, but what happens on the pitch will always massively outweigh anything you do off it when it comes to promoting a club to the masses. I actually think the main problem with Sixfields is not the stands but where it’s located. Too hard to get to for many in the town, and many of us said so from day one. Sixfields was built at, well Sixfields, because that was where land was a available as much as anything else? When I was about 14 I’d walk to the county ground. That’s 2 return bus trips for most now? Relocating to the town centre, now that’s progress. I’m losing touch with reality again aren’t I ?

[BedsCobb]

It did, Peterborough if I recall and didn’t we build a temporary meccano stand on the cricket side as well for that game? The atmosphere made the hairs on the back of my neck stand up that day. Say what you like about the ground, and many of the comments are valid, but what happens on the pitch will always massively outweigh anything you do off it when it comes to promoting a club to the masses. I actually think the main problem with Sixfields is not the stands but where it’s located. Too hard to get to for many in the town, and many of us said so from day one. Sixfields was built at, well Sixfields, because that was where land was a available as much as anything else? When I was about 14 I’d walk to the county ground. That’s 2 return bus trips for most now? Relocating to the town centre, now that’s progress. I’m losing touch with reality again aren’t I ?

you do know Sixfields is twice as close to the town centre than the old county ground?
Its 20 mins brisk walk / 10 mins bus ride from the station and you pass several food outlets and 6 pubs!
Sixfields is in an excellent location with its easy access to the M1 and just off the main ring road.
Its just the embarrasing  inadequacy of the ground thats killing our clubs growth.
It needs sorting.

[Cobbler78]

you do know Sixfields is twice as close to the town centre than the old county ground?
Its 20 mins brisk walk / 10 mins bus ride from the station and you pass several food outlets and 6 pubs!
Sixfields is in an excellent location with its easy access to the M1 and just off the main ring road.
Its just the embarrasing  inadequacy of the ground thats killing our clubs growth.
It needs sorting.

Where would you call the town centre, the market square? If so I’d say the County Ground is closer.....

[bri77]

Are you saying we must wait indefinitely before questioning the lack of action on any redev?
You know when the time is right?😂
Its a shame you didn't step in when cardoza strung us out for a decade of inactivity.

What would the following teams do if they found they had less than 6500 seats to sell to their catchment in a very uninspiring ground..oxford luton posh swindon gillingham shrews doncaster brentford watford etc etc.....
One things for sure is they wouldn't **** ball worrying about rectifying the situation like us they would get something done the following summer!
What makes us so unique that we have to  suffer owners who keep our club subjected to zero growth?
When I first saw all those little tit bits being carried out in the name of progress I knew we were ######.
How can we afford all these new signings  when our infrastructure is circa 1996 and hardly any corperate facilities?
We could become  basket cases again that suck up multi millions of unsustainable debts that stop any future progress for the next 2 decades?



As for your preference to old school and non league inadequate grounds like sixfields, thats fine but in this day and age the paying customers want a better match day experience and will choose were they do or dont go.
Sixfields is a turn off for both home and visiting fans despite being in a brilliant location.

See that's where you lose any credibility, calling Sixfields a non league inadequate ground is laughable. Have you been to many matches in the conference / Conference north and south? If you think Sixfields is on a par with the majority of clubs there you have clearly lost the plot.

As for Cardoza, how on earth do you know what I did or didn't do regarding Cardoza, don't make assumptions about me based on your hatred of the club and KT.

Pretty sure I said the time is nearly there for redevelopment questions, how is that waiting indefinitely?

You can repeat your wants about Sixfields all you like but you are so blinkered in your hatred of all things Cobblers you can't accept your 'vision' is not the only way forward.

So at the risk of me repeating myself as much as you, I'll leave you to crack on 'changing the world' from the safety of your keyboard.

[rebelspawn]

It did, Peterborough if I recall and didn’t we build a temporary meccano stand on the cricket side as well for that game? The atmosphere made the hairs on the back of my neck stand up that day. Say what you like about the ground, and many of the comments are valid, but what happens on the pitch will always massively outweigh anything you do off it when it comes to promoting a club to the masses. I actually think the main problem with Sixfields is not the stands but where it’s located. Too hard to get to for many in the town, and many of us said so from day one. Sixfields was built at, well Sixfields, because that was where land was a available as much as anything else? When I was about 14 I’d walk to the county ground. That’s 2 return bus trips for most now? Relocating to the town centre, now that’s progress. I’m losing touch with reality again aren’t I ?

I disagree with with Beds on pretty much everything, but one thing i agree on that the club need to consider the catchment area as the county and not just the town. We have many fans coming from outside of Northampton itself, not to mention the away fans.

Sixfields is easy to get to by car for the out of Towners, has adequate parking and doesn't take long to get out of after the game (as long as the egg chasers haven't put their traffic management in place). These are all things i think about when deciding whether to attend away grounds also (as well as on the field factors and whether the stand is covered in the middle of winter). Bristol Rovers is a nightmare for away fans because its street parking in highly residential areas. Oxford has ample parking but is an absolute nightmare to get out of afterwards. I honestly believe that we have one of the best grounds for access for both sets of fans.

I am not sure what the train and bus arrangement are like though to be fair. Maybe they could be improved? But i think i town centre relocation would be a bad idea at this point. When you look at the various stadia across the country and how they utilise the land to generate additional revenues, a cramped town centre location with no parking and stand that back onto to peoples gardens offer little potential in this respect.

I despise MK, but i also respect what they have built (in the literal sense, not the football club). The location of sixfields means that we could have done/could do something similar, if and when a decent business case is made to do so. I have yet to see one, and Beds' fag packet calculations don't cut it for me.

[Manwork04]

There you go.....
http://democracy.york.gov.uk/documents/s19763/Annex%205%20Community%20Stadium.pdf
Read this and then stop talking bollox.

[rebelspawn]

There you go.....
http://democracy.york.gov.uk/documents/s19763/Annex%205%20Community%20Stadium.pdf
Read this and then stop talking bollox.

Is that aimed at me?

I have read it. can you tell me which part of what i say is bollox? It seems to agree with the first part of my post entirely. It does not contain a business case for NTFC based on the current shell of an east stand and the current lease constraints. Hence the second part of my comment.

[OldStratfordCobbler]

People have said to me that they would go to watch the Cobblers if we still played at the County Ground or if Sixfields had standing. Others would also go more often if they could get 'good seats' I.e. Near my season ticket or not near the front or stuck in corners. Clearly other clubs that sell out have people sitting at the front or in the corners but our small stands make that option sooner. Also bigger stands, seated or standing would get bigger crowds for the bigger games and successful periods where hopefully many would become regulars. The 2015-16 all-conquering season, our best for 30 years, we were limited to just 5,500 as no East Stand for the majority of the season. The dilapidated but bigger County Ground pulled in 11,000 during the last most successful season back in 1986/87.

Sorry to p*ss on your bonfire, Lee, but during the successful 1986-87 season I think we had only one attendance of 11,000. That was the Cardiff game on the 28th December 1986. A lot of the attendances that season were pretty average but increased as the season progressed. Mainly 5000, 6000, 7000 gates.

[BedsCobb]

See that's where you lose any credibility, calling Sixfields a non league inadequate ground is laughable. Have you been to many matches in the conference / Conference north and south? If you think Sixfields is on a par with the majority of clubs there you have clearly lost the plot.

As for Cardoza, how on earth do you know what I did or didn't do regarding Cardoza, don't make assumptions about me based on your hatred of the club and KT.

Pretty sure I said the time is nearly there for redevelopment questions, how is that waiting indefinitely?

You can repeat your wants about Sixfields all you like but you are so blinkered in your hatred of all things Cobblers you can't accept your 'vision' is not the only way forward.

So at the risk of me repeating myself as much as you, I'll leave you to crack on 'changing the world' from the safety of your keyboard.

So your defence is that Sixfields is not  a 5hite as the smaller towns amateur  non league  grounds so we need not worry?
Yes you get on with some work😂😂

[GrangeParkCobbler]

Sorry to p*ss on your bonfire, Lee, but during the successful 1986-87 season I think we had only one attendance of 11,000. That was the Cardiff game on the 28th December 1986. A lot of the attendances that season were pretty average but increased as the season progressed. Mainly 5000, 6000, 7000 gates.

The gates started off low, increased a lot up to Christmas/New Year when that 11,138 against Cardiff was achieved. Gates fell away as we weren't getting so many good results in the second half of the season. Indeed the league game after we took 3000 to Newcastle for the cup game was only 5,500 against Rochdale.

Gates picked up again towards the end of the season, but the final game against Crewe attracted just short of 9,000. There was also a 10,600 gate for the Southend Cup replay, but in the main it was as you said above.

[Manwork04]

Is that aimed at me?

I have read it. can you tell me which part of what i say is bollox? It seems to agree with the first part of my post entirely. It does not contain a business case for NTFC based on the current shell of an east stand and the current lease constraints. Hence the second part of my comment.

No it wasn't, but I would like to know what the lease constraints are that you mention and how that would prohibit the type of business case in the example from PNE, care to enlighten me?

[rebelspawn]

No it wasn't, but I would like to know what the lease constraints are that you mention and how that would prohibit the type of business case in the example from PNE, care to enlighten me?

I don't know the specifics about the lease situation but i have heard rumours ranging from '2 leases for the land' to 'the lease doesnt enable adequate access to the stand to meet regulations'

The PNE example is an interesting one, as are all of them. It has £26 million price tag and does not detail how the initial capital was raised or what the increased revenue per annum was. No mention of return on invest or payback period. EDIT - i do see there some numbers and breakdowns later on the document, but they are not comprehensive and state a 25 year payback period.

You can't even begin to put together a business case for NTFC without those key pieces of information.

My original post was about how cramped town centre stadiums are not the way forward (in response to Melbourne suggesting we move to the town centre - albeit tongue in cheek - i think). Look at the use of space in each of those examples in the document and it only proves my original point. Office space, Gym space, conference facilities, accommodation. they all benefit from significant parking and reasonable space around the perimeter of the stadium.

[Rach]

I think greyfriars would be perfect for a new stadium 👌