Summer signings

[Welly Cobb]

We've been going on about 'quality over quantity' for a few years now. The problem with it is that the quality that is brought in will never meet expectations across the board, which means that replacements are brought in to try and rectify it. The chaff build up across the year as you slowly replace players one by one because the fans clamour for changes if you're not winning every game. You need options to be competetive, gambling a lot of your budget on the idea a player will come good enough to propel you up the league is risky.

[Wolvo]

Id bring Bayo back on a tasty 1 year contract...chuck Millwall 100-200k to get Marquis

Bayo and Marquis would be quality together. Marcus Kelly left wing, Asa Hall central midfield ... would be an exciting squad!

[DrillingCobbler]

To be fair Welly, most of the time (Id say 90%) you get what you pay for.

When the club signs a 18-21 year old loanee, from a prem/championship club...we know theres a 90% chance that they will be sh it! Look at that geezer we signed from Huddersfield a couple of months ago, absolutely awful!

And thats the problem. From August 9th - late January, you will not get teams from the league above letting you have quality out of favour players like Horwood.

Platt, Constantine, Guinan...all old donkeys that have cost us a fortune in wages and not scored any goals. And thats only since we've been relegated 5 years ago! Its almost a guarantee that we end up with a mid 30's, non scoring striker on 2 - 3 grand a week and taking up a disproportionate amount of the budget! DC/NTFC has to learn from these mistakes, and not allow Wilder...even if he wants to...to bring another one of them in. IF we sign Constable from Oxford (he's 30 in October), please let it be just on a one year deal. Theres no asset value in these players, they are only going to get worse!

As I say, 20-22 GOOD PLAYERS...and top it up with loans. More than doable on the budgets we've had in recent years.

[DrillingCobbler]

Bayo and Marquis would be quality together. Marcus Kelly left wing, Asa Hall central midfield ... would be an exciting squad!

YEP! 

[Welly Cobb]

To be fair Welly, most of the time (Id say 90%) you get what you pay for.

When the club signs a 18-21 year old loanee, from a prem/championship club...we know theres a 90% chance that they will be sh it! Look at that geezer we signed from Huddersfield a couple of months ago, absolutely awful!

And thats the problem. From August 9th - late January, you will not get teams from the league above letting you have quality out of favour players like Horwood.

Platt, Constantine, Guinan...all old donkeys that have cost us a fortune in wages and not scored any goals. And thats only since we've been relegated 5 years ago! Its almost a guarantee that we end up with a mid 30's, non scoring striker on 2 - 3 grand a week and taking up a disproportionate amount of the budget! DC/NTFC has to learn from these mistakes, and not allow Wilder...even if he wants to...to bring another one of them in. IF we sign Constable from Oxford (he's 30 in October), please let it be just on a one year deal. Theres no asset value in these players, they are only going to get worse!

As I say, 20-22 GOOD PLAYERS...and top it up with loans. More than doable on the budgets we've had in recent years.

I think it's fair to say that taken to the extreme, having 30 players on non-league wages would not create a good squad. I just think having a small squad is risky, and the policy  over the last years of trying to develop small, top-heavy squads hasn't worked. Mainly because the people picking the quality haven't done it very well, and there's no guarantee that will change.

[John]

Well thanks for all the recent contributions to the thread but if you don't mind I'm going to leave it to Wilder, he seems to know what he's doing.

[TownOwl]

We've been going on about 'quality over quantity' for a few years now. The problem with it is that the quality that is brought in will never meet expectations across the board, which means that replacements are brought in to try and rectify it. The chaff build up across the year

But is that not one of our main failings? Why do we have a accept that whatever we do we'll end up with players that aren't good enough?

Whether you look at is as a business or a football team, surely you want to invest your money wisely. Be thorough and deliberate with your planning and risk assessment. i.e. Scouting network, watching players in other games, contacts within the game, trials, friendlies/behind closed doors games. Surely we should have identified targets, doing enough research to determine that they are indeed quality players over a period of time, and ideally young enough to improve and sell on at a profit.

Okay, even Sir Alex signed some donkeys but there are examples of clubs that can do this time and time again. Unfortunately the P*sh are a great example. Some get it more right than wrong. We get it far more wrong than right. Look at the most recent summers under ADB and GJ. We've ended up getting some unknowns in for a trial and signed them up because they looked average against non-league opposition in a friendly and they did well in a fitness test. (Corker, Hooper et al.)

As Drilling said, it's evolution. During the season you learn your weakest positions in the team. Plan to replace them, identify and research your targets. Then in the summer, keep your stronger players, replace your 2/3 weakest players with your well researched realistic targets and go again. Ideally you want someone younger and better. And so it goes on. I can't remember the last time we had a summer like that.Our biggest sales for profit have been our own youth. Who was the last player we bought and sold on for a profit?

[semilong cobbler]

Bradley Johnson, not sure how much we signed him for, but sold him on for 250k

[Wolvo]

Bradley Johnson, not sure how much we signed him for, but sold him on for 250k

In hindsight, that now appears like a loss!

[Bristol Cobbler]

I'm afraid I don't understand the continued obsession for Bayo. He's had his day with us twice now, would we really want a third? How old is he now? Must be well past 30.

[bungle]

Platt, Constantine, Guinan...all old donkeys that have cost us a fortune in wages and not scored any goals. And thats only since we've been relegated 5 years ago! Its almost a guarantee that we end up with a mid 30's, non scoring striker on 2 - 3 grand a week and taking up a disproportionate amount of the budget!

Amen. Going further back, you can add James Quinn and Paul Wilkinson to that list. With a few honorable exceptions (Cureton, Kitson?) when strikers get past 33/34 they lose their pace and hunger and often seem content to nick a living.

We've got enough experience in the squad now. What we need is some young, hungry players who want to make progress and develop with us, not use us as a final pay day.

[The 12th Marquis of Sixfields]

Well thanks for all the recent contributions to the thread but if you don't mind I'm going to leave it to Wilder, he seems to know what he's doing.

thank fu.ck, a safe haven from him all summer!

and as for bayo, give it a rest. I'm thinking of censoring his name on here, I read it more times since he's left than I ever did when he was here

[The 12th Marquis of Sixfields]

Surprised no-ones really mentoined him yet, but Luke Norris has just been given a longer deal by Brentford.

well hes not gonna be a signing then is he, therefore why would he feature on here

[Cobblerzz]

Would anyone take Rob Jones from Bradford. I know he isn't the youngest but would be a good signing in my opinion. Looks like a winner!

[Carlo Corazzins Corduroy]

To be fair Welly, most of the time (Id say 90%) you get what you pay for.

When the club signs a 18-21 year old loanee, from a prem/championship club...we know theres a 90% chance that they will be sh it! Look at that geezer we signed from Huddersfield a couple of months ago, absolutely awful!

And thats the problem. From August 9th - late January, you will not get teams from the league above letting you have quality out of favour players like Horwood.

As I say, 20-22 GOOD PLAYERS...and top it up with loans. More than doable on the budgets we've had in recent years.

OK so that you think we should sign 'good' players, but what do you actually mean by that?

Each strategy has it's fair share of decent players and flops. None are fool-proof, it's simply down to the manager's ability of judgement.

a) Established players released by League One or Two clubs.
b) Youth talent released by Premier League clubs.
c) Veterans who are forced to drop down a couple of divisons.
d) Purchase an in-demand proven players.
e) Quality players recovering from long-term injuries.

All have had their own fair share of wins and losses over the years.

[guest47]

OK so that you think we should sign 'good' players, but what do you actually mean by that?

Each strategy has it's fair share of decent players and flops. None are fool-proof, it's simply down to the manager's ability of judgement.

a) Established players released by League One or Two clubs.
b) Youth talent released by Premier League clubs.
c) Veterans who are forced to drop down a couple of divisons.
d) Purchase an in-demand proven players.
e) Quality players recovering from long-term injuries.

All have had their own fair share of wins and losses over the years.

That's exactly it and managers throughout the lower leagues are facing the same dilemma. Unless the club is prepared to pay significantly more than others it's all a massive gamble. That's why I have no problem with Johnson or Boothroyd for getting it wrong.
Let's face it there's no concrete reason to expect Chris Wilder will do any better. I sincerely hope he does but I won't vilify him if it goes the way of the previous two.

[John]

That's why I have no problem with Johnson or Boothroyd for getting it wrong.

Good for you. I could strangle the pair of them.

[Carlo Corazzins Corduroy]

Posh are continually cited as being an example that large expenditure can be recuperated.

But to do that you need the capital for at least 6 or 7 big signings, as only one will prove good enough to be picked up by a bigger club.

For every Dwight Gayle, there's a Tyrone Barnett, Emile Sinclair and Nicky Ajose. The latter three costing the best part of £1.5m and yet still failed to make any sort of impact.

Of course they made the money back on the Gayler transfer, but to do that they took a risk only they can absorb at this level. For instance if you gave me £100,000 to buy shares, I'm confident I'd return a profit. But that doesn't mean I'd be willing to use my house as collateral to do so.  

[cobbler150]

Personally I don't want that Constable, I think hes average and most of his goals for oxford come against us. Ryan Hall would be a nice addition and Lee Cox from Swindon. Always liked that Kaid Mohamed, think he has been released, causing problems for anyone at this level

[Tyro]

I've been impressed with Lloyd Isgrove at Boro, on loan from Southampton, reminds me of Danny Jackman.