Redevelopment questions

[guest168]

I like the idea of the ground looking like the first impressions DC put out for the first 8 years 

All this "future" improvement and expansion is a joke.

At the forum can someone ask DC where EXACTLY will the money come from to fund any expansion.Remind him he talked about development to the detriment of the club as a whole for 10 years and done nothing until the Council gave him the money.

Perhaps there is an agreement that the council will help him out again anytime soon.

This development has very little to do with the club !!!!    £5 million for the East stand debacle !   Tells it own story

 

[bungle]

All this "future" improvement and expansion is a joke.

At the forum can someone ask DC where EXACTLY will the money come from to fund any expansion.y

 

The plan is that the money for further expansion (and presumably further investment in the playing budget) will be generated from the hotel, the conference centre, the gym and the executive boxes. That seems pretty clear to me.

If those revenue streams fail over the next three -four years, and we fail to make further progress on and off the field, then you'll be perfectly entitled to refer to the project as a 'joke'. Until then, I would suggest that you need to be a tad more patient and look at the bigger picture.

[sbedscobb]

The plan is that the money for further expansion (and presumably further investment in the playing budget) will be generated from the hotel, the conference centre, the gym and the executive boxes. That seems pretty clear to me.

If those revenue streams fail over the next three -four years, and we fail to make further progress on and off the field, then you'll be perfectly entitled to refer to the project as a 'joke'. Until then, I would suggest that you need to be a tad more patient and look at the bigger picture.

So you would be happy to wait another 4 years in the faint hope we get another windfall in which to deliver a fit and proper ground in which to build the club... Having just spunked enough money that would've  delivered it now?

We've blown it royally.

[bungle]

So you would be happy to wait another 4 years in the faint hope we get another windfall in which to deliver a fit and proper ground in which to build the club... Having just spunked enough money that would've  delivered it now?

We've blown it royally.

Ok. Let's say that after spending around 2.5 million on necessary changes to the dressing rooms, the floodlights, relocating the athletics club etc, DC had decided to spend the rest on upgrading the capacity to 15K.

What then?

The answer, as I see it, is that we'd have a season playing in a half empty stadium (we might get 8k-9K when Portsmouth come to town if we were lucky). After that, the best case scenario would see us in league one where we might average 7k-8K (again this is highly optimistic - even in the heady Atkins days when we up behind Watford in second place we didn't have too many sell out crowds). Where would the money come from to substantially increase our playing budget? Of course, the worst case scenario would be that we fail to get promotion and spend another season in League Two playing in front of a half empty stadium with no increase in revenue whatsoever (I believe this is known as 'Darlington syndrome').

Realistically, I can't see us getting 10k+ crowds until if and when we're in the Championship. Therefore it makes no sense to expand the ground to those levels until if and when we get there.

My argument is that it's simply too early to judge the success of this project.

[The 12th Marquis of Sixfields]

You can't really use Darlington as an example in anything because of the George Reynolds factor, he built that stadium as a monument to himself even naming it after himself. The man was a crook and an egotist. There are plenty of other examples where clubs have built stadia far bigger than they needed at the time. Cardiff, Swansea, Hull, Stoke, Brighton...

[GrangeParkCobbler]

There are plenty of clubs who have boxes, conferencing facilities et al, but don't turn a profit for one reason or another! Look down the road at what happened to Rushden! Their boxes, facilites and Diamond Centre didn't do them much good did it? Take Wycombe....similar sized ground to us, but with boxes and facilites, money coming in from rugby groundsharing....remind me of were they finished last season?!

Fact is there is no guarantee that boxes make money, that conference centres make money, that hotels make money. Certainly no proof that that money will indeed come out as profit. No guarantee that the profits gained (if any) will make it so that we don't have to rely on injections from DC or Mr Jackson just to break even.

Similarly there is no guarantee that ploughing money into the team produces the required results on the pitch!!

Those teams listed above by Marquis did, I believe, get their stadia upgraded/updated/newly built at the same time as seeing significant investment on the pitch. Thats what I would like to have seen with us....maybe a decent increase in wage budget, one or two marquee signings, running alongside improvements off the pitch.

It looks like we will have to wait and hope that a) the developement is finished, b) it makes money and c) that money is used to improve the budgets both wage and transfer.

[The 12th Marquis of Sixfields]

There are plenty of clubs who have boxes, conferencing facilities et al, but don't turn a profit for one reason or another! Look down the road at what happened to Rushden! Their boxes, facilites and Diamond Centre didn't do them much good did it?

another egotist

[bungle]

Two very sensible, well-argued posts there - a vast improvement on some of the knuckle draggers on here.


I'd like to see these examples (Swansea et al on one side, Wycombe and Rushden on the other) brought up with DC at the next forum. I'd also like to see him outline the projected profit from the hotel, conference centre and executive boxes over the next three years. What is needed both on here and at the forum, is a constructive debate which looks at the club's decision making objectively and in detail and avoids knee jerk reactions.

[sbedscobb]

Two very sensible, well-argued posts there - a vast improvement on some of the knuckle draggers on here.


I'd like to see these examples (Swansea et al on one side, Wycombe and Rushden on the other) brought up with DC at the next forum. I'd also like to see him outline the projected profit from the hotel, conference centre and executive boxes over the next three years. What is needed both on here and at the forum, is a constructive debate which looks at the club's decision making objectively and in detail and avoids knee jerk reactions.

We are not Darlo, Diamonds or even Wycombe so you cant compare us to those.

The reason we haven't got the funds to complete a ground with enough capacity, minimum 10,000 needed to allow the club to grow and compete for a championship place, was the egotistical folly of building the unneeded Directors cabins on stilts ffs.

Couldn't they just occupy one of the east boxes?? Not grand enough?

You cant be seriously suggesting that we start  building after  a few successful seasons, in which fans are being turned away, who wanted to watch a winning team because we only have 6500 seats to sell?

I would like to know if Cardoza would be happier if the club doesn't reach the championship and just be happy with existing as a forth tier club? Because that's what its starting to look like!

[guest168]

do we really expect DC to outline the financial profits of the hotel, conference centre etc?  I for one expect not one penny of any of that profit to go back into any tangible improvement in the club other than self sustainability.

My argument with DC was always around better facilities for staff, players and fans (plus corporate structures etc). His reason for non-action was the pending development on all counts !!!!! 

Now it is taking place (sort of) we only really see an improvement for the Directors !! oh and some new shiny plastic seats for the fans :-)
The changing rooms look as basic as can be, as does the new ticket office. We have heard nothing / very little about fans bar, club shop, ticket office, catering etc etc

At least we have appointed a marketing manager so again time will tell but I really don't expect him to stay too long.

[guest168]

well is it time that someone actually did ?

Have a prepared list of documented q & a's  and hold him to account.

I suppose it would need at least 3 or 4 of us otherwise they would be jeered by the happy clappers.

I know for a fact that many members of the Trust are very unhappy with the state of the club but are too frightened to speak out !

[guest1269]

well is it time that someone actually did ?

Have a prepared list of documented q & a's  and hold him to account.

I suppose it would need at least 3 or 4 of us otherwise they would be jeered by the happy clappers.

I know for a fact that many members of the Trust are very unhappy with the state of the club but are too frightened to speak out !

"Hold him to account" - what a quaint but naive term.

A somewhat interesting slip of the pen saying a "prepared" list of questions and answers - which really means the whole session is pointless since you have made up your mind on all points already.

Trust members afraid to speak out - now that one really had me choking on my soup.......

[GrangeParkCobbler]

http://www.ntfc.co.uk/news/article/sixfields-redevelopment-1509905.aspx

Wasn't this the latest Q&A session with the Trust, just 3 short months ago!! So much has changed, so much does not ring true!

"I'm hopeful we will get overall capacity to 9000"....WRONG
"We will have new pictures to show everybody in a couple of weeks once we have frozen the design, but it will not look much different to the previous picture"...WRONG
"It (The East Stand) will be nearly as large as the West Stand."......WRONG
"The stand will be rebuilt with new seats before the season starts, if certain work is not finished it will not stop any spectator from watching the match."....WRONG
" increasing size of ticket office"....WRONG
"The hotel and Conference Centre will be in the same planning application as the residential and retail scheme, which will be going in in around 3 weeks. This will hopefully take around 13 weeks to get approval."....HAS THIS HAPPENED YET?

See, this is the problem now.....what is the point of a Q&A with the Chairman when what he says does not turn out to be correct? As said in the other post we might as well all shut up because a)nothing we say will make any difference, and b)a lot of what we are told turns out to be incorrect.

[guest49]

Can we go and play in a nice stadium (something like the one about half a mile away), until Sixfield's resembles one?

[DrillingCobbler]

Fantastic post. Illustrates completely the futility of attending a forum where nothing that is said holds any credibility.

I remember asking Sammo at one, about Alistair Slow. He said something along the lines of the lads got potential but he's not ready for the first team just yet.

So yeah...I agree with your point!   

[guest1269]

I remember asking Sammo at one, about Alistair Slow. He said something along the lines of the lads got potential but he's not ready for the first team just yet.

So yeah...I agree with your point!   

Whilst I'm relatively supportive of the administration (mainly because I don't see too many alternatives) on the value of open forums I completely agree (valueless) - some fans seem to think someone speaking into a microphone automatically means they are talking with authority and accuracy - I think not!