The Hotel End

The Hotel End => Cobblers Corner => Topic started by: Jim Hall Fixit on April 27, 2021, 14:57:39 pm



Title: Hes one of own ...
Post by: Jim Hall Fixit on April 27, 2021, 14:57:39 pm
https://www.northamptonchron.co.uk/sport/football/mcwilliams-will-be-with-us-next-season-as-brady-hails-midfielders-fitness-and-form-3215927

Fabulous news about Shaun.
Player of the year for me (although not a lot of competition!) so JB saying hes gonna be here next year is the best Cobbs news Ive heard for some time.
Impressive stat about his tackling percentage as well - considering were 21st in the league!


Title: Re: Hes one of own ...
Post by: Manwork04 on April 27, 2021, 14:59:20 pm
https://www.northamptonchron.co.uk/sport/football/mcwilliams-will-be-with-us-next-season-as-brady-hails-midfielders-fitness-and-form-3215927

Fabulous news about Shaun.
Player of the year for me (although not a lot of competition!) so JB saying hes gonna be here next year is the best Cobbs news Ive heard for some time.
Impressive stat about his tackling percentage as well - considering were 21st in the league!
Good news indeed.


Title: Re: Hes one of own ...
Post by: Winslow Lee on April 27, 2021, 15:09:33 pm
Very happy with this, might have been a chance to see the club be proactive and maybe offer him something longer than just the option year though.


Title: Re: Hes one of own ...
Post by: Terryfenwickatemyhamster on April 27, 2021, 15:12:17 pm
Great news.


Title: Re: Hes one of own ...
Post by: Coolcat on April 27, 2021, 15:30:46 pm
A ray of sunshine, as the dark clouds descend!


Title: Re: He’s one of own ...
Post by: Deepcut Cobbler on April 27, 2021, 15:44:42 pm
https://www.northamptonchron.co.uk/sport/football/mcwilliams-will-be-with-us-next-season-as-brady-hails-midfielders-fitness-and-form-3215927

Fabulous news about Shaun.
Player of the year for me (although not a lot of competition!) so JB saying he’s gonna be here next year is the best Cobbs news I’ve heard for some time.
Impressive stat about his tackling percentage as well - considering we’re 21st in the league!

Isn't that because his second touch is normally a tackle?  :P 8)


Title: Re: Hes one of own ...
Post by: CJ on April 27, 2021, 16:47:03 pm
Isn't that because his second touch is normally a tackle?  :P 8)
Not having the ball a lot as a team must also help with tackling stats!


Title: Re: Hes one of own ...
Post by: OCoole on April 27, 2021, 18:40:30 pm
Brilliant news! Shaun is one of our most important players - perhaps only behind Lloyd Jones who has been a level above the rest since Brady started in my opinion.

Lets hope that we have similar options in the contracts for Lloyd and Ryan Watson. Id also hope that we are trying to tie Chuck to a professional deal. His talent merits a solid first team salary and that coupled with regular starting game time next season could secure his future here


Title: Re: Hes one of own ...
Post by: bungle on April 27, 2021, 20:59:18 pm
Brilliant news! Shaun is one of our most important players - perhaps only behind Lloyd Jones who has been a level above the rest since Brady started in my opinion.

This. L Jones is the next priority IMO. The defensive unit of Horsfall and Jones with McWilliams in front of them gives us an excellent spine.



Title: Re: Hes one of own ...
Post by: Manwork04 on April 27, 2021, 23:37:02 pm
This. L Jones is the next priority IMO. The defensive unit of Horsfall and Jones with McWilliams in front of them gives us an excellent spine.


100% agree, 2 year deal, we could even make a few quid, wont happen though he will demand too higher wages.


Title: Re: Hes one of own ...
Post by: Melbourne Cobbler on April 28, 2021, 00:05:39 am
This. L Jones is the next priority IMO. The defensive unit of Horsfall and Jones with McWilliams in front of them gives us an excellent spine.


Sick of writing +1 against your posts.


Title: Re: Hes one of own ...
Post by: Boot and shoe on April 28, 2021, 07:16:54 am
as i have said previously , i cant see Lloyd Jones or Watson staying .
Both will stay in league 1 and we missed the boat securing LJ IMO .


Title: Re: Hes one of own ...
Post by: Ragdoll Cobbler on April 28, 2021, 08:17:40 am
Why do we hardly ever have options in the clubs favour, L Jones a prime example...

He was without a club, we give him a short term deal, surely if he does well we should have made sure we get first dibs...Peterborough do it successfully all the bloomin time!

Still, least we've got BAS & Smith for another season  ::)


Title: Re: Hes one of own ...
Post by: woody84 on April 28, 2021, 08:51:14 am
Why do we hardly ever have options in the clubs favour, L Jones a prime example...

He was without a club, we give him a short term deal, surely if he does well we should have made sure we get first dibs...Peterborough do it successfully all the bloomin time!

Still, least we've got BAS & Smith for another season  ::)
Do you know we havent?
I 'm clearly in a cynical mood this morning... I hope this is an honest statement but could also be the club warning interested clubs he wont be cheap and pushing the price up.


Title: Re: Hes one of own ...
Post by: Winslow Lee on April 28, 2021, 10:03:10 am
I guess its down to players whether they allow clubs to put contract extensions in the clubs favour. Its clearly not good for the player, if theyre playing well and have a chance to get a better deal elsewhere then the club extends the deal if they are playing poorly they get released. Clubs who pay top dollar in fees and wages like Manchester United and by league 1 standards Peterborough I guess have more bargaining power.


Title: Re: Hes one of own ...
Post by: OCoole on April 28, 2021, 15:44:59 pm
Do you know we havent?
I 'm clearly in a cynical mood this morning... I hope this is an honest statement but could also be the club warning interested clubs he wont be cheap and pushing the price up.


Clubs can approach players over 24 and over (could be 25, don't hold me to that) as soon as they enter the final month of their current contract. If they agree a new contract with them, the player will move on at the end of their current deal, and no fee is required to be paid.

Put simply, if we don't have an extension clause and bigger clubs come calling, it will be our own fault for not extending his deal before the final month of his deal. His agent, who the clubs will approach him through, certainly won't hold the clubs bluff about whether or not there is a clause - they will tell the club he is free to move, if that is the case.

For once it would be nice for the club to be proactive in protecting its assets. In Lloyd Jones, Horsfall, McWilliams, Watson, and arguably a couple of others, we have the basis of a really good League Two side in my opinion. I really hope that as soon as our fate for this season is sealed, the manager outcome (contract signed, done) is made within one week, no more! Then get L. Jones, McWilliams and Watson all signed up. Yes they might want a sizeable pay increase but they have earned it and proved that they are capable of thriving in League One and we could certainly rely of them to perform strongly next year. If KT lets things drag on and important players go, well can anyone say he isn't to blame if we start next season poorly? And how many of recent years have we started well? I'd say it's more frequent that we start badly?


Title: Re: He’s one of own ...
Post by: Deepcut Cobbler on April 28, 2021, 16:37:31 pm

Clubs can approach players over 24 and over (could be 25, don't hold me to that) as soon as they enter the final month of their current contract. If they agree a new contract with them, the player will move on at the end of their current deal, and no fee is required to be paid.

Put simply, if we don't have an extension clause and bigger clubs come calling, it will be our own fault for not extending his deal before the final month of his deal. His agent, who the clubs will approach him through, certainly won't hold the clubs bluff about whether or not there is a clause - they will tell the club he is free to move, if that is the case.

For once it would be nice for the club to be proactive in protecting its assets. In Lloyd Jones, Horsfall, McWilliams, Watson, and arguably a couple of others, we have the basis of a really good League Two side in my opinion. I really hope that as soon as our fate for this season is sealed, the manager outcome (contract signed, done) is made within one week, no more! Then get L. Jones, McWilliams and Watson all signed up. Yes they might want a sizeable pay increase but they have earned it and proved that they are capable of thriving in League One and we could certainly rely of them to perform strongly next year. If KT lets things drag on and important players go, well can anyone say he isn't to blame if we start next season poorly? And how many of recent years have we started well? I'd say it's more frequent that we start badly?

Agreed in principle, but it all depends on those players agreeing to sign the contract extension.
The player has the power, not the club.


Title: Re: Hes one of own ...
Post by: Winslow Lee on April 28, 2021, 16:54:18 pm
Agreed in principle, but it all depends on those players agreeing to sign the contract extension.
The player has the power, not the club.

It would be nice though for the club with players like L Jones & Watson who have been some of our better players to come out and say because of the level of performance we have offered them contract extensions now. If they dont sign they dont sign but just show you are being proactive. The uncertainty about the manager probably puts a spanner in it this time but our contract extensions always seem a bit shambolic and left to the very last minute.


Title: Re: Hes one of own ...
Post by: OCoole on April 28, 2021, 17:06:21 pm
It would be nice though for the club with players like L Jones & Watson who have been some of our better players to come out and say because of the level of performance we have offered them contract extensions now. If they dont sign they dont sign but just show you are being proactive. The uncertainty about the manager probably puts a spanner in it this time but our contract extensions always seem a bit shambolic and left to the very last minute.

Exactly. Both seem to be enjoying their football under Brady. And at the end of the day money talks - if we offer them 30-40% increases on what they currently earn, I can't see them turning it down.

Smaller, high quality squads are the answer. Depth can come from the youth team and loans!


Title: Re: Hes one of own ...
Post by: threeinabed on April 28, 2021, 17:15:18 pm
Exactly. Both seem to be enjoying their football under Brady. And at the end of the day money talks - if we offer them 30-40% increases on what they currently earn, I can't see them turning it down.

Smaller, high quality squads are the answer. Depth can come from the youth team and loans!

not sure any player this year has earned themselves a pay increase at all - let alone one as ridiculous as suggested here.

madness.


Title: Re: He’s one of own ...
Post by: Deepcut Cobbler on April 28, 2021, 17:37:36 pm
Exactly. Both seem to be enjoying their football under Brady. And at the end of the day money talks - if we offer them 30-40% increases on what they currently earn, I can't see them turning it down.

Smaller, high quality squads are the answer. Depth can come from the youth team and loans!

Does that work on Football Manager?  30-40% increase to play in a lower division?
If they get an offer from a League One or higher club, you won't see them for dust.
Only McWilliams has the home town loyalty but I would guess that he'd prefer to be playing higher, if the opportunity rises, rather than going back to the bottom rung, irrespective of the money offered.  He is good enough to not be playing in the basement again.


Title: Re: Hes one of own ...
Post by: CobblerForever on April 28, 2021, 17:52:55 pm
Does that work on Football Manager?  30-40% increase to play in a lower division?
If they get an offer from a League One or higher club, you won't see them for dust.
Only McWilliams has the home town loyalty but I would guess that he'd prefer to be playing higher, if the opportunity rises, rather than going back to the bottom rung, irrespective of the money offered.  He is good enough to not be playing in the basement again.

Having worked with agents operating in the sporting arena and noticing how they approach these things I would imagine he/she would be encouraging a certain course of action in their mutual interest.


Title: Re: Hes one of own ...
Post by: OCoole on April 28, 2021, 18:13:31 pm
not sure any player this year has earned themselves a pay increase at all - let alone one as ridiculous as suggested here.

madness.



Since the start of January only 3 sides in League One have conceded less goals than Northampton have. Lloyd Jones and Horsfall have played virtually every one of those games. Both have impressed, but Jones has been particularly impressive. It's nave to think that top end League One clubs won't be interested. Why is it ridiculous to try to keep hold of your best players, and why is it ridiculous to suggest that the player who has probably been our player of the season deserves a pay increase? I think you are being clouded by emotions about our probable relegation.


Title: Re: Hes one of own ...
Post by: OCoole on April 28, 2021, 18:21:16 pm
Does that work on Football Manager?  30-40% increase to play in a lower division?
If they get an offer from a League One or higher club, you won't see them for dust.
Only McWilliams has the home town loyalty but I would guess that he'd prefer to be playing higher, if the opportunity rises, rather than going back to the bottom rung, irrespective of the money offered.  He is good enough to not be playing in the basement again.

It's an arbitrary figure for the sake of my point - RE the football manager video game I wouldn't know, you'll have to let me know!

Of course L. Jones, McWilliams and Watson are likely to receive attention from League One and absolutely they are good enough to stay in the division. My point is we should try to tie them down before it gets to the stage (1 month remaining of contract) where they can discuss contract terms elsewhere. If a sizeable pay increase for our 3 best players keeps them here but means we can't afford 1 or 2 new high-earners, wouldn't you say that is still a favourable outcome?


Title: Re: He’s one of own ...
Post by: Deepcut Cobbler on April 28, 2021, 18:43:42 pm
It's an arbitrary figure for the sake of my point - RE the football manager video game I wouldn't know, you'll have to let me know!

Of course L. Jones, McWilliams and Watson are likely to receive attention from League One and absolutely they are good enough to stay in the division. My point is we should try to tie them down before it gets to the stage (1 month remaining of contract) where they can discuss contract terms elsewhere. If a sizeable pay increase for our 3 best players keeps them here but means we can't afford 1 or 2 new high-earners, wouldn't you say that is still a favourable outcome?

Agreed and I've never 'played it' either ;)
Agree with your proposal but there are so many variables and choices that would/could take it completely from the clubs hands. We can offer whatever we want, but we cannot guarantee to be successful.
The Oliver transfer last season is a case in point, where he was indicating that he was intending to stay until a club assessed to be a better option in League One (rightly) offered him their opportunity up against the transfer deadline.  The blame for that still being attached to KT/KC was unfair and unwarranted. I'm led to believe, that they offered him a salary and contract commensurate with only scoring four goals in thirty appearances all season!  The fact that he has gone on to score many at his new club wasn't a prediction we would have made.
As I said before, in situations like that, the power remains with the player.


Title: Re: Hes one of own ...
Post by: OCoole on April 28, 2021, 19:05:44 pm
Agreed and I've never 'played it' either ;)
Agree with your proposal but there are so many variables and choices that would/could take it completely from the clubs hands. We can offer whatever we want, but we cannot guarantee to be successful.
The Oliver transfer last season is a case in point, where he was indicating that he was intending to stay until a club assessed to be a better option in League One (rightly) offered him their opportunity up against the transfer deadline.  The blame for that still being attached to KT/KC was unfair and unwarranted. I'm led to believe, that they offered him a salary and contract commensurate with only scoring four goals in thirty appearances all season!  The fact that he has gone on to score many at his new club wasn't a prediction we would have made.
As I said before, in situations like that, the power remains with the player.

I'd argue that if the the salary was commensurate as you say to the 4 goals scored then KC certainly misjudged how important Oliver was to the way his side played. Effective target men forwards become rarer and rarer and most fans would have told him that Harry Smith had very little chance of replicating Oliver's role!

I think that when offering new deals, other than the player's importance to the team, it's important to consider the player's ceiling. I think McWilliams and L Jones are both well capable of playing in the Championship in the not too distant future, with Jones the closer of the two to that standard. I think it's a big mistake if the club doesn't offer them, and Watson, considerably improved terms to entice them to commit to a longer term deal - at least 2 years, but 3 if possible. Then when interest comes in we are in a position to profit a la Charlie Goode. Effectively what I'm trying to say is we take away the power from the player by offering them contracts they can't reasonably refuse before their heads can be turned!  ;D


Title: Re: Hes one of own ...
Post by: west stand oap on April 28, 2021, 20:10:06 pm
If the 3 said players were offered substantial increases to stay and play in division 2 how many would stay if offered similar terms from a division 1 club?. I don't see Watson going for a large future transfer fee as he is now 27.
Should we get relegated I doubt that next seasons budget will be higher than this seasons and rightly we would be offering new signings division 2 levels of pay. I doubt that any increases to keep existing players are likely to be substantial and if they were it would limit the managers remaining budget for new signings. Then certain posters would be complaining about those incoming.
Posters have also recently said we should be offering Alex Jones terms for next season but since his miss at Gillingham it has not been mentioned. He should also have been in every starting 11 for the past several games but some who have put forward which strikers should start against Blackpool do not pick him. How fickle we are and what a difference 1 miss can make.


Title: Re: Hes one of own ...
Post by: El Carnicero on April 28, 2021, 20:17:53 pm
Slight deviation, but apt for the subject line. One young lad could be moving on and it's not Chuk.

https://www.sunderlandecho.com/sport/football/sunderland-afc/sunderland-linked-with-first-team-star-of-the-future-as-league-one-rivals-could-suffer-major-transfer-blow-3215062 (https://www.sunderlandecho.com/sport/football/sunderland-afc/sunderland-linked-with-first-team-star-of-the-future-as-league-one-rivals-could-suffer-major-transfer-blow-3215062)


Title: Re: Hes one of own ...
Post by: OCoole on April 28, 2021, 22:47:54 pm
If the 3 said players were offered substantial increases to stay and play in division 2 how many would stay if offered similar terms from a division 1 club?. I don't see Watson going for a large future transfer fee as he is now 27.
Should we get relegated I doubt that next seasons budget will be higher than this seasons and rightly we would be offering new signings division 2 levels of pay. I doubt that any increases to keep existing players are likely to be substantial and if they were it would limit the managers remaining budget for new signings. Then certain posters would be complaining about those incoming.
Posters have also recently said we should be offering Alex Jones terms for next season but since his miss at Gillingham it has not been mentioned. He should also have been in every starting 11 for the past several games but some who have put forward which strikers should start against Blackpool do not pick him. How fickle we are and what a difference 1 miss can make.


RE your first point, I think Ive said it 3 times already that the point of offering terms now is to avoid being gazumped by League One sides, who can only offer terms starting one month before the players current contract expires. The pragmatic thing to do is to offer new terms now and set a deadline before that point! I also didnt mention Watson going for a fee (but why not if he has another strong season?), but why should that matter if he has a successful few years with us?

From your second paragraph I assume that your preference is for a vastly different squad? Or playing devils advocate for the sake of it?


Title: Re: Hes one of own ...
Post by: Battery Man on April 29, 2021, 08:33:00 am
I'd argue that if the the salary was commensurate as you say to the 4 goals scored then KC certainly misjudged how important Oliver was to the way his side played. Effective target men forwards become rarer and rarer and most fans would have told him that Harry Smith had very little chance of replicating Oliver's role!

I think that when offering new deals, other than the player's importance to the team, it's important to consider the player's ceiling. I think McWilliams and L Jones are both well capable of playing in the Championship in the not too distant future, with Jones the closer of the two to that standard. I think it's a big mistake if the club doesn't offer them, and Watson, considerably improved terms to entice them to commit to a longer term deal - at least 2 years, but 3 if possible. Then when interest comes in we are in a position to profit a la Charlie Goode. Effectively what I'm trying to say is we take away the power from the player by offering them contracts they can't reasonably refuse before their heads can be turned!  ;D

This is one of the main things we as a club need to get much better at, identifying the players who can play at a higher level and getting them under a long term contract, so if and when they do leave we can demand a decent fee for them.


Title: Re: Hes one of own ...
Post by: DrillingCobbler on April 29, 2021, 13:13:44 pm
I *suspect* Jones is being paid peanuts. Without a club entirely, then trained with us, then signed...so anything we offer will have to be a substantial increase on whatever he's on at the minute.

Mcwilliams, well to keep him motivated, probably warrants a 2 or 3 year deal on considerably more cash than he's on at the minute.

Jones (striker), again will be on peanuts (most likely), worth a punt in my mind. Reckon he could do well next season. I one year contract shouldn't cost the club too much, he's not set the world alight but he's coming back from a long term injury, has been without a club, and you've got to go back a few years since he last went on a goal scoring run (at Port Vale). He's got it in him, case of whether or not we and he gets lucky!

As for Oliver. I really wanted him to stay but saw him as a 'back up' striker. Little did I know we'd not sign an 'upgrade' as such, so Smith got promoted in his place. I doubt a single one of us foresaw Oliver's form this season, which has been truly exceptional. Given his age, career record etc. Just goes to show. When we signed him, Morecambe fans all said he was useless, we had little hope that he would play such a pivotal part in our promotion. Got to give big fat Steve a lot of credit for seeing what none of us lot saw, including obviously our own clubs management team at the time.

Be great to see the bulk of our first choice team (not the back ups to it) stay here next season, but a lot will come down to budget etc. Id risk going with Jones and the Horse as our only two dedicated centrebacks (Harriman as back up) and get Max Dyche involved. There's two savings....Bolger and Sheehan...for starters.

Midfield - Watson, McWilliams, Sowerby. Id sign Bryn Morris as well. Good to go.

Forwards - Hoskins, Jones, Smith, Rose, Chuck. Enough there to get plenty of goals in league2, especially if Chuck and Jones come good. BAS - Loan out for 3 months.

Bring in a right back (no chance of keeping Kioso), and two decent wide players (get shot of Marshall - too old , Warburton, Roberts, Korboa, Miller too injury prone.

Id keep Mitchell but release Arnold and bring in a very good keeper. Mitchell would become back up.

Thats around 18-20 players tops. Top it up with our best youth prospects. See how it goes...


Title: Re: Hes one of own ...
Post by: Carton Lid on April 29, 2021, 14:28:50 pm
I *suspect* Jones is being paid peanuts. Without a club entirely, then trained with us, then signed...so anything we offer will have to be a substantial increase on whatever he's on at the minute.

Mcwilliams, well to keep him motivated, probably warrants a 2 or 3 year deal on considerably more cash than he's on at the minute.

Jones (striker), again will be on peanuts (most likely), worth a punt in my mind. Reckon he could do well next season. I one year contract shouldn't cost the club too much, he's not set the world alight but he's coming back from a long term injury, has been without a club, and you've got to go back a few years since he last went on a goal scoring run (at Port Vale). He's got it in him, case of whether or not we and he gets lucky!

As for Oliver. I really wanted him to stay but saw him as a 'back up' striker. Little did I know we'd not sign an 'upgrade' as such, so Smith got promoted in his place. I doubt a single one of us foresaw Oliver's form this season, which has been truly exceptional. Given his age, career record etc. Just goes to show. When we signed him, Morecambe fans all said he was useless, we had little hope that he would play such a pivotal part in our promotion. Got to give big fat Steve a lot of credit for seeing what none of us lot saw, including obviously our own clubs management team at the time.

Be great to see the bulk of our first choice team (not the back ups to it) stay here next season, but a lot will come down to budget etc. Id risk going with Jones and the Horse as our only two dedicated centrebacks (Harriman as back up) and get Max Dyche involved. There's two savings....Bolger and Sheehan...for starters.

Midfield - Watson, McWilliams, Sowerby. Id sign Bryn Morris as well. Good to go.

Forwards - Hoskins, Jones, Smith, Rose, Chuck. Enough there to get plenty of goals in league2, especially if Chuck and Jones come good. BAS - Loan out for 3 months.

Bring in a right back (no chance of keeping Kioso), and two decent wide players (get shot of Marshall - too old , Warburton, Roberts, Korboa, Miller too injury prone.

Id keep Mitchell but release Arnold and bring in a very good keeper. Mitchell would become back up.

Thats around 18-20 players tops. Top it up with our best youth prospects. See how it goes...
Drilling, I read through that and agreed until I came to the last but one line. Mitchell is, in my opinion, the worse regular goalkeeper we've had in my 60 years of watching the Cobblers, we've had worse but they've not been regulars, playing only odd games. The problem with him as "back up" is that he might have to play sometime !
       I've seen better than him in the UCL, he doesn't stop much, his positioning is terrible and he manages to keep on average 1 out of 4 kicks in play. The points he has cost us this year will relegate us, massive blunders against Burton and Swindon to name but two.


Title: Re: Hes one of own ...
Post by: Shoemender on April 29, 2021, 14:50:57 pm
Drilling, I read through that and agreed until I came to the last but one line. Mitchell is, in my opinion, the worse regular goalkeeper we've had in my 60 years of watching the Cobblers, we've had worse but they've not been regulars, playing only odd games. The problem with him as "back up" is that he might have to play sometime !
       I've seen better than him in the UCL, he doesn't stop much, his positioning is terrible and he manages to keep on average 1 out of 4 kicks in play. The points he has cost us this year will relegate us, massive blunders against Burton and Swindon to name but two.

Yes, but if the strikers had done what they were meant to, his blunders wouldn't have cost us quite so dearly.


Title: Re: Hes one of own ...
Post by: OCoole on April 29, 2021, 15:12:05 pm
Yes, but if the strikers had done what they were meant to, his blunders wouldn't have cost us quite so dearly.

Other than Alex Jones miss against Gills last week which absolute sitters have strikers missed? Compare that to the Mitchell clangers against Burton, Swindon and other sides?


Title: Re: Hes one of own ...
Post by: woody84 on April 29, 2021, 15:34:55 pm
Always hard to compare as you might be correct that they havent missed many easy opportunities, but how many times have they not been where they should, or ran the wrong channel, or had a heavy touch etc.
With a keeper if you get it wrong you tend to get punished.
I do think that Mitchell is at best a back up but think in L2 he would provide sufficient cover for a new 1st choice.


Title: Re: Hes one of own ...
Post by: OCoole on April 29, 2021, 15:44:03 pm
Always hard to compare as you might be correct that they havent missed many easy opportunities, but how many times have they not been where they should, or ran the wrong channel, or had a heavy touch etc.
With a keeper if you get it wrong you tend to get punished.
I do think that Mitchell is at best a back up but think in L2 he would provide sufficient cover for a new 1st choice.

A fair point well made. Im not sure Mitchell is good enough to be a football league goalkeeper and I think there are probably lots of better options even as backup - also would he accept signing as backup in L2 after being first choice in L1?

We do have an awful lot of players in this squad that dont look capable of playing at L1 level. For me this reinforces the necessity of keeping the talented players that we do have


Title: Re: Hes one of own ...
Post by: Shoemender on April 29, 2021, 20:26:04 pm
Other than Alex Jones miss against Gills last week which absolute sitters have strikers missed? Compare that to the Mitchell clangers against Burton, Swindon and other sides?

Well, Edmonson has missed at least 2, 1 on 1s. Hoskins has chosen to shoot on numerous occasions when a pass to someone in
a much better position would have been a much better option. Watson's sitter at Portsmouth, I know he's not a striker, but still a bad miss all the same, several shots which were no more than back passes, several headers where it was easier to score, Rose completely missing the ball in front of an open goal a couple of weeks ago and several other easyish chances, numerous Harry Smith misses and BAS falling over whenever the ball goes anywhere near him. I'm sure there's more. Also, how many goals have our so called strikers scored between them? About 12 maybe and people think it's all down to the keeper!! Get a grip.


Title: Re: Hes one of own ...
Post by: Boot and shoe on April 29, 2021, 20:55:19 pm
I *suspect* Jones is being paid peanuts. Without a club entirely, then trained with us, then signed...so anything we offer will have to be a substantial increase on whatever he's on at the minute.

Mcwilliams, well to keep him motivated, probably warrants a 2 or 3 year deal on considerably more cash than he's on at the minute.

Jones (striker), again will be on peanuts (most likely), worth a punt in my mind. Reckon he could do well next season. I one year contract shouldn't cost the club too much, he's not set the world alight but he's coming back from a long term injury, has been without a club, and you've got to go back a few years since he last went on a goal scoring run (at Port Vale). He's got it in him, case of whether or not we and he gets lucky!

As for Oliver. I really wanted him to stay but saw him as a 'back up' striker. Little did I know we'd not sign an 'upgrade' as such, so Smith got promoted in his place. I doubt a single one of us foresaw Oliver's form this season, which has been truly exceptional. Given his age, career record etc. Just goes to show. When we signed him, Morecambe fans all said he was useless, we had little hope that he would play such a pivotal part in our promotion. Got to give big fat Steve a lot of credit for seeing what none of us lot saw, including obviously our own clubs management team at the time.

Be great to see the bulk of our first choice team (not the back ups to it) stay here next season, but a lot will come down to budget etc. Id risk going with Jones and the Horse as our only two dedicated centrebacks (Harriman as back up) and get Max Dyche involved. There's two savings....Bolger and Sheehan...for starters.

Midfield - Watson, McWilliams, Sowerby. Id sign Bryn Morris as well. Good to go.

Forwards - Hoskins, Jones, Smith, Rose, Chuck. Enough there to get plenty of goals in league2, especially if Chuck and Jones come good. BAS - Loan out for 3 months.

Bring in a right back (no chance of keeping Kioso), and two decent wide players (get shot of Marshall - too old , Warburton, Roberts, Korboa, Miller too injury prone.

Id keep Mitchell but release Arnold and bring in a very good keeper. Mitchell would become back up.

Thats around 18-20 players tops. Top it up with our best youth prospects. See how it goes...
Mitchell will be released by Derby and will not sign for anyone because of the wages he gets from his parent club . He certainly wont come here because he is nowhere near good enough .
Lloyd jones and Watson will be offered improved terms elsewhere .
Hoskins , Mcwilliams and Horsfall will be the only decent players to stay .
Jones is injury prone but otherwise he is ok .
Dyche is far too slow and not the answer.
Chuck needs loads of work and i am hopeful about Pollock .
Other than that - wipe the slate clean


Title: Re: Hes one of own ...
Post by: OCoole on April 29, 2021, 21:58:26 pm
Well, Edmonson has missed at least 2, 1 on 1s. Hoskins has chosen to shoot on numerous occasions when a pass to someone in
a much better position would have been a much better option. Watson's sitter at Portsmouth, I know he's not a striker, but still a bad miss all the same, several shots which were no more than back passes, several headers where it was easier to score, Rose completely missing the ball in front of an open goal a couple of weeks ago and several other easyish chances, numerous Harry Smith misses and BAS falling over whenever the ball goes anywhere near him. I'm sure there's more. Also, how many goals have our so called strikers scored between them? About 12 maybe and people think it's all down to the keeper!! Get a grip.

Fair enough for the examples given. Maintain that Mitchell has cost us far too many points (as well as the misfiring forwards you point to) and certainly shouldnt be kept after his loan comes to an end. Not sure get a grip is needed either?


Title: Re: Hes one of own ...
Post by: Shoemender on April 29, 2021, 22:34:41 pm
Fair enough for the examples given. Maintain that Mitchell has cost us far too many points (as well as the misfiring forwards you point to) and certainly shouldnt be kept after his loan comes to an end. Not sure get a grip is needed either?

I wasn't advocating keeping him, just pointing out that if we'd have scored a few more, as we should have, his errors wouln't have  been nearly quite so costly. He's also kept us in a few games too.


Title: Re: Hes one of own ...
Post by: Melbourne Cobbler on April 29, 2021, 22:44:14 pm
In the event we had signed Oliver on big money and he had scored 4 goals again this season with us in the relegation zone, the board would be getting crucified. The managerial/chairman roles are an absolute piece of pi55 after the event. If my decisions were made on that basis Id be buying the club and financing our exploits into the champions league.


Title: Re: Hes one of own ...
Post by: Carton Lid on April 29, 2021, 23:42:39 pm
I wasn't advocating keeping him, just pointing out that if we'd have scored a few more, as we should have, his errors wouln't have  been nearly quite so costly. He's also kept us in a few games too.
I really can't remember Mitchell making a save that I thought "Wow that was good", I will confess that I haven't watched all the away matches but all I can remember are routine saves or like against Ipswich where the guy hit it straight at him. I would be interested on which games you think "he's kept us in it"


Title: Re: Hes one of own ...
Post by: Melbourne Cobbler on April 30, 2021, 00:07:12 am
I reckon the general consensus of opinion on a forum such as this is a fairly good measure of a player? In the case of Mitchell that would make him below average IMO. That doesnt mean theyre incapable of turning in a decent performance or going on to become a decent player? The problem is can a club such as ours afford to facilitate the development of a player on that basis? I think if a player is consistently punching below their weight then you cant afford to play them, as in the case of Bolger. The real dilemma for us is we have 2 keepers both having the same argument levelled against them? Strikers with a below average scoring record and keepers turning in a below average performance, over the course of a season the writing is on the wall isnt it?


Title: Re: Hes one of own ...
Post by: Manwork04 on April 30, 2021, 07:50:22 am
I really can't remember Mitchell making a save that I thought "Wow that was good", I will confess that I haven't watched all the away matches but all I can remember are routine saves or like against Ipswich where the guy hit it straight at him. I would be interested on which games you think "he's kept us in it"
MK Dons was one game where he really cost us as was Swindon, horrible keeping.


Title: Re: Hes one of own ...
Post by: DrillingCobbler on April 30, 2021, 11:16:13 am
Ill go against the tidal wave of Mitchell slating, and back up my original post...

Firstly I've seen far far worse from a regular keeper. Turley, Dunn (for a long time), Sherwood (good God!), Archer (he actually went on to become a decent keeper afterwards) to name a few. Turley was far more instrumental in our relegation from this division that season, than Mitchell has been (assuming of course) this season. I accept its subjective, but for me Mitchell has some decent attributes, however he did make a series of 'high profile' errors during a run of games against our rivals at the bottom end of the division. That said, across the season, he's not made the amount of howlers that people seem to suggest he has. I've seen him blamed for practically every single goal we concede, many of which were clearly not his fault!!

Deepcut made this point on another thread a few days/weeks ago which I found interesting. I've also usually got Saturday Jeff on the TV every Saturday whilst I watch our game on the i-pad (bloody i player thing still doesn't link up!!), and the amount of shocking goalkeeping errors I see EVERY week (especially in the lower leagues) is very telling. Many far worse than the very worst of Mitchells errors (Swindon away for me being the pick).

Getting a good keeper is never easy but if you crack it you are half way there...interesting to read only yesterday that the Cheltenham keeper is attracting premiership interest, he's on loan from WBA. 19 years old, played every game for them I think this season. If they had had say Arnold in goal, an average league2 keeper imo, would they have just been promoted or would they be sitting in or around the playoffs? Adam Smith was brilliant for us when we won league2. We've also had excellent goalkeepers each time we've been promoted previously in recent times, and shall we say 'suspect ones' each time we've been relegated! This time round though Id be far more inclined to blame our likely relegation on our goal scoring problems, the stats speak for themselves on that matter.

Id be more than comfortable if Mitchell is retained on a sensible salary (he's still a good age and could improve as well), but its obvious that we need an upgrade if we are to be a force in league2 next season. (assuming we don't pull off a miracle but needing a keeper then would be even more vital!). Arnold is 31 now, has developed a long term injury problem, and is going to be on decent money so its a no brainer to say thanks and good luck to him.



Title: Re: Hes one of own ...
Post by: Winslow Lee on April 30, 2021, 11:55:25 am
I see Lee Nicholls is out of contract at MK, hes been replaced by Fisher (another former cobblers loanee) there, doubt hed want to stay as a number 2, still only 28 maybe worth a shout?.


Title: Re: He’s one of own ...
Post by: Deepcut Cobbler on April 30, 2021, 12:36:34 pm
In the event we had signed Oliver on big money and he had scored 4 goals again this season with us in the relegation zone, the board would be getting crucified. The managerial/chairman roles are an absolute piece of pi55 after the event. If my decisions were made on that basis I’d be buying the club and financing our exploits into the champions league.

Get the Grays Sports Almanac, it worked for Biff  ;)


Title: Re: Hes one of own ...
Post by: Manwork04 on April 30, 2021, 12:48:59 pm
I see Lee Nicholls is out of contract at MK, hes been replaced by Fisher (another former cobblers loanee) there, doubt hed want to stay as a number 2, still only 28 maybe worth a shout?.
Thats a very good shout, Lee Nichols is a very competent keeper.


Title: Re: Hes one of own ...
Post by: Dan on April 30, 2021, 13:03:50 pm
If the option is Lee Nichols, or Mitchell, I can be at Bletchley in 20 mins from and will gladly pick Lee up.


Title: Re: Hes one of own ...
Post by: Irchy cob on April 30, 2021, 13:25:58 pm
Without wishing to scapegoat anyone - and dont get me wrong several others have been just as bad - KCs recruitment of goalkeeper has been a major contributing factor to our impending relegation. Mitchell is one of the worst first choice keepers that I have seen in my 35 years of supporting the Cobblers and we need to steer well clear when looking at permanent goalkeepers in the Summer if we have any hopes on going back up.


Title: Re: Hes one of own ...
Post by: Steve Massive Massey on April 30, 2021, 13:50:15 pm
Ill go against the tidal wave of Mitchell slating, and back up my original post...

Firstly I've seen far far worse from a regular keeper. Sherwood (good God!)


Scunthorpe away. Good god?  Jesus fucking Christ more like!

Peter Gleasure today is better than Mitchell.



Title: Re: Hes one of own ...
Post by: Carton Lid on April 30, 2021, 16:31:16 pm
Thats a very good shout, Lee Nichols is a very competent keeper.
I'll go with this as well