The Hotel End

The Hotel End => Cobblers Corner => Topic started by: Manwork04 on May 01, 2021, 16:55:11 pm



Title: KELVIN THOMAS TIME TO GO.
Post by: Manwork04 on May 01, 2021, 16:55:11 pm
Youíve taken this club back to where you found it, again, itís time to go.
The state of the stadium says it all, utter dereliction of care.
You donít want to be here and the feelings mutual.


Title: Re: KELVIN THOMAS TIME TO GO.
Post by: Shoemender on May 01, 2021, 17:27:05 pm
Youíve taken this club back to where you found it, again, itís time to go.
The state of the stadium says it all, utter dereliction of care.
You donít want to be here and the feelings mutual.

Totally agree and I think a few others are starting to see the light.


Title: Re: KELVIN THOMAS TIME TO GO.
Post by: Athena on May 01, 2021, 17:39:10 pm
Whilst not having any argument with the first two posts here, what are the alternatives at the present time? I cannot currently see any. Please someone give me other options.


Title: Re: KELVIN THOMAS TIME TO GO.
Post by: Dan on May 01, 2021, 17:49:03 pm
I agree Manny. Time to go.


Title: Re: KELVIN THOMAS TIME TO GO.
Post by: Terryfenwickatemyhamster on May 01, 2021, 18:03:27 pm
BREAKING NEWS. NORTHAMPTON TOWN IN THE SHYTE

FANS CALL FOR CHAIRMANS HEAD FROM THEIR ARMCHAIRS, FOR DOING EXACTLY WHAT EVERY OTHER OWNER HAS DONE FOR THE LAST 50 ODD YEARS.

THE TRUST ARE DUE TO RELEASE A STATEMENT ABOUT A POTENTIAL STATEMENT



Title: Re: KELVIN THOMAS TIME TO GO.
Post by: Shoemender on May 01, 2021, 18:06:20 pm
Breaking news. Hamster is straight on it the minute KT is mentioned.


Title: Re: KELVIN THOMAS TIME TO GO.
Post by: CJ on May 01, 2021, 18:09:34 pm
Breaking news. Hamster is straight on it the minute KT is mentioned.
And as usual has a snide dig at the Trust because of course they have been the chief architects in all of this.
Embarrassing.


Title: Re: KELVIN THOMAS TIME TO GO.
Post by: GrangeParkCobbler on May 01, 2021, 18:13:29 pm
And as usual has a snide dig at the Trust because of course they have been the chief architects in all of this.
Embarrassing.

Very embarrassing...but no surprise!


Title: Re: KELVIN THOMAS TIME TO GO.
Post by: Terryfenwickatemyhamster on May 01, 2021, 18:13:44 pm
Breaking news. Hamster is straight on it the minute KT is mentioned.


Iím onto bottom feeding aliases like you, who offer nothing more than the same noise no matter what happens. Nothing will happen whilst platforms like this offer a voice to wasters, whoís extent of giving a fcuk extends no further than their keyboard.

I have banged on for quite few years now about the need to canvass and mobilise support, but what do I know, when it comes to coming up against genuine activist like yourself. 😀😀


Title: Re: KELVIN THOMAS TIME TO GO.
Post by: Terryfenwickatemyhamster on May 01, 2021, 18:20:16 pm
And as usual has a snide dig at the Trust because of course they have been the chief architects in all of this.
Embarrassing.

Itís not embarrassing at all. I am entitled to see their efforts as a shortcoming, as much as I do the owners.

We've had years of good intentions and **** footing around. Where as it got us. The Trust has spent years identifying the issues, very adequately. But to what effect? Do you honestly think the origins of the Trust would have put up with this?

ďSnide dig at the TrustĒ. Youíre taking the pi$$. It is totally the opposite. I want our Trust back. I want to see a spine against this shyte.



Title: Re: KELVIN THOMAS TIME TO GO.
Post by: Dr Feelgood on May 01, 2021, 18:25:23 pm
Thomas Out. Baldy In.
I agree with Manny. KT is a nice fella but we're going nowhere with him.


Title: Re: KELVIN THOMAS TIME TO GO.
Post by: Welly Cobb on May 01, 2021, 18:31:17 pm
Whilst not having any argument with the first two posts here, what are the alternatives at the present time? I cannot currently see any. Please someone give me other options.
This post has still not being answered. No alternative exists, so you can vent your frustration but it changes zilch, just like any other fan who vents about their owners.


Title: Re: KELVIN THOMAS TIME TO GO.
Post by: SadOldGit on May 01, 2021, 18:38:14 pm
BREAKING NEWS. NORTHAMPTON TOWN IN THE SHYTE

FANS CALL FOR CHAIRMANS HEAD FROM THEIR ARMCHAIRS, FOR DOING EXACTLY WHAT EVERY OTHER OWNER HAS DONE FOR THE LAST 50 ODD YEARS.

THE TRUST ARE DUE TO RELEASE A STATEMENT ABOUT A POTENTIAL STATEMENT




Pathetic. Is that all you've got?


Title: Re: KELVIN THOMAS TIME TO GO.
Post by: singcobb on May 01, 2021, 18:49:16 pm
BREAKING NEWS. NORTHAMPTON TOWN IN THE SHYTE

FANS CALL FOR CHAIRMANS HEAD FROM THEIR ARMCHAIRS, FOR DOING EXACTLY WHAT EVERY OTHER OWNER HAS DONE FOR THE LAST 50 ODD YEARS.

THE TRUST ARE DUE TO RELEASE A STATEMENT ABOUT A POTENTIAL STATEMENT



 ;D ;D ;D


Title: Re: KELVIN THOMAS TIME TO GO.
Post by: Terryfenwickatemyhamster on May 01, 2021, 18:50:26 pm
Pathetic. Is that all you've got?

Where as you offer so much more 😀😀 As idle as the rest of the moaners.. How ya getting on with ya repetitive strain injury.


Title: Re: KELVIN THOMAS TIME TO GO.
Post by: Shoemender on May 01, 2021, 18:54:25 pm


Iím onto bottom feeding aliases like you, who offer nothing more than the same noise no matter what happens. Nothing will happen whilst platforms like this offer a voice to wasters, whoís extent of giving a fcuk extends no further than their keyboard.

I have banged on for quite few years now about the need to canvass and mobilise support, but what do I know, when it comes to coming up against genuine activist like yourself. 😀😀


Well. I don't know what I'm supposed to do. I'm only giving my opinions on a football website. I actually do give a fŻck but so have plenty of supporters over the years and have tried their best to do something positive but what has come of it? The main problem is apathy and lack of motivation amongst our support and non support in our large town. How do we go about positively canvassing and mobilising support. It's been attempted and been partly successful a few times but never sustained. Some on here give opinions and suggestions but too many are too eager to immediately jump on them and poo poo them without coming up with a viable way forward apart from sarcasm and insults.
 Right, I'll put my money where my mouth is. How many regular supporters and season ticket holders do we have? Maybe around 4000. If all these supporters could pledge £1000 towards buying the club/ousting KT, then there's £4000,000 and that's just a start and I'm sure a few of our supporters could afford a lot more than this and once the interest was generated then maybe other outside interest might start taking notice and we could get some way towards getting genuine fan ownership. I know this will be ridiculed and poo pooed by certain elements and it may be pretty naive but without a Russian oligarch or Arab Sheik, what alternatives are there. I'll be the first to pledge my £1000 even though I'm by no means wealthy and without enough interest it's not being thrown into a pointless folly. It needs organising and publicising and unfortunately I'm not the man to do it. Over to the trust, what do you think?


Title: Re: KELVIN THOMAS TIME TO GO.
Post by: singcobb on May 01, 2021, 18:58:18 pm
Whilst not having any argument with the first two posts here, what are the alternatives at the present time? I cannot currently see any. Please someone give me other options.

There aren't any and anyone who says there is living in cloud cuckoo land.


Title: Re: KELVIN THOMAS TIME TO GO.
Post by: Terryfenwickatemyhamster on May 01, 2021, 19:12:52 pm
Well. I don't know what I'm supposed to do. I'm only giving my opinions on a football website. I actually do give a fŻck but so have plenty of supporters over the years and have tried their best to do something positive but what has come of it? The main problem is apathy and lack of motivation amongst our support and non support in our large town. How do we go about positively canvassing and mobilising support. It's been attempted and been partly successful a few times but never sustained. Some on here give opinions and suggestions but too many are too eager to immediately jump on them and poo poo them without coming up with a viable way forward apart from sarcasm and insults.
 Right, I'll put my money where my mouth is. How many regular supporters and season ticket holders do we have? Maybe around 4000. If all these supporters could pledge £1000 towards buying the club/ousting KT, then there's £4000,000 and that's just a start and I'm sure a few of our supporters could afford a lot more than this and once the interest was generated then maybe other outside interest might start taking notice and we could get some way towards getting genuine fan ownership. I know this will be ridiculed and poo pooed by certain elements and it may be pretty naive but without a Russian oligarch or Arab Sheik, what alternatives are there. I'll be the first to pledge my £1000 even though I'm by no means wealthy and without enough interest it's not being thrown into a pointless folly. It needs organising and publicising and unfortunately I'm not the man to do it. Over to the trust, what do you think?

I am exactly the same as you. Effectively looking for a star to following. And like you I would put my money where my mouth is. The difference is, I do see responsibility lying significantly the supporters representative body. At some point, COVID permitting the Trust has to call a meeting/demonstration, two pronged involving both the council and the ownership. It has to pin its colours to the mast and go out on a limb. Otherwise everything you, me and others say will remain as no more that white noise. It is pathetic that we have people on here who genuinely believe that if they repeatedly say that KT is a naughty boy, it some how promotes them as more caring or frustrated.

Can imagine how little impact it has on KT, when heís sat next to the pool in Florida, hearing that the Trust are going to release another statement on fan ownership. I still believe the lease holder has a duty of care and responsibility for the ground and its upkeep. Not just to us, but to the surrounding area. The council needs us on their back.


Title: Re: KELVIN THOMAS TIME TO GO.
Post by: SadOldGit on May 01, 2021, 19:29:13 pm
I am exactly the same as you. Effectively looking for a star to following. And like you I would put my money where my mouth is. The difference is, I do see responsibility lying significantly the supporters representative body. At some point, COVID permitting the Trust has to call a meeting/demonstration, two pronged involving both the council and the ownership. It has to pin its colours to the mast and go out on a limb. Otherwise everything you, me and others say will remain as no more that white noise. It is pathetic that we have people on here who genuinely believe that if they repeatedly say that KT is a naughty boy, it some how promotes them as more caring or frustrated.

Can imagine how little impact it has on KT, when heís sat next to the pool in Florida, hearing that the Trust are going to release another statement on fan ownership. I still believe the lease holder has a duty of care and responsibility for the ground and its upkeep. Not just to us, but to the surrounding area. The council needs us on their back.

It must be so frustrating for you sat on your higher ground looking down on the plebs with your schoolboy w@nking jibes.


Title: Re: KELVIN THOMAS TIME TO GO.
Post by: Shoemender on May 01, 2021, 19:34:30 pm
I am exactly the same as you. Effectively looking for a star to following. And like you I would put my money where my mouth is. The difference is, I do see responsibility lying significantly the supporters representative body. At some point, COVID permitting the Trust has to call a meeting/demonstration, two pronged involving both the council and the ownership. It has to pin its colours to the mast and go out on a limb. Otherwise everything you, me and others say will remain as no more that white noise. It is pathetic that we have people on here who genuinely believe that if they repeatedly say that KT is a naughty boy, it some how promotes them as more caring or frustrated.

Can imagine how little impact it has on KT, when heís sat next to the pool in Florida, hearing that the Trust are going to release another statement on fan ownership. I still believe the lease holder has a duty of care and responsibility for the ground and its upkeep. Not just to us, but to the surrounding area. The council needs us on their back.

Yes and with some sort of alternative, maybe along the lines of what I've suggested. Where do our new West Northants council stand on the Cobblers/ Thomas situation? As for giving opinions on all things regarding our club, it"s what a forum's for.


Title: Re: KELVIN THOMAS TIME TO GO.
Post by: St Edmundsbury Cobbler on May 01, 2021, 19:45:20 pm
There doesn't seem to be anyone willing to invest in or buy the football club, so surely if you get your wish and Kelvin Thomas goes then the football club would be liquidated and be no more?

Or are you, Shoemender and SadOldGit getting together and buying the football club and knocking down and rebuilding the stand and building the hotel blah blah blah?


Title: Re: KELVIN THOMAS TIME TO GO.
Post by: Shoemender on May 01, 2021, 20:06:37 pm
There doesn't seem to be anyone willing to invest in or buy the football club, so surely if you get your wish and Kelvin Thomas goes then the football club would be liquidated and be no more?

Or are you, Shoemender and SadOldGit getting together and buying the football club and knocking down and rebuilding the stand and building the hotel blah blah blah?
Obviously yes, as that's exactly what I've suggested. What's your suggestion?


Title: Re: KELVIN THOMAS TIME TO GO.
Post by: Shoemender on May 01, 2021, 20:10:17 pm
PS; Blah blah blah.


Title: Re: KELVIN THOMAS TIME TO GO.
Post by: SadOldGit on May 01, 2021, 20:21:47 pm
Kelvin.thomas@ntfc.co.uk


Title: Re: KELVIN THOMAS TIME TO GO.
Post by: Carton Lid on May 01, 2021, 20:26:37 pm
Itís not embarrassing at all. I am entitled to see their efforts as a shortcoming, as much as I do the owners.

We've had years of good intentions and **** footing around. Where as it got us. The Trust has spent years identifying the issues, very adequately. But to what effect? Do you honestly think the origins of the Trust would have put up with this?

ďSnide dig at the TrustĒ. Youíre taking the pi$$. It is totally the opposite. I want our Trust back. I want to see a spine against this shyte.
I've said all along that for the fans to have any say we need to be together. Like it or not ,the Trust are the only democratic supporters group at NTFC, yet you take every opportunity to put our fans off joining the Trust, thus leaving the fans without a strong voice.
     If the Trust had 5,000 members KT/DB & JW would have to take a lot more notice of fans thoughts, I know that , you know that and KT certainly knows that. You say "I want our Trust back" but you must see that every time you post, knocking the Trust, it could put people off joining and giving us that strong fans voice ?
     If "I want our Trust back" means you want a strong Trust stop the digs and encourage people to join, that's the way to get "Our strong Trust" back not by continual unfounded digs.


Title: Re: KELVIN THOMAS TIME TO GO.
Post by: Boot and shoe on May 01, 2021, 20:31:29 pm
i think there is no doubt it is time for Thomas to go but there is no one ready to step in .
The club is being run on a shoestring and it appears he hasnít got a hold on it at all .
The East Stand scenario is nothing short of a calamity and patience has run out .
There is no plan for anything and it is clear we are going nowhere right now .
Quite honestly i have had enough of his bluffing and stalling .


Title: Re: KELVIN THOMAS TIME TO GO.
Post by: Shoemender on May 01, 2021, 20:43:17 pm
Anyway. Nearly 2 hours since my admittedly probably naive but definitely from the heart suggestion and the apathy is deafening, especially considering this forum is representative of NTFCs' fan base.
Anyone else apart from me and hamster prepared to put their money where their mouths are because with KT we're going nowhere fast and don't seem to have any alternatives. What has KT got to say as I'm sure he or his minions read this.


Title: Re: KELVIN THOMAS TIME TO GO.
Post by: SadOldGit on May 01, 2021, 20:45:25 pm
I don't see why KT can't feck off immediately, he ain't the owner he is a lacky and a s***e one at that.


Title: Re: KELVIN THOMAS TIME TO GO.
Post by: Manwork04 on May 01, 2021, 21:12:48 pm
We should rally behind the Trust, the one true voice of the fans.
We need to know whatís going on with our club?
GPC what are your thoughts? we need to get the media on board and on our side, Thomasís time is up we need to make our voice heard, especially to the new council.


Title: Re: KELVIN THOMAS TIME TO GO.
Post by: Terryfenwickatemyhamster on May 01, 2021, 21:18:15 pm
I've said all along that for the fans to have any say we need to be together. Like it or not ,the Trust are the only democratic supporters group at NTFC, yet you take every opportunity to put our fans off joining the Trust, thus leaving the fans without a strong voice.
     If the Trust had 5,000 members KT/DB & JW would have to take a lot more notice of fans thoughts, I know that , you know that and KT certainly knows that. You say "I want our Trust back" but you must see that every time you post, knocking the Trust, it could put people off joining and giving us that strong fans voice ?
     If "I want our Trust back" means you want a strong Trust stop the digs and encourage people to join, that's the way to get "Our strong Trust" back not by continual unfounded digs.

So it my fault that the membership has dwindle and gone into a state of malaise? Get real mate.

You know as well as I do Roger that I made suggestion after suggestion when both on the board and as a non board member. The top table insisted on accruing information after information, through either hearsay or a series of FOI requests. Once it had that information it would trot out a succession of meetings to mull over it, with no concrete proposal or action points. The truth is, they never knew what to do with anything they had.

I have total respect for the Trust and those that work hard in the direction they do. But I will not accept that it has been anything more than a think tank and paper tiger since the day Tony Clarke jumped ship and joined DC. I have never shied away from presenting my point in person, as well as on here. Yet rather than the Trust board accepting any criticism, certain members have embarked on a relentless campaign, to suggest that anyone who does not agree with the Trusts standing, must be by default in the DB and KT camp. That narrative, is what serves to alienate new members and dissolve any chance of an inclusive atmosphere. It is not a black and white issue for most. They need swaying and definitely need to see that the Trust board are prepared to get out there and win them over. They won't do that from KPWMC.

I stand by what I have said from day one. The Trust has to come out into the open and try to engage the main body of the support, and in particular its own members. If they believe so strongly, along with others on here, have the conviction to come off the forums, out of the shadows, and stand in front of Sixfields making a point. Certainly the founders of the Trust would of done. This one example where the pen is most definitely subordinate to the sword.

In short. EITHER SH*T. OR GET OFF THE POT



Title: Re: KELVIN THOMAS TIME TO GO.
Post by: Melbourne Cobbler on May 01, 2021, 21:24:48 pm
Like it or not there are 2 parts to this debate (I use the term loosely). The first surrounds KT/DB and the clubís performance during their tenure and its prospects moving forward?

As I have said many times, they have put in as much finance as any investor could reasonably expected to have done for a club at our level over their period of ownership. By the end of this season that will be circa 8 million? However, the fact remains that the club has stood still and has not moved forward either off, and certainly not on the pitch. Therefore the assessment has to be that they have ultimately failed in this venture to date?

Secondly they are clearly not the future of the club or the ideal owners? As they have themselves said, they fully intend to move on at some point and as they are not supporters of the club, therefore their motives will always be geared elsewhere when it comes to the crunch, and are not the long term answer. This doesnít make them bad people or owners, just not ideal?

As touched on by others the next part of this debate is who or what comes next? Often on here you will see calls for a managers head with no real foresight as to any alternative and criteria attached to that suggestion? How has that worked out? Be under no illusion, whilst KT/DB are far from perfect things could be far far worse? There are plenty of potential owners out there generally who would love the opportunity to take over a league club but have neither the resources or expertise to take the club forward or even worse, allow it to tread water? A fair percentage of the dross out there would almost certainly drive it into oblivion?

So whilst the tenure of KT/DB could not be described as a success, the very fact that the club is still a league club should not be dismissed as irrelevant, because itís a long way from that? What everyone needs to understand and accept is that there is a very real chance that the next owners take the club into oblivion?  Is that a reason not to instigate change, you can argue it isnít but donít assume it will be a positive experience? It could very well be the beginning of the future, but chances are it may be the beginning of the end?

Whatever side of the fence you sit on in this debate is pretty irrelevant because one day in the future (possibly near) KT and DB will move on. Instead of kicking lumps out of each other, perhaps it would be an idea for the support base to decide what we want the future of the club to look like and actually do something constructive about it? All I see so far with far too few exceptions is a bunch of total w@nkers far to keen to spend hours on a keyboard playing oneupmanship whilst Sixfields burns and do fcuk all else (and before you start Iíll put myself firmly at the forefront of that group).


Title: Re: KELVIN THOMAS TIME TO GO.
Post by: tcobb on May 01, 2021, 21:25:29 pm
Manwork04, im not defending KT at all, but , if you're putting the Fans /Trust  forward as new owners of NTFC then you will lose the backing of a lot of the fan base.  Personally don't want either anywhere near the running of the Club.


Title: Re: KELVIN THOMAS TIME TO GO.
Post by: Teachers Pet on May 01, 2021, 21:25:34 pm

What has KT got to say as I'm sure he or his minions read this.


Nothing, because there's a social media boycott  :P


Title: Re: KELVIN THOMAS TIME TO GO.
Post by: Terryfenwickatemyhamster on May 01, 2021, 21:27:49 pm
Like it or not there are 2 parts to this debate (I use the term loosely). The first surrounds KT/DB and the clubís performance during their tenure and its prospects moving forward?

As I have said many times, they have put in as much finance as any investor could reasonably expected to have done for a club at our level over their period of ownership. By the end of this season that will be circa 8 million? However, the fact remains that the club has stood still and has not moved forward either off, and certainly not on the pitch. Therefore the assessment has to be that they have ultimately failed in this venture to date?

Secondly they are clearly not the future of the club or the ideal owners? As they have themselves said, they fully intend to move on at some point and as they are not supporters of the club, therefore their motives will always be geared elsewhere when it comes to the crunch, and are not the long term answer. This doesnít make them bad people or owners, just not ideal?

As touched on by others the next part of this debate is who or what comes next? Often on here you will see calls for a managers head with no real foresight as to any alternative and criteria attached to that suggestion? How has that worked out? Be under no illusion, whilst KT/DB are far from perfect things could be far far worse? There are plenty of potential owners out there generally who would love the opportunity to take over a league club but have neither the resources or expertise to take the club forward or even worse, allow it to tread water? A fair percentage of the dross out there would almost certainly drive it into oblivion?

So whilst the tenure of KT/DB could not be described as a success, the very fact that the club is still a league club should not be dismissed as irrelevant, because itís a long way from that? What everyone needs to understand and accept is that there is a very real chance that the next owners take the club into oblivion?  Is that a reason not to instigate change, you can argue it isnít but donít assume it will be a positive experience? It could very well be the beginning of the future, but chances are it may be the beginning of the end?

Whatever side of the fence you sit on in this debate is pretty irrelevant because one day in the future (possibly near) KT and DB will move on. Instead of kicking lumps out of each other, perhaps it would be an idea for the support base to decide what we want the future of the club to look like and actually do something constructive about it? All I see so far with far too few exceptions is a bunch of total w@nkers far to keen to spend hours on a keyboard playing oneupmanship whilst Sixfields burns and to fcuk all else (and before you start Iíll put myself firmly at the forefront of that group).

Fantastic post, as always Melbourne


Title: Re: KELVIN THOMAS TIME TO GO.
Post by: Shoemender on May 01, 2021, 21:45:56 pm
Fantastic post, as always Melbourne
Maybe, but still no alternative suggestions apart from the the fact that we're all a load of wŠnkers.


Title: Re: KELVIN THOMAS TIME TO GO.
Post by: Shoemender on May 01, 2021, 21:48:15 pm
Nothing, because there's a social media boycott  :P

Bet they're still reading it though. I'll wait 4 days to see what they've got to say about their intentions.


Title: Re: KELVIN THOMAS TIME TO GO.
Post by: Manwork04 on May 01, 2021, 21:49:39 pm
Manwork04, im not defending KT at all, but , if you're putting the Fans /Trust  forward as new owners of NTFC then you will lose the backing of a lot of the fan base.  Personally don't want either anywhere near the running of the Club.
Not at all mate, but they are the recognised voice of the supporters, they have the gravitas with the media.
We as a support base need to ask questions of the owners and if necessary let the council know what we feel as well.
Donít under estimate the effect this could have.


Title: Re: KELVIN THOMAS TIME TO GO.
Post by: singcobb on May 01, 2021, 21:51:32 pm
We should rally behind the Trust, the one true voice of the fans.
We need to know whatís going on with our club?
GPC what are your thoughts? we need to get the media on board and on our side, Thomasís time is up we need to make our voice heard, especially to the new council.


If that's the case we're fķcked.


Title: Re: KELVIN THOMAS TIME TO GO.
Post by: Manwork04 on May 01, 2021, 21:53:07 pm
If that's the case we're fķcked.
Only we can make it better.


Title: Re: KELVIN THOMAS TIME TO GO.
Post by: Carton Lid on May 01, 2021, 22:22:41 pm
If that's the case we're fķcked.
So what are the alternatives then ?


Title: Re: KELVIN THOMAS TIME TO GO.
Post by: Carton Lid on May 01, 2021, 22:33:31 pm
I posted on here a few weeks ago asking what people don't like about the Trust but got no answers. So I'll make it personal, TCobb says "Personally don't want either anywhere near the running of the Club"  and Singcobb says in answer to Manwork saying we should back the Trust  "If that's the case we're fķcked"
     I accept that everyone is entitled to an opinion, so can I politely ask what are the reasons for you to hold such views ?

 


Title: Re: KELVIN THOMAS TIME TO GO.
Post by: cobblertone on May 01, 2021, 23:09:08 pm
Are people forgetting that DC received unquestioned support by the majority, virtually to the bitter end. I can remember the abuse I received handing out the ĎWe Want Answersí leaflets and numerous comments about what a fantastic chairman he was.
There is zero chance of getting the masses to believe that KT is anything other than our saviour and throughly nice chap.
Any efforts needs to be concentrated on the council, although I donít see a happy ending for KT.


Title: Re: KELVIN THOMAS TIME TO GO.
Post by: GrangeParkCobbler on May 01, 2021, 23:31:13 pm
Are people forgetting that DC received unquestioned support by the majority, virtually to the bitter end. I can remember the abuse I received handing out the ĎWe Want Answersí leaflets and numerous comments about what a fantastic chairman he was.
There is zero chance of getting the masses to believe that KT is anything other than our saviour and throughly nice chap.
Any efforts needs to be concentrated on the council, although I donít see a happy ending for KT.

Apathy reigns!!

Pressure on the council? For what? To get them to hand over a load of land to KT so that they can sell it off for redevelopment and from the proceeds we'll get a few quid to put some boxes in the stand and put cladding on the back?
Oh, we might get a car park on the East stand side too........

The Council have been consistent for the past few years, and the new WNC are continuing in the same vein. The Chairman must deliver on the completion of the stand BEFORE any land deals are signed off.


Title: Re: KELVIN THOMAS TIME TO GO.
Post by: everbrite on May 02, 2021, 00:26:06 am
There doesn't seem to be anyone willing to invest in or buy the football club, so surely if you get your wish and Kelvin Thomas goes then the football club would be liquidated and be no more?

Or are you, Shoemender and SadOldGit getting together and buying the football club and knocking down and rebuilding the stand and building the hotel blah blah blah?

Dead right St Edmund  - all this hate and abuse will get us nowhere and we may end up on the Racecourse! Itís the curse of the Bottomfeeders as Terry eloquently( :D) puts it!


Title: Re: KELVIN THOMAS TIME TO GO.
Post by: Carton Lid on May 02, 2021, 00:30:27 am
.
 Right, I'll put my money where my mouth is. How many regular supporters and season ticket holders do we have? Maybe around 4000. If all these supporters could pledge £1000 towards buying the club/ousting KT, then there's £4000,000 and that's just a start and I'm sure a few of our supporters could afford a lot more than this and once the interest was generated then maybe other outside interest might start taking notice and we could get some way towards getting genuine fan ownership. I know this will be ridiculed and poo pooed by certain elements and it may be pretty naive but without a Russian oligarch or Arab Sheik, what alternatives are there. I'll be the first to pledge my £1000 even though I'm by no means wealthy and without enough interest it's not being thrown into a pointless folly. It needs organising and publicising and unfortunately I'm not the man to do it. Over to the trust, what do you think?
I'm in


Title: Re: KELVIN THOMAS TIME TO GO.
Post by: GrangeParkCobbler on May 02, 2021, 00:58:22 am
Dead right St Edmund  - all this hate and abuse will get us nowhere and we may end up on the Racecourse! Itís the curse of the Bottomfeeders as Terry eloquently( :D) puts it!

Thanks for your input...as usual! Big on name calling, short on substance.

Do you really think KT will walk away? What if he does? The vast majority of money invested (loaned to) in our club is not even his.

£6-£7m down, sitting on land leases worth upwards of £20m......and you think he'll liquidate the club??


Title: Re: KELVIN THOMAS TIME TO GO.
Post by: Shadowstorm on May 02, 2021, 02:30:03 am
If he was to go (and I'm say I'm one who's nailed his flag to that mast) who is going to coming in for us? Where's the money coming from? 


Title: Re: KELVIN THOMAS TIME TO GO.
Post by: Melbourne Cobbler on May 02, 2021, 03:17:53 am
Maybe, but still no alternative suggestions apart from the the fact that we're all a load of wŠnkers.

If it helps your post was right up there with the most constructive. Iím in for a grand, possibly more? Not suggesting Iím totally convinced it is the right solution, but if itís the only offer on the table so be it?

As a member of the trust all I have ever asked is engage with the membership? I have known Andy Robertís since we were little kids. I donít know him well, but he has always come across as a thoroughly decent bloke who would only act with the best of intentions.

However, thatís not enough? Right now what this club needs is the support base to be galvanised into some sort of unified voice with a clear direction on where we want the club to go? That is going to be a considerable challenge and far from easy. But if we want to instigate change and want the future to be different itís a challenge that has to be overcome otherwise it will probably be more of the same, and thatís at best?


Title: Re: KELVIN THOMAS TIME TO GO.
Post by: Risdene on May 02, 2021, 05:16:44 am
What is the alternative to KT?

The usual suspects repetitively pontificate their opinion but not one has come up with a viable future plan from behind their keyboards.

Obviously KT has tested the patience of the loyal support of Cobblers fans.
Now is the time to stop 'talking the talk and START walking the walk'!!!!!


Title: Re: KELVIN THOMAS TIME TO GO.
Post by: Terryfenwickatemyhamster on May 02, 2021, 05:52:23 am
What is the alternative to KT?


Didnít you know thereís an orderly queue for ownership of 25 defunct ex league one players. Because thatís all you really get for your money.



Title: Re: KELVIN THOMAS TIME TO GO.
Post by: Zen Master on May 02, 2021, 08:12:40 am
Could this club survive or thrive as a league club on an ongoing break even/ surplus income basis? It would have to if the Trust somehow got control if there was no one with deeper pockets to stump up occasionally. I honestly donít think the bulk of support would be happy with a position that the trust owns the club and is running at a break even position but in National league south.
 
 What does bother me is the rate of debt being racked up in the five and a half years of their stewardship. Iím assuming a chunk is part of the 5USport time which still is a mystery to me in how they brought in and were then brought out?
 
 Anyhow something has to give. KT should have spent the money early doors on the stand and a few decent players then cashed out quick with a better product on offer to the market rather than this war of attrition waiting for something to give.


Title: Re: KELVIN THOMAS TIME TO GO.
Post by: SadOldGit on May 02, 2021, 09:20:34 am
Due to the investment (debt!) the current pair have in this project there is no way they are just going to write it off unless they flounder. The councils, old and new, cannot be seen to **** it up for a third time so they are likely to remain uncommitted. The 'club for a pound' deal was made on an understanding the stand be completed and I would be amazed if they backed down from this position. If 4k fans put in a grand each (count me in) the only way they would ever actually get ownership is when the club is once again at death's door. I think this moment will arrive when this debacle is played out but it could be a while away yet.


Title: Re: KELVIN THOMAS TIME TO GO.
Post by: cobblertone on May 02, 2021, 09:31:33 am
Apathy reigns!!

Pressure on the council? For what? To get them to hand over a load of land to KT so that they can sell it off for redevelopment and from the proceeds we'll get a few quid to put some boxes in the stand and put cladding on the back?
Oh, we might get a car park on the East stand side too........

The Council have been consistent for the past few years, and the new WNC are continuing in the same vein. The Chairman must deliver on the completion of the stand BEFORE any land deals are signed off.

To sort the lease.
Do you think KT is going to walk away, or that anyone would buy us until it is sorted?
They are clearly not going to shell out to finish the ground until something is in place.
If they werenít £8m in (whatever the figure is) Iím sure they would have jacked by now.


Title: Re: KELVIN THOMAS TIME TO GO.
Post by: Manwork04 on May 02, 2021, 09:34:12 am
Apathy reigns!!

Pressure on the council? For what? To get them to hand over a load of land to KT so that they can sell it off for redevelopment and from the proceeds we'll get a few quid to put some boxes in the stand and put cladding on the back?
Oh, we might get a car park on the East stand side too........

The Council have been consistent for the past few years, and the new WNC are continuing in the same vein. The Chairman must deliver on the completion of the stand BEFORE any land deals are signed off.
We should make it clear that the fans have had enough of KTs stalling and are fully behind the councilís demands that he completes the east stand ( to a decent standard)  BEFORE the land deal.


Title: Re: KELVIN THOMAS TIME TO GO.
Post by: GrangeParkCobbler on May 02, 2021, 09:56:28 am
To sort the lease.
Do you think KT is going to walk away, or that anyone would buy us until it is sorted?
They are clearly not going to shell out to finish the ground until something is in place.
If they werenít £8m in (whatever the figure is) Iím sure they would have jacked by now.


But the leases are sorted, they have been for ages! KT/DB now want to buy the freehold of the land and sell it off in parcels for development....the second subsidiary lease which covers the athletics track would remain in situ.
What mechanism is there for any of the proceeds to filter their way back to the club, other than to pay off the mountain of debt accrued over the past five years?

Buy the land for X, sell it in bits for X+Y, and walk away with a profit....that seems to be whatís on offer.


Title: Re: KELVIN THOMAS TIME TO GO.
Post by: Manwork04 on May 02, 2021, 09:59:39 am
Count me in on the grand as well.


Title: Re: KELVIN THOMAS TIME TO GO.
Post by: BackOfTheNet on May 02, 2021, 10:13:06 am
I deliberately didn't open this thread when it appeared yesterday because I suspected it would be people from both sides of a barely coherent debate having a hissy fit in the immediate wake of our relegation that would  inevitably descend into finger pointing and name calling. To be honest, that was the last thing I wanted to read yesterday. Looking at it now though, lo and behold...

Come on guys, pull yourselves together. We got relegated, we'll play another 46 league matches and a handful of cup matches next year, just at a lower level. Throwing your toys out of the pram and taking lumps out of each other won't change that and just looks embarrassing; any Peterborough fans coming along for a good gloat would be pžssing themselves reading this thread.


Title: Re: KELVIN THOMAS TIME TO GO.
Post by: Manwork04 on May 02, 2021, 10:18:24 am
I deliberately didn't open this thread when it appeared yesterday because I suspected it would be people from both sides of a barely coherent debate having a hissy fit in the immediate wake of our relegation that would  inevitably descend into finger pointing and name calling. To be honest, that was the last thing I wanted to read yesterday. Looking at it now though, lo and behold...

Come on guys, pull yourselves together. We got relegated, we'll play another 46 league matches and a handful of cup matches next year, just at a lower level. Throwing your toys out of the pram and taking lumps out of each other won't change that and just looks embarrassing; any Peterborough fans coming along for a good gloat would be pžssing themselves reading this thread.
I couldnít disagree more, there are a couple of people trying to deflect but the majority are united, we need to put pressure on the owners to tell us what there plans are for our club.
As for boro fans, I think they should be happy they have a chairman who has their interests at heart.


Title: Re: KELVIN THOMAS TIME TO GO.
Post by: everbrite on May 02, 2021, 10:18:43 am
Yes and with some sort of alternative, maybe along the lines of what I've suggested. Where do our new West Northants council stand on the Cobblers/ Thomas situation? As for giving opinions on all things regarding our club, it"s what a forum's for.

4000 members each contributing £1000 talk about pie in the sky figures!  
£1000 each are you serious  ;D ;D ::)


Title: Re: KELVIN THOMAS TIME TO GO.
Post by: Manwork04 on May 02, 2021, 10:20:42 am
4000 members each contributing £1000 talk about pie in the sky figures!  
£1000 each are you serious  ;D ;D ::)
Why not Wimbledon did it?


Title: Re: KELVIN THOMAS TIME TO GO.
Post by: Terryfenwickatemyhamster on May 02, 2021, 11:09:11 am
I deliberately didn't open this thread when it appeared yesterday because I suspected it would be people from both sides of a barely coherent debate having a hissy fit in the immediate wake of our relegation that would  inevitably descend into finger pointing and name calling. To be honest, that was the last thing I wanted to read yesterday. Looking at it now though, lo and behold...

Come on guys, pull yourselves together. We got relegated, we'll play another 46 league matches and a handful of cup matches next year, just at a lower level. Throwing your toys out of the pram and taking lumps out of each other won't change that and just looks embarrassing; any Peterborough fans coming along for a good gloat would be pžssing themselves reading this thread.

Iím genuine not all that fussed about relegation. I have seen so many ups and downs over the years, I couldn't care less, I will still be sat in my same seat, with same bunch of people, enjoying the experience.

What I find incredibly frustrating is need of some to create different camps. If you are not prepared to constantly have a pop at KT you are put by default into being a fan of his. I have no axe to grind with KT, for two reasons. Firstly, I never once doubted than any owner/owners would be attracted purely by the land. Secondly, he has accepted both my criticism and my praise about his tenure with a degree of intelligence and decorum, way above that of some others.

Another concern I have, and it must shared by KT and all of the staff at NTFC, is just how much this one issue detracts from the amount of fantastic work the club and its staff do only a daily basis. It must be a nightmare for morale, that one issue casts such a dark shadow over what is a multi faceted operation. With the exception of myself and a couple of others, you would be mistaken for thinking NTFC is nothing but a complete failure. That is simply not true. Their are some incredibly motivated individuals working there, who are supporters themselves.

I am more than happy to put my money where my mouth is. But it will not be going anywhere near the Trust. They lack all of the principle skills to get any deal over the line. Theyíre paranoia about all things KT, precludes them from making anything other than subjective decisions. Not all of them, but most. They are set on a fan ownership model, I canít recall that ever being voted on at all by the membership. For me that potentially puts them not only at odds with the wider support, but most likely with their own membership. I am completely fair when I say, put it to a vote. If the majority of the support decide on something, youíve got me on board.

Until then, I am no more than a supporter of whatever methods that are employed to plonk a team in front of me, and look forward to next season as much as I have any.



Title: Re: KELVIN THOMAS TIME TO GO.
Post by: everbrite on May 02, 2021, 11:20:47 am
I'm in

Regarding the anti- trust comments made by two on here they appeared to me to be personal comments rather than aimed directly at the Trust. At least on here you are seen as the voice of the Trust yet you get involved in unseemly arguments on NTFC goalkeepers.  Nobody doubts your integrity and love of the Club. Yet your drive to recruit more members has not taken off? Have you asked yourself why? Terry is right when suggesting there is no unifying figure to lead a challenge versus the current owners effectively. Perhaps an initiative to identify a charismatic Trust Candidate who might be capable of doing this, we are faced with the unedifying and ongoing issue with the current Directors.


Title: Re: KELVIN THOMAS TIME TO GO.
Post by: Carton Lid on May 02, 2021, 11:39:15 am
Regarding the anti- trust comments made by two on here they appeared to me to be personal comments rather than aimed directly at the Trust. At least on here you are seen as the voice of the Trust yet you get involved in unseemly arguments on NTFC goalkeepers.  Nobody doubts your integrity and love of the Club. Yet your drive to recruit more members has not taken off? Have you asked yourself why? Terry is right when suggesting there is no unifying figure to lead a challenge versus the current owners effectively. Perhaps an initiative to identify a charismatic Trust Candidate who might be capable of doing this, we are faced with the unedifying and ongoing issue with the current Directors.

As with most of your comments, you are wrong. I am a Trust life member nothing more, nothing less. As a supporter I am quite entitled to comment on any NTFC players performance, just like everyone else, I NEVER comment about a person, just their performance.
   Thank you for informing me that my " drive to recruit more members has not taken off" as I didn't know I HAD a drive to recruit more members. What I had posted was, as in all forms of life, people are stronger when they are together and we need a strong group of supporters at NTFC.
   The Trust is there as a democratic supporters group, so it would be natural for fans to join, but it doesn't have to be the Trust, if someone else wants to form another democratic supporters group, they too will have my backing.


Title: Re: KELVIN THOMAS TIME TO GO.
Post by: random on May 02, 2021, 12:12:41 pm
Evers and Terry - You certainly seem to hold the Trust and it's members, far more accountable to their limited actions than KT and NTFC, that is why you get accused of being anti-NTFC (or whatever you want to call it)

Why do you defend KT and NTFC so much?  Yes they are human beings and working in their role but who is to blame for the FACTS that put them and NTFC in such a poor light?

Who is to blame or can make the changes that we turn the tide of constant underperforming, of no short, medium or long term plan?  Who is responsible for the broken windows not being fixed and are happy for that to continue, seemly not caring how that looks to others - including players and agents?

It's the little things that add up to make the different, but the little things are constantly ignored.

We have the smallest ground of any established league club and thats before you factor in catchment area and lack of high quality competition. We have no training facilities, tickets brought out of a cabin, we are non-league in many aspects. I am sure these are some of the issues that Brady is hinting at, he knows his hands are tied going forward. Again who wants to work for a business (when you can choose from 4-5 or more places to work) who have no ambitions and your work place in run down with broken windows, would YOU?

DC was desperate to get in League 1, yet KT has been gifted promotion TWICE, yet both time acted like Hammy and seemly doesn't seem to care what league we are in.

The Trust need to be more accommodating and modern in it's thinking, but it's not easy and even Drilling has softened his outlook the more he has been involved with the Trust.
 





Title: Re: KELVIN THOMAS TIME TO GO.
Post by: Shoemender on May 02, 2021, 12:18:58 pm
4000 members each contributing £1000 talk about pie in the sky figures!  
£1000 each are you serious  ;D ;D ::)

It was only a suggestion and as I said at the time probably naive, other clubs have managed similar things but unfortunately we are NTFC, where apathy seems to reign. The £1000 suggestion was only a start, which I'm sure plenty of people, if they are concerned about the future of our club, could easily stretch to and once the ball is rolling who knows, from tiny acorns and all that.
But at the moment only about 6 or 7 people have shown an interest and we'll probably only manage to stretch to 100 or so as there are too many people who are happy to accept what they've got and aren't too fussed as to what may be going on, ŗ la Cardoza. So realistically it's a non starter.  Anyway Mr Evers, what's your suggestion for the future apart from snide digs and sarcastic comments. Do you have some sort of agenda?


Title: Re: KELVIN THOMAS TIME TO GO.
Post by: cobblertone on May 02, 2021, 12:35:46 pm
There are a lot of Ďwealthyí local people who follow the Cobblers. Many of which who would have shelled out the 10 grand (or whatever it was) for the boxes. Getting that co-ordinated to take an actual interest in owning/running the club is a different matter. I do like the idea of fan ownership, even if it doesnít springboard us to greater things.
It would just be nice (and maybe utopian) to be run by people who first and foremost have the clubs and fans best interests at heart. The issue I guess is that once anyone is actually invested in a business the goal posts can quickly change.


Title: Re: KELVIN THOMAS TIME TO GO.
Post by: everbrite on May 02, 2021, 14:04:28 pm
It was only a suggestion and as I said at the time probably naive, other clubs have managed similar things but unfortunately we are NTFC, where apathy seems to reign. The £1000 suggestion was only a start, which I'm sure plenty of people, if they are concerned about the future of our club, could easily stretch to and once the ball is rolling who knows, from tiny acorns and all that.
But at the moment only about 6 or 7 people have shown an interest and we'll probably only manage to stretch to 100 or so as there are too many people who are happy to accept what they've got and aren't too fussed as to what may be going on, ŗ la Cardoza. So realistically it's a non starter.  Anyway Mr Evers, what's your suggestion for the future apart from snide digs and sarcastic comments. Do you have some sort of agenda?

Sorry to hear that you decide to inject those two villains namely snide and sarcasm. I appreciate your comments might have been a impulse born out of desperation with perceived situation. Your repetitive argument against the current chairman is counter productive as is your call to another false ally namely apathy; counter productive also? To win the support of the Ďfaithfulí  itís pointless calling them apathetic. Perhaps most of them are realistic or sensible enough to ignore your calls for some sort of consortium. You need urgently need to change track; why not join the Trust and give them more strings to their bow? Find a charismatic leader capable of gelling pro active support.


Title: Re: KELVIN THOMAS TIME TO GO.
Post by: random on May 02, 2021, 14:55:13 pm
Find a charismatic leader capable of gelling pro active support.

The most sensible think you have every said, possibly the only sensible thing you have ever said  ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D


Title: Re: KELVIN THOMAS TIME TO GO.
Post by: Mathius on May 02, 2021, 15:35:12 pm
I don't know how much it will take to pay KT what he thinks he's due but it really is time for him to go. The council should not concede any land to get the stadium finished. Thanks again to him saving the club but please sell.


Title: Re: KELVIN THOMAS TIME TO GO.
Post by: Another Pedj on May 02, 2021, 16:04:13 pm
£5M sould secure it.
 Its a no Brainer though because as Shoey says we are certain to make a profit. So  £5M at say 2%  would mean we only need 100K per annum. No problem.


Title: Re: KELVIN THOMAS TIME TO GO.
Post by: Letchworthcobbler on May 02, 2021, 16:13:28 pm
It's been 6 years since KT has come in and nothing has changed. Think it time for big changes, or, he has to leave. Fans have had enough now. Been going on for too long!


Title: Re: KELVIN THOMAS TIME TO GO.
Post by: Carton Lid on May 02, 2021, 16:22:31 pm
The value of the club is £0, BUT, if the same deal is available as KT got, with the debt reduced to £0 and the cost of the club is £1 there would be a queue of people interested.


Title: Re: KELVIN THOMAS TIME TO GO.
Post by: Cornish Cobbler on May 02, 2021, 17:11:00 pm
Time to go Ė yes we have a club but enough is enough.
Thanks for saving us and thanks too for that brief period of belief when I thought we were finally going somewhere  when the ĎChinese money' turned up. Unfortunately and given whatís happened since, there would seem to be insufficient will / finances to progress us further. Whilst the Ďlandí may be a golden chalice it and the parties involved and the associated Ďbaggage' mean I feel it will either never be resolved satisfactorily or will do so in a way that gives no tangible benefit to the club itself.
Hate to say it but given the overall situation maybe the answer is to include the whole site in any deal and start again elsewhere but actually build something fit for purpose and ambitious in respect to the size of club the town / county could support.   This would need both progressive and ambitious owners / council and I canít see that happening unless something significant changes. Alternatively a new owner with very deep pockets and a desire to progress the club in all respects would suit if one could indeed be found.
Have to say, I'd love it if we could just beat the Pish on a regular basis -  the fact we are so out of step with our rivals on so many levels, sadly says it all about where we find ourselves.


Title: Re: KELVIN THOMAS TIME TO GO.
Post by: andycobbler on May 02, 2021, 17:17:25 pm
Iím genuine not all that fussed about relegation. I have seen so many ups and downs over the years, I couldn't care less, I will still be sat in my same seat, with same bunch of people, enjoying the experience.

What I find incredibly frustrating is need of some to create different camps. If you are not prepared to constantly have a pop at KT you are put by default into being a fan of his. I have no axe to grind with KT, for two reasons. Firstly, I never once doubted than any owner/owners would be attracted purely by the land. Secondly, he has accepted both my criticism and my praise about his tenure with a degree of intelligence and decorum, way above that of some others.

Another concern I have, and it must shared by KT and all of the staff at NTFC, is just how much this one issue detracts from the amount of fantastic work the club and its staff do only a daily basis. It must be a nightmare for morale, that one issue casts such a dark shadow over what is a multi faceted operation. With the exception of myself and a couple of others, you would be mistaken for thinking NTFC is nothing but a complete failure. That is simply not true. Their are some incredibly motivated individuals working there, who are supporters themselves.

I am more than happy to put my money where my mouth is. But it will not be going anywhere near the Trust. They lack all of the principle skills to get any deal over the line. Theyíre paranoia about all things KT, precludes them from making anything other than subjective decisions. Not all of them, but most. They are set on a fan ownership model, I canít recall that ever being voted on at all by the membership. For me that potentially puts them not only at odds with the wider support, but most likely with their own membership. I am completely fair when I say, put it to a vote. If the majority of the support decide on something, youíve got me on board.

Until then, I am no more than a supporter of whatever methods that are employed to plonk a team in front of me, and look forward to next season as much as I have any.


Great post Tel, agree completely.


Title: Re: KELVIN THOMAS TIME TO GO.
Post by: Terryfenwickatemyhamster on May 02, 2021, 17:59:05 pm
Evers and Terry - You certainly seem to hold the Trust and it's members, far more accountable to their limited actions than KT and NTFC, that is why you get accused of being anti-NTFC (or whatever you want to call it)

Why do you defend KT and NTFC so much?  Yes they are human beings and working in their role but who is to blame for the FACTS that put them and NTFC in such a poor light?

Who is to blame or can make the changes that we turn the tide of constant underperforming, of no short, medium or long term plan?  Who is responsible for the broken windows not being fixed and are happy for that to continue, seemly not caring how that looks to others - including players and agents?

It's the little things that add up to make the different, but the little things are constantly ignored.

We have the smallest ground of any established league club and thats before you factor in catchment area and lack of high quality competition. We have no training facilities, tickets brought out of a cabin, we are non-league in many aspects. I am sure these are some of the issues that Brady is hinting at, he knows his hands are tied going forward. Again who wants to work for a business (when you can choose from 4-5 or more places to work) who have no ambitions and your work place in run down with broken windows, would YOU?

DC was desperate to get in League 1, yet KT has been gifted promotion TWICE, yet both time acted like Hammy and seemly doesn't seem to care what league we are in.

The Trust need to be more accommodating and modern in it's thinking, but it's not easy and even Drilling has softened his outlook the more he has been involved with the Trust.
 





Itís not a question of comparing my opinion of KT, compared to my opinion of the Trust board. I believe that there is a significant luxury in sitting back and offering up opinions on how someone else should spend their money. You and many others seem to forget that KT is effectively an employee, like everyone else at NTFC. He is not the main money man, yet takes the lions share of the flack. My experience of him has been positive and in fact he has quite open about his intentions. I am used to people like him, and I think heís doing what he has been asked to, working as what can only be described as the meat in the sandwich.

In terms of my indifference about relegation. I would watch the Cobblers if they were playing on the moon if I had to. I have experienced football at every level and across different countries, viewing it at both standard and corporate. But, I can truly say that whoever and wherever NTFC are playing, I still get the buzz. No matter who runs the club, or what league we are in. I will not be embarrassed by my desire to be part of the club going forward. Of course I hope for better times and a nicer stadium, but it ranks quite low in what makes me happy.

A few weeks back a good friend of mine passed away from COVID. He was a work colleague and a true Cobbler. He even played at youth level for the club. One of the families wishes for him, was that the hearse went past the club on the way to the crematorium. Obviously he was only allowed very limited numbers at the cream. His wife asked if those that stood on the hill could where cobblers colours. I got in touch with the club, within a matter of hours they supplied me with a significant amount of shirts for the mourners to where. They also made other offers to me for the family.

Now, I could name so many times that the club has helped me, or so many other people, nearly all of which flyís under the radar. The club has its issues. But it is not some malevolent monster with scant regard for its support. On the whole it is caring, considerate club. There is a very vocal few, who have made it their mission to undermine and poor scorn on everything NTFC. They have lost complete sight of the larger picture, and become engulfed in only the shortcomings of the club. They have forgotten the lure of the floodlights, the smell of the balti pies, the butterflies in the stomach on a match day/night, and replaced it with vitriol and venom. Not me... I'm still that tiny lad, who walked towards those floodlights across the racecourse all those years ago. Nothings putting me off it. Not KT, Not the Trust, and  certainly no one on here. Onwards and upwards I say... Or downwards just for now 😀😀😀   



Title: Re: KELVIN THOMAS TIME TO GO.
Post by: BackOfTheNet on May 02, 2021, 18:34:38 pm
Itís not a question of comparing my opinion of KT, compared to my opinion of the Trust board. I believe that there is a significant luxury in sitting back and offering up opinions on how someone else should spend their money. You and many others seem to forget that KT is effectively an employee, like everyone else at NTFC. He is not the main money man, yet takes the lions share of the flack. My experience of him has been positive and in fact he has quite open about his intentions. I am used to people like him, and I think heís doing what he has been asked to, working as what can only be described as the meat in the sandwich.

In terms of my indifference about relegation. I would watch the Cobblers if they were playing on the moon if I had to. I have experienced football at every level and across different countries, viewing it at both standard and corporate. But, I can truly say that whoever and wherever NTFC are playing, I still get the buzz. No matter who runs the club, or what league we are in. I will not be embarrassed by my desire to be part of the club going forward. Of course I hope for better times and a nicer stadium, but it ranks quite low in what makes me happy.

A few weeks back a good friend of mine passed away from COVID. He was a work colleague and a true Cobbler. He even played at youth level for the club. One of the families wishes for him, was that the hearse went past the club on the way to the crematorium. Obviously he was only allowed very limited numbers at the cream. His wife asked if those that stood on the hill could where cobblers colours. I got in touch with the club, within a matter of hours they supplied me with a significant amount of shirts for the mourners to where. They also made other offers to me for the family.

Now, I could name so many times that the club has helped me, or so many other people, nearly all of which flyís under the radar. The club has its issues. But it is not some malevolent monster with scant regard for its support. On the whole it is caring, considerate club. There is a very vocal few, who have made it their mission to undermine and poor scorn on everything NTFC. They have lost complete sight of the larger picture, and become engulfed in only the shortcomings of the club. They have forgotten the lure of the floodlights, the smell of the balti pies, the butterflies in the stomach on a match day/night, and replaced it with vitriol and venom. Not me... I'm still that tiny lad, who walked towards those floodlights across the racecourse all those years ago. Nothings putting me off it. Not KT, Not the Trust, and  certainly no one on here. Onwards and upwards I say... Or downwards just for now 😀😀😀   

Well said, I'm massively proud of the work the club does in the community, and that's doubly true over the course of the pandemic.

I've moaned before about people shaking their head and dismissing football as "only a game", people who are at a loss to understand why we care about it as much as we all do (my wife among them!). Those people just don't get it, don't get that it isn't just about 22 blokes chasing after a ball for 90 minutes, don't get that it's about passion, pride, community and belonging to a bigger whole.

The thing that I've come to realise lately though, for 90 minutes on a match day, it IS just a game! It's about the atmosphere, the elation, the despair, the oohs and ahhs (and arghs!) and more than anything, it's just something to do on a Saturday afternoon!!! It doesn't really matter if we are playing Swansea, Shrewsbury, Sc***horpe or, frankly, Solihull Moors; for that 90 minutes it's all the same from the stands and I'd be there regardless. So while it's disappointing to go down, I'm nowhere as near bothered about it as I would have been a few years ago. I'll still have a game to go to (or at the very least watch) next season.

I'm sure this will be greeted with howls of derision and accusations of apathy, but we waste so much time, energy and emotion debating the minutiae of the running of our club on here that at times the matches themselves become an afterthought.

A very wise woman once gave me some good advice - don't worry about things you can't control. We as fans kid ourselves if we think we have any significant influence on how the club is run, but at the end of the day we still churn out a lot of hot air and worn out keyboards while thinking that we do.

I think some people need to take a step back and think about why they came to love the Cobblers in the first place. If they can't reconnect with that, maybe, for their own wellbeing, they should have a bit of a break from things.


Title: Re: KELVIN THOMAS TIME TO GO.
Post by: MCHammer on May 02, 2021, 18:50:03 pm
I posted on here a few weeks ago asking what people don't like about the Trust but got no answers. So I'll make it personal, TCobb says "Personally don't want either anywhere near the running of the Club"  and Singcobb says in answer to Manwork saying we should back the Trust  "If that's the case we're fķcked"

I accept that everyone is entitled to an opinion, so can I politely ask what are the reasons for you to hold such views ?

I'll answer seeing as you have asked twice now.

Here's what I like about the Trust first though.  It's run by dedicated individuals who give up their own personal time for a cause they believe in.  We are all Cobblers fans.  I genuinely think deep down everyone involved is well meaning and wants the best for our club.  I think some board members listen and even if they don't agree engage well like Drilling for instance.  I think new board members like GPC will bring welcome new ideas and engagement as well which is a positive.

Here's why I don't like the Trust.

They have no power therefore relatively minor influence on anything to do with our football club.  They don't have a large enough membership and I don't believe they truly represent the views of the majority of supporters, whether members or not.

I would ask what have the trust done for me as a supporter over the last 5 years.  What noticeable difference have the trust made to my experience of attending matches at the Cobblers (when we could).  In what way am I better off as a supporter for the trust even existing.  This doesn't mean I don't think a trust or supporters group should exist I just think an effective and relevant one needs to exist.

I said several years ago on this board various things the trust should do to achieve relevance and to become more effective and all you receive in return is a "why don't you do it then" or "come and join the board and do something about it".  As if that's a suitable answer to give everyone.  Any criticism tends to be received by the trust in a confrontational manner and is simply dismissed as irrelevant moaning.

I work long hours, have two children, coach football 3 days a week and at the weekend so have no free time to join organisations such as this and yet because of that my opinion is somehow irrelevant or dismissed.

That's even aside from the fact that I don't agree with how the trust is run and is making decisions on what the supporters want without really engaging with their membership let alone the wider support base.  Whenever I ask in the past how the trust truly know they are doing what the fans want I just got batted away with comments regarding it's not how organisations work and you can't ask supporters every time you make a decision.  How ridiculous is that when the trust has been pushing big issues such as fan ownership as what "us fans" want without actually asking whether it really is!  Even the recent poll they ran which they are now claiming gives a mandate for change at the club was filled I think with only four, heavily loaded questions that were pretty much the equivalent of asking if Turkeys like Xmas.  I can't remember any of the exact wording but it was things like...Do you think the training and other infrastructure around the club should be invested in and improved.  What fan would say no to that???  I'm sure we will see in the future comments such as 97% of cobblers fans wanted improvement to the infrastructure.  Why not ask...do you want a billionaire owner to take over and lift the club to the premier league?  or Would you like the team to win the league next season?

I said years ago the trust need more members and that should be their number one priority along with engaging with those members new and old more often.  I do see posts being made on Twitter and the "new" website so I can see efforts are being made but it's clearly not being engaged with.  Rather than certain individuals involved or on the committee of the trust blaming the "sheep" fans for showing apathy you should be trying to understand why there is so much apathy and coming up with different ideas of how to change it.

I also said years ago that the trust in co-ordination with the club or the clubs community trust should lead a large fan related project that benefits the wider support base.  Show supporters you are capable of taking on a decent sized project and work for the benefit of all supporters.  This goes back to my earlier point of doing something I can benefit from.  Something that engages supporters and the fans can see what benefits a strong supporters trust can bring to them.  Eventually proving you could run a club in the long run or show how much better and fan friendly things could be if you were in charge.  The new Hotel End Project recently talked about is a prime example of something the trust shouldn't just be involved with it's something they should be leading.  Prove your value!

In addition I hate the way the trust make themselves come across anti-club.  Constantly making little snipes when they can.  You'll say your are not but you have to realise that if you attack the ownership to the general masses you come across as bitter and anti club.  There are some hard working indivduals at the club who do great jobs but I rarely see any praise or acknowledgment of this.  Let's go back to the meeting several years ago regarding fan ownership where some of the comments made and literature handed out was so self righteous in telling everyone how sh!t the club is run and how easy it would be to fix it and what they should change.  This being done while offering little or no information on how it could be achieved and the little was offered didn't stand up to even the most minor of scrutiny.

If the current owners really are as bad as they are being made out to be spell it out for me and others why things should change.  Give me a tangible alternative not some pie in the sky 50+1 owenership model, fan ownership or part owenership with a local businessman.  I've no great love for KT and his ownership but there are constant little snipes like the recent one about foreign ownership and trying to liken this to our current owners.  If bad stuff is going on behind the scenes tell us what it is.  If you can't prove anything that can convince the masses you are better off trying to be positive and prove there is another way.

The last for now, although I have plenty of other reasons, is I simply don't think fan ownership in any form currently is the right option unless there was a wholesale change in the way football is run.  It would simply place a lower ceiling over the club than exists already.  My personal opinion is it would limit the club to the bottom league permanently if not worse.  There wouldn't be a benefactor to put in £500k to break even or see us through massive impacts such as Covid has been.  I see the same people complain about private ownership that then complain about us not having a larger playing budget or buying a striker like Pish do.  I see the same people who think we should have a new training ground but offer not suggestion of how this is achieved and then complain about debt to our current owner rising on a yearly basis.  Yet if we were fan owned/partially owned we would have the same problems if not more restrictions on any of this being achieved.

It's the sheer arrogance of an organisation and it's commitee and more vocal supporters telling us how badly things are being done currently and what should be done but offering no practical solutions and offering no tangible proof they could do better.

Look at Twitter and witness some of the vocal minority that are aligned with the trust either on the committee or certainly closely involved and witness how they engage with the club's tweets and local media.  Look at the way they engage with supporters that don't agree with them.  The aim should be to take people with you on a journey not bully, harass them and call them sheep.  I wouldn't give them 10 seconds of my time let alone spend time debating with them in committee meetings.  I know what people will say.  Just because tehy are on the committee they are a supporter and entitled to their personal opinion.  Yes you are.  But......how can I trust people that conduct themselves this way to represent mine and other supporters views if they behave and feel the way they do and mine and other views are so different from their own.

That's it for now as this post is already massive and I'm sure I have bored most people.  I'm sure people will respond and I'll have more to add.  You did ask.   
   


Title: Re: KELVIN THOMAS TIME TO GO.
Post by: SadOldGit on May 02, 2021, 19:06:49 pm
No way am I reading all that.


Title: Re: KELVIN THOMAS TIME TO GO.
Post by: random on May 02, 2021, 19:09:07 pm
Not sure what to make of your post MC ! I will pick-up on just one thing. Please reply

You want information from the Trust then just dismiss it as pie in the sky. Why exactly is fan ownership with local businessman pie in the sky?

It is pie in the sky is because you are dealing with people who have broken promises time and time again, they have moved the goal posts so many times, failed to offer any development of the club, paid £1 to take control and then quoted 2 different prices to 2 different people with 2 days (and the price difference was double!). For whatever reason they don't want to sell. I can only assume they are waiting for another bunch of clueless (or criminal) investors to pay them another £6m down payment. (or its building up tax losses to off-set if they do get a land sale) Perhaps they are charging the club £1m + per year in consultancy fees.

Many have taken this stand with the Trust and just demand everything, then as soon as the Trust start to produce something, like the leaflet, it is instantly dismissed and ridiculed.

All the while our club suffers another year of slow death with owners only interested in the surrounding land and not the football club, yet they are not questioned or put under anywhere near pressure the Trust are.

Seems many are happy to blame the Trust for our failings (yes they certainly could have been better) rather than the owners





Title: Re: KELVIN THOMAS TIME TO GO.
Post by: BackOfTheNet on May 02, 2021, 19:13:11 pm
I'll answer seeing as you have asked twice now.

Here's what I like about the Trust first though.  It's run by dedicated individuals who give up their own personal time for a cause they believe in.  We are all Cobblers fans.  I genuinely think deep down everyone involved is well meaning and wants the best for our club.  I think some board members listen and even if they don't agree engage well like Drilling for instance.  I think new board members like GPC will bring welcome new ideas and engagement as well which is a positive.

Here's why I don't like the Trust.

They have no power therefore relatively minor influence on anything to do with our football club.  They don't have a large enough membership and I don't believe they truly represent the views of the majority of supporters, whether members or not.

I would ask what have the trust done for me as a supporter over the last 5 years.  What noticeable difference have the trust made to my experience of attending matches at the Cobblers (when we could).  In what way am I better off as a supporter for the trust even existing.  This doesn't mean I don't think a trust or supporters group should exist I just think an effective and relevant one needs to exist.

I said several years ago on this board various things the trust should do to achieve relevance and to become more effective and all you receive in return is a "why don't you do it then" or "come and join the board and do something about it".  As if that's a suitable answer to give everyone.  Any criticism tends to be received by the trust in a confrontational manner and is simply dismissed as irrelevant moaning.

I work long hours, have two children, coach football 3 days a week and at the weekend so have no free time to join organisations such as this and yet because of that my opinion is somehow irrelevant or dismissed.

That's even aside from the fact that I don't agree with how the trust is run and is making decisions on what the supporters want without really engaging with their membership let alone the wider support base.  Whenever I ask in the past how the trust truly know they are doing what the fans want I just got batted away with comments regarding it's not how organisations work and you can't ask supporters every time you make a decision.  How ridiculous is that when the trust has been pushing big issues such as fan ownership as what "us fans" want without actually asking whether it really is!  Even the recent poll they ran which they are now claiming gives a mandate for change at the club was filled I think with only four, heavily loaded questions that were pretty much the equivalent of asking if Turkeys like Xmas.  I can't remember any of the exact wording but it was things like...Do you think the training and other infrastructure around the club should be invested in and improved.  What fan would say no to that???  I'm sure we will see in the future comments such as 97% of cobblers fans wanted improvement to the infrastructure.  Why not ask...do you want a billionaire owner to take over and lift the club to the premier league?  or Would you like the team to win the league next season?

I said years ago the trust need more members and that should be their number one priority along with engaging with those members new and old more often.  I do see posts being made on Twitter and the "new" website so I can see efforts are being made but it's clearly not being engaged with.  Rather than certain individuals involved or on the committee of the trust blaming the "sheep" fans for showing apathy you should be trying to understand why there is so much apathy and coming up with different ideas of how to change it.

I also said years ago that the trust in co-ordination with the club or the clubs community trust should lead a large fan related project that benefits the wider support base.  Show supporters you are capable of taking on a decent sized project and work for the benefit of all supporters.  This goes back to my earlier point of doing something I can benefit from.  Something that engages supporters and the fans can see what benefits a strong supporters trust can bring to them.  Eventually proving you could run a club in the long run or show how much better and fan friendly things could be if you were in charge.  The new Hotel End Project recently talked about is a prime example of something the trust shouldn't just be involved with it's something they should be leading.  Prove your value!

In addition I hate the way the trust make themselves come across anti-club.  Constantly making little snipes when they can.  You'll say your are not but you have to realise that if you attack the ownership to the general masses you come across as bitter and anti club.  There are some hard working indivduals at the club who do great jobs but I rarely see any praise or acknowledgment of this.  Let's go back to the meeting several years ago regarding fan ownership where some of the comments made and literature handed out was so self righteous in telling everyone how sh!t the club is run and how easy it would be to fix it and what they should change.  This being done while offering little or no information on how it could be achieved and the little was offered didn't stand up to even the most minor of scrutiny.

If the current owners really are as bad as they are being made out to be spell it out for me and others why things should change.  Give me a tangible alternative not some pie in the sky 50+1 owenership model, fan ownership or part owenership with a local businessman.  I've no great love for KT and his ownership but there are constant little snipes like the recent one about foreign ownership and trying to liken this to our current owners.  If bad stuff is going on behind the scenes tell us what it is.  If you can't prove anything that can convince the masses you are better off trying to be positive and prove there is another way.

The last for now, although I have plenty of other reasons, is I simply don't think fan ownership in any form currently is the right option unless there was a wholesale change in the way football is run.  It would simply place a lower ceiling over the club than exists already.  My personal opinion is it would limit the club to the bottom league permanently if not worse.  There wouldn't be a benefactor to put in £500k to break even or see us through massive impacts such as Covid has been.  I see the same people complain about private ownership that then complain about us not having a larger playing budget or buying a striker like Pish do.  I see the same people who think we should have a new training ground but offer not suggestion of how this is achieved and then complain about debt to our current owner rising on a yearly basis.  Yet if we were fan owned/partially owned we would have the same problems if not more restrictions on any of this being achieved.

It's the sheer arrogance of an organisation and it's commitee and more vocal supporters telling us how badly things are being done currently and what should be done but offering no practical solutions and offering no tangible proof they could do better.

Look at Twitter and witness some of the vocal minority that are aligned with the trust either on the committee or certainly closely involved and witness how they engage with the club's tweets and local media.  Look at the way they engage with supporters that don't agree with them.  The aim should be to take people with you on a journey not bully, harass them and call them sheep.  I wouldn't give them 10 seconds of my time let alone spend time debating with them in committee meetings.  I know what people will say.  Just because tehy are on the committee they are a supporter and entitled to their personal opinion.  Yes you are.  But......how can I trust people that conduct themselves this way to represent mine and other supporters views if they behave and feel the way they do and mine and other views are so different from their own.

That's it for now as this post is already massive and I'm sure I have bored most people.  I'm sure people will respond and I'll have more to add.  You did ask.   
   

I don't disagree with any of that, to be honest.


Title: Re: KELVIN THOMAS TIME TO GO.
Post by: Carton Lid on May 02, 2021, 19:32:56 pm
Well it looks like people think that even if fans get together and pull in the same direction, they cant change anything. Oh hang on a minute, I've just watched the news from Old Trafford  :o
 
   


Title: Re: KELVIN THOMAS TIME TO GO.
Post by: random on May 02, 2021, 19:33:46 pm
In the past the Trust were very reluctant to criticise the club & DC and look what happened.

The Trust were there with the buckets but missed a massive massive opportunity to gain some control and build up membership. I suggested every donation included an offer of membership too but was dismissed due to 'membership rules'

KT has come in, refused to pay back £10k, withdrawn the board seat, said our club is not worth developing, failed to deliver on agreements, taken £6m from Chinese investor according to a Telegraph journalist, has not even kept the ground in decent condition, set-up their own supporter panel in direct conflict with the Trust, refused to engage with them UNTIL KT thought they might help with NBC, so no I don't blame them for not being overly supportive.

IT IS CLEAR KT HAS NO INTEREST IN YOUR FOOTBALL CLUB PEOPLE, he is the one the focus should be on.

Yes of course the club does a lot in the community, as does every club. But we have just got relegated with the lowest no of goals, whilst other smaller clubs like Accrington, Fleetwood, Burton, Wimbledon & MK plus similar size ones like Crewe, Lincoln, Sh*tboro, Gillingham and Shrewsbury all have done better than us AGAIN.

A heard (indirectly) from a local legend that the core of the club is very poor and has been for many many years. Until that changes then nothing really will.

I would love to hear from those at the club, James Whiting, Nick (secretary), Avril (stadium manager) Caroline Lucy (Commercial Manager), and Gareth (Head of media), all have been in their posts for many many years, do they have any answers? Surely they know better than anyone? or are they too entrenched, too close, accepted too much mediocrity ?

Or is solely the playing side?  the coaches, the managers, the players?

If we do so much in the community, why is there so much destain and apathy for our club from our own supporters, why is our customer base not growing in a time that has seen the population within the area increase by 50% or more over the last 20 years


Title: Re: KELVIN THOMAS TIME TO GO.
Post by: MCHammer on May 02, 2021, 19:59:43 pm
Not sure what to make of your post MC ! I will pick-up on just one thing. Please reply

You want information from the Trust then just dismiss it as pie in the sky. Why exactly is fan ownership with local businessman pie in the sky?

It is pie in the sky is because you are dealing with people who have broken promises time and time again, they have moved the goal posts so many times, failed to offer any development of the club, paid £1 to take control and then quoted 2 different prices to 2 different people with 2 days (and the price difference was double!). For whatever reason they don't want to sell. I can only assume they are waiting for another bunch of clueless (or criminal) investors to pay them another £6m down payment. (or its building up tax losses to off-set if they do get a land sale) Perhaps they are charging the club £1m + per year in consultancy fees.

Many have taken this stand with the Trust and just demand everything, then as soon as the Trust start to produce something, like the leaflet, it is instantly dismissed and ridiculed.

All the while our club suffers another year of slow death with owners only interested in the surrounding land and not the football club, yet they are not questioned or put under anywhere near pressure the Trust are.

Seems many are happy to blame the Trust for our failings (yes they certainly could have been better) rather than the owners


The question I was asked is what I don't like about the trust.  Conflating this with our ownership and current situation on and off the field seems to be common practice when any purely trust criticism is given.  Showing me how sh1t the club is somehow makes my points about the trust irrelevant?

In response to your question regarding the fan ownership model being pie in the sky.  I've explained that already in that any fan ownership of any model is massively limited when most other clubs are not playing by the same rules.  A club run under a strict break even policy with limited financial flexibility is always going to find things tougher than one that has owners with deep pockets.  Not saying it's fair or right it's a fact of life that the current structure of football allows.

In addition any proposals from the trust regarding a fan ownership model have had no detail whatsoever.  Hence again why I say pie in the sky.  It's a dream with no substance behind it.  How would it work.  Who are these local businessmen desperate to be involved.  What would it mean for the club financially in the short term.  I've not even seen anything of even high level detail about how it would work and why I should support it.  But I've said this already in my original post.


Title: Re: KELVIN THOMAS TIME TO GO.
Post by: Terryfenwickatemyhamster on May 02, 2021, 20:31:39 pm
Well it looks like people think that even if fans get together and pull in the same direction, they cant change anything. Oh hang on a minute, I've just watched the news from Old Trafford  :o
 
   

Well... You can report back to your mates on the board, that itís time they organised something then.


Title: Re: KELVIN THOMAS TIME TO GO.
Post by: tcobb on May 02, 2021, 20:40:50 pm
In response to Carton Lid, McHammer sums up a lot of my feelings towards the Trust. My biggest gripe is they seem to think the "Membership" is the be all and end all, not taking into consideration the wider support base. A fair few years ago, on the old forum, when asked by people on the Trust for ideas, i put forward the idea of the fans being more involved in fund raising for ground improvements, the idea was laughed and dismissed as a ridiculous suggestion. A few years ago i made some further ideas available, which, i was told would be forwarded to the Trust and they would get back to me, still waiting !!!
They seemed to give DC a free hand when it came to signing off the East Stand debacle. Last but not least, when a certain lawyer wanted to take over the club, the Trust balloted the membership to see the fans views, before the votes had been counted the Trust announced in the local media, that they were against the deal, democratic really ?
I probably could go on ,but like i say i think McHammer covers it better than me.


Title: Re: KELVIN THOMAS TIME TO GO.
Post by: singcobb on May 02, 2021, 21:23:51 pm
In response to Carton Lid, McHammer sums up a lot of my feelings towards the Trust. My biggest gripe is they seem to think the "Membership" is the be all and end all, not taking into consideration the wider support base. A fair few years ago, on the old forum, when asked by people on the Trust for ideas, i put forward the idea of the fans being more involved in fund raising for ground improvements, the idea was laughed and dismissed as a ridiculous suggestion. A few years ago i made some further ideas available, which, i was told would be forwarded to the Trust and they would get back to me, still waiting !!!
They seemed to give DC a free hand when it came to signing off the East Stand debacle. Last but not least, when a certain lawyer wanted to take over the club, the Trust balloted the membership to see the fans views, before the votes had been counted the Trust announced in the local media, that they were against the deal, democratic really ?
I probably could go on ,but like i say i think McHammer covers it better than me.

For me their complicity in this destroyed any respect I had for The Trust.


Title: Re: KELVIN THOMAS TIME TO GO.
Post by: SadOldGit on May 02, 2021, 21:34:06 pm
For me their complicity in this destroyed any respect I had for The Trust.

So history tells you they are not worth trusting (😆) even though they are a completely different set of people in a completely different era. Perhaps I should give Dr Feelgood another listen?


Title: Re: KELVIN THOMAS TIME TO GO.
Post by: singcobb on May 02, 2021, 21:44:19 pm
Leopards and spots


Title: Re: KELVIN THOMAS TIME TO GO.
Post by: GrangeParkCobbler on May 02, 2021, 21:47:15 pm


Title: Re: KELVIN THOMAS TIME TO GO.
Post by: Terryfenwickatemyhamster on May 02, 2021, 22:15:42 pm
Charming!

😀😀 That open mind is starting to slowly close...


Title: Re: KELVIN THOMAS TIME TO GO.
Post by: SadOldGit on May 02, 2021, 22:20:06 pm
Leopards and spots

Is that it? Oh dear, we thought you were a rational chap/ette.


Title: Re: KELVIN THOMAS TIME TO GO.
Post by: Melbourne Cobbler on May 02, 2021, 22:44:42 pm
MCH has covered much if not all of my feelings too. People can defend the Trust and people can attack it but what is undeniable is that if their are this many members and others saying the same thing then the Trust has to listen and change? If it doesnít it will remain divisive and to some degree neuter itself IMO.

Banging the same drum I always have the Trust has 1 primary function, and that is to represent its members and the wider fan base? If this many members have an issue then why are they not dealing with it head on and entering into a process to evaluate how it is run and its decision making process? I feel there is a suspicion that the Trust is being run so that some can further their own agendas and this needs to be stamped on and addressed?

If I were running the Trust I would have 2 priorities. The first would be to galvanise the support into a unified voice and fully engage with the membership to ensure the Trust fully complied with its wishes. This would be to the extent that I would carry out its wishes whether I agreed with them or not? The second would be to attempt to unify the supporters groups from all around the leagues into a single union. Then real pressure could be brought against the football authorities to change legislation into how football is run and the like? Particularly if each season you joined the union whos division you happened to be in? Believe me if the Trust could pull that off they would grow some teeth? But they must do anything with the full and consistent endorsement of the membership?

The facts are these, the Trust can carry on the way itís going and remain with the level of influence it has now? Or it can embark on a radical process of change and perhaps become the organisation we all hope it can be? They key word in that last sentence is ďallĒ.


Title: Re: KELVIN THOMAS TIME TO GO.
Post by: Carton Lid on May 03, 2021, 00:24:50 am
For me their complicity in this destroyed any respect I had for The Trust.
You do know that David Jackson and Barry Handcock were also board members at this time, so do you hold them in similar disdain ?


Title: Re: KELVIN THOMAS TIME TO GO.
Post by: Melbourne Cobbler on May 03, 2021, 05:07:41 am
Well it looks like people think that even if fans get together and pull in the same direction, they cant change anything. Oh hang on a minute, I've just watched the news from Old Trafford  :o
 
   
Who did the people at Old Trafford represent and what exactly have they achieved?

My understanding is that the scenes of violence and mayhem have been widely condemned by supporters groups? The danger is that the law abiding majority may be reluctant to align themselves with the actions taken and any momentum may be put in jeopardy or lost? This is the problem when individuals take matters into their own hands? Whilst they may be acting on behalf of the majority, they also may not? The point is they wouldn't have the first damn clue whether they do or not and that for me is unacceptable, that is before you even get to the unlawful behaviour?

I am sure there are many that would be gloating at the actions of the baying mob and the power they exerted in getting the game called off, as they have without question won this battle? However, with police seriously injured and the whole integrity of sections of Manchester United supporters brought into question they may well have lost or at the very least compromised their position in the war as a result of their actions? All this does for me is emphasise the fact that any actions taken should be only with the majority consensus of the supporters groups, especially if those actions are being carried out by what's reported to be 200 thugs in the name of Manchester United supporters? Obtain the support of the majority consensus or weaken your position and risk everything that you are working for is the message I am getting?

If you believe this is an incident to be applauded and a desirable outcome for Manchester United supporters then that's your opinion, but I for one have to question it? Time will tell? 


Title: Re: KELVIN THOMAS TIME TO GO.
Post by: Another Pedj on May 03, 2021, 05:43:28 am
Not sure what to make of your post MC ! I will pick-up on just one thing. Please reply

You want information from the Trust then just dismiss it as pie in the sky. Why exactly is fan ownership with local businessman pie in the sky?

It is pie in the sky is because you are dealing with people who have broken promises time and time again, they have moved the goal posts so many times, failed to offer any development of the club, paid £1 to take control and then quoted 2 different prices to 2 different people with 2 days (and the price difference was double!). For whatever reason they don't want to sell. I can only assume they are waiting for another bunch of clueless (or criminal) investors to pay them another £6m down payment. (or its building up tax losses to off-set if they do get a land sale) Perhaps they are charging the club £1m + per year in consultancy fees.

Many have taken this stand with the Trust and just demand everything, then as soon as the Trust start to produce something, like the leaflet, it is instantly dismissed and ridiculed.

All the while our club suffers another year of slow death with owners only interested in the surrounding land and not the football club, yet they are not questioned or put under anywhere near pressure the Trust are.

Seems many are happy to blame the Trust for our failings (yes they certainly could have been better) rather than the owners




[/quote
Ascertaining how much they are taking our shouldn't be difficult.it should be broken down in the Accounts as either Directors emoluments or as a related party transaction.


Title: Re: KELVIN THOMAS TIME TO GO.
Post by: Melbourne Cobbler on May 03, 2021, 06:31:46 am
Results of the Trust survey

Infrastructure the Conversation's big talking point!

https://www.ntfctrust.co.uk/news/article/infrastructure-the-conversations-big-talking-point


Title: Re: KELVIN THOMAS TIME TO GO.
Post by: St Edmundsbury Cobbler on May 03, 2021, 06:43:32 am
Results of the Trust survey

Infrastructure the Conversation's big talking point!

https://www.ntfctrust.co.uk/news/article/infrastructure-the-conversations-big-talking-point


"This report is being shared with the Football Supporters Association and also NTFC chairman Kelvin Thomas and chief executive James Whiting."

And then what?


Title: Re: KELVIN THOMAS TIME TO GO.
Post by: BackOfTheNet on May 03, 2021, 07:08:06 am
Results of the Trust survey

Infrastructure the Conversation's big talking point!

https://www.ntfctrust.co.uk/news/article/infrastructure-the-conversations-big-talking-point


I hadn't seen that. Dear oh dear... if you've surveyed nearly 900 people then you should really report back some actual stats on what was said (i.e. 55% of respondents felt...while 40% felt the opposite with 5% not expressing an opinion). If you merely report back your interpretation of the results then the survey means nothing because, as we've proved time and again on this site, stats can be read one way by one person and entirely a different way by another. Without backing your interpretation with hard figures that allow others to evaluate your interpretation, then the results carry no weight whatsoever!

As for this bit about the ESL:

Quote
The consensus was that if the big six wanted to seek vast fortunes in a continental league then let them get on with it!

Christ. Did people really say that? We don't exist in splendid isolation and the wider football infrastructure effects us indirectly if not directly. If most of our fans are so naive and insular (not my team, not my problem, guv!) they really feel this way (not to mention fan's groups throwing this opinion out there in such a flippant and dismissive manner) then it's further evidence they shouldn't be anywhere near running a football club.


Title: Re: KELVIN THOMAS TIME TO GO.
Post by: Deepcut Cobbler on May 03, 2021, 07:42:08 am
Results of the Trust survey

Infrastructure the Conversation's big talking point!

https://www.ntfctrust.co.uk/news/article/infrastructure-the-conversations-big-talking-point


Which Trust members were surveyed for either of these?  ???


Title: Re: KELVIN THOMAS TIME TO GO.
Post by: Melbourne Cobbler on May 03, 2021, 07:56:41 am
Which Trust members were surveyed for either of these?  ???
I happened to go on the website so responded myself. However, as stated earlier there are no actual figures published so itís difficult to gauge the strength of feeling, or how the responses have been interpreted? This is particularly relevant as people were given options regarding the strength of feeling i.e. agree, strongly agree etc when answering the survey? I think it would be beneficial if the Trust publish the full results, perhaps they intend to?


Title: Re: KELVIN THOMAS TIME TO GO.
Post by: Melbourne Cobbler on May 03, 2021, 08:15:08 am
To be honest if the Trust wanted me to sort this out for them I could with my IT boffs. To set up a monthly email to all members and a facility to respond would cost about $900 AUD as a one off fee, so about £450. It needs a bit of management at the backend monthly which someone at the Trust could be trained to do and this whole communication issue could be sorted? Itís really not difficult, let me know GPC/Drilling and Iíll co-ordinate the whole thing?


Title: Re: KELVIN THOMAS TIME TO GO.
Post by: Deepcut Cobbler on May 03, 2021, 09:03:42 am
https://www.ntfctrust.co.uk/news/article/public-vote-backs-football-reform

https://www.ntfctrust.co.uk/news/article/infrastructure-the-conversations-big-talking-point

https://www.surveymonkey.co.uk/r/HFYNDHJ


Title: Re: KELVIN THOMAS TIME TO GO.
Post by: St Edmundsbury Cobbler on May 03, 2021, 09:29:29 am
https://www.ntfctrust.co.uk/news/article/public-vote-backs-football-reform

https://www.ntfctrust.co.uk/news/article/infrastructure-the-conversations-big-talking-point

https://www.surveymonkey.co.uk/r/HFYNDHJ

All very interesting.

And then what will happen?


Title: Re: KELVIN THOMAS TIME TO GO.
Post by: Terryfenwickatemyhamster on May 03, 2021, 09:41:30 am
The Trust will not engage with this forum, even though it has a sizeable membership. The Hotel End website was mentioned at most board meetings and was considered as anti Trust. I would argue, that it has been hugely supportive of the Trust, allowing it free access to publicity, actually pinning its topics at the top of the page for as long back as I can recall. However, some on here, and it is representative of the support base, do exercise their right to question certain aspects of the Trusts direction. By no means is that an attack on the individual members of the board. But has been seen as so, due to certain sensitivities within that committee.

The Trust has limped along for some time now. Whilst it has a group of genuinely well intended people, the lions share of any activity is confined to just a few people. That is not necessarily by design, it more down to the fact that a lot of the committee are not all that motivated. Those that do put in the main share of work have become very protective of their stance. IMO this has lead to a narrowing of the arteries, of what was once a very dynamic group.

For me there were critical points, where the Trust could have shown its teeth, leading to an increase in respect from the supporters. But it went on to be almost an investigative think tank, trying desperately to accrue information from various sources, only to then meet over and over again to mull over what to do with it. It has lost all spontaneity. At one point it knocked out fantastic sound bites in keeping with the general thoughts of the support, turning on a sixpence. It reflected the ups and downs of fans. Now, it has the turning circle of an ocean liner, expecting supporters to wait for weeks, sometimes months, for another stilted Trust statement to be released. Only for it to be another request for the meek to inherit the earth.

One of biggest nails in the coffin had to be the ill fated meeting at the Moat House, regarding fan ownership. What should have been a rallying call, turned out to be a dirge. Whilst the speakers were nice people, the whole thing was a series grey and vanilla speeches, plus the (not to mention) leaflets. It was very poorly attended. But for those who were there, it offered no inspiration. It cried out for someone from the Trust to issue a call to arms. But instead it was never followed up and just frittered out like a two penny firework on a wet night.

The Trust has lost what supporters are about. We donít respond to multiple page reports, or thought provoking speculation. We respond to charismatic, energetic individuals, whoís hearts are on their sleeves when it comes to our club. That is what our Trust was found on. For that model to survive as an integral part of the supporters psyche. It has to incorporate dynamism and passion. Without that, it will exist as it does, barely afloat and on life support.


Title: Re: KELVIN THOMAS TIME TO GO.
Post by: Melbourne Cobbler on May 03, 2021, 09:49:54 am
How about we draw a line under the past and put our best foot forward for the sake of the future of the club? Iím game and I reckon everyone else would be too. This forum and the Trust is chockablock full of decent people who care about the club? All that is needed is for people to put their personal feelings and agendas to one side and work for the collective decision? It cant be that hard surely. The tools are all available, whether you use the ones offered or elsewhere, they are inexpensive, quick and simple to use?


Title: Re: KELVIN THOMAS TIME TO GO.
Post by: 1971cobbler on May 03, 2021, 10:38:45 am
To backtrack a bit, to earlier comments about attracting 4000 people to put forward £1000 for a takeover, how about looking towards a Trust led crowdfunding type exercise to secure land and build a training base?

Trust owned, rented to NTFC on a peppercorn basis, with grounds keeping and agreed levels of maintenance also the club's responsibilities?

The fans then have contributed an infrastructure upgrade, allowing for (hopefully) better players and performance levels, and the owners (hopefully) then concentrate on stadium matters.

I have no idea of the cost if I am honest, but wouldn't have thought that it would get anywhere near to 4 million?


Title: Re: KELVIN THOMAS TIME TO GO.
Post by: Jim Hall Fixit on May 03, 2021, 11:51:10 am
How about we draw a line under the past and put our best foot forward for the sake of the future of the club? Iím game and I reckon everyone else would be too. This forum and the Trust is chockablock full of decent people who care about the club? All that is needed is for people to put their personal feelings and agendas to one side and work for the collective decision? It cant be that hard surely. The tools are all available, whether you use the ones offered or elsewhere, they are inexpensive, quick and simple to use?

Spot on Melly


Title: Re: KELVIN THOMAS TIME TO GO.
Post by: Jim Hall Fixit on May 03, 2021, 11:52:35 am
To backtrack a bit, to earlier comments about attracting 4000 people to put forward £1000 for a takeover, how about looking towards a Trust led crowdfunding type exercise to secure land and build a training base?

Trust owned, rented to NTFC on a peppercorn basis, with grounds keeping and agreed levels of maintenance also the club's responsibilities?

The fans then have contributed an infrastructure upgrade, allowing for (hopefully) better players and performance levels, and the owners (hopefully) then concentrate on stadium matters.

I have no idea of the cost if I am honest, but wouldn't have thought that it would get anywhere near to 4 million?

Sound idea. And a constructive suggestion not just a personal dig or an impossible dream. That said, Iím guessing ground and facilities may well be in the millions!!?


Title: Re: KELVIN THOMAS TIME TO GO.
Post by: Manwork04 on May 03, 2021, 11:57:51 am
How about we draw a line under the past and put our best foot forward for the sake of the future of the club? Iím game and I reckon everyone else would be too. This forum and the Trust is chockablock full of decent people who care about the club? All that is needed is for people to put their personal feelings and agendas to one side and work for the collective decision? It cant be that hard surely. The tools are all available, whether you use the ones offered or elsewhere, they are inexpensive, quick and simple to use?
Excellent idea, we the fans need to come together. We all want the best for NTFC but we need a unified voice.
Letís bury our differences and move forward.


Title: Re: KELVIN THOMAS TIME TO GO.
Post by: SadOldGit on May 03, 2021, 12:04:37 pm
To backtrack a bit, to earlier comments about attracting 4000 people to put forward £1000 for a takeover, how about looking towards a Trust led crowdfunding type exercise to secure land and build a training base?

Trust owned, rented to NTFC on a peppercorn basis, with grounds keeping and agreed levels of maintenance also the club's responsibilities?

The fans then have contributed an infrastructure upgrade, allowing for (hopefully) better players and performance levels, and the owners (hopefully) then concentrate on stadium matters.

I have no idea of the cost if I am honest, but wouldn't have thought that it would get anywhere near to 4 million?

On the surface a brilliant idea, I think the problem however is that by the nature of the beast it is not inconceivable that the club and trust could fall out and this facility could become problematic.


Title: Re: KELVIN THOMAS TIME TO GO.
Post by: Carton Lid on May 03, 2021, 12:27:27 pm
Excellent idea, we the fans need to come together. We all want the best for NTFC but we need a unified voice.
Letís bury our differences and move forward.
Agree 100%


Title: Re: KELVIN THOMAS TIME TO GO.
Post by: Steve Massive Massey on May 03, 2021, 14:32:27 pm
If there was a clear tangible project that could be funded by fans, lets say something crazy like building a stand? I would put a grand in.

As mentioned there are a myriad of ways in which people can donate now. If there was an online totaliser and some impetus with such a clear target who knows how much we might find lurking behind claret sofas around the world?

We've been buggered around for long enough now, there will be some very red faces if we raise it ourselves.

All the news is about fan power. £4m is peanuts.

Dig deep boys.


Title: Re: KELVIN THOMAS TIME TO GO.
Post by: CJ on May 03, 2021, 14:56:54 pm
I wonder what percentage of fans would currently prefer to follow a Phoenix club under fan/local ownership, and how low KT/DB will need to take us before that percentage becomes acceptable to the majority?


Title: Re: KELVIN THOMAS TIME TO GO.
Post by: Tabasco Kid on May 03, 2021, 15:01:21 pm

£4m is peanuts.
Best of luck with that crusade.

 



Title: Re: KELVIN THOMAS TIME TO GO.
Post by: Terryfenwickatemyhamster on May 03, 2021, 15:24:25 pm
How about we draw a line under the past and put our best foot forward for the sake of the future of the club? Iím game and I reckon everyone else would be too. This forum and the Trust is chockablock full of decent people who care about the club? All that is needed is for people to put their personal feelings and agendas to one side and work for the collective decision? It cant be that hard surely. The tools are all available, whether you use the ones offered or elsewhere, they are inexpensive, quick and simple to use?

Here here.


Title: Re: KELVIN THOMAS TIME TO GO.
Post by: Terryfenwickatemyhamster on May 03, 2021, 15:25:06 pm
Here here. But can I just say ........  8) :P


Title: Re: KELVIN THOMAS TIME TO GO.
Post by: GrangeParkCobbler on May 03, 2021, 15:33:36 pm
On the surface a brilliant idea, I think the problem however is that by the nature of the beast it is not inconceivable that the club and trust could fall out and this facility could become problematic.

For me, this is the problem! Kelvin does not want fan participation in the financial sense.....a fund raising scheme to purchase shares in the club for example is a complete non-starter. So its about how we raise funds and what are we actually raising them for?

A couple of weeks ago there was a scheme being talked about where we would provide safe standing at the North End of the ground......but what would happen if that were to draw fans out of the other areas (and thereby actually reducing revenue), would the chairman go for it? Would it be a standalone scheme with some sort of payment to the club?

Whatever is proposed, KT wants to be in control of it.....unless the aim is to actually raise enough money to buy him out.....and that will only happen if he wants to leave! Its been quite a few years since KT said he was open to offers for extra investment by outside parties.....yet nothing has come to fruition. Why is this? Why is nobody willing to buy into Kelvins plans?


Title: Re: KELVIN THOMAS TIME TO GO.
Post by: singcobb on May 03, 2021, 15:49:46 pm
For me, this is the problem! Kelvin does not want fan participation in the financial sense.....a fund raising scheme to purchase shares in the club for example is a complete non-starter. So its about how we raise funds and what are we actually raising them for?

A couple of weeks ago there was a scheme being talked about where we would provide safe standing at the North End of the ground......but what would happen if that were to draw fans out of the other areas (and thereby actually reducing revenue), would the chairman go for it? Would it be a standalone scheme with some sort of payment to the club?

Whatever is proposed, KT wants to be in control of it.....unless the aim is to actually raise enough money to buy him out.....and that will only happen if he wants to leave! Its been quite a few years since KT said he was open to offers for extra investment by outside parties.....yet nothing has come to fruition. Why is this? Why is nobody willing to buy into Kelvins plans?


One big problem about owning shares is that if other shareholders stump up a cash injection to keep the club running you have to match the amount based on the percentage of your shareholding, if you don't your shareholding can be diluted by the majority shareholders.


Title: Re: KELVIN THOMAS TIME TO GO.
Post by: GrangeParkCobbler on May 03, 2021, 16:03:10 pm

One big problem about owning shares is that if other shareholders stump up a cash injection to keep the club running you have to match the amount based on the percentage of your shareholding, if you don't your shareholding can be diluted by the majority shareholders.

And I guess this is what happened, the Trust still own the same number of £1 Ordinary shares in the club that they have done for years yet their percentage holding of the club has dropped from near 20% (if I remember rightly) to less than 3%, whilst Fantastical, Northampton Town Ventures, Belle-de-Jour and any other made up company you can name hold the lions share.....

Simple maths.....if the owners are £6-£7m in, and control 85% of the overall shareholding, then its going to take over £4m to become majority shareholders...... didn't the Chinese pay over £4m for 60%?


Title: Re: KELVIN THOMAS TIME TO GO.
Post by: Carton Lid on May 03, 2021, 16:08:35 pm
Would it be a standalone scheme with some sort of payment to the club?

That went well the last time !  :)


Title: Re: KELVIN THOMAS TIME TO GO.
Post by: GrangeParkCobbler on May 03, 2021, 16:30:22 pm
That went well the last time !  :)

Didn't it just!  :(


Title: Re: KELVIN THOMAS TIME TO GO.
Post by: Carton Lid on May 03, 2021, 19:42:17 pm
The Trust will not engage with this forum, even though it has a sizeable membership. The Hotel End website was mentioned at most board meetings and was considered as anti Trust. By no means is that an attack on the individual members of the board. But has been seen as so, due to certain sensitivities within that committee.

The Trust has limped along for some time now. Whilst it has a group of genuinely well intended people, the lions share of any activity is confined to just a few people. That is not necessarily by design, it more down to the fact that a lot of the committee are not all that motivated. Those that do put in the main share of work have become very protective of their stance. IMO this has lead to a narrowing of the arteries, of what was once a very dynamic group.
One of biggest nails in the coffin had to be the ill fated meeting at the Moat House, regarding fan ownership. What should have been a rallying call, turned out to be a dirge. Whilst the speakers were nice people, the whole thing was a series grey and vanilla speeches. It was very poorly attended. But for those who were there, it offered no inspiration. It cried out for someone from the Trust to issue a call to arms.

The Trust has lost what supporters are about. We donít respond to multiple page reports, or thought provoking speculation. We respond to charismatic, energetic individuals, whoís hearts are on their sleeves when it comes to our club. That is what our Trust was found on. For that model to survive as an integral part of the supporters psyche. It has to incorporate dynamism and passion. Without that, it will exist as it does, barely afloat and on life support.
Just to clear up a couple of points for you Nigel. It must be getting on for 5 YEARS since you attended a board meeting, so to say that "The Hotel End" is considered anti Trust and that  "a lot of the committee are not all that motivated" is quite a statement to make when you have no evidence to back it up, apart from your own 5 year old views.
             Further more you say that the meeting at the Moat House was "poorly attended" when in fact the room was full and extra chairs were bought in for people to sit in the adjoining room.
     ???
   


Title: Re: KELVIN THOMAS TIME TO GO.
Post by: Deepcut Cobbler on May 03, 2021, 20:51:19 pm
Just to clear up a couple of points for you Nigel. It must be getting on for 5 YEARS since you attended a board meeting, so to say that "The Hotel End" is considered anti Trust and that  "a lot of the committee are not all that motivated" is quite a statement to make when you have no evidence to back it up, apart from your own 5 year old views.
             Further more you say that the meeting at the Moat House was "poorly attended" when in fact the room was full and extra chairs were bought in for people to sit in the adjoining room.
     ???
   

I'd heard that most of those thought that they had gate crashed a wedding ceremony/reception?   ;D ;)


Title: Re: KELVIN THOMAS TIME TO GO.
Post by: Melbourne Cobbler on May 03, 2021, 22:12:15 pm
I'd heard that most of those thought that they had gate crashed a wedding ceremony/reception?   ;D ;)
Thereís a hierarchy at those doís. Cherished loved ones and friends on the top table. Close friends and relatives just in front, acquaintances and afterthoughts at the back (room fillers as they are known in the wedding game). The only problem with being one of them is you get last crack at the wedding list and the cheap stuffs gone. Using that analogy you donít want to be one they brought the chairs in for?


Title: Re: KELVIN THOMAS TIME TO GO.
Post by: Terryfenwickatemyhamster on May 04, 2021, 07:35:44 am
Just to clear up a couple of points for you Nigel. It must be getting on for 5 YEARS since you attended a board meeting, so to say that "The Hotel End" is considered anti Trust and that  "a lot of the committee are not all that motivated" is quite a statement to make when you have no evidence to back it up, apart from your own 5 year old views.
             Further more you say that the meeting at the Moat House was "poorly attended" when in fact the room was full and extra chairs were bought in for people to sit in the adjoining room.
     ???
   

I have attended several meetings since then Roger. In the most recent one I attended, this site was mentioned on three occasions. But readily admit that is still TWO years ago. However, there is still no presence from the Trust board on here, and has not been for some years.

The meeting at the Moat House, excluding guests and Trust board members attracted I would say optimistically 100 + I would say sub 2% of the support. The meeting was held in the two side rooms, usually reserved for small meetings. There was few chairs outside occupied by late arrivals, whilst some spaces remained in the main room. Neither of the two conference rooms were used or booked.



Title: Re: KELVIN THOMAS TIME TO GO.
Post by: Carton Lid on May 04, 2021, 08:39:16 am
I have attended several meetings since then Roger. In the most recent one I attended, this site was mentioned on three occasions. But readily admit that is still TWO years ago. However, there is still no presence from the Trust board on here, and has not been for some years.

The meeting at the Moat House, excluding guests and Trust board members attracted I would say optimistically 100 + I would say sub 2% of the support. The meeting was held in the two side rooms, usually reserved for small meetings. There was few chairs outside occupied by late arrivals, whilst some spaces remained in the main room. Neither of the two conference rooms were used or booked.
You attended a forum with NBC a couple of years ago but NO board meetings for nearly 5 years, and that is according to the secretary. No one has claimed that there as been a presence from the Trust board on here.
    Why not exclude a few more groups from the meeting and, eventually, you could get it down to "poorly attended" I sat in the foyer because there was no room in the main room. 
Again you are having a dig and using things from YEARS AGO to back it up
     You acknowledge that the only way forward is if all the fans are together ,yet you take EVERY opportunity to discourage people from joining the only fan group we have by bringing up perceived faults from years ago. 
     We could get a new democratic fans group, which everyone joins, instead of the Trust but it would only be copying something which already exists so why not encourage people to join the existing group and re mould it to what the majority wants to do ?


Title: Re: KELVIN THOMAS TIME TO GO.
Post by: SadOldGit on May 04, 2021, 08:51:00 am
I have attended several meetings since then Roger. In the most recent one I attended, this site was mentioned on three occasions. But readily admit that is still TWO years ago. However, there is still no presence from the Trust board on here, and has not been for some years.

The meeting at the Moat House, excluding guests and Trust board members attracted I would say optimistically 100 + I would say sub 2% of the support. The meeting was held in the two side rooms, usually reserved for small meetings. There was few chairs outside occupied by late arrivals, whilst some spaces remained in the main room. Neither of the two conference rooms were used or booked.



It is clear now you hold a grudge and you are more concerned with bitching at the Trust than progressing the club.


Title: Re: KELVIN THOMAS TIME TO GO.
Post by: Terryfenwickatemyhamster on May 04, 2021, 09:28:25 am
You attended a forum with NBC a couple of years ago but NO board meetings for nearly 5 years, and that is according to the secretary. No one has claimed that there as been a presence from the Trust board on here.
    Why not exclude a few more groups from the meeting and, eventually, you could get it down to "poorly attended" I sat in the foyer because there was no room in the main room. 
Again you are having a dig and using things from YEARS AGO to back it up
     You acknowledge that the only way forward is if all the fans are together ,yet you take EVERY opportunity to discourage people from joining the only fan group we have by bringing up perceived faults from years ago. 
     We could get a new democratic fans group, which everyone joins, instead of the Trust but it would only be copying something which already exists so why not encourage people to join the existing group and re mould it to what the majority wants to do ?

Roger... I also attended another meeting not a million miles from that date. I sat right behind John, and spoke a few times, all friendly exchanges. I was opposite Kev, Drilling to my right. But that is irrelevant. And a distraction from my point.

As for my information on the Trust being from years ago, letís put that to the test. Name one thing that has changed in the Trust boards perspective since I was on the board? At that time they were all for fan ownership. In fact it was muted back when Ant Collett was chair. So being as that is the only issue I have, whatís your point??

As for me ďacknowledging that the only way forward is if all the fans are togetherĒ. Damn right I do Roger. Yet not one single Trust member has been offered the chance to vote. If you are assuming that ďall the fans togetherĒ means agreeing with the Trust board, then you are living in cloud cuckoo land. That absolutely can and will happen, if a more inclusive, and informative model gets implemented.

Iíd love a world where we all hold hands and skip to Sixfields, then oust the meanies who run the club. But unlike some, I am realistic about the shape of modern football and modern business. The Trust needs a presence on all forums, they need to be media savvy and in the limelight. Whether you take that as a criticism or not, I am only stating the obvious. No amount of meetings held in a poorly lit working menís clubs, will attract new blood. Nobody wants the wheel tappers and shunters club anymore. They want a vibrant, media savvy, fast turning supporters group, with a modern colourful website, updated regularly, that is in constant touch with its supporters. If thatís the sort of language that you think destroys the Trust, then Iím sorry. Maybe you're right, itís my fault that the Trust has failed to increase its membership for goodness knows how many years now 🙄🙄🙄

Just try to see what I am saying mate. It is a few quick fixes. The Trust board is not the Trust. The Trust should be an organic representation of the supporters. For that to happen, the board has to wake up and engage with it members and the wider support base.

If thatís anti Trust, I donít know what to say.



Title: Re: KELVIN THOMAS TIME TO GO.
Post by: GrangeParkCobbler on May 04, 2021, 09:39:32 am
Ok, Iíve been a regular on this board for a good number of years now, and have recently joined the Trust board....what do you want me to do?


Title: Re: KELVIN THOMAS TIME TO GO.
Post by: cobblertone on May 04, 2021, 09:54:59 am
GPC...you are the most 'visible' member of the Trust that has crossed my path and a well known poster on this board, which must be the most active fans forum we have access to.

As a common long standing fan with no links (or no aspirations to have links) with the Supporters Trust, it isn't very clear what the Trust actually is in terms of its remit or where it sits.
I would have thought it should be closely linked and affiliated to the running of the club at a board level, or be totally independent to challenge if/when required.
It should have a strong, visible and ideally charismatic figurehead who the common fan would know, at least by name and sight. There should be regular publications that would reach the vast majority of the fanbase, especially with the outreach of social media, mailing lists etc. The Trust sticky links for example rarely get updated on here, a site that sees a lot of traffic.
I totally appreciate that anyone involved with the Trust will be working on a voluntary basis, have commitments outside of their role and get little thanks for the work they do. It could be that we just haven't got the supporters we need to coordinate and maintain a high performing Trust. There must be some very intelligent people on it.
As an example, during the Cardoza 'scandal' it should have been the central focal point for high profile protests but all I remember was a muted 'We Want Answers' campaign, again possibly down to general apathy and lack of coordination. I can vaguely remember something 'getting by' the Trust in terms of the loan.

So it's far from direct criticism and hats off to those that do try and dedicate time and energy to the Trust, as well as raise funds. However, it doesn't feel like an effective forum at the moment. It could be an 'old boys club' that doesn't really welcome 'outsiders' and needs a total overhaul I really don't know?
  


Title: Re: KELVIN THOMAS TIME TO GO.
Post by: Battery Man on May 04, 2021, 10:30:15 am
Ok, Iíve been a regular on this board for a good number of years now, and have recently joined the Trust board....what do you want me to do?

This would depend heavily on what we as fans are trying to achieve, I would suggest the first stage would be to see where the fans are at in terms of wanting KT out, and that is as many fans as can be reached not just trust members, I don't know if anyone at the trust has a list of fans emails but that would be a good starting point.

I feel we can critisize the trust all we want, however, the trust can't do anything if we as fans don't tell them what we want from the club so until the trust go out and get the fans opinions it is just guesswork what the actual support want.

I think you will find it falls into a few categories.

1. Those who are happy with the status quo
2. Those who want KT out for another owner who has money and can take the club forward
3. Those who want more fan involvement, probably along the German 50+1 model route.

This is a long path and cannot happen overnight but it does need the majority of the supporter base on board, which means canvassing all supporters social media groups.

Personally I don't think KT is doing anything for this club to take us forward, yes I was thankful when he came in but apart from an extra toilet door we have very little to show for his tenure so I would like to see him gone, but how that is achieved I am not sure.

I would also be prepared to put a £1000 in if it comes to that being needed, I haven't got that sort of cash laying around but if it was a fully costed proposal alongside a majority shareholder I would find the money from somewhere, I think we have reached the stage where a change is needed.


Title: Re: KELVIN THOMAS TIME TO GO.
Post by: everbrite on May 04, 2021, 10:39:09 am
It is clear now you hold a grudge and you are more concerned with bitching at the Trust than progressing the club.

How ironic for you to come out with such comments.


Title: Re: KELVIN THOMAS TIME TO GO.
Post by: DrillingCobbler on May 04, 2021, 10:39:18 am
Some interesting views and in general, a good debate...

Personally, I am no longer on the Trust Board. I only make that point because I've been referenced a couple of times.

My views, for what its worth are thus. That the Trust should put its weight behind a community project and see how it plays out. There are a lot of passionate and intelligent people involved in it, and I certainly wouldn't question their motivation. I started to question mine for a whole number of reasons, but the key one was lack of time due to a change of personal circumstances, work commitments etc. I also, quite frankly, just want to 'selfishly' enjoy watching football again and take the politics out of it all.

I think there is some momentum going towards more official fan involvement/control within football generally, that said I also think we are a long way off any significant changes within ownership models etc (across the board). In an ideal world Id love all 92 clubs (and below those as well) to have a 51/49 German style model, but whether or not it is possible to adapt that model in isolated cases is open to debate. I think if it was to be possible, the first thing that needs to happen is for the bulk of the fan base to be united. How that is achieved is very difficult because we all know there are so many factions within our support. We have three travel groups, all of which have varying views (generalising here) on each other, and varying official/non official tie ins with the club itself. You've then got 'off shoots' like the podcast chaps, you've got lone rangers on social media that gather either degrees of support or the total opposite!  Somehow, these groups and 'social influencers' need to be brought together. I don't think there's anyone at the minute who is standing forward and being that person to create that 'all in it together' type 'movement' so until that happens we will continue to argue about it. That all said, its great to see some healthy debate for once!!

MC's post really hit it home for me, personally. Could of written the bulk of it myself.

Its a big challenge but the good thing is that timing wise, for once we have plenty of it. We now know which division we are going to be in next season, we all kind of accept that budget wise we are unable at this point in time to give league1 a decent go. Covid or no covid, its all relative. I don't blame the owners for that, I don't blame KC, JB, anyone in particular. Its a collective issue. The club needs to generate more £, it needs better training facilities etc. But ultimately the whole East Stand debacle needs to be put aside and the club needs to start being seen purely as a football club and not with 'redevelopment' as a prime distraction. Its been the case now for at least 15 years, and quite frankly (like the majority of us I guess) Im utterly bored of it.

Im sure that in the days and weeks ahead, things will move fairly rapidly in all areas. My view is that the owners are not stupid, they would have picked up on the general feeling of the fan base and will adapt accordingly. They have to, at the end of the day.

I enjoy working with the staff at the football club with my sponsorship stuff. I am also looking forward to going back to games hopefully in August. I will also continue to support the Trust in a non official capacity. I wont though get involved in a neg fest on here or on twitter/facebook etc, I simply cannot see the point. It needs positive change and neither the football club or the fan base should wait for each other. Lead it now is what Id like to see!




Title: Re: KELVIN THOMAS TIME TO GO.
Post by: random on May 04, 2021, 10:56:39 am
Great post Battery although I think the Trust board and any fans who want to voice an opinion, should decide what their chosen outcome is and present it to the fans (like they did before) but it needs to be done more in stages so it builds momentum rather than one big meeting, then nothing.

Afterall they are the ones who will drive any fans change forward. It's ok to do a vote now but with so much apathy around I'm not sure you would get any change. There will always be the majority who will sit back and let everyone else do the work and take the risks. Hence why we are where we are today.

As said the campaign needs to be much more on social media and needs to be harder hitting. Perhaps instead of "we want answers" how about "we have questions" and those questions needs to shed light on KT's failures / lack of care for the club. ie: When are you going to pay back our £10k? What happened to the £6m it was reported that the Chinese paid and lost for a share of NTFC?  Is completing the East stand the same or thereabouts from DC plans?  How many broken windows do you have in your home ? Why have the broken windows at Sixfields not been repaired ?  What message do you think this sends to players, agents, fans, staff and football people in general?  Bit longwinded but sure you get the point.

Are you actually Cardoza in disguise ?  

Are you part of a clandestine group of foreign football owners whose aim to take as much OUT of English football as possible, whilst appearing to be a friendly, rather clueless operator like DSI Buckles?  ;D ;D ;D

If the club had good people trying to drive the club forward I am pretty sure other investors would be attracted - just like Wycombe. Be interesting to see how they get on next season.



Title: Re: KELVIN THOMAS TIME TO GO.
Post by: random on May 04, 2021, 11:06:52 am
Not sure of all the issues and ramifications but I think the best course of action would be that:

The club, stadium and immediate operating land is given back (£1) debt free (in terms of investors & their related parties) to the people of Northampton

In exchange the other piece of land is given to KT to develop with a % clawback back to NTFC / NBC to enable the completing of the East Stand and some.

KT can also develop his other land he grabbed off the nose of NBC.

The clubs core needs ripping out and starting again with a focus on getting value. Speak with other small clubs and ask how they survive and prosper, talk with bigger clubs on how they grow, attract and keep support. Speak with managers and coaches on the things that make players improve etc.

Investment needs to go into infrastructure not players agents or loan players etc. We need to invest in assets that will repay not shiny new cars that lose money.

WE NEED A FOOTBALL CLUB TO BE PROUD OF. THE TOWN & COUNTY WANTS AND NEEDS IT TOO. ..... Lets GO


Title: Re: KELVIN THOMAS TIME TO GO.
Post by: Steve Massive Massey on May 04, 2021, 11:47:03 am
The "Trust" is about as effective in bringing change as a group of green haired lesbians chained to fence. Not their fault but the club is now in a worse position than when they moved into Sixfields 25 years ago.

Unfortunately barring a few, most Cobblers fans (as wonderful as they are) are seen from the outside as frankly a bit odd, beer bellies and tank tops with egg down their front, and that's just the ladies. A successful meeting would be deemed as six pints of real ale and a game of crib.

What I'm getting at is for all the endless words on here and well meaning "Trust" meetings it is never going to engage the general public of the Town, the last time the Town was really behind the football club was during the Atkins period and if a superb stand had emerged after the first Wembley visit some inertia may have been gained but DC saw to that and finished the club for a generation.

I'm sorry but serious change for NTFC will never happen unless something incredibly bold happens that excites the potential customer base and in that I mean people without egg down their tops who have money to spend. I'm just a supporter but friends of mine have sponsored the club, the facilities for corporate guests are diabolical, they would never have invited other business clients along for risk of being ashamed, that's a huge issue.

The whole Sixfields area has massive potential and why DC/KT got involved but it appears to have been managed by the primate section of London Zoo. The council would be better off spending £500k in commissioning Norman Foster than chasing the skint DC in court. A bold iconic landmark development that creates media attention would recoup their losses quicker than wasting time in court. Melly has quite rightly pointed out getting funding for projects is harder than ever, for bang average projects yes, but for something more remarkable, a breathtaking new development it can draw a different level of interest.

I'm a proud Northamptonian but if you return to the town after years away it's shocking, you realise just how backward and risk averse the planners and the council really are so that will never happen, more Travelodge than Marriott.

Titanic just deck the chairs the on rearrange.



Title: Re: KELVIN THOMAS TIME TO GO.
Post by: cobblertone on May 04, 2021, 12:19:49 pm
The "Trust" is about as effective in bringing change as a group of green haired lesbians chained to fence. Not their fault but the club is now in a worse position than when they moved into Sixfields 25 years ago.

Unfortunately barring a few, most Cobblers fans (as wonderful as they are) are seen from the outside as frankly a bit odd, beer bellies and tank tops with egg down their front, and that's just the ladies. A successful meeting would be deemed as six pints of real ale and a game of crib.

What I'm getting at is for all the endless words on here and well meaning "Trust" meetings it is never going to engage the general public of the Town, the last time the Town was really behind the football club was during the Atkins period and if a superb stand had emerged after the first Wembley visit some inertia may have been gained but DC saw to that and finished the club for a generation.

I'm sorry but serious change for NTFC will never happen unless something incredibly bold happens that excites the potential customer base and in that I mean people without egg down their tops who have money to spend. I'm just a supporter but friends of mine have sponsored the club, the facilities for corporate guests are diabolical, they would never have invited other business clients along for risk of being ashamed, that's a huge issue.

The whole Sixfields area has massive potential and why DC/KT got involved but it appears to have been managed by the primate section of London Zoo. The council would be better off spending £500k in commissioning Norman Foster than chasing the skint DC in court. A bold iconic landmark development that creates media attention would recoup their losses quicker than wasting time in court. Melly has quite rightly pointed out getting funding for projects is harder than ever, for bang average projects yes, but for something more remarkable, a breathtaking new development it can draw a different level of interest.

I'm a proud Northamptonian but if you return to the town after years away it's shocking, you realise just how backward and risk averse the planners and the council really are so that will never happen, more Travelodge than Marriott.

Titanic just deck the chairs the on rearrange.



 ;D ;D ;D

That's probably what I actually wanted to say. Bit harsh on our female fan base.  ;D


Title: Re: KELVIN THOMAS TIME TO GO.
Post by: GrangeParkCobbler on May 04, 2021, 13:02:44 pm
Some good points here folks, keep them coming and i'll write up some sort of response this evening.


Title: Re: KELVIN THOMAS TIME TO GO.
Post by: Terryfenwickatemyhamster on May 04, 2021, 13:45:42 pm
Ok, Iíve been a regular on this board for a good number of years now, and have recently joined the Trust board....what do you want me to do?

I presume youíve read my posts. That should be enough for anyone to be getting on with 😀😀


Title: Re: KELVIN THOMAS TIME TO GO.
Post by: Terryfenwickatemyhamster on May 04, 2021, 13:51:21 pm
Some good points here folks, keep them coming and i'll write up some sort of response this evening.

Thank you GPC. 


Title: Re: KELVIN THOMAS TIME TO GO.
Post by: St Edmundsbury Cobbler on May 04, 2021, 14:10:02 pm
This type of thread pops up time and again asking what does the Trust do? Why should I join the Trust etc. I remember it being discussed on "Cobblers Comments"

I see the Trust as quite a stuffy relic, it's a "members only" club and even if you are a member, I don't necessarily think the needs or wants of the average Northampton Town Trust Member are addressed or answered.

The "Football Conversation" questions, I've seen two links to them, generally asking the same questions but no real output or response or any plan formulated from them.

As someone said earlier, take a look at that website right now and tell me you honestly think "wow, I need to get on board with this...",  This is your window to the world, your main platform, yet there's nothing that makes you want to go beyond the main page. Scroll down to the bottom and you'll find the news that the next three fixtures against Crewe, Cambridge and Forest Green Rovers are all postponed due to Covid.

There's nothing there that makes me at 45 years old remotely interested in the Trust, let alone someone around 30 years my junior.

If you want the Trust to represent the fans of NTFC and you want the fans of NTFC to get on board, if you seriously believe that fan ownership is the way forward and you want fans to believe you can run a professional football club then you are going to need to overhaul the whole organisation, become open, honest and approachable and bring it kicking and screaming from 1993 into 2021.

A couple of questions

What are the Trust's views on The proposed government football fans forum and have you made a move to be part of that?

One other question, would removing Kelvin Thomas as chairman make any difference? Is he not just the face of the board like Colonal Sanders is the face of KFC?




Title: Re: KELVIN THOMAS TIME TO GO.
Post by: cobblertone on May 04, 2021, 14:34:14 pm
Reading some of the comments it does sound as though the time is right for a Supporters Trust 2.0.
Whether any person or group has the inclination, time, energy, influence, commitment and probably initial funds to do so remains to be seen.
It's either got to come from current Trust members or something new.
Maybe they broke the mold with the late Brian Lomax.


Title: Re: KELVIN THOMAS TIME TO GO.
Post by: MCHammer on May 04, 2021, 14:36:50 pm
Great post Battery although I think the Trust board and any fans who want to voice an opinion, should decide what their chosen outcome is and present it to the fans (like they did before) but it needs to be done more in stages so it builds momentum rather than one big meeting, then nothing.

Afterall they are the ones who will drive any fans change forward. It's ok to do a vote now but with so much apathy around I'm not sure you would get any change. There will always be the majority who will sit back and let everyone else do the work and take the risks. Hence why we are where we are today.

As said the campaign needs to be much more on social media and needs to be harder hitting. Perhaps instead of "we want answers" how about "we have questions" and those questions needs to shed light on KT's failures / lack of care for the club. ie: When are you going to pay back our £10k? What happened to the £6m it was reported that the Chinese paid and lost for a share of NTFC?  Is completing the East stand the same or thereabouts from DC plans?  How many broken windows do you have in your home ? Why have the broken windows at Sixfields not been repaired ?  What message do you think this sends to players, agents, fans, staff and football people in general?  Bit longwinded but sure you get the point.

Are you actually Cardoza in disguise ?  

Are you part of a clandestine group of foreign football owners whose aim to take as much OUT of English football as possible, whilst appearing to be a friendly, rather clueless operator like DSI Buckles?  ;D ;D ;D

If the club had good people trying to drive the club forward I am pretty sure other investors would be attracted - just like Wycombe. Be interesting to see how they get on next season.

You see this is exactly what I was talking about in my orginal post.  Negativity, blame, excuses of apathy and claims of how easily it can be done better.  We can all play Fantasy Football Owner when we want to and I'm pretty sure most of us think we could do better.  The only people you will impress by acting like this are the small amount of individuals that already agree with you.

Unless I'm mistaken about who you are in "real life" I understand you have just joined the Trust Board as well.  If true then that makes me sad as these will be the sort of views that you will be representing when acting for us the supporters.  If they are your tweets I read over the last month to local media then even worse.

Whether you like it or not a large amount of the clubs supporters see KT as the guy that saved the club from going bust.  They like him.  They see him via Bower financially supporting a loss making entity.   Most seem to want him here because while some alternatives may be better they also know, as history has shown us many times, some alternatives could be much, much worse.

What you and the trust should be doing is showing a positive vision to fans of how it could be better but backing that up with hard evidence of how it would be done.  Take me and them on a positive journey of how things could change and most importantly how you would do it.  Don't continually go on about how badly it's currently being done show me how it can be done differently/better and back this with evidence and a real plan.  As I said before take on a project that fans can really get behind and engage with.  I ask again what has the trust done for the benefit of the fans in the last 5 years?

By all means hold KT to account but the Trust is supposed to be a "critical friend".  I don't see any friendship being shown from either side.  You can choose to accept what I say or not as is your right.  The problem is when the Trust or its representatives continually attack KT it comes across as an attack on the club and it's staff.  Imagine working somewhere where you are sweating your nuts off trying to get the most out of what you have within limited finances and have armchair critics constantly telling you what a sh1t job you are doing but offering no viable alternative.  I know many people who genuinely think that the Trust hates the club.  I know that's not true but it's all about perception and negativity breeds this perception.


Title: Re: KELVIN THOMAS TIME TO GO.
Post by: MCHammer on May 04, 2021, 14:44:06 pm
Personally, I am no longer on the Trust Board. I only make that point because I've been referenced a couple of times.

I hadn't seen that and that's a real shame although fully appreciate the reasons why you would want to step down.  Thanks for the time you gave to it, engaging with people on here and remaining true to your own opinions and beliefs even if they didn't always completely match those of the rest of the board.

Enjoy being a supporter again if that's possible  ;D


Title: Re: KELVIN THOMAS TIME TO GO.
Post by: Carton Lid on May 04, 2021, 15:03:50 pm

  I ask again what has the trust done for the benefit of the fans in the last 5 years?  The deal that KT & DB Used to buy NTFC was brokered between the Trust & NBC.




Title: Re: KELVIN THOMAS TIME TO GO.
Post by: Deepcut Cobbler on May 04, 2021, 15:36:54 pm
Before providing a "Statement from the Trust", consult with the membership, not just the board members and not with the closed questions that we have seen previously.


Title: Re: KELVIN THOMAS TIME TO GO.
Post by: MCHammer on May 04, 2021, 16:04:48 pm
The deal that KT & DB Used to buy NTFC was brokered between the Trust & NBC.

That was more than 5 years ago.

Part of The Trust mission statement says:

"Our commitment to NTFC and football in Northampton
We commit to supporting the aims and objectives of NTFC where, in the opinion of the board, these are not in direct conflict with the needs and best interests of supporters. We further commit to providing financial support to NTFC through increased shareholding and to ensure this investment is of general or specific benefit to our members."

https://www.ntfctrust.co.uk/mission-statement (https://www.ntfctrust.co.uk/mission-statement)

So during the last 5 years, how and what specific or general benefit did members or the wider supporters base receive?  What financial support was provided to NTFC to achieve those benefits and how much did our shareholding increase by?

I'm not trying to nail anyone to the wall here.  I'm trying to remind people what the trust should and claims to exist for.  To also point out that if you offer no tangible benefit or purpose to the wider support base then how do you ever expect to be relevant or increase membership.


Title: Re: KELVIN THOMAS TIME TO GO.
Post by: Battery Man on May 04, 2021, 16:18:12 pm
I think as well that the Trust board needs to decide if they are happy for fans who are not members and who have been critical of the way they have operated to become part of this. I would hope that they will welcome all and that everyone can work together to make something happen. I would also suggest that it may be time to start talking to businessmen and money men to see if anybody has an interest in being involved with a league 2 club from a part ownership perspective.


Title: Re: KELVIN THOMAS TIME TO GO.
Post by: DrillingCobbler on May 04, 2021, 16:39:44 pm
I hadn't seen that and that's a real shame although fully appreciate the reasons why you would want to step down.  Thanks for the time you gave to it, engaging with people on here and remaining true to your own opinions and beliefs even if they didn't always completely match those of the rest of the board.

Enjoy being a supporter again if that's possible  ;D

Ill try!!  ;D

Thanks for the kind words. I will always voice my opinions and try to do so in a way that is respectful. It will be interesting to see how things progress in the coming weeks and months ahead, on and off the pitch. A change of direction is most certainly needed but for me its a collective challenge, and that the club and the Trust need to work on together. That doesn't mean that they have to wedge themselves together, but if they can find 'significant common ground' shall we say then further down the line perhaps the outlook for all concerned will be a much more positive one.

Its a hugely time consuming journey, and if I was in a different place Id have tried to influence it in a positive way. But we've just bought a caravan on the East Coast (wheres 'Ted' when you need him!!), and are spending most weekends there as well as all school holidays (I can work remotely fortunately). I've also got an allotment, an established business, one I'm trying to build, and an 11 year old. Zooms two or three times a week in the evenings talking about football, just cant spare the time for it.

So Ill just stick to a few posts on here, a few tweets after matches, and a few beers before and after the games hopefully come August onwards. When I've flogged my business's for 150million quid Ill be back and try and take us up to the premier league before having to declare myself bankrupt when we fail at the 2nd attempt in the championship playoffs!!  ;D


Title: Re: KELVIN THOMAS TIME TO GO.
Post by: Carton Lid on May 04, 2021, 17:28:49 pm
I think as well that the Trust board needs to decide if they are happy for fans who are not members and who have been critical of the way they have operated to become part of this. I would hope that they will welcome all and that everyone can work together to make something happen. I would also suggest that it may be time to start talking to businessmen and money men to see if anybody has an interest in being involved with a league 2 club from a part ownership perspective.

I'm speaking as a Trust member here, I would like ALL NTFC fans to work together but surely if fans want an input on an organisation, it's not asking a lot for them to contribute  towards the general costs of running the said organisation, otherwise the said organisation cannot function.
     The Trust membership at £5 for 1 year up to £50 for life is, I think, good value. I've noticed that people have commented about communications from the Trust but, unless members complete a GDPR form the Trust cannot use their email, and a mailshot costs upwards of £500.
      It's a difficult question, I know in the past the Trust did consider free membership  for people who consent to receive everything electronically and I'm sure if enough people were interested they would look into it again. But if you want to be involved with an organisation 10p per week is not going to break anyone.
      I haven't been on the board for a year now but I can say that in the time I was on the board, the Trust were in regular contact with lots of local businessmen and the come back was usually favourable.


Title: Re: KELVIN THOMAS TIME TO GO.
Post by: random on May 04, 2021, 17:29:07 pm
Hi MC, no you have me confused with someone else, I'm not on the board of the Trust and never have been.

Please believe me I WANTED KT to be successful, I was there when he came back, I was there at the end of season do and listen to his speech etc but it didn't take long to realise what KT is all about.

I am not sure why it is my fault asking honest questions about KT, it isn't me who had not delivered in any way shape or form for our club, it is KT.

I am just flabbergasted how and why so many fans defend KT & DC before him yet hold the Trust up to their actions time and time again.

I just want my team to at least try to be the best it can be, if we were 5 mins from a Man U or Arsenal and in a deprived part of the country I would hold my hands up and say it is almost impossible to compete, but we don't, we have a great catchment area, a great opportunity yet most of fans don't even see or understand that, let alone owners who live 4000+ miles away


Title: Re: KELVIN THOMAS TIME TO GO.
Post by: Melbourne Cobbler on May 04, 2021, 17:40:21 pm
There are 2 distinct groups on here. The first is pro Trust and supports its approach. The second is critical of the Trusts processes. The positive thing is that everyone agrees that a Supporters Trust is or should be an important part of the future, just some believe it needs to operate differently? Virtually everyone agrees that ideally things need to change if our club and football administration generally is to improve and evolve positively, so we are half way there. For this to happen these 2 groups within our support base simply must be brought together. No initiative for change will succeed whilst we are divided amongst ourselves. All this does is make any initiative weak, ineffective and more likely to fail.

As I have already said, the Trusts number one priority at this point has to be to unify the support base. It will only do that if it is prepared to change and evolve. The current approach is failing because of the ongoing division among the support base regarding the Trusts processes. The Trust has to be truly representative of the support base, and at the moment it isnít because of the countless examples of division on here. Until the Trust board accept this as fact they will simply hand the initiative to the next chancer waiting in the wings to play fantasy football and massage their ego with our club? This is not a criticism, just a plea for common sense that if accepted may just make a difference to our club? Divide and almost certainly be conquered or unify and possibly succeed, you decide.


Title: Re: KELVIN THOMAS TIME TO GO.
Post by: Carton Lid on May 04, 2021, 17:44:58 pm
There are 2 distinct groups on here. The first is pro Trust and supports its approach. The second is critical of the Trusts processes. The positive thing is that everyone agrees that a Supporters Trust is or should be an important part of the future, just some believe it needs to operate differently? Virtually everyone agrees that ideally things need to change if our club and football administration generally is to improve and evolve positively, so we are half way there. For this to happen these 2 groups within our support base simply must be brought together. No initiative for change will succeed whilst we are divided amongst ourselves. All this does is make any initiative weak, ineffective and more likely to fail.

As I have already said, the Trusts number one priority at this point has to be to unify the support base. It will only do that if it is prepared to change and evolve. The current approach is failing because of the ongoing division among the support base regarding the Trusts processes. The Trust has to be truly representative of the support base, and at the moment it isnít because of the countless examples of division on here. Until the Trust board accept this as fact they will simply hand the initiative to the next chancer waiting in the wings to play fantasy football and massage their ego with our club? This is not a criticism, just a plea for common sense that if accepted may just make a difference to our club? Divide and almost certainly be conquered or unify and possibly succeed, you decide.
Agree 100%


Title: Re: KELVIN THOMAS TIME TO GO.
Post by: SadOldGit on May 04, 2021, 17:54:57 pm
I notice the new Wigan owners are returning the money raised by the supporters to keep things running.


Title: Re: KELVIN THOMAS TIME TO GO.
Post by: Manwork04 on May 04, 2021, 20:28:11 pm
I notice the new Wigan owners are returning the money raised by the supporters to keep things running.
Classy, shame about our owners.


Title: Re: KELVIN THOMAS TIME TO GO.
Post by: Manwork04 on May 04, 2021, 20:29:20 pm
There are 2 distinct groups on here. The first is pro Trust and supports its approach. The second is critical of the Trusts processes. The positive thing is that everyone agrees that a Supporters Trust is or should be an important part of the future, just some believe it needs to operate differently? Virtually everyone agrees that ideally things need to change if our club and football administration generally is to improve and evolve positively, so we are half way there. For this to happen these 2 groups within our support base simply must be brought together. No initiative for change will succeed whilst we are divided amongst ourselves. All this does is make any initiative weak, ineffective and more likely to fail.

As I have already said, the Trusts number one priority at this point has to be to unify the support base. It will only do that if it is prepared to change and evolve. The current approach is failing because of the ongoing division among the support base regarding the Trusts processes. The Trust has to be truly representative of the support base, and at the moment it isnít because of the countless examples of division on here. Until the Trust board accept this as fact they will simply hand the initiative to the next chancer waiting in the wings to play fantasy football and massage their ego with our club? This is not a criticism, just a plea for common sense that if accepted may just make a difference to our club? Divide and almost certainly be conquered or unify and possibly succeed, you decide.
Great post Melly old boy.


Title: Re: KELVIN THOMAS TIME TO GO.
Post by: Terryfenwickatemyhamster on May 04, 2021, 20:29:54 pm
Agree 100%

I'm really please to hear that. Because it says exactly what Iíve been saying for the last few years.



Title: Re: KELVIN THOMAS TIME TO GO.
Post by: GrangeParkCobbler on May 04, 2021, 20:55:06 pm
Something that was mentioned on here, about the "sticky" Trust section on this messageboard, all too sparsely populated over the past few years.....I have now posted in there!

Might be easier to post replies/responses/updates all in one place rather than populate many different threads with the answers to what are broadly the same questions!


Title: Re: KELVIN THOMAS TIME TO GO.
Post by: Deepcut Cobbler on May 04, 2021, 22:50:45 pm
I'm speaking as a Trust member here, I would like ALL NTFC fans to work together but surely if fans want an input on an organisation, it's not asking a lot for them to contribute  towards the general costs of running the said organisation, otherwise the said organisation cannot function.
     The Trust membership at £5 for 1 year up to £50 for life is, I think, good value. I've noticed that people have commented about communications from the Trust but, unless members complete a GDPR form the Trust cannot use their email, and a mailshot costs upwards of £500.
      It's a difficult question, I know in the past the Trust did consider free membership  for people who consent to receive everything electronically and I'm sure if enough people were interested they would look into it again. But if you want to be involved with an organisation 10p per week is not going to break anyone.
      I haven't been on the board for a year now but I can say that in the time I was on the board, the Trust were in regular contact with lots of local businessmen and the come back was usually favourable.

Regarding communication, why not use the website with links advertised on here?
I did it in three clicks earlier in this?
No one habitually visits the Trust website, a link or two on here would encourage people to 'have a look'.


Title: Re: KELVIN THOMAS TIME TO GO.
Post by: Battery Man on May 05, 2021, 08:01:01 am
I'm speaking as a Trust member here, I would like ALL NTFC fans to work together but surely if fans want an input on an organisation, it's not asking a lot for them to contribute  towards the general costs of running the said organisation, otherwise the said organisation cannot function.
     The Trust membership at £5 for 1 year up to £50 for life is, I think, good value. I've noticed that people have commented about communications from the Trust but, unless members complete a GDPR form the Trust cannot use their email, and a mailshot costs upwards of £500.
      It's a difficult question, I know in the past the Trust did consider free membership  for people who consent to receive everything electronically and I'm sure if enough people were interested they would look into it again. But if you want to be involved with an organisation 10p per week is not going to break anyone.
      I haven't been on the board for a year now but I can say that in the time I was on the board, the Trust were in regular contact with lots of local businessmen and the come back was usually favourable.

I fully agree with you GPC and as someone who has never joined the trust, it is my intention to now do that, because unless we all pull together on this nothing is ever going to change. I still think we need to get all supporters and some local businesses involved because it is the only way we progress if we all feel engaged.


Title: Re: KELVIN THOMAS TIME TO GO.
Post by: Melbourne Cobbler on May 05, 2021, 10:09:47 am
Regarding communication, why not use the website with links advertised on here?
I did it in three clicks earlier in this?
No one habitually visits the Trust website, a link or two on here would encourage people to 'have a look'.
As stated earlier, I can get my boffs to set them up with a Mailchimp facility for around £450 as a one off fee. That will allow them to send monthly/weekly or whatever frequency emails they like to all members with one click. Happy to co-ordinate this for them, or alternatively they could get someone in the UK of similar expertise to do it for them for around the same fee? There are plenty of companies out there that provide this service as bread and butter. It has a response facility so they could put out surveys and have data analytics back from the support base on a daily basis if they had the time and inclination? The tools are there chaps and it ainít that expensive or time consuming IMO.


Title: Re: KELVIN THOMAS TIME TO GO.
Post by: Manwork04 on May 07, 2021, 12:46:45 pm
https://www.northamptonchron.co.uk/sport/football/thomas-has-no-regrets-over-the-timing-of-curles-sacking-3226643
Thomasís arrogance is making him look very silly now.
If you back a manager in the transfer window you HAVE to give him until the end of the season to implement the signings and turn things around.
Sacking him 2 weeks after the window closed just goes to show muddled thinking, a lack of focus and a complete lack of interest.
If you worked for me Thomas Iíd have you performance managed out of the business before you could say yeah, no.


Title: Re: KELVIN THOMAS TIME TO GO.
Post by: threeinabed on May 07, 2021, 12:55:47 pm
If you back a manager in the transfer window you HAVE to give him until the end of the season to implement the signings and turn things around.

just googled this and can't find this anywhere, are you sure that has to be the case, or can owners of clubs do what they want to? didn't realise timelines were written in stone?



Title: Re: KELVIN THOMAS TIME TO GO.
Post by: Manwork04 on May 07, 2021, 14:29:43 pm
just googled this and can't find this anywhere, are you sure that has to be the case, or can owners of clubs do what they want to? didn't realise timelines were written in stone?


Itís called common sense TBH mate, itís like upgrading your car and then giving it away for scrap.


Title: Re: KELVIN THOMAS TIME TO GO.
Post by: threeinabed on May 07, 2021, 14:37:22 pm
Itís called common sense TBH mate, itís like upgrading your car and then giving it away for scrap.


fair point - and it wasn't just us, Chelsea did similar with Lampard and that has gone horribly wrong for them - or did they buy a previously scrapped car and do it up to sell it for thousands?!




Title: Re: KELVIN THOMAS TIME TO GO.
Post by: Manwork04 on May 07, 2021, 14:52:09 pm
fair point - and it wasn't just us, Chelsea did similar with Lampard and that has gone horribly wrong for them - or did they buy a previously scrapped car and do it up to sell it for thousands?!



;D I think Chelsea own the scrapyard.


Title: Re: KELVIN THOMAS TIME TO GO.
Post by: singcobb on May 07, 2021, 18:21:41 pm
fair point - and it wasn't just us, Chelsea did similar with Lampard and that has gone horribly wrong for them - or did they buy a previously scrapped car and do it up to sell it for thousands?!



Maybe we could have Lampard, get him to do it on the cheap, it's not like he needs the money.


Title: Re: KELVIN THOMAS TIME TO GO.
Post by: west stand oap on May 07, 2021, 20:20:53 pm
Obviously no chance of Lampard coming here but if he did don't let him loose with the transfer budget. He signed Martyn Waghorn for Derby on a 3 year contract for just over £5million, now after 2 years they are rumoured to be giving him a free transfer to get him off their books as he is on about £8000 per week and has scored 3 goals in 33 appearances this season. Similar to our strikers.


Title: Re: KELVIN THOMAS TIME TO GO.
Post by: SadOldGit on May 07, 2021, 20:29:44 pm
Obviously no chance of Lampard coming here but if he did don't let him loose with the transfer budget. He signed Martyn Waghorn for Derby on a 3 year contract for just over £5million, now after 2 years they are rumoured to be giving him a free transfer to get him off their books as he is on about £8000 per week and has scored 3 goals in 33 appearances this season. Similar to our strikers.

Waghorn would be a fantastic signing. We long for 3 goals in 33 games, that, my friend, is progress. Put him on the books double-quick and give him a parking space behind the new east stand.


Title: Re: KELVIN THOMAS TIME TO GO.
Post by: Manwork04 on May 07, 2021, 20:36:49 pm
Waghorn would be a fantastic signing. We long for 3 goals in 33 games, that, my friend, is progress. Put him on the books double-quick and give him a parking space behind the new east stand.
It will have to go before the committee first.


Title: Re: KELVIN THOMAS TIME TO GO.
Post by: Manwork04 on May 08, 2021, 10:35:55 am
So the Torys win West Northamptonshire (surprise surprise) good news for KT and DB.
Letís hope they and we can get a good deal and get rid of these chancers ASAP.