The Hotel End

The Hotel End => Cobblers Corner => Topic started by: DavCobb on March 17, 2023, 15:36:11 pm



Title: Accounts…as you were
Post by: DavCobb on March 17, 2023, 15:36:11 pm
Apologies if posted elsewhere. Always a lively debate chance for Beds to roll out his narrative.  :P

https://www.ntfc.co.uk/news/2023/march/2022_accounts/


Title: Re: Accounts…as you were
Post by: guest3551 on March 18, 2023, 19:45:43 pm
A huge increase = a huge loss. Typical asset strippers.


Title: Re: Accounts…as you were
Post by: guest3566 on March 18, 2023, 20:56:27 pm
A huge increase = a huge loss. Typical asset strippers.
I blame everyone


Title: Re: Accounts…as you were
Post by: guest3551 on March 18, 2023, 21:11:00 pm
I blame everyone


I don't. The blame falls squarely on the usurpers and misfits. In the words of Henry Kissinger (an old fogey of bygone years) 'should the field become green the colour will fade of hues we dread'. You tell em boyo.


Title: Re: Accounts…as you were
Post by: guest3566 on March 18, 2023, 21:22:38 pm
it's Norhamptone after the Neolithic encampment but following a Danish invasion, in 1037
but then Edward the Elder  1134 -1845 turned Northampton into the centre of one of the new shires,
The town centre was further destroyed by the council over the next 170 years turning into a waste land of nuclear devastation.


Title: Re: Accounts…as you were
Post by: Larry on March 18, 2023, 23:03:29 pm
I don't. The blame falls squarely on the usurpers and misfits. In the words of Henry Kissinger (an old fogey of bygone years) 'should the field become green the colour will fade of hues we dread'. You tell em boyo.

He never said anything so ridiculous.


Title: Re: Accounts…as you were
Post by: EB Claret on March 19, 2023, 11:33:12 am
it's Norhamptone after the Neolithic encampment but following a Danish invasion, in 1037
but then Edward the Elder  1134 -1845 turned Northampton into the centre of one of the new shires,
The town centre was further destroyed by the council over the next 170 years turning into a waste land of nuclear devastation.


Makes the reign of Elizabeth 11 look like the blink of an eye!  :D ;D


Title: Re: Accounts…as you were
Post by: CobblerForever on March 20, 2023, 01:50:35 am
I'd like to see the Staffing costs of £3,804,018 broken down into the categories suggested in the Directors Report;

Players
Football Management team
Match Day Ops
Academy
Commercial
Media
Catering
Education
Admin

BTW I thought Carney was our only meaningful player with regard to the Player Trading figure. I can understand the youth development compensation statement but who did we sell? I can only think of Paul Lewis, Dylan Connolly and Jordan Flores as possibilities but I thought we released all them from their contracts to allow them to leave. Perhaps there was something in Horsfall or Liam Roberts' contracts that meant we received some compensation.

Any ideas?


Title: Re: Accounts…as you were
Post by: CobblerForever on March 20, 2023, 02:04:04 am

BTW I thought Carney was our only meaningful player with regard to the Player Trading figure. I can understand the youth development compensation statement but who did we sell? I can only think of Paul Lewis, Dylan Connolly and Jordan Flores as possibilities but I thought we released all them from their contracts to allow them to leave. Perhaps there was something in Horsfall or Liam Roberts' contracts that meant we received some compensation.

Any ideas?

Researching this further the figures might just include Harry Smith and Caleb Chukwuemeka (both sold in early July 2021).

Be good to see the Player Trading figure broken down as well.


Title: Re: Accounts…as you were
Post by: Zen Master on March 20, 2023, 11:03:04 am
Curious if we pay for flights from Florida and collect air miles?


Title: Re: Accounts…as you were
Post by: DavCobb on March 20, 2023, 12:20:57 pm
Curious if we pay for flights from Florida and collect air miles?

The boss of my firm claims for his private jet for shopping trips with his missus and to attend sporting events. As well as making millions on influencing share price transactions. The shenanigans in big business are shocking but open and common. A few travel claims wouldn’t be amiss, it’d be his place of work.


Title: Re: Accounts…as you were
Post by: CobblerForever on March 20, 2023, 12:55:18 pm
The boss of my firm claims for his private jet for shopping trips with his missus and to attend sporting events. As well as making millions on influencing share price transactions. The shenanigans in big business are shocking but open and common. A few travel claims wouldn’t be amiss, it’d be his place of work.

I spent just over 9 years employed by a FTSE 100 company and we were pretty thoroughly inspected for these sort of deviations (I should know I was the main focus for the record keeping). Your Boss may be pushing his luck if he can't back up his trips with specific reference to the business purpose of his trips and the expenditure on those trips. The Revenue always used to use guides on how much they'd expect to be spent by an individual in that position, in that country, per day on what specifically. They'd check the invoice backup and target specific persons in the business (typically those with sufficient clout to evade the controls the business had in place and had to have in place).


Title: Re: Accounts…as you were
Post by: DavCobb on March 20, 2023, 13:22:19 pm
I spent just over 9 years employed by a FTSE 100 company and we were pretty thoroughly inspected for these sort of deviations (I should know I was the main focus for the record keeping). Your Boss may be pushing his luck if he can't back up his trips with specific reference to the business purpose of his trips and the expenditure on those trips. The Revenue always used to use guides on how much they'd expect to be spent by an individual in that position, in that country, per day on what specifically. They'd check the invoice backup and target specific persons in the business (typically those with sufficient clout to evade the controls the business had in place and had to have in place).

Constantly investigated, a bit of publicity now and then but rarely proven or prosecuted. When you are worth £200m+ the stakes are low and those concerned make sure they don’t get their own hands dirty.
I’m experienced and knowledgeable enough to know that accounts and reporting are used in ‘creative’ ways. Not necessarily illegally but morally questionable.
Having said that, you don’t need to know much to see it going on all around us, including the device you could be reading this on.


Title: Re: Accounts…as you were
Post by: Shoemender on March 20, 2023, 15:02:46 pm
Constantly investigated, a bit of publicity now and then but rarely proven or prosecuted. When you are worth £200m+ the stakes are low and those concerned make sure they don’t get their own hands dirty.
I’m experienced and knowledgeable enough to know that accounts and reporting are used in ‘creative’ ways. Not necessarily illegally but morally questionable.
Having said that, you don’t need to know much to see it going on all around us, including the device you could be reading this on.

Doesn't he fancy buying a football club? :D


Title: Re: Accounts…as you were
Post by: GrangeParkCobbler on March 20, 2023, 15:32:40 pm
Researching this further the figures might just include Harry Smith and Caleb Chukwuemeka (both sold in early July 2021).

Be good to see the Player Trading figure broken down as well.

The report does also mention that although the amount is shown in the accounts (779k) we may not have the physical cash for all those transactions yet. If say we had only received 400k then the actual operating loss for the year would be greater. Not sure how it would work, would it be double accounting if we received some income from these deals next financial year? The debtors to the club (ie those who owe us money) only equate to £341k so is it safe to assume that we have actually received a good chunk of that £779k already or would the outstanding payments not appear in the debtors sum either?

There is also mention of the staffing costs (£3.8m) but another line in there for "administrative expenses" of just over £1.1m. What are these expenses if they are not staff costs?

The other thing I noticed in the last line of the accounts showing that BDJ seems to have loaned the club a further £875k in the financial year.


Title: Re: Accounts…as you were
Post by: Zen Master on March 20, 2023, 16:27:39 pm
Fax machines, photocopiers and laminators don’t come cheap.


Title: Re: Accounts…as you were
Post by: DavCobb on March 20, 2023, 16:41:04 pm


There is also mention of the staffing costs (£3.8m) but another line in there for "administrative expenses" of just over £1.1m. What are these expenses if they are not staff costs?


PowerPoint license fee.


Title: Re: Accounts…as you were
Post by: guest3574 on March 20, 2023, 17:02:47 pm
I'm probably in a minority here, but I don't care about the Club's accounts! I'm more concerned with paying my energy bills


Title: Re: Accounts…as you were
Post by: CobblerForever on March 20, 2023, 17:13:18 pm
I'm probably in a minority here, but I don't care about the Club's accounts! I'm more concerned with paying my energy bills

Question for you;

Are you a season ticket holder?

If Yes, will you be buying one next season depending on price (given the Cost of Living issue you've noted in your comment)?


Title: Re: Accounts…as you were
Post by: guest3574 on March 20, 2023, 17:14:47 pm
Question for you;

Are you a season ticket holder?

If Yes, will you be buying one next season depending on price (given the Cost of Living issue you've noted in your comment)?
I'm not a season ticket holder


Title: Re: Accounts…as you were
Post by: DavCobb on March 20, 2023, 19:03:32 pm
I'm probably in a minority here, but I don't care about the Club's accounts! I'm more concerned with paying my energy bills

It’s a good point, well made.


Title: Re: Accounts…as you were
Post by: guest3574 on March 20, 2023, 20:36:33 pm
It’s a good point, well made.
Thanks, I know people are interested in the club's accounts and finances, i'm not. It used to be somewhere I could lose myself for a couple of hours on match day


Title: Re: Accounts…as you were
Post by: BedsCobb on March 20, 2023, 22:03:14 pm
I'm probably in a minority here, but I don't care about the Club's accounts! I'm more concerned with paying my energy bills
Cared enough to point out that you don't care..But you do really  ;D


Title: Re: Accounts…as you were
Post by: guest3571 on March 21, 2023, 08:50:02 am
I'm probably in a minority here, but I don't care about the Club's accounts! I'm more concerned with paying my energy bills
As much as the Luton Liar and some others would want us to believe, I have very few concerns over the financial health of the club. Yes I would like the club to be debt free, yes I would like more money in the bank, yes I would like more money to sign better players, but I currently dont have any concerns over the financial heath of the club which mean I am worried about having a team to support this weekend or next season.


Title: Re: Accounts…as you were
Post by: CobblerForever on March 21, 2023, 09:29:40 am
As much as the Luton Liar and some others would want us to believe, I have very few concerns over the financial health of the club. Yes I would like the club to be debt free, yes I would like more money in the bank, yes I would like more money to sign better players, but I currently don't have any concerns over the financial heath of the club which mean I am worried about having a team to support this weekend or next season.

If you read the Auditors Report you will find it makes it very clear we are reliant on the support of the Owners. Without that we would not be treated as a going concern. We would be technically insolvent and forced into Receivership. What happens if the principal owner becomes incapable or changes his mind?


Title: Re: Accounts…as you were
Post by: EB Claret on March 21, 2023, 10:08:40 am
If you read the Auditors Report you will find it makes it very clear we are reliant on the support of the Owners. Without that we would not be treated as a going concern. We would be technically insolvent and forced into Receivership. What happens if the principal owner becomes incapable or changes his mind?

But surely you apply those points to Wrexham and most other teams in the country


Title: Re: Accounts…as you were
Post by: guest3571 on March 21, 2023, 10:39:30 am
If you read the Auditors Report you will find it makes it very clear we are reliant on the support of the Owners. Without that we would not be treated as a going concern. We would be technically insolvent and forced into Receivership. What happens if the principal owner becomes incapable or changes his mind?
I know.
How many of the football league clubs are in a similar position? I would guess the majority.
How many of the football league clubs owe money to 3rd parties? I would again guess the majority.

The situation we are in (needing support of owners) is a reflection of football overall and not specific to us. You could argue that we are in a stronger position than some of our rivals as we dont have outside debt that could be called in.

Not sayings its a good place to be in, but its not something that I worry about. Can call me naïve and burying my head in the sand etc but thats my opinion.


Title: Re: Accounts…as you were
Post by: Substitute on March 21, 2023, 14:33:44 pm
The report does also mention that although the amount is shown in the accounts (779k) we may not have the physical cash for all those transactions yet. If say we had only received 400k then the actual operating loss for the year would be greater. Not sure how it would work, would it be double accounting if we received some income from these deals next financial year? The debtors to the club (ie those who owe us money) only equate to £341k so is it safe to assume that we have actually received a good chunk of that £779k already or would the outstanding payments not appear in the debtors sum either?

There is also mention of the staffing costs (£3.8m) but another line in there for "administrative expenses" of just over £1.1m. What are these expenses if they are not staff costs?

The other thing I noticed in the last line of the accounts showing that BDJ seems to have loaned the club a further £875k in the financial year.


Who is BDJ chap? Is it that sex worker that won't share then sells it to ne'er do wells?


Title: Re: Accounts…as you were
Post by: random1 on March 22, 2023, 22:29:46 pm
I know.
How many of the football league clubs are in a similar position? I would guess the majority.
How many of the football league clubs owe money to 3rd parties? I would again guess the majority.

The situation we are in (needing support of owners) is a reflection of football overall and not specific to us. You could argue that we are in a stronger position than some of our rivals as we dont have outside debt that could be called in.

Not sayings its a good place to be in, but its not something that I worry about. Can call me naïve and burying my head in the sand etc but thats my opinion.

Tell you one club that isn't, and funny enough it is owned by its supporters - Exeter City or Plymouth (whose owner converted most debt to shares)

Absolute chalk and cheese


Title: Re: Accounts…as you were
Post by: guest3571 on March 23, 2023, 12:27:25 pm
Tell you one club that isn't, and funny enough it is owned by its supporters - Exeter City or Plymouth (whose owner converted most debt to shares)

Absolute chalk and cheese
Then I implore you and the Trust board to do something proactive about it.


Title: Re: Accounts…as you were
Post by: BedsCobb on March 23, 2023, 12:34:24 pm
As much as the Luton Liar and some others would want us to believe, I have very few concerns over the financial health of the club. Yes I would like the club to be debt free, yes I would like more money in the bank, yes I would like more money to sign better players, but I currently dont have any concerns over the financial heath of the club which mean I am worried about having a team to support this weekend or next season.
So you're not worried by the millions our club will lose over the coming years by being denied much needed improvement into its infrastructure?
Of course you don't as you're only interested in the land windfall for cdnl... oh you Transparent one ;)


Title: Re: Accounts…as you were
Post by: guest3571 on March 23, 2023, 12:38:20 pm
So you're not worried by the millions our club will lose over the coming years by being denied much needed improvement into its infrastructure?
Of course you don't as you're only interested in the land windfall for cdnl... oh you Transparent one ;)
No I wont be worrying about fictitious numbers from the Luton Liar. I am hopefully that our club will be able to buy the land and use the £20m ( ;D)  to develop the ground


Title: Re: Accounts…as you were
Post by: BedsCobb on March 23, 2023, 12:38:37 pm
If you read the Auditors Report you will find it makes it very clear we are reliant on the support of the Owners. Without that we would not be treated as a going concern. We would be technically insolvent and forced into Receivership. What happens if the principal owner becomes incapable or changes his mind?
And just where did you read this in the accounts?
Care to point it out?
Was it self inflicted by poor running of the club and failing to maximise earnings?....
We don't need cdnl, but they need us to get the 23 acres.


Title: Re: Accounts…as you were
Post by: DavCobb on March 23, 2023, 14:14:26 pm
I’m just pleased my opening post premonition didn’t disappoint.  ;D


Title: Re: Accounts…as you were
Post by: guest3571 on March 23, 2023, 15:12:04 pm
And just where did you read this in the accounts?
Care to point it out?
Was it self inflicted by poor running of the club and failing to maximise earnings?....
We don't need cdnl, but they need us to get the 23 acres.
Under the going concerns bit and the Directors statement, as they are every year. Surely you have read them with all your knowledge of the clubs turnover and how much we are therefore losing to every other club in the land. Surely, otherwise that would suggest you are just making up the numbers.


Title: Re: Accounts…as you were
Post by: CobblerForever on March 23, 2023, 15:31:38 pm
I’m just pleased my opening post premonition didn’t disappoint.  ;D

The problem with reading them is that they leave you with even more questions than you had before reading them. Carlisle United (one example) provide far more detail to work with.

To be fair, I've prepared hundreds of these documents and the owners always plump for the minimum information compliant with relevant legislation. 


Title: Re: Accounts…as you were
Post by: guest3551 on March 23, 2023, 22:03:19 pm
The problem with reading them is that they leave you with even more questions than you had before reading them. Carlisle United (one example) provide far more detail to work with.

To be fair, I've prepared hundreds of these documents and the owners always plump for the minimum information compliant with relevant legislation. 

Crooked world, ain't it.


Title: Re: Accounts…as you were
Post by: BedsCobb on March 24, 2023, 06:27:54 am
Under the going concerns bit and the Directors statement, as they are every year. Surely you have read them with all your knowledge of the clubs turnover and how much we are therefore losing to every other club in the land. Surely, otherwise that would suggest you are just making up the numbers.
That's what they would like you to think, perhaps?

When a club is deliberately operating at well less than would be expected  all things considered, any loses have to be own by the directors as they have failed to capitalise on earnings potential.
Our deliberately kept, archaic non league infrastructure and lack of inward investors is taking its toll on our abilities to trade as equals to the likes of Huddersfield Barnsley  Rotherham Watford  Posh Oxford etc, meaning we have to compare our trading abilities to the likes of tiny morecambe Accrington Harrogate and Sutton!
We need a finished east stand and a 3000 capacity increase from the land opertunity that has presented itself for the 2nd time in 10 years, If we screw it up again questions will be asked of those complicit in allowing cdnl and WNC  to take the absolute pis5 out of Northampton's football club for a 2nd time.

The chronical need to stop saying the 23 acres are being given to the club when it's actually CDNL its going to, because if it were the later we'd expected a damned sight more than 10 boxes in a tiny rusting stand with the ground being hemmed in by warehouses and there car park.
So the accounts show what a mothballed water treading club without ambition looks like, nothing more.


Title: Re: Accounts…as you were
Post by: Tabasco Kid on March 24, 2023, 07:50:32 am

Our deliberately kept, archaic non league infrastructure and lack of inward investors is taking its toll on our abilities to trade as equals to the likes of Huddersfield 
Think before you post dopey.


https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-11889881/American-consortium-agree-takeover-cash-strapped-Huddersfield-Town.html


Title: Re: Accounts…as you were
Post by: guest3571 on March 24, 2023, 08:29:35 am
Think before you post dopey.


https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-11889881/American-consortium-agree-takeover-cash-strapped-Huddersfield-Town.html
Last account Peterborough lost over £1m and one of their directors took over £300k as a dividend payment.
Barnsley have just posted a loss of almost £8m
Watford -£21.7m
Oxford -£4m

Dont know about anyone else but I am beyond relieved we dont have the ability to trade as equals with them!! Thanks for pointing out the positives of our current position Luton Liar.


Title: Re: Accounts…as you were
Post by: guest3571 on March 24, 2023, 08:35:47 am

We need a finished east stand and a 3000 capacity increase from the land opertunity that has presented itself for the 2nd time in 10 years, If we screw it up again questions will be asked of those complicit in allowing cdnl and WNC  to take the absolute pis5 out of Northampton's football club for a 2nd time.
For balance, I actually agree with this.
There are two ways this COULD happen. First CDNL buy the land develop it and develop the ground and infrastructure with the profit. Second is the council sell the land to anyone else and gift the money to the club (as I believe happened at Exeter).
Personally the second is about as likely as I am to become King as they still need to recover their losses from Cardoza so the revenue from the sale will go back into the council coffers.

I would love there to be a viable third option. There isnt.


Title: Re: Accounts…as you were
Post by: Peter Frost on March 24, 2023, 08:57:24 am
For balance, I actually agree with this.
There are two ways this COULD happen. First CDNL buy the land develop it and develop the ground and infrastructure with the profit. Second is the council sell the land to anyone else and gift the money to the club (as I believe happened at Exeter).
Personally the second is about as likely as I am to become King as they still need to recover their losses from Cardoza so the revenue from the sale will go back into the council coffers.

I would love there to be a viable third option. There isnt.

Spot on - but according to some there is a third option, albeit somewhat lacking in details


Title: Re: Accounts…as you were
Post by: BedsCobb on March 25, 2023, 09:46:36 am
Think before you post dopey.


https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-11889881/American-consortium-agree-takeover-cash-strapped-Huddersfield-Town.html
Excuse my 'dopeyness' but please tell me why we are unable to secure  this sort of real 'investment'?
Maybe it's because we're being held hostage by the greedy greedy CDNL and their need for the vast share of the Sixfields land windfall they certainly don't deserve!
Have you also noticed Swindon have recently bought their stadium and plan to invest millions into its infrastructure to not only benefit STFC but the local community..
What legacy will CDNL leave the local community with the £20m they stand to trouser, the very community that they keep mentioning? Fcuk all would be my guess.

So what is it we're getting that some councillors have pushed for and others don't want to get involved with because it's too contentious? A completely overpriced fit out of a tiny rusting poorly built stand masquerading as a £5,800,000 redevelopment that doesn't do anything for our clubs long term future or serve the community in any way....

Maybe the damage has been done, but I really hope this judicial hearing sees this 5hit awful deal for what it is and gets rightful thinking folk to demand a fair share for Northampton and its football club..
All this mess has resulted from too much brown nosing of the wrong people.. let's hope the  sycophantic nature of our clubs supporters haven't destroyed the future of the football club we all love.


Title: Re: Accounts…as you were
Post by: Tabasco Kid on March 25, 2023, 12:29:15 pm
Excuse my 'dopeyness' but please tell me why we are unable to secure  this sort of real 'investment'?
Maybe it's because we're being held hostage by the greedy greedy CDNL and their need for the vast share of the Sixfields land windfall they certainly don't deserve!
Have you also noticed Swindon have recently bought their stadium and plan to invest millions into its infrastructure to not only benefit STFC but the local community..
What legacy will CDNL leave the local community with the £20m they stand to trouser, the very community that they keep mentioning? Fcuk all would be my guess.

So what is it we're getting that some councillors have pushed for and others don't want to get involved with because it's too contentious? A completely overpriced fit out of a tiny rusting poorly built stand masquerading as a £5,800,000 redevelopment that doesn't do anything for our clubs long term future or serve the community in any way....

Maybe the damage has been done, but I really hope this judicial hearing sees this 5hit awful deal for what it is and gets rightful thinking folk to demand a fair share for Northampton and its football club..
All this mess has resulted from too much brown nosing of the wrong people.. let's hope the  sycophantic nature of our clubs supporters haven't destroyed the future of the football club we all love.
I cant be bothered to read this, because I feel that I may heard it quite a few times before. Tenacious is a good word for you.


Title: Re: Accounts…as you were
Post by: 1971cobbler on March 25, 2023, 12:38:57 pm
[quote author=BedsCobb link=topic=21905.msg489260#msg489260
Have you also noticed Swindon have recently bought their stadium and plan to invest millions into its infrastructure to not only benefit STFC but the local community..

[/quote]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/65067833

It appears from this that the owners haven't bought the stadium, rather it's from a trust?

Have we got that access to bequeathed funds?


Title: Re: Accounts…as you were
Post by: guest3574 on March 25, 2023, 12:48:51 pm
Excuse my 'dopeyness' but please tell me why we are unable to secure  this sort of real 'investment'?
Maybe it's because we're being held hostage by the greedy greedy CDNL and their need for the vast share of the Sixfields land windfall they certainly don't deserve!
Have you also noticed Swindon have recently bought their stadium and plan to invest millions into its infrastructure to not only benefit STFC but the local community..
What legacy will CDNL leave the local community with the £20m they stand to trouser, the very community that they keep mentioning? Fcuk all would be my guess.

So what is it we're getting that some councillors have pushed for and others don't want to get involved with because it's too contentious? A completely overpriced fit out of a tiny rusting poorly built stand masquerading as a £5,800,000 redevelopment that doesn't do anything for our clubs long term future or serve the community in any way....

Maybe the damage has been done, but I really hope this judicial hearing sees this 5hit awful deal for what it is and gets rightful thinking folk to demand a fair share for Northampton and its football club..
All this mess has resulted from too much brown nosing of the wrong people.. let's hope the  sycophantic nature of our clubs supporters haven't destroyed the future of the football club we all love.

Lead us to the promised land oh great redeemer


Title: Re: Accounts…as you were
Post by: singcobb on March 25, 2023, 18:16:13 pm
I cant be bothered to read this, because I feel that I may heard it quite a few times before. Tenacious is a good word for you.

I gave up reading his posts ages ago, I just scroll past them.