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1  The Hotel End / Cobblers Corner / Re: The Rise of Sam Hoskins on: December 08, 2023, 12:42:54 pm
Not as long as you think... JJOT in January 2018 when he scored 4 in 4 as we went unbeaten....we later got relegated.

That was the first since the change of the renaming of the leagues in 2004.
Blimey. Yer, I would never have associated that season with any of our players winning that award  Grin
2  The Hotel End / Cobblers Corner / Re: Redevelopment Closer Than Ever? on: December 08, 2023, 12:40:25 pm
Wow. Very clumsy of you. Im fuming even more now. Over and out.
Sorry, just to clarify r.e this point on the record. Never got a vote about Cilldara, I was referring to the ACV vote.
3  The Hotel End / Cobblers Corner / Re: Redevelopment Closer Than Ever? on: December 08, 2023, 12:26:29 pm
I don't just think it's the supporters Trust. There is hardly any appetite for committees across the board. I have worked for two charities, neither of which can fill vacancies they have at the moment.

So in answer to my question. Are you going to lead the charge on this?
I've said I'll stand for the board - but nothing is ever going to change through the will of one person, a collective effort is required.
4  The Hotel End / Cobblers Corner / Re: Redevelopment Closer Than Ever? on: December 08, 2023, 12:21:37 pm
Oh I'm sorry. You must have misunderstood my post. I'm sure I offered what is and remains the "alternative argument". Yours is based on a quite frankly outdated notion that there is an appetite for a Trust within our support. Outside of alienating themselves with the club, you'd struggle to find a single person that utters them once in a decade.

If you are that convinced that your plan has legs, why haven't you done it?

Listen, if you think the Trust model is outdated and are happy for it to be consigned to history, then fair enough - that's an entirely different argument to what we're talking about here.

My original post was aimed at people who do want an improved supporters' trust board. And I'm simply making the point that we are way past the point of expecting a change in direction that so many people seem to want from it, without a change in personnel. Nothing more, nothing less.

I do believe there's an appetite within the fanbase for a healthy supporters' trust, but I'm not blinkered enough to rule out that I could be wrong. I think that would be a crying shame.
5  The Hotel End / Cobblers Corner / Re: Redevelopment Closer Than Ever? on: December 08, 2023, 11:44:06 am
Do you know the answer to my question?
Assuming this is the question: When was the last time the membership was asked what they want from the trust?

The answer: Probably a long time ago. Agree that regular surveys and sense checks with supporters would be beneficial.
6  The Hotel End / Cobblers Corner / Re: The Rise of Sam Hoskins on: December 08, 2023, 11:32:08 am
I wonder who was the last Cobblers player was to win Player of the Month in League One? Must have been a long time ago!

Well done Sammy, a fantastic achievement.
7  The Hotel End / Cobblers Corner / Re: Redevelopment Closer Than Ever? on: December 08, 2023, 11:28:59 am
“Isn’t going to change anything, in my opinion”, you missed a bit. It seems arrogance isn’t the sole attribute of myself and Tel. In any event perhaps things have changed more than you imagine, believe it or not, not everyone discloses everything they know on here.
This is an internet forum for debate, I was under the assumption that everyone knew that people's posts were their own opinion? How on earth does that make me arrogant?

You seem to want an argument. I don't, so I'm happy to leave it there.
8  The Hotel End / Cobblers Corner / Re: Redevelopment Closer Than Ever? on: December 08, 2023, 11:08:59 am
Well let’s just say the following isn’t a ringing endorsement or a seal of approval.
“You all waste countless hours on here moaning - fill in a paper form, stand for the board and change it. It will take up less of your f***ing time”.
Of course you're entitled to moan. I'm pointing out that we've clearly reached the point, and we reached it long ago, where continuing to moan ISN'T GOING TO CHANGE ANYTHING unless there's a change of personnel.

It's not a binary argument. I support your right to criticise, but can also point out that you choosing to do that but nothing else beyond it isn't going to result in the change you want any time soon.
9  The Hotel End / Cobblers Corner / Re: Redevelopment Closer Than Ever? on: December 08, 2023, 10:53:24 am
It does, but those who choose not to stand are not eliminated from communicating their views or protesting if that is their decision.
I know. Have I ever indicated this isn't the case?
10  The Hotel End / Cobblers Corner / Re: Redevelopment Closer Than Ever? on: December 08, 2023, 10:45:36 am
Perhaps if you are unhappy with the response it’s because you didn’t express your views in the most productive manner. Pressure groups and lobbyists seem very common in the democratic process, some have been spectacularly successful even if it has taken a number of years for their activities to bear fruit. I think you underestimate the effectiveness of this approach, it may yet turn out to be the most likely way to instigate change. Still, with you working on the inside and others working on the outside we can perhaps return the Trust to the organisation it once was. Good luck with it.
I can't apologise for being blunt about the situation or spelling out the reality of a course of inaction.

At the end of the day, in a democratic process, doesn't it all end up with someone having to stand for election?  Grin Wink
11  The Hotel End / Cobblers Corner / Re: Redevelopment Closer Than Ever? on: December 08, 2023, 09:45:37 am
Fez,  no hostility on my part and I understand the sentiment on you original post - I agree with the principle that in life you do get a lot of people who just complain and never do anything about it but re the specific point I can only use my experience where I was very willing to devote time to the trust - I don’t want to go into details of some of the things that were said in both a meeting and in private conversations but the simple conclusion was there were some individuals that were so intransigent with their views and more significant they were the most dominant in character within the organisation - I simply reached the conclusion I couldn’t work with them.
You're always very reasonable Peter, so of course I wouldn't interpret anything hostile in your response, this is a forum for debate after all  Smiley

I totally understand why some people wouldn't want to work with people they've had a bad experience with.


12  The Hotel End / Cobblers Corner / Re: Redevelopment Closer Than Ever? on: December 08, 2023, 09:31:56 am
And with respect to you Fez, your reasoned view is that if you want a voice and to change Trust policy stop “moaning” and get a seat on the board. I think that was your point. There are what 400 members, and according to you if the only effective way they can instigate change is to take their seat then it would take 40 years for all of them to have influence. Whilst I respect your opinion, if it’s all the same to you needless to say I disagree, so I’ll keep doing what I’m doing. But thanks for the advice.
No. My point isn't stop moaning and get a seat on the board. My point is, that if you've moaned for ages and you don't feel they have responded adequately, and they are not showing any signs of resigning, then continuing to moan isn't going to change anything.

You've all been moaning for ages, they're not going to resign, so if you want change you're going to have to do something about it.

It's LITERALLY the only point I'm making. I'm not saying at all that anyone can't criticise the Trust, I'm amazed so many of you have interpreted it in that way, and I can only come to the conclusion that my post is being judged on the fact that I used to be a board member rather than the points I'm actually making.
13  The Hotel End / Cobblers Corner / Re: Redevelopment Closer Than Ever? on: December 08, 2023, 09:26:36 am
You didnt get a vote either? I was fuming about that decision being taken without being informed or asked my opinion. That was what broke any faith that I had in this current board to represent its members. You carry on helping your dad out mate, you could have a long old morning.
That was clumsy wording on my part. I did get sent a vote.

I wasn't happy with the amount of time I was given to vote on it, and wanted better consultation on it.
14  The Hotel End / Cobblers Corner / Re: Redevelopment Closer Than Ever? on: December 08, 2023, 09:25:46 am
Isn't that what you are doing?
I'm going to stand for the board. I can't do much more.
15  The Hotel End / Cobblers Corner / Re: Redevelopment Closer Than Ever? on: December 08, 2023, 09:25:01 am
What from here with an 11 hour time difference. Anyway as Derek has already pointed out my geographical location renders me unsuitable as a supporter so presumably Im not welcome on his board either?

What about other members who for a variety of personal reasons are not able to do this, what's the answer to them then, tough? Alternatively if you apply to become a member of the board why not act in the manner set out in the mission statement instead of rail roading the trust down a path to satisfy your own vendetta. The way the Trustology board members round on new board members like a pack of dogs if one of their number is threatened has already been put up on here. Who the fúck would want to involve themselves in that, laughably easy, you must have had a bang on the head.

This is the same old get out of jail free card that's continually played anytime one of the number is scrutinised, a load of abuse and a 'get yourself on the board and change it' cop out. Thanks for the invite but as a life member if I see the board acting in a manner that I believe is inappropriate I'll keep holding them to account for it as is my right. Straight out of the NTFC Trust Mission Statement We commit to supporting the aims and objectives of NTFC where, in the opinion of the board, these are not in direct conflict with the needs and best interests of supporters. Apparently this to be achieved by the supporters keeping their fùcking mouths shut and keeping their needs and interests to themselves unless they are prepared to sit on the board.
Well you lot carry on nailing the lid shut on the trust coffin, at least Kelvin Thomas and David Bower will be delighted, so not everyone loses. However, if the board were to honour their obligations  then perhaps less of our fùcking time would be taken up. Unbelievable.
I don't agree with Derek's assertion that you care any less because of your geographical location, and not anywhere have I indicated that I agree with that assessment. This wasn't a post solely aimed at you after all.

With regards to people not being able to stand for personal reasons, absolutely fine, don't. But come on, 700 people signed a petition. Can we really not find 10 people that have enough time on their hands to stand and change the direction? Honestly, it's a really weak argument. And of course it's not 'tough luck' if you can't stand, of course you're still entitled to criticise the Trust - I never said that you couldn't do that!

I agree that current board members/advisers should abide by that mission statement and act accordingly, and I don't dispute that some of them are falling short on that front.

The only point I'm trying to make - and I re-iterate this - is that NOTHING IS GOING TO CHANGE unless someone does something about it. It might not be you, but you can't all collectively look the other way, some people are going to have to put their head above the parapet.

That's if you all want it to change. Reading the posts over the last few pages, this is seemingly what you all want. If you don't want anything to change then crack on as is.
16  The Hotel End / Cobblers Corner / Re: Redevelopment Closer Than Ever? on: December 08, 2023, 09:10:09 am
So rather than attack the orchestrators of the mess, you choose to attack those that disagree with the self destruct button that's been pushed. Then you arrogantly issue an edict to join ranks with the creators of the mess. Hoping that the newcomers will clear up the mess. If that's your plan. You show us how it's done  Grin

See, I think there's a better way. We have a democratically appointed supporters representative on NTFC's board. He's not been co-opted on by like minded cronies. He's gone through a process that was appropriate, and challengeable. So how about people use him as the conduit for communication and questions. Rather than wasting a bunch of time trying to oust a pointless group that's had zero impact on anything for many years now. See, I reckon it would be a lot more powerful if I wrote to Tom with my concerns, then got an answer that was untrue, or uncooperative. Because, I can then post on here stating that the system that was actually set up by the club, is not fit for purpose. Of course there is a third way. The culprits do the decent thing and resign. Realising, as they should, that there is no avenue for an accord with the club whilst they are in situ. Imagine that. No mess, no argument. No more aired dirty laundry. And they can then sit back and say "I told you so" if the new board fails.

 
Tel - I think Tom Cliffe does a wonderful job, and I completely agree that fans should utilise him as a conduit to the club now he's in that role. I've done that myself. I think it's great that we have a supporters' elected representative and you won't find me disputing that.

I'm a tad miffed that Kelvin was so against it right from the off of his tenure, but in any case I'm glad he's changed his mind and come around to the same thinking.

Personally, I would just rather that the board place be awarded to a Supporters' Trust representative as it was originally, as I think that's the appropriate place for it in the long run and a well functioning Trust can also provide a good support network to the person doing the role in future if things become challenging. For me, we need to be working collectively to get the Supporters' Trust into a position where it is effective enough that the fanbase feel that's the appropriate place to have it. I completely accept we're not in that position at the moment, and while we don't have that, it's great that we still have the role as it currently is.

With regards to you calling my post arrogant - I think I'd take that argument from pretty much anyone else on this board other than yourself . Honestly, the cheek, do you look at your own posts? Grin

In terms of whether the board should resign or not. What's the point of making that argument? They're not going to - you know it, everyone knows it. So the only other course of outcome is what I outlined in my original post - people need to stand against them. I await an alternative argument of how to move the stalemate forward.

If you don't think the current board are going to change their ways, then of course it's going to be cleared up by newcomers to move it forward - again, what's the alternative?

And that's why I'm so frustrated with you all. You all know full well the current travel of direction is not going to change, you all moan about it constantly and don't think at all about what you could do to change the situation.
17  The Hotel End / Cobblers Corner / Re: Redevelopment Closer Than Ever? on: December 08, 2023, 08:54:25 am
With all due respect Melbourne, Terry, you have completely misunderstood the point I'm trying to make.

You both seem utterly incapable of separating the argument from the poster. At no point in my posts did I at any point defend the recent decisions of the Supporters' Trust, yet you've both elected to interpret my post as a defence of them and an attack against their critics. I'd appreciate your direction towards any points I've raised that have done this.

However, for the benefit of you both. I didn't agree with the decision for them to partner with Cilldara, and at the very least I would have liked a vote on it. I'd like them concentrate on some issues other than just the East Stand. In that respect, we're almost completely aligned, so I'm surprised at the hostility towards my post.

I've made these points before, but I don't feel the need to constantly bleat on about it as it achieves nothing.

I'll respond to your separate points in further posts.
18  The Hotel End / Cobblers Corner / Re: Redevelopment Closer Than Ever? on: December 08, 2023, 08:10:03 am
A moaner moaning about the moaners who are moaning about the moaners.
The reputation of Northamptionians as moaners is well deserved.  Grin

The 10 need to have a thick skin as those Trustites can be extremely moany and mean at times.
Moan, and do nothing  Grin
19  The Hotel End / Cobblers Corner / Re: Redevelopment Closer Than Ever? on: December 08, 2023, 08:01:47 am
In my own little way this is something I've been trying to express for some time.
Extraordinarily well put sir.
It's all part of the cycle.

I'll now be told that people can't commit the time to being on the board, despite the fact that 2,089 pages on this thread demonstrates we clearly all have ample time in our lives.

I'll also be told that it's too late to change it, despite the fact it's not too late to change it and that we'll need a Supporters' Trust again some time in the future even if not for now.

I'll be told what's the point, the Trust is irrelevant. Well we spend an incredible amount of time on here debating something that we're all told is irrelevant. Seems a bit of a waste of time for us all in that case doesn't it? Or perhaps it's just another lazy argument. Because for the majority of its existence the Trust HAS been relevent.

I'll be told that they couldn't possibly stand and work with the people on board currently because of the toxic culture there currently is there, despite the fact that if they got 10 members they would have the numerical majority and could effectively sideline them and bring in the positive culture that they would want.

They'll say, what's the point - the Trust has burned all bridges? Even if it has with the current owners, there will be loads of owners after the ones we have at the moment.

They will all claim to have such profound respect for the Supporters' Trust origins, its principles and the organisation that it COULD be, but will happily leave it in the hands of the people they consider dangerous to its very existence.

It's honestly unbelievable.
20  The Hotel End / Cobblers Corner / Re: Redevelopment Closer Than Ever? on: December 08, 2023, 07:13:15 am
So in a nutshell, we have a lot of people moaning about an organisation that they think could do something positive, but chooses not to.

All the while missing the simple fact that they could choose to do something positive about that outcome, but choose not to.

The solution to all this is so laughably easy, and I get mocked every time I make this argument, but the fact remains...

Ten people standing for the board in February could COMPLETELY change the direction and outlook of said organisation to become something more positive, but you collectively choose not to do that.

TEN people. There's about 20 of you on here who do virtually nothing else but moan about the Trust. But you choose to do nothing about it.

Hundreds of people signed a petition last year, but only three bothered to stand for the board. You all collectively chose to not do anything about it, and here we are 12 months later in exactly the same position. If this isn't the Trust you want, it's certainly the one you now deserve.

You all waste countless hours on here moaning - fill in a paper form, stand for the board and change it. It will take up less of your f***ing time.
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