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1  The Hotel End / Cobblers Corner / Re: NTFC Trust Presentation to WNC on: September 14, 2021, 16:22:15 pm
Iím not bored with constructive debate. What frustrates me is that I could spend hours listening to the Trusts interpretation of the situation and come away thinking they have a point. Half an hour later, I can spend time listening to the clubs interpretation of events and feel equally compelled to believe them. I know, because I have done this frequently. In fact, I think I am one of a very small minority who actually challenge all involved.

The truth about the Trust is simple. You canít fight on any level with an olive branch in one hand, and a baseball bat in the other. One minute it looks like serious attempts at constructive dialogue are on the table, only to find next minute it is soured by an underlying resentment, mistrust and  dislike for the current set up. That is absolutely how is comes across to most.

Then you have the approach from the club, which at best seems aloof, and at worst ambivalent and arrogant at times towards its support.

I have always been a huge advocate of openness. Both the Trust, council and the club have shown astonishing disregard in this area. I still firmly believe that all parties should submit to the arranging of an open public forum, with an independent individual or body asking the questions. The questions should be generated from supporters, who have no affiliation with any of the parties. The first part of the open debate should be pre submitted without any of the parties seeing them prior to the meeting. With the council, the Trust and the Club all in one place, it would offer those of us who remain undecided the chance to scrutinise all involved openly. Perhaps once the agreed amount of pre submitted questions are answered, those involved might be open to a 30-60 minute open Q&A sessionÖ..

Do you think this is something the Trust would be interested in doing?

This bang on and definitely what is needed, it would clear the air one way or another and at least we could find out what direction all parties wish to go in.
2  The Hotel End / Cobblers Corner / Re: Redevelopment Closer Than Ever? on: September 13, 2021, 13:56:49 pm
Hi Battery, so you agree, you want a better way, better owners.

Which solution would you like to see going forward?  What do you think to an infrastructure foundation, where instead of a basic £3m east stand finish, it has a bigger share of the land deal, and we look at all the options to improve Sixfields?   (genuine questions)

This is the beginning as far as the Trust is concerned, not the end.

One thing I would also say is, how many plans, either business or development, has our owners but forward?  How many times have they asked us supporters, what we want or need?  How many times has KT delivered on his promises?

This is where we differ, yes I agree KT hasn't put much forward, but then neither have the trust, it is just a wish list from the trust in reality without backing from the supporter base.
In my opinion the Trust should be talking to the various supporters groups whilst at the same time as talking to potential investors then when they have investors lined up with a valid, thought out and costed plan then go to the wider supporter base get their backing and then go to the council and push forward the proposal.
I don't think we will get anything other than a basic fit out from KT so as a Club we need to ensure we are all pulling together, unfortunately the way you constantly attack people who don't agree with your viewpoint is not helping us to move forward.
You can't just have half a dozen people at the trust pushing this agenda or it will never work, it needs to be a team effort.
3  The Hotel End / Cobblers Corner / Re: Redevelopment Closer Than Ever? on: September 13, 2021, 10:23:29 am
Because for some reason KT insisted on it as part of them taking control of the club for £1 and NBC writing off £10m

I wondered what reason might be ... forward 2 years from then and the hush hush, top secret £6.68m they got from rather dubious (IMHO) Chinese sources. Make me think, others just look the other way or focus on trashing genuine supporters who are concerned at such actions by the owners.

Random, you continually badmouth KT and the board, and I understand they are not the best owners a club could have. What would the alternative be, you have posted lots of different partial solutions but there is never anything concrete behind it. As much as I would like to see owners in who put the club first in everything what are the Trust and your plans for that, because until we have a proper alternative in place I think most people would rather stick with the devil we know.
4  The Hotel End / Cobblers Corner / Re: Letís have a little fun!! on: August 06, 2021, 14:39:25 pm
What I think will happen

Top scorer Kabamba - 15
Goals scored - 58
Goals conceded - 40
Promoted through play offs

What I wish would happen

Top scorer Hoskins - 25
Goals scored - 82
Goals conceded - 26
5  The Hotel End / Cobblers Corner / Re: New Trust statement on club finances on: July 27, 2021, 14:33:24 pm
Random & Manny we get it you don't trust him or believe anything he says. It doesn't alter the fact that he is the Chairman and they are the owners we have. It doesn't matter whether anyone trusts him or not at the end of the day we as fans need to work with him and the board to ensure we still have a club at the end of this. Like we have said many times if there is legitimate proof of wrong doing then get it to the proper authorities if not then the Trust has to come up with a way of working with him for the best outcome for the club. Yes there is nothing to stop him getting the deal he wants with the council and walking away leaving us to financially implode but unless fans and the Trust work closely with him then we won't be prepared when and if it does happen. If the Trust feels it cannot work with the board then we need another fans group that can, I am sure you are right like Cardoza they are here for the land deal, so what, we are all here for the Club which means we need to work with the board as closely as possible to get the best outcome for NTFC. If the trust and the fans work with them and get close they at least stand more chance of getting a better outcome for the Club.

We get that he isn't in it for his love of the Cobblers, but there is more chance of him walking away with a profit and us walking away with a club if some sort of agreement between KT and The Trust can be reached, remember the saying keep your friends close but your enemiies closer!
6  The Hotel End / Cobblers Corner / Re: New Trust statement on club finances on: July 23, 2021, 16:49:51 pm
Great post. 

Here's the funny thing about all of this.  I'm inclined to believe on balance the figures are probably correct.  I highly doubt the Trust Board would put out this information knowing the risk they put themselves under if it's false.

So why is the supporting evidence important?  As you rightly point out it provides context and supports their statement.  The seeming reluctance to provide supporting evidence does the reverse and makes people question why you won't.

I have no idea what "the evidence" is but without knowing what it is, where it came from and how it was obtained how much weight can you put on it?  Essentially we are being told "trust me".

You might also rightly ask, if they have evidence of the payments received why don't they have evidence of what was paid out if anything to regain the ownership or the costs involved?

I totally agree with you, we as a club, need an active and fully functioning trust to warn and prevent anything underhand happening, what we appear to have is a trust that if anything is more secretive than the club which does not sit right with me. If there is knowledge and proof of wrongdoing or concerns need to be raised then they are going about it in totally the wrong way. Most supporters will jump into action if they know something is wrong but unless we are given facts we cannot act.
7  The Hotel End / Cobblers Corner / Re: New Trust statement on club finances on: July 23, 2021, 15:45:27 pm
That would be a great post MC if it was aimed at KT

The Trust have tried to support and tread carefully and has gotten them nowhere.

You really expect them to publish evidence about payments etc?

In the meantime you ask and expect nothing of KT?  have you actually considered why the Trust have taken this action? 

Did you get KT approval for your reply above? What is he offering you for your soul??

Random this response is why people aren't believing the Trust, of course we want evidence. What you are doing with this is just putting peoples backs up.

We don't necessarily believe or trust KT, however, the Trust recently have done very little to earn our trust either. If they have evidence and they want the fans on board then they need to put proven information out in the public domain otherwise it can seem like sour grapes. If the Trust don't put the information out there and have it then they are no better than the owner, it almost seems like they want us to be in a position where we have to get the buckets out so they can say I told you so and gloat.

I don't know how you cannot see that people just want the full information it doesn't help when they ask for this that you accuse them of supporting KT.
8  The Hotel End / Cobblers Corner / Re: Redevelopment Closer Than Ever? on: July 22, 2021, 12:52:46 pm
Just wondered what people thought of the plans for the East stand

Do you think £3m will get us good value?  200 odd extra seats and upto 18 boxes (if we're lucky)

Would it be another missed to create something long lasting and fit for purpose / to be proud off?

Should we be trying to add conference facilities, restaurants, training / gym etc ?

Can we crowdfund / issue bonds to secure the future of out football club with something amazing? Northampton certainly needs it

At this point I think we should let the East Stand be built as KT has shown but we should be looking at crowdfunding for the South or North getting expansions and facilities on them like the New Hotel End are looking at.
The only way I think the East Stand gets built differently is if the Trust (or some new supporters organisation) patch up their differences with the owners and work together to develop something the Club and Town can be proud of.
9  The Hotel End / Cobblers Corner / Re: Cobblers players taking the knee on: July 13, 2021, 15:56:52 pm
For what its worth I agree with the players taking the knee, racism is still a big part of our society and if you don't stand up to it then it grows. In my opinion if you don't call someone out when they make racist comments then thats on you for not standing up for an equal society.
10  The Hotel End / Cobblers Corner / Re: Pre-Season Friendlies on: July 08, 2021, 14:58:06 pm
Haha never in doubt mate, Iíve tried to get tickets for tomorrow £1350 per seatÖÖÖ

I have seen they are up to £3400 each now Manny, I was hoping to be able to take the old man but outside my price range by quite a bit
11  The Hotel End / Cobblers Corner / Re: New Trust statement on club finances on: July 06, 2021, 15:09:38 pm
It needs to end, one way or another.
I donít think anyone on here has said they have broken the law TBF.

Fully agree with this, whether you believe KT or the Trust this bickering needs to stop, if the Trust aren't careful and don't play this right this could end up finishing them. I have been critical of the trusts actions, however, we need a Trust so this needs sorting out quickly.
12  The Hotel End / Cobblers Corner / Re: New Trust statement on club finances on: July 06, 2021, 13:28:05 pm
If the points made in the letter are true then that is pretty damning for the Trust if, as suggested they have been trying to get journalists to do an expose on the club without proof that goes way outside what I would expect from someone who has the best interests of the club at heart if they haven't got the proof!
I would also say that if what is written in the letter is false and the Trust haven't done this then our owners have serious questions to answer as this makes the trust out to be working to their own agenda and not in line with what it was set up for.
Can anyone from the Trust come out and state this is untrue?
13  The Hotel End / Cobblers Corner / Re: New Trust statement on club finances on: July 05, 2021, 15:41:50 pm
It was a good question.....but it appears nobody knows the answer!

There is a deal on the table, drawn up by the Club and presented to the Council. That deal involves completion of the East Stand to an acceptable but "financially prudent" standard. It also appears to have some executive boxes and some facilities within the finished stand. Also shown on the CGI is a car park on the site of the old Athletics stadium. Thats it!

Did the club ask fans what they would like to see? Did the Club ask the Trust what they would like to see? No.....this is the plan drawn up by KT and DB, and KT & DB alone. Its not acceptable is it? Even you acknowledge that......and because its not acceptable the Trust has withdrawn its support for it. What else could it do?

That doesn't mean this plan is dead and buried...its still on the table! We'd all like to see a lot more but we (fans, Trust or whoever) hold none of the cards.

When you say "clocks ticking"....what exactly are you proposing anyone does? This plan as it is either goes through or it doesn't....its the only plan.....the club isn't listening to suggestions!

Case in point...the New Hotel End plans..... great idea on paper, but how much funding was going to come from the club? I think we can all guess at the answer. If it was crowdfunded however it would be a different matter! Shouldn't this type of thing be embraced by the Club and its owners?

Personally at this point in time I would be happy after all these years of going nowhere and all the backbiting and finger pointing that is going on from all sides I would just be happy to have them finish the East to an acceptable but prudent level, build some carparking at the back of the East and leave a bit of the land for the club, then they can make all the money they want from the land on the proviso that they write off their loans to the club leaving us in a healthy place for either KT & DB to grow the club or they can sell it on to someone who wants and can afford to take it to the next level.

It has gone on too long and all the different factions are doing are arguing as to who is in the wrong, well as far as I can see there is wrong on all sides, that is The Trust, KT & DB and before them Cardoza and the Trust rep on the board. All the latest missive from the trust has done is make them look like they are spitting their dummy out because they can't get what they want.
14  The Hotel End / Cobblers Corner / Re: The Trust, is it lost? on: June 29, 2021, 10:04:25 am
I agree with some of this post and at the end of the day we are where we are. The issue I would have though is the seeming acceptance that we have to run at a loss of between 500k and £1m a year and are then grateful we have a Director covering those losses.
Yes, we all call for more money to be spent on the squad, a better pitch, new seats blah blah, all of which cost money, but perhaps this is where fans need to be more realistic too.

Some clubs make a small profit, some clubs make much bigger losses than we in general needs a "reset" to stop this from being the norm.

In what other business though would people not question the running of an operation which was turning in losses year in year out?

GPC really good post.

As for the question is the Trust lost - it appears from the outside that they are coming at KT & DB with something of an agenda from some parts of the board and want him out. Whether this is true or not I don't know but I do think they need a bit of a reset because after the staff letter I think a larger number of fans are going against them.

I do think we need a trust, I think every club does. However, that Trust needs to be able to work with the fan base and the clubs board and have a good a working relationship with the board as possible. Yes if they no of wrongdoing it must be highlighted to its members and also all other fans as early as possible. Unfortunately it is a very fine line a trust has to walk, as alienating the Club does not help them to be close enough to see if things are going wrong.

Correct me if I am wrong but the club was losing similar amounts when Cardoza was in charge so not much has changed there and maybe this is somewhere a trust working closely with the club can help, I have seen posts about a barrel of ale been sold and maybe this isn't too far from where we should be. I remember going into the Exeter Trust bar numerous times and that did very well and put money into the clubs coffers, things like that could reduce our losses as a club.

With KT and DB, yes I believe they are in it to make money from the land, why else would they be here. This is not necessarily a bad thing and as long as the trust is working closely with them then there will be more chances that some of the money from this land will filter its way to the club. I also agree they should have had the stand done as promised. It looks like maybe the New Hotel End is pushing them in this direction more now as it is since they came out with some ideas that we got the open day from the club.

So we as fans really need a club and a trust pulling in the same direction, if there are personality clashes then it would have to be the trust who would need to change those personalities as the club wont. The caveat on all of this being that if the trust are aware of wrongdoing they have to put it out there as fans need to know. The last thing we would want is another McRitchie or Cardoza situation.
15  The Hotel End / Cobblers Corner / Re: Redevelopment Closer Than Ever? on: June 28, 2021, 16:32:45 pm
I agree the mechanism is curious but also consider the staff have somewhat limited means to communicate effectively & whilst I'm sure KT knew and approved of the posting, which certainly suited his agenda but I also know first hand how some of the honest hardworking staff were sick of the innuendos and insults being posted with no right of reply.

To be honest I think the issues have so polarised the fan base that it can only cause damage - unfortunately we seem now to live in a society (Brexit being a perfect example) where a view is 100% right or 100% wrong - in truth we all know that is rarely the case and I think for the sake of our club we should all occasionally step in the other guys shoes. 

Great post CW, I think you are right and we all need to step back a bit and think about the pro's and cons of both sides.
16  The Hotel End / Cobblers Corner / Re: Summer 2021 Transfer Window on: June 28, 2021, 09:58:49 am
Bournemouth, Swansea, Brentford, Luton and even Fulham are teams we used to play regularly in the bottom two leagues and have now escaped and are regulars in the top two tiers.

of those Brentford, Fulham and Bournemouth have or had big money owners but i take your point about Swansea and Luton. Swansea have also got a fantastic ground, not sure if that was down to them or their council.
17  The Hotel End / Cobblers Corner / Re: Redevelopment Closer Than Ever? on: June 26, 2021, 17:44:53 pm
I think it has reached the stage now where all those critical of the club and KT and DB now need to put up or shut up. We have had months and months of sly digs and innuendo about wrong doing and illegality at the club but not one actual fact or truth put out there. If you have evidence either show us or stop posting negativity about the club we all care about
18  The Hotel End / Cobblers Corner / Re: Redevelopment Closer Than Ever? on: June 25, 2021, 16:49:43 pm
I think this continual digging by the trust at KT and DB needs to stop. If the Trust knows something then tell people I think ,most have had enough of the little hints and sly digs. If KT & DB have done something wrong and you have proof then show the fans. If they haven't and its just having a go because you don't like them then stop calling out anyone who questions you. I have no love of KT and DB but at the minute they are what we have and they may be loading debt on us but they seem to be putting a half decent squad and management team and if its to be believed they have a plan for the stadium, as do the New Hotel End guys. So what about the Trust tell us their plans.
19  The Hotel End / Cobblers Corner / Re: Redevelopment Closer Than Ever? on: June 25, 2021, 14:49:49 pm
You are right that the Council is the key player. But ultimately if the Council says no, delays a decision to the longer-term or exercises the break clause in the lease in 2024, there is no way that the owners can recover their investment. In that scenario they would have been better off putting their money in the Post Office, or even keeping it under the bed.

I question whether the owners have properly considered the risks to the club (as opposed to themselves) in the event of the 'doomsday scenario' of any land deal failing. They may cut their losses and sell to the highest of a few very low bidders. And as majority shareholders they would be legally entitled to asset strip anything left of any value in the club. Which means we would be gone, kaput.

I question the commercial acumen behind the current business model. How many people are prepared to risk several million pounds on the possibility of extracting a favourable deal from a Council that is extremely risk averse, and highly sceptical of anything to do with the Cobblers? To compound this, Kelvin has been quite critical of the former Council and they way it conducted itself (with some justification), but some of the very same people from the old Council (including Jonathan Nunn, its leader) remain in place in the successor body. Apart from a few people in this forum, who unquestionably believe everything he says, he has hardly led a charm offensive with people who really count in the process.

I think that is a very unfair comment about people on this forum, I would say nearly all of the fans on here who have been critical of the Trust have also been critical of KT and DB. In fact most of us understand that they are in it to make money and not for the love of the club. The continual knocking of people who question the Trusts role and accusing them of believing blindly in KT needs to stop. This is one of the reasons many are critical of the trust, we all want whats best for the Club that is not just the Domain of the Trust who seem to think they have a divine right to support from the fans without allowing themselves to be questioned!
20  The Hotel End / Cobblers Corner / Re: Alex Jones on: May 21, 2021, 09:59:25 am
There you go, Bayo as bulking up coach?

Like that idea and maybe we should get Carl Heggs back as a coach on aggression, as we need players to show some fight  Grin
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